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Trump and Chief Justice Clash Over Independence of Judiciary; Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade Kicks Off Soon. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired November 22, 2018 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[07:00:00] DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This was an Obama judge.

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Roberts' silence would have been backing Trump and so he stood up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To say that a judge is left-leaning or right- leaning is ludicrous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two cars broke off from an Amtrak train headed for New York City.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This car, like, came running. The train is disconnected.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We took the train because it was safe, but I guess today is, you know, I am grateful to be here.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: People already lining the route waiting with their breakfast on their laps.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's going to be called Santa Claus is his way. And the balloons will fly.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Listen to that fancy music we have today.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I guess that's Thanksgiving music.

HILL: I feel like there should be, I don't know, sugarplum fairy somewhere.

BERMAN: I know. There should be Arlo Guthrie. Should be "Alice's Restaurant."

In the 8:00 hour we'll meet you back in --

HILL: 8:00 hour.

BERMAN: We'll be playing Arlo when we come back in. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. And Happy

Thanksgiving. Alisyn is off, Erica Hill joins me, which is wonderful. Thank you for being here. Look at that. Live pictures. That's outside here on the streets of New York City. I feel like doing that -- never.

(LAUGHTER)

HILL: But that's how you stay warm on a day like this.

BERMAN: It is. Look, it's really, really cold outside in advance of the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. There are questions about whether it will be too cold for the floats and balloons. We're going to get a live update for you there in just a moment.

But first, a new Thanksgiving tradition where the president tells the chief justice of the United States that he needs to study the court system. It's pretty stunning. Even more so the public rebuke of the president by the chief justice. This is what John Roberts wrote.

"We do not have Obama judges or Trump judges, Bush judges or Clinton judges. What we have is an extraordinary group of dedicated judges doing their level best to do equal rights to those appearing before them. That independent judiciary is something we should all be thankful for."

President Trump has made a habit of blasting judges who rule against him while the chief justice has long defended judicial integrity and independence.

HILL: The Supreme feuds sparked by President Trump's anger over a judge's decision to block his new migrant asylum policy. An alternate plan, though, is it already in the works? Want to block asylum seekers. The "Washington Post" reporting overnight the Trump administration is set to implement sweeping new measures at the southern border. The plan called "Remain in Mexico" would force those seeking asylum in America to do just that, to wait in Mexico while their cases are processed. It would be a major break of course of current screening procedures.

BERMAN: Joining us now senior White House correspondent, Bloomberg news, and CNN political analyst, Margaret Talev, former special assistant to President George W. Bush and CNN political commentator Scott Jennings, and editor and publisher of "Inside Election" and CNN political analyst Nathan Gonzales.

Welcome, friends. And Happy Thanksgiving to you all.

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Happy thanksgiving.

NATHAN GONZALES, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Happy Thanksgiving.

BERMAN: So, Scott, I want to start with you because you were either in the White House or the administration when John Roberts was nominated to be the chief justice of the United States by President Bush, he is, of course, a Republican-appointed judge. And I think a pretty mild mannered guy. It takes a lot for him I think to weigh in the way he did. I am wondering why you think he chose this moment and this way?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, I was in the White House and was in fact part of the team that helped confirm Chief Justice Roberts, which was an easy confirmation because he was a well-qualified, extremely intelligent guy, and a good pick by the president.

I think what Chief Justice Roberts feels like his job is now is to look out for the integrity of and the reputation of the entire judiciary. I mean, in a world where a lot of people view most of government is being polarized, is being, you know, partisan for you or partisan against you, I think he believes it's his job to make sure that folks view the judiciary as independent.

All of that having been said, I think it's a little Pollyannaish to say that we don't have conservative judges or we don't have liberal judges. That's not to say it makes you unqualified to be a liberal or a conservative or to have an ideology like that. But clearly the 9th Circuit in question here has been a more liberal court since the Carter years. Other circuits have gotten more liberal or conservative over the years, that's absolutely true.

And when presidents take office, what do they tell their supporters? I'm going to appoint certain kinds of judges. So I think it's OK for the chief judge here, the chief justice, to look out for the integrity of the judiciary, but let's be honest, these judges do have ideologies.

HILL: Well, and Margaret, to that point, this, too, as we've seen from President Trump who as touted this, he has been fulfilling his campaign promise all along of more conservative judges.

