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CONNECT THE WORLD
Trump Declines To Hear Khashoggi Murder Tape; Netanyahu Making Last- Ditch Effort To Save His Government; Grim Search For Fire Victims In California; Rain Forecast For Fire-Scorched California; Grieving Families Of Sunken Sub Crew Demand Answers; Celebrating The Past And Future Of Islamic Art. Aired 11-12p ET
Aired November 18, 2018 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[10:00:00] DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They give us a lot of jobs, they give us a lot of business, a lot of economic development.
They have been a truly spectacular ally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Strong words of support from the American president as the U.S. State Department says it is still too early
to say who was ultimately responsible for the death of the Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Tonight, how the Khashoggi affair is casting a shadow
over American policy across this region from rallying allies to confront Iran, to efforts to end the devastating war in Yemen and the fate of the
so-called the deal of the century meant to bring peace to the Holy Land. Exclusive insights coming up.
Hello everyone. Welcome to the show. This is CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson, live from Abu Dhabi where it is just after 7:00 in the
evening. Releasing just moments ago, the American president doubles, triple, quadrupling down on backing Saudi Arabia. But you got to ask, is
he sticking his head in the sand to do it? Certainly, that's what his critics are asking confirming that his own intelligence analysts have a
copy of the tape of the murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi. But get this, he thinks listening to it would be too much for him to stomach.
Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't want to hear the tape, no reason for me to hear the tape, but I've been --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't -- why don't you want to hear it, sir?
TRUMP: Because it's a suffering tape, it's a terrible tape. I've been fully briefed on it. There's no reason for me to hear it. In fact, I said
to the people should I, they said you shouldn't. There's no reason. I know exactly -- I know everything that went on the tape without having to -
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what happened?
TRUMP: It was very violent, very vicious, and terrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, reports now that the CIA thinks the kingdom's all-powerful Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman personally ordered the murder at the
Istanbul consulate, but President Trump says it is premature to say if the prince was responsible and says he'll be getting a full intelligence report
on Tuesday. Jomana Karadsheh is standing by for you now in Istanbul. Donald Trump may not be able to deal with listening to the -- to the tape
of the killing of Jamal Khashoggi but Turkish officials have. Let's be clear, there is nothing to suggest any smoking gun evidence of the Crown
Prince's involvement yet, correct?
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know Becky, as you know very well, we don't know anything for certain when it comes to what
evidence there is because all it has been for the most part has been this - - these leaks initially out of here in Turkey and then in the past few days as we've seen these leaks coming out of Washington D.C. Now, when it comes
to the CIA's assessment, according to some officials saying that they had reached this conclusion that the Crown Prince had ordered this killing,
this is based on several things but none of them seem to be that smoking gun that laced him directly.
But some in the intelligence community believe this is as close as it gets to smoking gun when they're talking about their own intercepts, their own
intelligence, their own conclusions that something like this couldn't have taken place without his knowledge especially that involved members of his
inner circle. And then you know, you other leaks in recent days as we saw that New York Times reports with that story about one of the members of
that hit squad give -- calling a superior following the killing and telling him "tell your boss the job is done." It's these sort of things that
they're trying to put together to reach such a conclusion. So it doesn't seem like there is a smoking gun.
When it -- when you look at Turkey and what they have been saying on the record, we heard President Erdogan saying that this operation was not a
rogue operation as Saudi Arabia has been claiming. He says that this was something that was ordered at the highest levels of the Saudi government
and then saying that it wouldn't have been King Salman. So a lot of people took this to mean that he's pointing the finger without naming the Crown
Prince. But certainly at this point, Becky, there doesn't seem to be that kind of airtight case linking the Crown Prince to the killing.
ANDERSON: Jomana is in Istanbul in Turkey. One thing that Donald Trump has been rather transparent about in all of this is the following. He says
what happened is bad but it can't undermine U.S.-Saudi relations because of one thing, cold hard cash. This is what he had to say yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know, we also have a great ally in Saudi Arabia. They give us a lot of jobs, they give us a lot of business, a lot of economic
development. They are -- they have been a truly spectacular ally in terms of jobs and economic development, and I also take that -- you know, I'm
president, I have to take a lot of things into consideration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[10:05:12] ANDERSON: Well John Defterios is onset with me here to break this all down. President Trump saying a lot of business is on the line.
