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Nancy Pelosi: "I Will Be Speaker No Matter What Seth Moulton Says"; Death Toll In California Wildfires Rises To 58; President Trump Calls Mueller Investigation "Total Mess". Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired November 15, 2018 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:30:03] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, we want to give you an update on what's happening in the midterms, though they ended more than a week ago. Democrats have just flipped two more House seats Wednesday after two incumbent GOPers conceded. Eight races are still undecided this morning.
The Democrats currently have a 27-seat majority heading into January's session but there is a split among the winners. Sources tell CNN that 17 Democrats have signed a letter pledging not to support Nancy Pelosi's bid to become House speaker again.
Pelosi remains undaunted, saying she will be speaker no matter what our next guest says. Congressman Seth Moulton is leading the charge against the Democratic Party leader. He joins us now.
Good morning, Congressman.
REP. SETH MOULTON (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Good morning.
CAMEROTA: Here is her direct quote. This is what she said after leaving the caucus meeting yesterday.
"I will be Speaker of the House no matter what Seth Moulton says."
What say you, Seth Moulton?
MOULTON: This isn't just about me, this is about a broad coalition that's representing the will of the American people. And the American people sent a very strong message in the election last week that we want new approaches to politics and new leaders in Washington.
Just look at the incredible number of women, of veterans, of people of color who were elected. And if our party responds by reinstalling the same status quo leadership we've had since 2006, then we're failing the American people and we're letting down the Democratic Party.
CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, that's what you think the message is from the midterms, but the message has been interpreted lots of different ways by lots of different tea leaf readers.
Here's what one of your colleagues -- Democratic Congressman from California, Brad Sherman -- says about what the message is.
"If you win the World Series, you open the champagne and the manager doesn't get fired. And it's the same thing here."
I mean, he takes the message that Nancy Pelosi helped win.
MOULTON: The vast majority of Democrats are crying out for leadership across this country -- for new leadership. That's very clear everywhere you go. So this is the message that was sent by the midterms. They wouldn't have sent such an incredibly young, diverse, dynamic class of new leaders if that wasn't the case.
So I understand that there are a bunch of Washington people -- including a bunch of Washington lobbyists because she's been sending us their press releases all week -- that want Speaker Pelosi to return, but the American people want new leadership. The American people deserve new leadership.
Our party deserves leaders that people look to and says -- and say that's the future of our country. And frankly, that's what our Congress should deliver for the American people.
CAMEROTA: But, Congressman, listen, I'm sure you've it a million times, as have we. There's no one better, it's said, at herding congressional kittens into line than Nancy Pelosi. I understand you may want the novelty of someone newer, you may want someone fresher, but who's more effective than Nancy Pelosi?
MOULTON: This isn't about novelty, this is about true leadership and our caucus has incredible leaders, including amazing woman -- women.
You know, I am personally very close with Marcia Fudge, of Ohio. She's my mentor.
When I came to Congress, I looked around. I asked dozens of people who could I use as a mentor? Who is someone who is widely respected, who is wise, who was intelligent, who could give me advice? And person after person said Marcia Fudge.
She is the kind of new leader that we need in this party. She's incredible, she's amazing, she's from Ohio. She's in touch with Middle America. She understands what the American people want.
She's the next-generation leader that people will look to and say that's the future of our party, that's the future of our country. And that's exactly the kind of leader that I want to see as our next speaker.
CAMEROTA: Can Marcia Fudge raise $49.5 million for Democratic candidates as Nancy Pelosi did last year?
MOULTON: Look, I'm not a political pundit. My job is to listen to the American people and the American people say we want new leadership. The majority of Democrats across this country say we want new leadership.
We'll figure out how to raise the money.
What's important is that we have leadership that's inspiring, that builds the next generation, that brings our party together rather than divides us. Someone that can really unite us in this incredibly contentious time in American politics. Someone that people across this country can say I look to that leader and that's someone that I really respect.
And that's -- I think that's what you'll see in someone like Marcia Fudge or some of the other amazing new leaders that we have in our caucus. We just need to give them a chance to shine.