TALEV: Sure. But when you're a president and you nominate a judge, you are nominating someone who you think that their ideology or their -- where they're coming from, from a judicial perspective may mesh with yours, you are not getting a guarantee that they will rule in ways that are seen as loyal to you or that they'll always do what you want. And it seems to me, although we haven't really seen the chief justice kind of explicate his thinking on this, that while this specific case involving the 9th Circuit judge was kind of the jumping off point for this, the trigger point for this, that there are probably a number of other tests that the president has implemented on the independence of not just the judiciary but the legal system that may have helped shape Justice Roberts' thinking about coming forward and making a statement.

[07:05:25] BERMAN: And again, it just really is unusual for a chief justice particularly this chief justice to do this in this way.

Nathan, you're an elections guy. So I want to look at it from the other perspective here because I think there are two competing things here that the president just did, yes, judges are a political issue and an election issue, particularly for Republicans, an animated issue, which Scott Jennings I think will tell you that. However, we just came through a midterm election where I think the president's demeanor and attitude was also an election issue, particularly in suburbs, particularly among suburban women, and this week he is picking a fight with everybody, right? He picked a fight with William McRaven. He picked a fight now or he's in the midst of a fight with the chief justice of the United States.

I'm not sure that's a winning issue for him.

GONZALES: Yes. Well, first of all, you're right and Scott was right, that there are no accidents in this. I mean, there was no accident that the president criticized Chief Justice Roberts. This was not an off-camera moment for Chief Justice Roberts, or he was talking to a group of fifth graders in his sleep. I mean, this was all very intentional. And I'm not sure there's a lot of political fallout for the president.

You know, there are some Republicans and conservatives who have already turned their back on Chief Justice Roberts because of his involvement in the decision with the Affordable Care Act. Whenever -- you know, we have to remember that the Republican Party has become all about President Trump and whatever he does or says or the enemies that he chooses they're going to be with him, and I think that remains the case in this situation.

TALEV: Although -- that's true, but Chief Justice Roberts doesn't have to worry about re-election. It doesn't matter which party is in charge of any chamber, doesn't whether the president gets re-elected or not, you know, the president can't remove the chief justice from his position and because of the shift of the court towards Trump appointees, Trump nominees, Justice Roberts, who is a conservative, finds himself in the perhaps unexpected position of nabbing the centers on the court.

So I think he understands that regardless of whether or not he has the full support of the Republican Party that's not really his concern anymore. And I don't know how often we'll see him speak out, but I think this is a recognition that he feels there's a special responsibility on him.

HILL: Scott, what's also fascinating, too, is if we look at what kicked all of this off, right, so this is this ruling, this temporary restraining order, which stated that the president can't rewrite immigration laws to impose a condition that Congress has expressedly forbidden.

But, Scott, when we look at the way the president does things, we know that he does not adhere to the norms of the way Washington works or even three branches of government, checks and balances seem like dirty word in some ways for this White House. But what has been very effective for this president is to be able to tout a battle like this, to say it is the 9th Circuit, to talk about the liberal court, to talk about the issues there and that, Scott, can actually be a very effective rallying cry for the president. The question of course being does it go beyond his base at this point? JENNINGS: Yes, and it's a good rallying cry because you have a

president who ran on a certain kind of agenda. And by the way there are a lot of conservatives who believe that the president of the United States, no matter who he it is, has a lot more authority than the 9th Circuit believes he does to protect the country, to enforce our borders, and that will go up the chain and we'll find out if the president is right.

But the fight here is important, not just because the president is showing his people that he is trying to enact the agenda that he ran on, but as he heads towards his own reelection, he'll be judged on the things he got done and the things that he didn't. And if there are a certain number of things that didn't happen because of a court, because of or circuit, because of an individual judge, then that person becomes a foil in the campaign.

Somebody is going to say well, Donald Trump, you didn't enforce the immigration laws, or you didn't secure our border to the extent that you said you would, he then can pivot and say, you know why, because of these judges. So it's not just about maintaining a base or stoking a base, there is some argument forward looking for re-election because you have to find people to blame if you don't keep your promises, sometimes it will be Democrats and sometimes it will be courts.

BERMAN: There is forward-lookingness, to make up a word, in that to be sure for the election, but if you're looking forward, you do want to note that the chief justice of the United States does have a lifetime appointment.

