Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

One-on-One with Zuckerberg; Candidates Debate in Mississippi; Widow Honors Husband Killed in Afghanistan. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired November 21, 2018 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] LAURIE SEGALL, CNN SENIOR TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: It certainly seems like this mission has been accomplished in many ways and -- and there's a whole new set of problems that perhaps you guys didn't foresee. And now we're in a very complicated place where there's not an easy solution.

MARK ZUCKERBERG, CEO, FACEBOOK: Yes, there's -- these are complex issues that you can't fix. You manage them on an ongoing basis.

But, look, do you think that the world is better with everyone having a voice and having the ability to express their opinion and being able to connect to who they want? I don't think we're going back to the world where there were just a handful of gatekeepers that got to control what ideas get expressed. And even if -- and even if we could --

SEGALL: But FaceBook's a new gatekeeper.

ZUCKERBERG: Well, I'm trying to make it so we're not. I mean that's why making it so that we're building these independent governance mechanisms and things like that are really important, and that's work that I -- that I really care about.

But I think that the world will keep on moving in this direction. People will -- more people will keep on getting a voice. I think that that's good. And I think there is certainly going to be issued that we need to work through over time. But I think that while we are doing that, we can't lose sight of all of the really positive things that are -- that are happening here as well.

Even if you just think about the economic impact of what we're doing, you know, we serve 80 million small businesses around the world. About half of them have told us that they are hiring people because of using our tools. And that without FaceBook and the tools that we -- that we provide, that they -- that their business would be significantly smaller and they wouldn't be hiring as many people as they are.

SEGALL: Given what you know now, can FaceBook effectively be a part of politics and can you guarantee that you can control it?

ZUCKERBERG: Well, I think it's a positive force because it gives more people a voice.

SEGALL: But it's also given nation states a voice, too, in our democratic process.

ZUCKERBERG: And that part needs to be managed really carefully. But, I mean --

SEGALL: And you're confident that you guys can do that?

ZUCKERBERG: With the right support from governments and partnerships and a ton of investment on an ongoing basis, I think we can stay ahead from these sophisticated threats.

So we're not done here. We need to keep on making sure that we stay one step ahead.

SEGALL: "The New York Times" called it delay, deny and deflect, the motto for how FaceBook leaders handled the last couple years in crisis. What do you think the motto should be? What will it be going forward?

ZUCKERBERG: It's learn from the issues that we face and focus really intensely on making sure we resolve them, even if it's going to be long and painful, even if it's going to take a year or two to get on top of some of these really complex issues, even if the solutions are never perfect. These are really important things for society, and I just want people to know that we take this incredibly seriously and are very focused on this.

And I think, over the last couple of years, we've made a huge amount of progress and I'm very proud of that.

SEGALL: Have you, as a leader, looked at yourself in the last year and reflected and made some hard, challenging changes? Because you look on the outside and there are a lot of people questioning your leadership, questioning this company. Have you personally changed in any capacity to be able to be better equipped to handle FaceBook now rather than the FaceBook that you built in your dorm room?

ZUCKERBERG: Absolutely. I mean I'm always thinking about this stuff. And I think the biggest learning for me, which I'm too slow to, is that when you connect two and a half billion people, you're going to see all the good that they're capable of and incredible things, but you're also going to have all of these people who just try to use those tools to subvert the same ideals that we care about. And now, you know, we're taking that lens toward everything that we're doing and not only trying to build the good, to empower people, to give more people a voice, but in everything that we do we're working to make sure that those tools can't be misused. And I think that that's something that we're going to come out of this episode, this series of challenges that we're dealing with, and this will be baked into the DNA of the company of how of we operate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SEGALL: I think you could say society, mental health, quite a bit depends on that statement of whether it is baked into the DNA of this company, because his company is simply too powerful at this time for them to not get in front of some of these issues, you know, because it is impacting all of us. And I think you begin the sense the gravity of this. It's why Mark Zuckerberg needs to get out there more publically as the leader of, as I said, two billion people, digitally.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, in your interview, one of the themes is power, his power, Sheryl Sandberg's power. Do they have too much? Is it being checked? Is there a system that's going to go into place to make sure that Zuckerberg isn't as powerful?

SEGALL: Yes, look, I think they've made some changes. A lot of folks are upset when their contacts get taken down and FaceBook says, oh, it was because of this. And Mark Zuckerberg does not want to be editor in chief of FaceBook, I'll tell you that much. They've added an independent third party where you can appeal. And if this independent third party said FaceBook was wrong, they don't get a say in it and your content goes back up. But that's one very small thing.

I think you're going to hear more and more over -- about the leadership and whether, you know, Mark Zuckerberg is too powerful. He's the CEO and the chairman, 60 percent shareholder. I mean this is a very big deal when it comes to making some decisions when there need to be a lot of complicated, nuance decisions made at this time and at this company at this point.