Let's take a look at the numbers. According to a U.S. defense -- Department of Defense official, in 2017 the U.S. and Saudi Arabia signed a
Memorandum of Intent for Saudis purchase $110 billion worth of arms over a ten-year period. The arms sales include helicopters, tank, ships, weapons,
and training. Let's just be clear, what jobs are we talking about here?
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Well, this is something he swung all over the map with. But in the beginning of 2017
when he came into office he said this was worth 50,000 jobs, escalated to 100,000 jobs, to 500,000 jobs and now claims there's a million jobs.
There's nowhere near that but he's been actually swinging left and right when it comes to the Khashoggi murder. He started on the premise, Becky,
about the business importance of having Saudi Arabia as a strategically. There is $200 billion of commercial contracts that have potentially out
there beyond $110 billion they haven't materialized.
Then he got very angry about the murder and then swung back to business. And then we find out in the last hour that he revealed he didn't want to
see the tape. So it's almost he's going out of his way to protect Saudi Arabia on three priorities. I would say business, yes, he sees Saudi
Arabia as a key ally in serving as the bulwark against Iran, of course, and we can't overlook the fact that his son-in-law has a relationship with
Mohammed bin Salman that being Jared Kushner.
I think the danger for the President though is that he overrides or is seen as overriding the CIA assessment. It was an initial assessment. They said
they have no smoking gun. They can't speak with high confidence because it's not thorough enough. Then we had the statement coming from the State
Department saying it's premature to act. We see some selling in the Saudi stock market again, by the way, because of this uncertainty the stock
market was down two percent, just reintroduces where we're going from here and does it reach at the top with Mohammed bin Salman.
ANDERSON: Let's be absolutely clear. I mean, the U.S. has put Saudi under the Trump administration back front and center in its file for this region
has erstwhile allies, were a little bit out in the cold under the Obama administration. We knew two years ago, the U.S. administration under
Donald Trump said we will be re-engaging with our old allies reared being one of those. In the background of all of this of course, and one of the
reasons for that is oil. Last week, Saudi Arabia's Energy Minister said the kingdom would cut its all production and attempt on their part to
bolster oil prices. Those efforts were completely undercut by a single tweet by Trump. He writes, hopefully, Saudi Arabia and OPEC will not be
cutting oil production. All prices should be much lower based on supply. And after that, end of the Twitter-sphere what happened?
DEFTERIOS: It's complicated. Yes, I was going to say, you know, if you go back to April, President Trump has kept the pressure on OPEC to say look if
I'm going to cut back because of the sanctions on Iran you better supply the oil. So this is how the Saudis see it and we had all follow here at
the ADIPEC Abu Dhabi Oil Summit along with the Secretary General of OPEC. Who has both spoke to CNN and clarified their position. They added better
than a million barrels a day between June and October. They expected as Trump had promised to take Iranian exports down to zero. As you know, this
didn't happen. He gave aide exemptions which means that the Iranian exports hover about 1.4, 1.5 million barrels a day.
The President wants lower oil prices because he thinks this extends the economic cycle. But the position of Saudi Arabia and that of OPEC is
having oil between 60 to 70 dollars a barrel is actually good for stability, good for U.S. jobs in the energy sector by the way, where
there's 10 million. So the latest from Saudi Arabia is they're going to go ahead and cut production, Becky, because they're worried about prices
collapsing at this stage.
ANDERSON: John, always a pleasure. Thank you, sir. Saudi Arabia could be coming under even more pressure from Washington of course. Thursday the
Trump administration imposed sanctions against 17 Saudi officials, a group of both Democrat and Republican that Senators say that is not enough. The
group which includes one of Trumps chums, Lindsey Graham, has proposed legislation that would suspend arm sales to Saudi Arabia amongst other
things. And we will be doing more on this.
In just minutes from now, we'll connect you to Iran handling -- on the manhandling the Iran file for Trump really helping shape how Washington
thinks talks act on all of this. Brian Hook, the U.S. Special Representative to Iran and special adviser to America's top diplomat, right
here on CONNECT THE WORLD we'll ask him about leaving the nuclear deal, pushing Iranians not the regime with sanctions, fixing Yemen and the
situation with Saudi. You don't want to miss that.
All right, let's connect to all of this to Israel now and last-ditch efforts to keep the countries governing coalition together. You know, the
Prime Minister there Benjamin Netanyahu is a big supporter of U.S. President Donald Trump and his regional policies. He's also been working
to build ties with Arab states like Saudi Arabia all in an effort to boost the alliance against Iran. But now Mr. Netanyahu himself is under pressure
to call a snap election after a key resignation left his government in a precarious state. He set to meet with his finance minister in the coming
hours in an attempt to keep the coalition alive.