CAMEROTA: But are you saying that people don't respect Nancy Pelosi? What's your beef with Nancy Pelosi?
MOULTON: Look, this isn't just about Nancy Pelosi. I understand in her 30 years in Congress she has accomplished a lot for the Democratic Party and no one's taking that away from her.
But the clear call right now is for new leadership. That's what the Democratic people want. That's what the American people want and we shouldn't fail to answer that call.
You know, we elected such incredible new leaders. People like Max Rose, who won a tough race on Staten Island. He's a veteran with a Purple Heart.
[07:35:03] He's someone who made a promise to his constituents that if he went to Washington he would not vote for the status quo. He's going to uphold that promise and he's going to keep it to the American people -- to the constituents that he represents. That's the kind of leadership we need.
CAMEROTA: I don't have to tell you your history. You know that Nancy Pelosi has vanquished other challengers.
What makes you think that you have the votes to keep her from becoming House speaker since she says she will be House speaker?
MOULTON: Well, we know we have the votes. We know we have the votes right now. Obviously, we are trying to --
CAMEROTA: How many do you have?
MOULTON: We have 17 on the letter and then there's about another 10, as the press has documented, that have made a public commitment not to vote for her on the floor. So that's more than enough.
But we're trying to broaden this coalition even more and there are more people who come on every day. So we recognize that this is important to show the American people that we have a broad swath of the American -- of the Congress with us, and that's exactly what we're trying to do.
CAMEROTA: Very quickly, you know that there's this hashtag going around called #FiveWhiteGuys. It's going around Twitter and it says that you guys -- you're one of the white guys.
This is not a delicious burger joint. This is actually about people who -- Nancy Pelosi's supporters and your critics don't think should be the decision makers. And you're featured as one of the five white guys.
Should -- is -- should five white guys be the decision makers at this moment in time?
MOULTON: No, absolutely not, and that's why we have a broad coalition on this letter. People like Marcia Fudge, Kathleen Rice, Linda Sanchez. I mean, just look at the diversity among those three who have signed this letter calling for new leadership.
You know, it's time that we have more women in leadership. I think we should have women of color in leadership. We don't have any right now in our party.
So, look, this is about change and I understand that Pelosi can try to frame it in some sexist terms or whatever, but if you look at the broad coalition that's behind her, including the broad coalition of women who were just newly-elected and made a promise to vote for someone other than her, then you'll see this is about change for our entire party.
CAMEROTA: All right, Congressman Seth Moulton. Thank you for laying out your case on NEW DAY. We shall see what happens.
MOULTON: Thank you.
CAMEROTA: John --
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right.
A little bit of a political earthquake happening as we speak in the United Kingdom. Five leaders have stepped down just this morning. The pound is falling fast. The Brexit deal that is sparking this turmoil, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:41:05] BERMAN: The death toll in the California wildfires keeps rising and is now up to 58. Fifty-six have been killed in the Camp Fire in Northern California. Two deaths reported in the Woolsey Fire in Southern California where crews are finally getting the upper hand.
Our Scott McLean live in Paradise, California, one of the towns hardest hit. Scott, you know, the devastation behind you is stunning.
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It sure is, John.
If there is good news it's in Southern California. Those crews, as you mentioned, starting to get a handle on the Woolsey Fire. It's now more than 50 percent contained. The winds are also calming down.
The winds are also expected to be calmer here as well, though the damage has obviously already been done. The death toll here sits at 56. There are still 130 people missing. More than 10,000 structures have burned and most of those are homes.
The fire has chewed through 130,000 acres and it is just 35 percent contained. That is a number that hasn't changed since Tuesday.
What will change is the death toll. It is expected to rise as crews continue to search through the rubble for bodies. Our Dan Simon actually went out with one of those crews from the National Guard searching through heaps of twisted metal and piles of ash looking for people. They acknowledge that this process could take weeks and some people may never be found.
And because this fire burned so, so hot -- well, they've run into another problem -- listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE COLLINS, INVESTIGATORS SERGEANT, BUTTE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: We're trying to determine the difference between human remains and non-human remains because it would be extremely difficult in these fires to make that differentiation for those of us that are untrained.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCLEAN: And on Tuesday, lawyers for 22 people whose homes were destroyed in the Camp Fire filed a lawsuit against the local power company, Pacific Gas and Electric. The fire was started near transmission lines that their crews had been working on just 15 minutes earlier.