[08:35:14] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And what about Sheryl Sandberg's future?

SEGALL: It's a good question. You know, you hear Mark say, you know, I hope she'll be here for the next ten years. But, you know, you kind of heard him hedge a bit too. You never know. I think Sheryl Sandberg is in -- is a brand in and of herself, you know? There's always a question of will she run for office at some point? Who will she be? And I think she's always been her own protected brand. And I think, at this point, it's been interesting to watch that get tarnished a little bit with a lot of the news cycle and a lot of the stories coming out that don't paint her in the best light.

You know, I -- we hear what Mark says about her being there and a partner for the next 10 years, but I think keep an eye out for that one because in the next couple of years it will be interesting to see if she stays or if she kind of gracefully exits. You know, I think it's anyone's guess.

BERMAN: That answer was really interesting, because clearly he knew the question was coming and had a very prepared response to that.

SEGALL: Yes.

BERMAN: Laurie, great to have you with us. Great interview.

CAMEROTA: Yes, (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: Happy you made that exclusive happen.

SEGALL: Thanks, you guys.

BERMAN: All right, a Republican Senate candidate who joked about going to a public hanging fights back by pointing the finger at her African- American opponent. You'll hear from both of them, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:16] BERMAN: Mississippi voters go to the polls next Tuesday in a Senate run-off between Republican Senator Cindy Hyde-Smith and Democratic challenger Mike Espy. Last night the two faced off in their only debate ahead of this.

CNN's Martin Savidge live in Jackson, Mississippi, with the latest.

Martin.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

This is the last undecided Senate seat of the entire midterms. And a month ago nobody -- well, hardly anybody in the state of Mississippi, which is so conservative, would have thought that a Democratic candidate stood any kind of a chance. But thanks to their Republican opponent, they just might.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE (voice over): Senator Cindy Hyde-Smith tried to dial back the storm of criticism the Republican sparked by joking about a public hanging.

SEN. CINDY HYDE-SMITH (R), MISSISSIPPI: If he invited me to a public hanging, I'd be on the front row.

SAVIDGE: During Tuesday's debate in a run-off campaign, Hyde-Smith apologized, but also accused others of twisting her words for political gain.

HYDE-SMITH: You know, for anyone that was offended from my -- by my comments, I certainly apologize. There was no ill will, no intent whatsoever in my statement. This comment was twisted and it was turned into a weapon to be used against me, a political weapon used for nothing but personal and political gain by my opponent.

SAVIDGE: Her Democratic opponent, Mike Espy, said her words weren't distorted by anyone.

MIKE ESPY (D), MISSISSIPPI SENATE CANDIDATE: Well, no one twisted your comments because the comments were loud. You know, it came out of your mouth. So it's caused our state harm. It's given our state another black eye that we don't need.

SAVIDGE: Since the public hanging remarks, a number of corporate donors to the Hyde-Smith campaign have asked for their money back, including Walmart. And a 2014 FaceBook post that surfaced Tuesday showing Hyde-Smith posing with confederate artifacts further fueled critics.

Just how much of an impact the Hyde-Smith controversy is having on voters depends on who you talk to. JIMMY RHODES, SEN. CINDY HYDE-SMITH SUPPORTER: If people really truly

are understanding what she's all about, I don't think that will affect them.

JORDAN MALONE, MIKE ESPY SUPPORTER: It made it very clear, both to me and to a lot of other black Mississippians, that the Republican candidates do not rally have our best interests at heart.

SAVIDGE: Espy, who is still considered an underdog in this deeply red state, is counting on an energized black electorate, as well as possible crossover voters now reconsidering their support of Hyde- Smith.

President Trump will be in Mississippi next week to campaign for Senator Hyde-Smith. And Tuesday he seemed to already be working damage control.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She made a statement which I know that she feels very badly about it, and it was just sort of said in jest. She's a tremendous woman, and it's a shame that she has to go through this.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: The real key to victory for both campaigns here may not be how they handle controversy, but how they get out the vote. Remember, it's next Tuesday when this run-off election takes place. And, quite frankly, many people in Mississippi are kind of over the midterm thing. In fact, you could say they have a severe case of voter fatigue.

So, it's going to be a real challenge to see how they can shift people's thoughts away from the holidays and back on to politics.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Yes, it will, Marty. Certainly one to watch. Thank you very much for all of that background.