Oren Liebermann joining me now from Jerusalem with the very latest. Now, how likely is it that we will see snap elections in Israel, and if so, who
is most probably the front-runner if Netanyahu was to fail in securing the votes he needed?
[10:11:00] OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The snap elections at this point that is early elections which would likely take place between March
and May are very likely but not certain yet. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is still working to stabilize his coalition. He has is meeting
with the finance minister in about 90 minutes and then we'll see what comes out of that. It has been the most turbulent week politically of Benjamin
Netanyahu's most recent term which started in early 2015.
You mentioned his defense minister resigned, then his Education Minister demanded the defense portfolio are said I'm out which would take down his
government, and then two more key ministers said look, it's time for early elections. All of that means Netanyahu is trying to stabilize his own
coalition or it's off to elections.
Netanyahu according to all of the polling Becky is still as strong as he was over the past few years. His Likud Party is expected to either hold on
to its seats or even grow despite Netanyahu himself facing criminal investigations. The question then is does he have the ability to form a
coalition. If there's a challenge there, if there's a difficulty there, then his main opponent, his main challenger would be Yair Lapid from the
center-left Yesh Atid party.
That, however, is a bit of a long shot because Atid -- I'm sorry -- because Yair Lapid trails Netanyahu in polls by more than ten seats as it has been
for so long here for nearly a decade, Becky. Netanyahu is the name in Israeli politics and it'll be him calling the shots if it goes to
ANDERSON: Well, you name check these. He's been dealing Netanyahu with some corruption allegations but has any of that played into this decision
by his rivals?
LIEBERMANN: Well, his opponents in the opposition here have said look, based on the allegations against him, based on what we know so far, and
this is four major investigations against them, in two of which police have already said they have enough to indict the Prime Minister on charges of
bribery, fraud, and breach of trust. The opposition has said look, it's time for you to step down but he has plainly rebuffed those calls with good
reason based on the polling. The polls have shown his voter base coming closer to him and his popularity growing as the investigations continues.
So Netanyahu has always proclaimed his innocence since the very beginning. And even if there is some concern in his mind that these allegations these
investigations may go somewhere, he's certainly not showing it. And on top of that, Becky, the investigations are moving very slowly, very
methodically, very deliberately, and Netanyahu is not in any move to make a decision based on the investigations. If he goes to elections, it's about
his own coalition crisis.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. All right, well, the implications of any early election and a possible change in the makeup of that Israeli government
will be significant given that one of the things on the American president's foreign policy plate, of course, is this promised Jared Kushner
peace plan. That is something that we will be discussing with our guests in the hours to come. Lots on the American presence foreign policy plate,
but this weekend he was -- well, he was consumed with a tragedy closer to home in California, the destruction is staggering.
At least 76 people have been killed in more than 1,300 are unaccounted for in modesty or have been the deadliest wildfires in that state's history as
neighbors friends and relatives face a dreadful wait. National Guard troops coroner's even anthropologists are sifting through charred homes and
mangled cars for human remains. U.S. President told some of the fire- ravaged areas on Saturday with state officials. He pledged federal support for first responders in their search and cleanup but he denied that climate
change played any part in the intense fires instead blaming forests mismanagement for the destruction.
A short while ago Pope Francis offered prayers for those who have lost everything in those wildfires years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[10:15:07] POPE FRANCIS, LEADER, ROMAN CATHOLIC (through translator): A special prayer goes to those affected by the fires that are scourging
California. And now also to the victims of freezing weather on the coast of the United States. May the Lord welcome the dead into his peace,
comfort the family members, and support those who commit themselves to rescue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: The Pope. Still to come tonight, after a deadly flare-up of violence in Gaza, are the last hopes of what Donald Trump calls the deal of
the century crumbling? I take a look with a man who helped reach an historic breakthrough. That after this.
ANDERSON: Well, many of you will remember this. The historic moment the Oslo Peace Accords officially came into being marking the first ever peace
agreement between Israel and the Palestinians. As we know, the accords never actually resulted in peace for the region nor did they resolve the
core issue, the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. And a lot of people will tell you that a lot of the incredibly complex and difficult
problems we've seen spinning out of this part of the world from the Arab oil embargo to planes being shot out of skies stem from that conflict.
