Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Surviving Farrakhan Ties. Women's March Founder Calls on Co- Charis to Step Down; Pelosi's Last Battle. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired November 23, 2018 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:46] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Just days after an historic election for female candidates in America, at least 102 women elected to the House for next year, there is a fracture inside the movement that's credited with launching the engagement of women. The founder of the Women's March is now demanding that her current co-chairs step down over very troubling accusations.

Joining us now is Teresa Shook. She is the founder of the Women's March Movement.

Teresa, thanks so much for being with us this morning.

Tell us what happened. What went wrong? What's -- what are you accusing your co-chairs of?

TERESA SHOOK, FOUNDER, WOMEN'S MARCH MOVEMENT: I don't really think I was accusing.

Thank you for having me.

I just made a statement asking them to step down, to have leaders that the whole community could have confidence in.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but what did they do wrong?

SHOOK: There has been some feeling for quite some time that there was some anti-Semitism and hate speech and homophobia remarks. And so I've been asked many times to make a statement. And I've waited because I wanted there to be unity. But then a series of events more recently came about and I was being pressured and asked by -- not pressured, but being asked by many people to step up and to make a statement and I just --

CAMEROTA: And -- well, I'm sorry to interrupt, but just -- if you could just be specific about what were those events? What specifically did your co-chairs say or do that was anti-Semitic?

SHOOK: Ah, yes. Tree -- yes. Tree of Life happened and then the -- Alyssa Milano came out and Debra Messing came out and then the -- there was the German NGO that rescinded the reward. And we are a global movement. And the relationship with Farrakhan and Hamas were troubling to many of the community and have been for a while. And so those were the reasons.

CAMEROTA: OK, so let me just try to connect some of the dots as well.

So, a week before the Tree of Life shooting, the shooting at that synagogue, Louis Farrakhan made public anti-Semitic statements. He said, I'm not an anti-Semite, I'm anti-termite.

SHOOK: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And I believe that your co-chairs still -- well, I don't know if they still supported him, to tell you the truth, because, I mean, if you're citing the Instagram post where one of the co-chairs, Tamika Mallory, said, thank God this man is still alive and doing well. He is definitely the GOAT. Happy birthday to Louis Farrakhan. That was a year -- that was a year earlier. So are you saying that even after Louis Farrakhan said that, there was still support for him among your co-chairs?

SHOOK: Yes, there was. And they've continued on their personal pages and on their own platforms to be aligned with him. And they have not separated their support for him.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, just so that you know what their -- what they say. Linda Sarsour, one of your co-chairs, says that her organization, a Muslim organization that she co-founded, helped raise $230,000 to cover the funeral expenses for the Tree of Life victims. She has said, we have been clear that Mr. Farrakhan has said hateful and hurtful things and he does not align with our unity principals of the Women's March that were created by women of color.

SHOOK: Yes. This has been said before. There's been apologies made before. And they say they will make changes. But then the changes never really happen.

And what I really want to point to is that Women's March Inc. is its own organization. And we are made up of many organizations across the United States and in world. And we are global. And those women organizers and women who worked hard to make the movement and the march happen and then everything that's happened since are separate entities. And so those co-chairs, because of the organic nature that we came about, were never -- it was never a consensual process. And so there's been tension about that from the beginning. And people were just asked to shush (ph).

[08:35:26] And so I was being asked to speak up. And so I did. And so that's part of the reason is that they don't speak for every -- all those sister organizations.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

SHOOK: Those sister organizations are separate entities.

CAMEROTA: I understand. But I mean, obviously, you're trying to bring all sorts of desperate voices and women and agendas together. And, you know, all of your co-chairs put out a statement in response. So this is from Bob Bland, this is from Carmen Perez Jordan, this is from Linda Sarsour, this is from Tamika Mallory and basically what they're trying to say is that we're in the process of learning, that there's a steep learning curve. So here's what they say. We are imperfect. We don't know everything. And we have caused harm. At times we have responded with hurt. But we are committed to learning. We are grateful for people who have been with us for the past two years, wrestling with the challenges and opportunities of what we're trying to build. Our ongoing work speaks for itself. That's our focus, not armchair critiques from those who want to take credit for our labor.

And so why isn't that good enough? I mean they sound contrite. They're apologizing. They want to continue to learn. Why can't they stay on?

SHOOK: I'm not saying they can't. That's up to the community to decide. I was speaking for myself. There's been a huge outpouring of support for that statement and so that's for the community. That's not for me to decide. That's for the community and the sister organizations to work out.

But I will say that they have said that in the past. They make those statements and then nothing changes.

CAMEROTA: OK. And what does all of this mean for the upcoming Women's March?

SHOOK: Oh, we will still march. We are still a disparate group of Women's March organizations and we will march in all the cities and across the world. And I plan -- Women's March Hawaii will be in D.C. and we will march and we will have an event ourselves. And I still believe that we can come together, but we need to address the issues that have been festering and been sort of not dealt with. And we need to resolve it because a lot of women in the community are hurt.