Though no official cause of this fire has been determined just yet the company says that if it is eventually found to be responsible -- well, it doesn't have enough insurance or even cash on hand to pay for the damages that could be around $7 billion. So, Alisyn, that company could be looking to the state for a bailout.
CAMEROTA: Oh my gosh. I mean, and what a grizzly task, as you lay it out, for all of those emergency responders ahead.
Thank you very much, Scott.
We do have some breaking news right now from London.
Five members of Prime Minister Theresa May's government have resigned, saying they cannot support the 500-page draft for Brexit that was officially submitted to the European Council today.
May is facing a grilling as she attempts to defend the plan before Parliament. She claims there are still difficult choices ahead.
That is a thought shared by the president of the European Parliament. He called the draft the first step on a long road.
BERMAN: Attorney Michael Avenatti strongly denies any wrongdoing after he was arrested on suspicion of domestic violence. Overnight, he wrote that he did not commit domestic violence. He says he never struck a woman in the face, right, and he looks forward to being exonerated.
It's unclear who made this complaint but it's not his estranged wife as some outlets initially reported.
But he was arrested. There are a lot of open questions here. We need to get much more information on this story.
CAMEROTA: All right.
Meanwhile, Fitchburg State University suspending one of its players indefinitely after a brutal sucker punch on an opposing player.
Take a look at this. This is Kewan Platt. He delivers -- let's see, where -- a forearm to the face. Oh, there you go. A forearm to the face of a Nichols College player.
The school says it's appalled by Platt's conduct here and a review is being conducted to determine if he will face further punishment.
BERMAN: That's awful.
All right, 2018 is officially toxic. The Oxford Dictionary has chosen toxic as the word of the year. They say its reach expanded in 2018 with people using it to describe a vast array of things from environmental poisons, to poisonous political discourse, to the #MeToo movement calling out toxic masculinity.
[07:45:11] Oxford says the sheer scope of the application made toxic the standout choice.
In my house, the word is Gucci. I know -- I know what your house is.
CAMEROTA: Gucci?
BERMAN: Yes.
CAMEROTA: My kids like Gucci also.
BERMAN: If you have an 11-year-old boy everything is Gucci.
CAMEROTA: OK. Well, as you know, my son's favorite word is moist, but that's another story. There's nothing he can't work that word into.
But, I feel like I am personally responsible for the popularity of toxic.
BERMAN: I think you are.
CAMEROTA: I say it all the time.
BERMAN: You are, absolutely. And they did give you credit.
CAMEROTA: OK, they should.
I have to split credit, I feel, with Britney Spears because you know that she had a song years ago, "Toxic," but she was just ahead of her time.
BERMAN: I absolutely didn't know that.
CAMEROTA: OK, I'm going to play it for you in this commercial break.
BERMAN: Very good.
So, President Trump, moments ago, issuing a new blistering attack on the special counsel Robert Mueller, pointing him out by name, talking about the inner workings of the special counsel's investigation.
Does he know more about the inner workings of that investigation because his guy, Matt Whitaker, is now the acting attorney general? We'll discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:50:19] BERMAN: All right, we have breaking news here.
And I want to stipulate we do not read every one of the president's tweets out loud. However, this morning he is writing about things that get to the breaking news of the day, which is his mood, and his fixations, and his preoccupations, including with the Mueller investigation. He did meet with his lawyers extensively Monday and Tuesday.
This is what the president just wrote.
"The inner workings of the Mueller investigations are a total mess. They have found no collusion and have gone absolutely nuts. They are screaming and shouting at people, horribly threatening them to come up with the answers they want. They are a disgrace to our Nation and don't care how many lives they ruin.
These are angry people, including the highly-conflicted Bob Mueller who worked for Obama for eight years." He didn't, by the way.
"They won't even look at all the bad acts and crimes on the other side. A total witch hunt like no other in American history."