Within the last week alone, we've seen the worst 24 hours of fighting since the 2014 war. Leading to drama in Israeli politics over the last few days
under the shadow of what feels like endless and unsolvable deadly violence. So let's talk peacemaking in the region with none other than Terje Rod-
Larsen. He is the President of the International Peace Institute and a longtime player in the Norwegian government. He's also importantly held
some high profile jobs at the U.N. and was one of the architects of the Oslo Peace Accords.
You probably have forgotten more about peacemaking than most of us will ever know. We welcome you to the show and to here in the UAE. A timely
conversation with you, Sir, given what has been this week's developments. Where is this deal of the century? Are we ever going to see it at this
[10:20:05] TERJE ROD-LARSEN, PRESIDENT, INTERNATIONAL PEACE INSTITUTE: Let me first say that I think we now are at the crossroads in the search for
peace in the Middle East because since the Oslo Accords 25 years ago that was established an idea, an ideology if you will, that is the two-state
solution. And it was established an institution called the Palestinian Authority and a peace process was established.
The peaceful process has collapsed, the Palestinian Authority is standing as a kind of quasi-state at least in the West Bank, and the idea of the
two-state solution that's been basically a global consensus around until recently. And this is where we are at the crossroads because now it must
broader (INAUDIBLE) is opening up whereby there is one position saying stick with the Palestinian Authority, there will be no state. It will be a
semi-autonomous entity, a territorial entity which will basically continue what was achieved in Oslo.
And then the second option is to go back to the idea of the two-state solution whereby Jerusalem is Jerusalem as the capital of Palestinian
state, West Jerusalem of Israel.
ANDERSON: Is that even realistic?
ROD-LARSEN: It will come to in a minute, in a few seconds, but now there is a third option which is opening up which was part of the debate before
Oslow that is the one-state solution where there are kind of two nations Palestinian nation and an Israeli nation within one state. And
paradoxically the Israeli right-wing is supporting this idea and the Palestinian and the internationally left-wing is supporting this idea but
it's not very realistic.
ANDERSON: Let me put this to you then. We haven't seen the details of any deal that has been as we are being told overseen by Jared Kushner, the U.S.
President's son-in-law and (INAUDIBLE) involved in this. I know that you've had discussions with some of the stakeholders involved. I don't
know whether you have or would be prepared for revealing the details of this deal, but given the possibility of snap elections now, how might the
presentation, the presenting of this deal now be affected? You've missed made a very valid point that should this snap election result in a
government which is further right-wing. You think that sort of opens the possibility to two different solutions than that which have been discussed
ROD-LARSEN: As far as I understand, the plan of President Trump it's not yet finished. I think internally it's close to being finished but it's
been shared with very few people, very, very few I believe and certainly not with me so I don't know the contours of it. But what I do know is that
the dilemmas which I just addressed, the one-state solution the two-state solution was simply discontinuing. The status quo will be something which
they will have to address head-on.
And then if there are snap elections in Israel, Washington will be faced with a dilemma. Should I postpone the plan until after the elections or
should I put it on the table respecting the timetable have indicated? And in that case, it would be a major issue in the election campaign. And
there are strong arguments that that might actually be a very wise thing to do because then all the parties in Israel will have to take a stand on the
issues or come up with alternatives. So I think -- I think that will re- enliven on the discussions about the basic solutions for the Israeli- Palestinian conflict.
ANDERSON: So do you feel -- do you feel a sense of optimism at this point? Because you know, you will be the first to admit that there is no process
in the Middle East peace process and it hasn't been for years. Do you believe there is a possibility at this point?
ROD-LARSEN: Maybe you can detect a little smile on my face right now because yes I see no reason for optimism right now because the process has
been completely stalled. The two leaders the Israeli Prime Minister, the Palestinian President haven't been speaking together or meeting together
for years, and the Palestinian leadership is now refusing Palestinian representatives to meet with the U.S. administration, so actually at the
current moment, the situation is worse than has been in a very, very long time.
But what is a reality in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is that intellectually it's not very difficult to understand what the possible
solutions are. In contradiction to many of the other conflicts in the region and elsewhere and the world where it's incredibly complicated to
address the issues, this is easy. It's either continue to status quo, the one-state solution or the two states solution.
[10:25:20] ANDERSON: It is fascinating you say this is -- you know, when you consider it within the context of Syria, of Libya, of Yemen, and those
are just the sort of roiling regional conflicts that we have here that this ought to be, it certainly looks like a much easier conflict to address.