So the mayor of North Ogden, Utah, gave his life this month in combat in Afghanistan. His widow has been a pillar of strength in the two weeks since. Coming up, she tells us how she and their seven children are doing this day before Thanksgiving.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:48:02] CAMEROTA: Patriot, leader, hero. Those are just some of the words used to describe U.S. Army Major Brent Taylor. He was also the mayor of North Ogden, Utah, and he was killed in combat in Afghanistan during his fourth tour of duty less than three weeks ago. Major Taylor was only 39 years old and he was the father of seven children. His widow, Jennie Taylor, delivered powerful words after receiving his body back onto American soil.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JENNIE TAYLOR, WIDOW OF ARMY MAJOR BRENT RUSSELL TAYLOR: To call it a sobering event would be an unspeakable understatement. To say that our hearts are anything less than shattered would be nothing short of true deceit. And yet to deny the sacred honor that it is to stand that close to some of the freshest blood that has been spit for our country would be absolute blasphemy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Jennie Taylor joins us now from the city council chambers where her husband served as mayor for five years and city counselor for six years prior to that.

Jennie, good morning. Can you hear us?

: Yes, I can. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK, Jennie, listen, this is hard for -- we can only imagine how hard it is for you. It's hard for us even to hear. So take -- drink water. Do whatever you need to do because we were so struck, Jennie, by your eloquence and by what a beacon of strength you were that day as you said all of those beautiful words about Brent. And so tell us how you are doing today. I mean, listen, we all know the conventional wisdom that it's after the funeral that things get even harder often. And I know that Brent's funeral was on Saturday, a few days ago. So how are you and the kids doing today?

JENNIE TAYLOR, WIDOW OF ARMY MAJOR BRENT TAYLOR: Yes, definitely. Thanks for having us.

We're -- I think we're doing all right. We're being buoyed up with a lot of community support and love. We've got family and friends and even perfect strangers that have come, stepped in, and just helped us in so many ways. Obviously we're up and we're down. I think, to a degree, we're still kind of in shock.

[08:50:10] You know, he's already been gone nine and a half months when this happened. We weren't expecting him home until January or February. So in a lot of moments, it feels like he's just not back yet. And, you know, soon he'll be boarding a plane and come back and get back to being mayor, get back to being dad, get back to being husband, get back to running our little farm in the backyard. And so sometimes we -- I think it escapes us that this is real.

And I'll find myself talking or thinking or enjoying these great experiences with my children and then the weight of it will hit that, oh, yes, you know, there's a reason that I'm talking to CNN this morning. There's a reason that I have a beautiful new flag in my home. There's a reason there's flowers and gifts and blankets that have been brought to us. And that reason is heavy, but it's also been an extremely honorable three weeks to now join the ranks of those who have previously given their service member to our country. It's been extremely humbling.

CAMEROTA: I know that his body was returned that night that we watched you making that speech. It was Election Day. And, for you, that was really significant.

TAYLOR: Yes.

CAMEROTA: So tell us about that.

TAYLOR: It was extremely significant. First we joked that he was late. He tended to always run late because he was always trying to get more done than there was probably time to do. And the flight was expected on Monday night around 9:30 p.m. And when we had landed in Dover after a very long day, a very long flight, we were told that the flight would be delayed, his flight, and that he would then be coming in at 3:30 in the morning, which, as it started to sink in, we realized, that's Election Day. That's Election Day.

He felt so passionately about democracy, about the engagement of the regular citizens, about our need to exercise our right to vote, exercise our right to have an opinion, to choose good leaders, to get out and do our part. And it just seemed so powerfully fitting that he would come home to American soil on that very day when elections were -- when ballots were being cast on our soil shortly after he gave his life fighting for the right for other people in other nations to be able to cast their ballots on their soil.

CAMEROTA: And, in fact, one of his last FaceBook posts just a few days before he was killed, he talked about democracy and about the elections. So let me read that to everybody. He says, it was beautiful to see over four million Afghan men and women brave threats and deadly attacks to vote in Afghanistan's first parliamentary elections in eight years. The strong turnout, despite the attacks and challenges, was a success for the long suffering people of Afghanistan and for the cause of human freedom. I am proud of the brave Afghan and U.S. soldiers I serve with.

I mean Brent was a man who gave his life to service, to military service, to public service. What is he made of? Why was that so important to him?

TAYLOR: You know, it's just who he was. It's who he was long before I met him. It's who he was long before he ever ran for office. And it's who he was even before he enlisted in the United States Army. He has always been driven to serve God, family and country.

And it's interesting to note that that very day that he had posted that post, that now has kind of been heard around the world about the importance of elections in Afghanistan, the day before he had lost one of his close friends who was a member of the Afghan army that had been killed defending those elections. And he sent me a picture. I had heard there had been some attacks and, of course, the elections were very heated. They had been postponed for eight years because of dangers. And when the elections finally took place, I asked him, how did it go? What was it? He said, you know, it went well. You can read it in his FaceBook post. They called it a success. It was a victory, even though there were attacks. And he said, my best friend was killed by the Taliban yesterday and he sent a picture of himself with a young Afghan lieutenant that he called his best friend. He loves the Afghan people, his NATO allies, his fellow Americans. He

had an ability to really prioritize human relationships over tasks that needed to be done. So for him it was an honor to serve among these Afghan people who were fighting so hard for their own country.