HILL: Yes.

BERMAN: So he'll always be there no matter where you are going forward. And he could be a deciding vote on things that matter a lot to you, President Trump, including the Mueller investigation, which is very much ongoing and it was striking to here Rudy Giuliani say yesterday that, yes, the president has turned in the answers to the written questions, but yes, also, we think that Robert Mueller still might have more questions and might want to have an in-person interview. Still, maybe, we don't know.

[07:10:02] And Nathan, it just doesn't seem like this is going to end. Everyone thought that we might hear from Mueller immediately after the election, before Thanksgiving. It is Thanksgiving so that's not going to happen. So this is continuing to loom over this presidency.

GONZALES: Well, I think it's remarkable. It's almost like the 2018 elections didn't even happen. We've already moved on, right? We're still counting ballots in California and there's a special -- there's a run-off in Mississippi coming up next week, but we're back to Mueller and the investigations. But one thing that stuck out to me beyond this -- the most recent -- the answers that have been submitted is that things are about to get tougher for the president when it comes to investigations because we now have -- we'll now have a Democratic-controlled House of Representatives.

And so it's not just going to be a single back and forth with Mueller and his team. Now the Democrats are going to have some subpoena power and they're going to have the ability to launch investigations. And so there's going to be a multi-front war that the White House is going to be fighting when it comes to investigations.

BERMAN: Friends, thank you very much for being here with us today. Happy Thanksgiving to all of you. Very nice of you to come in on this holiday. The best to you and your families.

TALEV: Happy Thanksgiving.

GONZALES: You too. Happy Thanksgiving.

JENNINGS: Happy Thanksgiving. Thank you.

BERMAN: So there's this parade.

HILL: It's kind of a big deal.

BERMAN: It's kind of a big deal. The Macy's 92nd Annual Thanksgiving Day Parade kicks off in just under two hours. Spectators facing record-breaking cold temperatures. But we are getting some good news just in. It looks like the big balloons will be able to fly.

It's all because of CNN's Miguel Marquez who has been manning the balloons and is live at the parade route with the very latest -- Miguel.

MARQUEZ: We are taking care of those balloons. Look, it is not cold. These are the Rangerettes from Kilgore, Texas, look what they are wearing? They are doing fine.

(CHEERS)

MARQUEZ: And not only the Rangerettes, but look at these crowds.

You guys aren't cold, are you?

(CHEERS)

MARQUEZ: It seems like a whole (INAUDIBLE) Thanksgiving.

The band from Ohio, Ohio State University right down here, they are getting ready to warm up and the smaller balloons. There are 43 of these smaller balloons, 16 of the big ones. There'll be four new ones this year. Those are the one that they're most concerned about. If those winds get up to 23 miles per hour sustained or 34-mile-per-hour gusts then they can bring them down.

They can do it during the parade even. They'll have wind monitors throughout the parade so they'll be able to tell whether or not they need to bring those balloons down, but right now it's a little bit of wind. Check this out.

All getting going. We're two hours from this parade getting going, and this is what they start doing. So it is incredible to see how much preparation goes into this and how ready people are. A little bit of wind right now but it looks like it's going to be a cold but stunning day.

Erica, back to you.

HILL: It looks beautiful out there. And I love that we just got a little taste of the parade there which worked out very well.

You look a little cold, my friend, and I'm concerned about you.

MARQUEZ: I am.

HILL: Because I feel like you need a hat.

MARQUEZ: Well, I have a hat but, you know, the hat messes up the hair.

BERMAN: Yes. I mean, come on.

MARQUEZ: To be honest.

HILL: Fair point.

MARQUEZ: As you know, I'm Latino. We run hot and it's absolutely fine out here, so I am doing OK.

BERMAN: The first rule of television correspondenting is it's all about the hair. You can't cover up the hair.

(LAUGHTER)

HILL: Always. Obviously.

BERMAN: Obviously. And I want to ask you, Miguel, was that a clown dance happening behind you?

MARQUEZ: There is a clown dance happening right behind us. They are warming up, getting ready for the parade and they are practicing putting it all together. It's amazing how much time, how much effort, how many clowns, how many turkeys, and how many stars, how many cheerleaders we have seen out here all morning long trying to stay warm, huddling together like penguins basically, so the coldest ones in the center and then as they get warm they move to the outside. Absolutely incredible.