Let me just put one thing to you Terje, you are as far as I understand it, the only man ever to have babysat both Benjamin Netanyahu and Yasser
Arafat. And you also know Mahmoud Abbas personally.
Let's talk about him and Benjamin Netanyahu for a second. From what you know of these men, can they ever get over the hurdles and actually work
towards peace? I know you've said you're not massively optimistic, but should -- for the time being these are the two characters we have.
ROD-LARSEN: Yes, I know them very well, both of them. And I've been working in my U.N. capacity for many, many years and both my Norwegian
capacity and my U.N. capacity for many, many years with them. And so I think, I mean, Bibi Netanyahu and I'm with my wife, she's a Norwegian
diplomat organized the first meeting between Arafat and Bibi Netanyahu and had been following them for many, many years. And Bibi Netanyahu has a
coalition (INAUDIBLE) which reins in what is possible to do.
I don't know what his intentions are. I mean, that's his privilege to know, but what I do know is that our political ramifications given the
political divides and agnostic on in his cabinet which makes it very difficult for him to move forward. You know, I mean, I then assume that
the intentions are to find the solution. (INAUDIBLE) on his part is in a very difficult situation as well because he has been criticized known for
manym, many years that the parties are not at the table, nothing is happening, it's only status quo so I think he's forced into a corner where
he has to be very principled on the historic demands of the Palestinian people.
So it was very difficult for him particularly when he is looking -- he's in his late 80s and looking at his legacy. So he might be think I want to go
down principled standing on the basic principles from the PLO and Fatah. So all this makes it not very likely that we in the short run will get any
painful compromises from any side so we are back to the optimism issue.
ANDERSON: It's -- I'm going to get you to stay with me because I want you to talk Yemen with me a little bit later in the show. I wonder whether
that you will have any more of a sense of optimism about a conflict which we do know is incredibly complicated. That is later this hour. So for the
time being, thank you. Live from Abu Dhabi, you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD, I'm Becky Anderson. Coming up, I speak to the envoy Donald Trump is
charged with pressure -- putting pressure on Iran about sanctions, the regional ripple effect the Khashoggi murder and the war in Yemen. First up
though, news about a missing Argentine submarine as families of the crew grieving again and demanding answers. That after this.
[10:32:42] ANDERSON: All rights, more now on one of our top stories. Israel's governing coalition in crisis. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
is resisting mounting calls for snap elections. Following a turbulent week that saw a controversial Gaza cease-fire deal and a key cabinet
One more departure would collapse his government. He is set to meet with his finance minister in a last-ditch effort to fend off early elections.
Well, a search continues for hundreds still missing, California's most destructive fire ever. And there is a lot of confusion. So many residents
scattered if they were able to escape the mountain town of Paradise with nearly 10,000 homes destroyed.
The work of the military, volunteers, and coroners is painstaking as they search for human remains in what's left of homes and vehicles. But nature
may soon give an assist to those weary firefighters in Northern California. Rain, finally in the forecast. Meteorologist Ivan Cabrera joins us now
with the details. Ivan, what have you got?
IVAN CABRERA, CNN INTERNATIONAL WEATHER ANCHOR: Becky, just getting word from Cal Fire. Actually, the containment is up to 60 percent. So, that
rain that you mentioned, is not coming in until next week. But at least, conditions, I think will begin to improve before that happens.
Today, still gusty winds, but the containment is now up to 60 percent. Basically, that means we've already burnt 60,500 hectares and that will
continue to climb a bit despite the fact that the containment goes up. Those numbers kind of stay steady, and we'll begin to see that an
improvement as we head into the next few days.
Weather conditions today are not going to be good, though. We'll going to still have dry humidity, we're going to have very low humidity, 10 to 20
We're also going to have some very gusty winds. We're talking 50 to 80 kilometer per hour winds that's certainly a potentials. You see all the
red flag warnings there across the entire area. And, of course, the other story we've been covering with the fires is been the smog and all that
smoke that has just been stagnating here.
In fact, many cities in California are now the most polluted cities in the entire world. We have numbers here that we haven't seen in quite some
time. Very unhealthy, and the numbers go up, well into the 200. On our scale that goes up to 500.
That's pretty significant there from California. The strong winds have been spreading the fire obviously over the last several weeks. We expect
the rainfall to come in until Wednesday.
We'll going to need 13 millimeters of rainfall to stop the spread of the fires, we going to need an additional 50 millimeters to actually get them
under control as far as weather conditions. I think we're going to do much better than 50 millimeters.