He had been to Afghanistan six years before, served among other military members who -- many of whom were killed before he returned back this time. They'd been fighting for their country for so long and he just admired them and their tenacity and their desire to have the freedoms that we so often take for granted here in our country.

CAMEROTA: And so, Jennie, tomorrow is Thanksgiving. What will you tell your children about what happened to their dad?

TAYLOR: You know, probably the same thing we've been saying for the last three weeks, and they've heard plenty of it. They've -- they've been involved in the conversations. They've attended the funeral. I don't know how much of the media they've heard, but they've certainly heard brothers and fathers and friends and aunts and uncles that have spoken of their dad. And we always come back to how grateful we are.

[08:55:02] You know, Thanksgiving is a day of gratitude. It's a day of reflection. Our hearts are full. Our hearts are broken, but our hearts are full. And when I talk to our children, not just now, but into the future, it will always be with a sense of pride. To be able to be a soldier's son or a soldier's daughter, a soldier's wife, a soldier's mother is an honor. There are not a lot of people willing to pick up a soldier's uniform and -- especially to go into combat.

And Brent wasn't forced. He wasn't obligated to even join the Army in the first place. He was driven. Something within him, his connection to God, drove him to want to serve our country. And not just from a desk job in America. He wanted to be where the action was. He wanted to be where he felt he could make the best impact, have the greatest cause or the greatest chance of making progress helping other people. And our children know that.

You know, it's interesting to think three weeks ago their father was killed, but their entire lives he's been in public service. Our daughter Megan (ph), our son Lincoln (ph), this is their fourth deployment, too. It's all they've ever known. Brent was already a soldier when they were born. They've been born into this great American heritage.

And so though, again, we're heartbroken and I think we're still in shock. I think the heartache will be felt for weeks and months and years to come. I'm sure we will revisit this grief as each of our children hit certain milestones. You know, the milestones of entering high school, entering college, moving away, finding through own spouses, moving on to their own careers, starting their own families. You re-grieve the loss of not having a parent with you.

But we're also very open in our faith and our belief that Brent is still with us. He's in our hearts. We have his memory. We have his legacy. We might not have his physical body, but his physical body has been away from us a lot in our marriage and in my children's young lives and they've always known that Brent loves them, that he adores them, that he would and has given his life for them. And we'll make sure that on Thanksgiving and every day that's what we talk about when they remember their dad.

CAMEROTA: And, Jennie, I know that you've brought some precious items with you that you want to share with us and our viewers.

TAYLOR: Yes.

CAMEROTA: So can you tell us about those?

TAYLOR: Yes. Yes. So the first is this beautiful flag, which was, of course, the flag presented to me by the general of the Utah National Guard. It was the flag draped over my husband's casket and has great significance for not just Brent's life that has been lost and his blood that has been shed, but the thousands and thousands of Americans that have paid this high price of freedom. So this, of course, will be going in a very special display in our home. Each of my children has a similar flag, not draped on the casket, but presented to the casket and given to them at the grave site.

And there I've also brought -- there were four medals that my husband was given posthumously. They gave them to us just minutes before the public viewing began on Friday. And, you know, the Purple Heart, of course, is hard to receive. I think one of the local newspapers caught a picture of me receiving that award with -- that's a heavy one to receive because there's a reason you receive the Purple Heart. And, in this case, it's a very obvious reason why he was awarded the Purple Heart.

But the other three, I'll tell you, when they read these three medals and the words that went along with it, what they were giving him and why they were giving him, I could not stop but beam with pride for my husband. This great American hero. He was a great American hero in life and then has sealed that with his death. But the Meritorious Service Medal, the Joint Services Award Medal and the Bronze Star. I mean you can't be presented those and thanked for your husband's service without feeling an extreme sense of pride in this man who dedicated himself to God, family and country.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh, Jennie. I mean you make us feel proud because we had somebody like Brent here serving our country. You know, military service and public service. I mean, as we said, he served in that room where you're sitting. He was the mayor. He was a city counselor.

TAYLOR: Yes.

CAMEROTA: He just did it all. You have seven children. I mean the fact that you both have been able -- had been able to balance all of that. And it's just -- it's just remarkable, Jennie. And we're thinking of you as this Thanksgiving approaches.

TAYLOR: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: We're thinking of your family. And we are so grateful for your husband's sacrifice, your family's sacrifice and all of your service.

TAYLOR: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: So thank you so much for letting us honor an American hero, your husband.

TAYLOR: Thank you. And have a happy Thanksgiving.

[08:59:50] CAMEROTA: You too.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)