Joining us now is Ken Starr. He was the independent counsel and led that investigation on President Bill Clinton, and is the author of the book "Contempt: A Memoir of the Clinton Investigation."
Also with us is CNN chief legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.
Ken, you -- you know, you didn't have it easy as independent counsel and you were attacked. However, when you --
KEN STARR, LED INDEPENDENT COUNSEL INVESTIGATION ON PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON, FORMER SOLICITOR GENERAL, AUTHOR, "CONTEMPT: A MEMOIR OF THE CLINTON INVESTIGATION": It's not a great job.
BERMAN: -- when you read that diatribe -- the vitriol from the president this morning -- how does it strike you?
STARR: Well, it's over the top. It is rhetorical hyperbole, shall we say.
No, Bob Mueller is an honorable guy. I've expressed concern about some of the people around Bob Mueller but I have confidence in his integrity and his professionalism. So I respectfully, but firmly, disagree with the tweet.
BERMAN: And is it the type of thing the president should be writing?
STARR: Oh, I don't think it's very presidential. And I think the president has been told countless times by those who support so many of his policies -- and I'm among that group -- please stop it. You're not doing yourself any good and you're certainly not helping the country.
But he listens to his own counsel and he's been a pretty successful guy.
BERMAN: All right.
I want to point one thing out, Jeffrey, about the language here. The very first sentence he says, "The inner workings of the Mueller investigation are a total mess."
I would note that over the last week he has his guy, acting attorney general Matt Whitaker, overseeing that investigation, so it's possible he knows more about the inner workings today than he did eight days ago.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Right. You know, Ken and I, I think, agree that the appointment of Matt Whitaker as attorney general is a constitutional -- is constitutional. We disagree with George Conway and Neal Katyal, who wrote that op-ed piece that got a lot of attention.
However, just because it was constitutional doesn't mean it was a good appointment.
And the fact that he has an ally there who has expressed so much contempt and anger at the Mueller investigation as attorney general, who could be a spy about what's going on in the Mueller investigation for the president raises, questions about how the president knows this -- knows this -- knows this about the inner workings -- or thinks he knows this about the inner workings of the Mueller investigation.
BERMAN: Ken, did I hear sounds of affirmation from you?
STARR: Oh, absolutely not. I think that there's no reason to connect dots and to come up with the answer. I respectfully disagree with Jeffrey, although we're dealing with -- and I understand that -- we're speculating.
But here's the thing. If the acting attorney general steps across the line and compromises the independence of the investigation and the integrity of the investigation -- and that would include this kind of information feeding to the president or the president's lawyers and so forth -- then we have a very serious problem. The acting attorney general is presumed to be doing the right thing until proven otherwise. I think we've got a certain presumption of regularity here and --
TOOBIN: Right. But, Ken we were agreeing -- I was so happy we were agreeing on something because we were agreeing that his appointment is constitutional.
STARR: Right, yes.
TOOBIN: But what about the conflict of interest? What about the fact that he is -- you know, that he is an outspoken critic --
STARR: Oh --
TOOBIN: -- of the Mueller investigation?
STARR: Oh --
TOOBIN: Isn't it inappropriate for him to be supervising the investigation?
STARR: Jeffrey, I do not disagree with respect to the wisdom of the appointment -- I really don't.
I don't know Mr. Whitaker. I have met him. He has a very good reputation. I know he is a great CNN commentator and said some pretty fiery things as a commentator.
But he's taken the oath of office. That changes the whole situation. And he does have a reputation as a law officer as a matter of integrity.
[07:55:05] That's when you say -- it's like Robert Kennedy becoming John Kennedy -- his brother's attorney general. Hey, I may be your brother but I've got a job to do. I have an oath of office to live up to.
And I think that's going to, as it were, trump everything and also make this a more toxic environment.
BERMAN: Well, we just don't know. The bottom line is --
STARR: Sure.
BERMAN: -- because we don't know, as you say. What we do know is he has the power to oversee it --
STARR: Right.
BERMAN: -- and the power to glean whatever knowledge he wants from the investigation. That's all I'm saying. More than that, we'll have to wait and see what more of the reporting is.