Look what happens here, by at time we get until Wednesday and into Friday. We have two weather systems next week, both of which, I think, will produce
very heavy rainfall.
Now, that's great, right? But here is the problem, Becky. With the heavy rainfall, that's going to be falling on basically cement. That is what's
left of the hillsides here, many areas in California. And so, that water is not going to be absorbed by the vegetation. It's going to go run down
right to the valleys, and that's going to pick up a lot of mud.
And so, the mudflow risk is going to be a big threat. I think, beginning on Wednesday, that's when we're expecting the rain. The next few days,
though, still some gusty winds and still very dry conditions. But an improvement in the weather, but as I mentioned, the other side of the coin
is we're going to have to deal with that mudslide threat that is very common in California after the fires.
[10:35:53] ANDERSON: Got it, Ivan. All right. Thank you for that.
CABRERA: You're welcome.
ANDERSON: Well, exactly one year and a day after it vanished. The missing Argentine submarine has been found at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.
Family members angry at the government says the wreckage and the remains of their loved ones will not be recovered. Cyril Vanier, reports.
CYRIL VANIER, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Embracing loved ones, grieving relatives, comfort each other while reliving a tragedy. After a year of
waiting, they're now getting some answers in the disappearance of their family members, but not the ones they were hoping to hear.
JUAN ARAMAYO, FATHER OF MISSING SUBMARINE CREW MEMBER (through translator): We thought they had other information. We had the illusion they would find
VANIER: The U.S. search team has found the wreckage of an Argentine submarine that went missing last November with 44 crew members onboard. It
was discovered on the ocean floor of the South Atlantic. More than 870 meters below the water's surface.
The navy says the sub suffered an implosion and none of the crew members could have survived. Now, that the wreckage has finally been found, the
Argentine government says they can't afford to bring it home.
OSCAR AGUAD, DEFENSE MINISTER OF ARGENTINA (through translator): We did not even have means to go down to the depths of the sea. We also do not
have equipment to extract the ship of these characteristics.
VANIER: For those who have been waiting to locate their loved ones, this is simply unacceptable.
CECILIA KAUFMANN, PARTNER OF MISSING SUBMARINE CREW MEMBER (through translator): They have located it. Now, they need to deliver our
relatives to us.
YOLANDA MENDIOLA, MOTHER OF MISSING SUBMARINE CREW MEMBER (through translator): If we don't see it, we can't have closure. So we're going to
demand that the president find a way to get the remains out because it's possible to do.
VANIER: It was an American company hired by Argentina that finally found the vessel after what had been a massive search. Several countries had
helped look for the submarine after its disappearance, but most gave up before the end of 2017.
Argentina's navy stopped rescue operations only two weeks after the sub went missing. One of the reasons families have criticized their handling
of the case. Relatives also faulted the navy for waiting several days after the disappearance to acknowledge a key detail.
In his last communication, the captain had reported a short circuit, returning from a routine mission off Argentina's coast. The submarine's
maintenance was also called into question. Although refitted five years before the disaster, the diesel vessel was nearly 40 years old.
On Saturday, families of the crew members demonstrated outside the naval base from where the submarine sailed last year. Demanding the return of
their loved ones and more accountability in this tragedy.
MARCELA MOYANO, RELATIVE OF MISSING SUBMARINE CREW MEMBER (through translator): Up to now, I kept hoping. It's hard for me to let it go.
Now, I can only keep fighting and asking the judge that she please work so that they return the submarine.
ANDERSON: You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD live from Abu Dhabi. You know an old saying in this part of the world, "The enemy of your enemy is your
friend." But in Saudi Arabia, Donald Trump may have a very uncomfortable friend indeed. Can he control either friend or foe on battlefield, Yemen,
and find the peace he apparently wants? We are back to the legendary peacemaker, Terje Rod-Larsen, about that. Up next.
[10:41:33] ANDERSON: The murder of Jamal Khashoggi in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul and the political fallout from that has dominated the news
cycle for a number of weeks now. And it's put pressure on the Trump administration and its ties with the young Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin
But perhaps more importantly, it has shifted attention ever so slightly away from Washington's most important concern in this part of the world,
that being Iran.