BERMAN: They do look like happy clowns and not scary clowns.

HILL: Thankfully.

BERMAN: Which is why Miguel was doing as well as he is right there.

HILL: Yes. There are scary clowns if --

MARQUEZ: We know you love a scary clown.

HILL: Yes, yes, all day every day.

Miguel Marquez, thank you. We'll check in with you again soon. The one man we haven't seen, by the way, this morning, the big man, Santa. This is his kind of weather.

BERMAN: This is his day.

HILL: He comes at the very end of the parade so maybe he is just waking up and brunching now.

BERMAN: Perhaps.

HILL: This Thanksgiving could be the coldest in more than a century. CNN meteorologist, Chad Myers, joining us now with the forecast. Not just for New York but for the whole country.

Good morning.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Good morning. Santa arrived two hours early. He had a tailwind right out of the North Pole. So he's already over by the meadowlands right now so we don't expect him on TV for another four or five hours so he's just having a little rest right now.

Wind chill five. It feels like five degrees outside. I would need like a mouth warmer for my trumpet, what you want to do, especially those guys playing the tuba. Imagine how cold that thing is.

[07:15:03] Otherwise today it is going to stay cold tomorrow and colder, though. Can you imagine tomorrow morning if you had the per diem, it would be 17 and right now we're 20, so I don't know if you can feel the difference. But Mount Pellier, you feel like 16 below. That's a loser right there. Caribou, 14 below. Many areas across the northeast are going to be cold today. Almost 20 spots will break records here.

Now the warmth is in the west. It's hard to believe but temperatures in Billings, Montana, will be 25 degrees warmer than New York City today. New York, you warm up a little bit. There's your morning low. There's your normal high. Your normal high should be 52. We're 25 degrees colder than that. But really the northeast, the only real cold spot in the country. Denver gets to 61, Billings all the way to 49.

Guys, back to you.

BERMAN: We're going to check on the tuba player for you, Chad. We're going to get back to you, Chad, make sure he's doing OK.

We have new concerns about the entire brass section of the band from the Ohio State University. But we'll make sure they're OK.

HILL: Yes. We will. John Berman is a giver and he cares.

BERMAN: All right. We've been talking about the president and the chief justice of the United States. This very unusual back-and-forth for them. We've been talking about giving thanks and coming up we're going to talk to a former member of Congress, a member who retired this year. We'll ask him if he's thankful for that.

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[07:20:12] BERMAN: All right. Happy Thanksgiving to all of you. What was the first thing that President Trump chose to speak about or write about when he woke up this morning? Well, let me read you the words. He says, quote, "It's a mean and nasty world out there, the Middle East in particular."

This is another statement that he's putting out in defense of his decision to take the side of Saudi Arabia against his own intelligence agency which says that the crown prince of Saudi Arabia ordered the assassination of "Washington Post" journalist, Jamal Khashoggi.

The president has been criticized for this from Republicans and Democrats alike, but this morning he is still talking about it.

Let's bring in a former Republican congressman from this commonwealth, I should say. I was about to say state of Pennsylvania. The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Charlie Dent.

Congressman, thanks for being with us. Happy Thanksgiving to you. The president has presented the Jamal Khashoggi situation and his decision to side with Saudi Arabia. He says it's a binary choice. He presents it as a binary choice. Either we can have Saudi oil or we can condemn murder. Is it that simple?

CHARLIE DENT (R), FORMER PENNSYLVANIA CONGRESSMAN: No, it's not, John. And by the way, Happy Thanksgiving. No, it's absurd. Of course the American relationship with Saudi Arabia is largely transactional. It's also strategic, it's really not a relationship based so much on shared values. That said, our values do matter. The killing of a U.S. person, a green card holder, Mr. Khashoggi, you know, is absolutely beyond the pale, over the top, and they have -- the Saudis have to be held to account for that.

Now nobody is really arguing for a schism or for a divorce from the Saudis, but we have to hold them to account for this. And there are sanctions that have been imposed and I suspect there will be additional sanctions or other consequences imposed by Congress on the war in Yemen or elsewhere. So I think that it's not that simple of a binary choice. The president shouldn't simplify this relationship to one of dollars and cents of arm sales and oil.