First of all, I just also want to point out -- and I said it as I was reading it -- Robert Mueller was a Bush appointee. He was appointed by George W. Bush -- nominated to lead the FBI then.
He did not work for President Obama for eight years. His term overlapped shortly. So the president's tweet is false there in addition to being angry.
Jeffrey, Robert Mueller protection. Now, Jeff Flake -- and I -- this is not a goating -- you would attack Jeff Flake.
TOOBIN: Yes, you're right.
BERMAN: But there is legislation in the Senate to protect the Mueller investigation.
Do you believe it's necessary? When you see statements like this from the president does it make it more necessary in your eyes?
TOOBIN: I think it is necessary legislation. But, Mitch McConnell has said it is not coming up and Mitch McConnell runs the Senate with an iron hand.
But, you know, I think the Mueller investigation is hanging by a thread and I think the appointment of Matt Whitaker as attorney general is the first salvo post-midterm election of the president against the Mueller investigation.
But we're just going to have to trust the good judgment of Matt Whitaker not to fire or interfere with the investigation. And I think this legislation thinks -- suggests we need more than that.
BERMAN: Ken, will you choose to agree one more time with Jeffrey Toobin?
STARR: I love Jeffrey, but no. I think the proposed legislation is unconstitutional and is a violation of separation of powers. That's one person's view but I'm not alone in that.
I do think that if there is interference with the Mueller investigation there is going to be hell to pay, including from Senate Judiciary chair, Charles Grassley. Chuck Grassley has made it very clear -- do not tread on Bob Mueller.
And so, the president would be foolhardy to in any way -- to in any way interfere with the investigation. Let it go forward and let it conclude. I think we're all ready for it to conclude, but let it go forward.
BERMAN: So, Tom Daschle and Bill Frist, who were in the Senate during your investigation, wrote a letter this week saying that they want the Mueller investigation -- the report to go public.
And they referred to yours, sir.
They said, "It was important for America to see the facts in the Starr report. No matter the conclusion, each person came to after reviewing the facts, they could be confident nothing was hidden from them."
Do you think Robert Mueller's work product and report should be made public?
STARR: Yes, I do.
The regulations, by the way, under which he's appointed, are pretty ambiguous on this. They talk about sort of a minimalist report, as I would say it, to Congress. But I think that in the discretion of the attorney general and his interactions is a matter of comity and common sense, that it should be made public.
BERMAN: This question of the attorney --
TOOBIN: It is -- Kumbaya --
BERMAN: Matt Whitaker is the --
TOOBIN: It's a Kumbaya moment between me and Ken. I completely agree that it should be made public. And I also agree that the regulations are written in a very ambiguous way and it is not at all clear that those -- that the report will be made public.
And it is also possible that the Trump administration or the White House may object to its disclosure on the grounds of executive privilege and other issues. So that is a coming fight we should be aware of.
BERMAN: And at least for now, acting attorney general Matt Whitaker, whom we've been discussing, is the guy who can decide whether it goes public.
Kenneth Starr, Jeffrey Toobin, great to have you with us. Thank you so much. Next time, don't agree so much.
Sources tell CNN President Trump is not happy and we just saw some of it right there with the vitriol in that statement he just made. Could more members of the administration be on the outs? Let's get the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's come down from this enormous sugar high and he's facing an entirely new reality.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: White House officials tell CNN yes, he's pissed at damn near everyone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just lost the midterms and it's clear he's feeling the heat here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not unusual for the first lady to be involved in personnel decisions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a lot of churning going on and at this White House nothing is behind closed doors.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're working 24/7. We're trying to meet a deadline that shouldn't be there. SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: President Trump and Gov. Scott lied. Their own Republican officials said there's no fraud.
RICK SANTORUM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: People lie, cheat, steal every day. If you don't think they do it during an election you're deluding yourself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.
BERMAN: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, November 15th, 8:00 here in the east.
Are you happy this morning?
CAMEROTA: Sure, I'm happy most mornings.
BERMAN: That's fantastic.
We're told the president is not. Let me read you a direct quote from one White House official. "He's pissed at damn near --