Now, earlier this month, the Trump administration re-imposed sanctions on Iran. Limiting oil supplies but giving exemptions to eight countries. On
the last couple of hours, Mr. Trump has just spoken to Fox News, and this is what he had to say on Yemen. A key conflict where both Saudi Arabia and
Iran have interests.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I want to see Yemen end. But it takes two to tango, Iran has to end it also. And Iran is a different country than it was when I took over,
it's far weakened because of what I did with the Iran so-called Iran deal - - Iran nuclear deal, which was one of the great rip-offs of, of all time. But I want Saudi to stop, but I want Iran to stop also.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: All right. Well, I want to bring back in Terje Rod-Larsen, and we'd hope to also speak to Brian Hook, President Trump's Iran's czar. He
was going to join us but it's a helicopter delayed. The reality of a busy policymaker, I'm afraid who's going to join us. And we will have him on,
of course, at some time soon.
With Terje is one of the architects of the Oslo peace accords, of course, a man who knows all about the difficulties of making peace. And we're going
to concentrate on Yemen. But when we talk about Yemen, you have to talk about Saudi Arabia because that is leading coalition in the conflict there
against the Houthis, which reveals the fact that we must talk about Washington because its presence with its allies in this region so far as
policy is concerned is important. And that takes us, of course, to a discussion about Iran.
Iran has been a destabilizing force in this region. Most people aside from the government in Iran would agree with that in this region, certainly.
And the U.S. taking a position against Iran with the backing of Riyadh. And that was an important Alliance. Iran in both of those capitals
crosshairs since Donald Trump took over.
The killing of Jamal Khashoggi and reports, at least, that the CIA may have intelligence that the crown prince was involved in that, have had a
significant impact haven't they on the U.S.-Saudi relations. I wonder how you think that impact and its consequences might play out in Yemen.
ROD-LARSEN: Yes, I think, first that's very important to understand the backdrop for the politics which is playing out in the region now. For
decades, this was the Arab-Israeli conflict, which was the center of gravity in the region.
This has shifted radically and tectonically because now it is Iran and its allies versus Saudi Arabia and its allies, which is the main fault line in
the region. And everything which is happening in the region has to be understood in that context.
So, on the side, on the Sunni side, the politically and religiously speaking, the perception is that Iran has a quest for hegemony and
dominance in the region. And that the nuclear capacity is a tool in that regard. But it's not the only tool, it is undermining activities in other
countries in the region, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, UAE, you name it.
But beyond, also in Europe, and recently, I mean plots for terrorist attacks both in France and in Denmark has been discovered. So this is the
other dimension besides the nuclear dimension.
And to go into the Khashoggi affair, I mean, there is a criminal investigation going on as a criminal issue, but it's more. It's become a
political issue. Which the parties are now playing and exploiting to the hilt.
And so, if we go to Yemen, President Trump just said, as we saw, it just take two to tango. But actually, it has to be many who has to tango in
order to resolve that conflict. Because it's on not only the legitimate government and the Houthi militias and the Houthi political party, which is
-- has to tango here. Iran is an incredibly important player here.
And for the upcoming talks, which are going to take place hopefully in Stockholm, And the Iranians will have a blocking opportunity if they want
to, and that might be temptation here precisely because of the new sanctions, which is imposed by the U.S.
[10:46:45] ANDERSON: Let's -- yes. No, it's fascinating. Yes.
ROD-LARSEN: So, the bargaining table is not a Yemeni bargaining table, it is a regional bargaining table.
ANDERSON: Yes, somebody recently described the Yemen conflict in and of itself is like sort of watching a three-dimensional chess game going on. I
think this region feels like it's got many more dimensions than just three at present.
Well, let's talk about the talks which are promised or hoped for by the end of the month, the Yemen talks in Sweden. No date as of yet, as I
understand that. But the back end of this month is the hope.
What do our expectations might be for those talks, and this is something that is -- you know, at your call, you do this peace, peacemaking.
But before that, I want to talk about the possibility of a new U.N. resolution. I know this -- for some of our viewers may feel as if we
getting caught in the weeds here. But this is really, really, crucial stuff.
At the U.N. Security Council resolution, a new one to be tabled by the United Kingdom sometime this week it seems to fear Saudi resistance
reportedly. Because Riyadh thinks Resolution 2216 from several years ago still holds. And I want our viewers just have a look at that.
Resolution 2216, call for "all parties in the embattled country, in particular, the Houthis, immediately and unconditionally end violence."
And to refrain from acts that threaten the political transition, a political transition now more than three years in the making.