BERMAN: It's interesting because it was two days ago that he took that Saudi side with that statement, with all exclamation points. It was yesterday that he thanked Saudi Arabia for low oil prices, and it's today where again his first statement on Thanksgiving is about the Middle East and Saudi Arabia.

Are you surprised that he didn't just make this decision but he's now making this a central argument in his daily musings?

DENT: Again I don't think it makes much sense at all for the president to be making these kinds of comments. Look, the United States is really not very dependent on Saudi oil. We're not. Now our friends and allies are, and you know, we've have always had an understanding with the Saudis. You know, we -- they supply oil and we keep the oil lanes open. That's more or less has been the deal for all these decades.

But the president asked -- he has to respect American values, and now we can't expect the Saudis to adopt our values on issues that we care about, women's rights or religious liberty, but at the same time, you know, this killing of an American green card holder is a very big deal and the Saudis have to be held to account. Everybody knows it and for the president to kind of dismiss all that is -- well, it's a tough world out there and, you know, we need the Saudis.

Well, yes, you know what, we need them but they need us more. So we are bargaining from a position of strength as far as I am concerned.

BERMAN: Let's talk about the chief justice of the United States, John Roberts, who chose yesterday as the day and the moment to make a statement, a public rebuke in a way, a really direct way, frankly, of the president of the United States, saying there's no such thing as Obama judges and Trump judges.

It was very unusual for the chief justice to do that, also unusual for the president to engage in a back-and-forth, to be directly critical of the chief justice. And even as you and I have been speaking in the last three minutes, Congressman, the president has -- you know, it's Thanksgiving morning. Mind you, you know, a lot of people are cooking their meals right now, spending time with family. The president is up tweeting about John Roberts, no less, criticizing him once again for the fact that he came out and pointing out his concerns with the 9th Circuit.

What do you make of this back-and-forth?

DENT: Well, the Chief Justice John Roberts is doing what he must do. He must protect the independence and the integrity of the judiciary. He is the top judge in this country -- justice in this country, and that is his job is to protect his branch of government, and he's doing it.

And by the way, a little John Roberts trivia here, I am seated here in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, at the site of the old Bethlehem steel plant. John Roberts' father was the plant manager for this site. My father had worked here with him, an industrial engineer, in HR back in the early 1980s. That's a little trivia about John Roberts I just wanted to share with the audience this morning.

But John Roberts is absolutely in the right to speak up for his judges. I mean, these ad hominem attacks by the president are, you know, out of bounds. You know, we're heating ad hominems ad nauseam from the president it seems with all these attacks on judges and others, frankly. So Roberts is within his rights and is doing the right thing and the president should disengage immediately.

[07:25:15] BERMAN: We should note, among the things we are thankful for is your John Roberts trivia. How else would we learn about the lineage, you know, connected to Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. We're lucky to have you there.

Let's just do big picture for a second. This has been a big year for you, Congressman. You left the Congress after, you know, more than a decade in public service. Are you glad you did that? As you reflect now, is that a decision you are comfortable with here this morning?

DENT: Absolutely. But by the way, I did love my time in public service, both at the state and federal levels. It's certainly a great honor and privilege and opportunity, a responsibility to serve the people who've elected you, but at the same time I felt it was the right time for me to leave. I -- you know, I don't miss having to, you know, as a member of Congress answer to every absurd, you know, presidential tweet or musing.

And I remember at one point, John, when I was in Congress, a reporter -- I might have been a CNN reporter, you know, put a microphone in my face, and say, you know, what do you think about the president's comments on Miss Venezuela's weight? You know, I mean, do I really need to be answering those questions every day or -- you know, of all the issues that we have to talk about, these are the kinds of things that we would be discussing on a regular basis, instead of serious substantive policy, now we're talking about all these other absurd things.

So I don't miss that aspect of the job but I do miss the people. I miss the policy. I just miss the interaction. It's a lot of fun. But hey, I'm in the next phase of my life and I'm having a great time.

BERMAN: And we're thankful of that because that phase in your life includes us.

Former Congressman Charlie Dent, Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Thank you for the history lesson. Appreciate it.

DENT: Thank you, John. Great to be with you. Happy thanksgiving.

BERMAN: You, too. Erica.

HILL: A warning from the CDC this morning. Do not eat romaine lettuce. How will they find the source of this nationwide E. coli outbreak? That is next.

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