And we have to ask ourselves what hope of a new resolution at this point progressing if indeed the U.K. were looking to sort of conflate the Houthis
and the Saudis to sort of erstwhile competitors in the landscape, your thoughts.
ROD-LARSEN: Security Council resolutions are important because the Security Council resolutions and the decision of the council gives
legitimacy to conflict resolution between armed parties.
But, you also need to look at the implementation and to the hard bargaining at the negotiating table. So, resolutions are not a substitute for
negotiations, they are complementary to bargaining at the bargaining table.
But what makes it so much -- so complicated in Yemen, is that Yemen is a proxy war. And there are so many parties who has blocking capabilities for
what is going on. So, only if you have two to tango there is not enough. Because the ramifications there with other parties have that de facto veto
on moving forward.
And this is why it's so incredibly important to have the dialogue with all parties involved. And there are some countries in the region like Kuwait
and Oman, for instance, who has a relationship with both their Arab colleagues and credibility with our Arab colleagues.
But also, as a relationship with the Iranians. And you can trip in Iraq, as well here with this new leadership. So, I think we need a constructive
voice from these regional parties, as well, in order to address the issues.
But the perception -- the perception throughout the Arab world is that Iran has a quest for hegemony and dominance in the region, and all their
activities in these countries subversive activities, kind of creates an attitude where Iran has to be stopped. And one of the battling fields is
Yemen. And this is -- this is the core issue, and that issue has to be -- has to be -- has to be addressed.
[10:50:41] ANDERSON: We will -- we will manage our expectations for what can be achieved in Sweden back end of this month if it comes. And we
should also discuss another point, what happens the day after anything, of course, is achieved in Sweden, and who will be shouldering the burden of
creating a better space for the millions who have been afflicted and affected by that war in Yemen, Terje? Thank you.
ROD-LARSEN: You know this time, I mean, there are actually some acts which gives optimism in the region. And very recently, the president of Iraq met
with the Emir of Kuwait in Kuwait City. I mean, this was a country, Iraq, under Saddam Hussein who invaded Kuwait, kill the brother of the Emir in
front of the palace. And what these two leaders now is showing compassion, forgiveness, and reconciliation.
And the Emir of Kuwait is now leading the reconstruction of the work in Iraq.
ANDERSON: Thank you.
ROD-LARSEN: So, there is hope.
ANDERSON: Good. I thank you for that, and so well our viewers as we take a very short break back after this.
ANDERSON: Well, our parting shots tonight, we've been doing politics, a messy regional politics is out which are incredibly important to look at
and find out whether we can sort of but see a route through.
But let's do just something which I think is really important in this part of the show. We want to explore arts, unique ability to bring people
together through creating cross-cultural dialogue and fostering tolerance.
And that could help bridge some of the divides that often exists between this Islamic world and the West. Well, look at this.
ANDERSON: A celebration and an education, all in one. The Al Burda Festival is a 24-hour focus on Islamic art and culture looking at the place
long love traditions can play today.
[10:55:00] NOURA AL KAABI, MINISTER OF CULTURE AND KNOWLEDGE DEVELOPMENT, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES: Defining Islamic art is the definition basically of
our culture. Islam is also a culture that I'm sure that's inspired by the Christianity, by different religions.
ANDERSON: Saudi artists Ahmad Angawi, showcased his work created for the British Museum.
AHMAD SAMI ANGAWI, ARTIST AND DESIGNER, SAUDI ARABIA: How can you innovate without losing the concept of what is ground and what is tradition. So, I
had this great opportunity in the British Museum to produce this amazing five windows. Producing a craft for my kiln in a -- in a different culture
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Contemporary right now.
ANGAWI: And then, contemporary right now. So, should I just copy whatever is in there, then do the same proportion or should I find a way to have a
ANDERSON: Angawi made the five screens from walnut wood using traditional craft with modern methods of working. An approach praised by his father,
acclaimed architect and philosopher, Sami Angawi.
ANGAWI: Most important is to really bring the what is called tradition and give the past a future.
ANDERSON: The screens were displayed in the British Museum's at New Gallery for Islamic Art and for the organizers is this fusion that really
is the focus on the festival.
AL KAABI: I believe, it's how can we get you to understand the base of Islam culture. And then, how do they see it, how can they imagine it in
the future and help us to such an evolution.
ANDERSON: Merging old new east and west, a new focus on age-old techniques that many hope will bring a whole new audience.
ANDERSON: I'm Becky Anderson. That was CONNECT THE WORLD. Thank you for watching.