CAMEROTA: It sounds like it. It sounds like it and they certainly have made their voices clear as well.

Well, please, let us know when this is resolved and when you decide what the community will do.

SHOOK: All right.

CAMEROTA: Teresa Shook, thank you very much for coming on with your perspective on this. Thank you.

SHOOK: Thank you for having me.

CAMEROTA: Sure.

John.

JOHN AVLON, CNN ANCHOR: All right, it's Nancy Pelosi's political balancing act. Up next, can she unite her party without further dividing the country?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:42:04] AVLON: She's been called the most powerful woman in the history of American politics and much worse by critics, and now Nancy Pelosi could be on track to face one of her biggest political challenges yet, navigating between an embattled Trump presidency and a Democratic Party that's divided over how to fight back.

Our next guest sat down with the next likely speaker of the House for a piece entitled, "Nancy Pelosi's Last Battle." Author and writer for "New York Times Magazine," Robert Draper joins me now.

Robert, good to have you on NEW DAY.

ROBERT DRAPER, WRITER, "NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE": Thanks, John.

AVLON: So you call this her last battle. This is certainly a difficult balancing act, corralling the cats of the Democratic Party to unify against Trump without alienating those crucial suburban swing voters who swung to Democrats the last election. How do you think she's going to do?

DRAPER: Well, see, I guess the battle really is in two stages. First of all, she has to actually become speaker, which requires getting 218 votes. And at this moment, John, she doesn't have those. But she has --

AVLON: But let me stop you there.

DRAPER: Yes.

AVLON: She has sort of an extraordinary ability to pull people on the fence, or even who had been critical into her camp, most notably Marcia Fudge --

DRAPER: Oh, for sure.

AVLON: Talking about challenging her and then she came out and said, nope, not only is she not going to challenge, she's going to endorse.

DRAPER: Sure. No, it's -- I mean and this is what's -- this is part of the mastery of Nancy Pelosi, that she has an ability, largely owing to her willingness to sit down and listen to members of the Democratic caucus to find out what they really want, to then flip them towards her. And she did that with Marcia Fudge, a six-term congresswoman from Ohio, and more recently of Brian Higgins, a congressman from Buffalo, who had been resolutely against her, then had his resolve tested, and now is in the Pelosi camp. She doesn't have the votes yet, John, but she -- but I suspect she will.

And the second part then will be, as you say, to manage a caucus that is hell bent on going after Trump. Many of them would love to start impeachment proceeding yesterday. Certainly would like to proceed with a number of investigations against members of the Trump cabinet.

Pelosi is not of that mindset. I mean she does feel like that what the American public wants to see, at least right now, is an earnest attempt to govern, to see if they can work with this president. And she has indicated as such to him that she would like to be able to work with President Trump on infrastructure, on lowering health care costs. He has indicated in term that he's willing to do that. And we'll see if he's good on his word. And we'll see if they can meet somewhere in the middle.

AVLON: Well, that would certainly be a great thing for the country. But as you pointed out, there's a great quote she gave you, because she is stereotyped as a San Francisco Democrat, which she literally is, but being on the liberal edge of the Democratic Party. In fact, in your article, she takes a very dismissive tone against those Democrats who want to, quote, begin with impeachment out of the gate and want to abolish ICE. She not only criticizes them, but she says, I don't even really support those. I don't think they're the right thing to do. That's not subtle.

DRAPER: Yes.

[08:45:00] AVLON: She's not bridging. She's disavowing those two positions.

DRAPER: Right. No. I mean basically what she's saying is, we don't have evidence yet, clear-cut evidence, that the president has obstructed justice or in any other way committed an impeachable offense. We've seen some perhaps disquieting disclosures here and there through the news media, but until Mueller's investigation is complete and he sends over whatever recommendations he does, Pelosi's basic view is, let's sit back and watch. And, in the meantime, let's do what we're elected to do. Let's try to governor.

And so, yes, you're exactly right, John, she did evince a certain impatience, even of a bit of bemused annoyance, at more liberal members of her caucus who are basically saying, shoot first and aim second.

AVLON: Well, one of the mysteries of Nancy Pelosi, as you point out, is that here's someone who has had a scandal free tenure essentially in congress over a long period of time who, nonetheless, has a 29 percent approval rating, according to a Gallup poll. What's the problem? Why don't people like Nancy Pelosi?

DRAPER: Well, I mean, I do think that she is among the most easily caricatured people in American politics. She is a San Francisco limousine liberal, as they say. But beyond having said that, if you ask most people, what is it that you don't like about Nancy Pelosi, they're hard pressed to come up with an answer. The answer, of course, behind the dislike, I think, the low approval numbers of Pelosi has nothing to do with her effectiveness, or rather maybe it has everything to do with her effectiveness, the fact that the Republicans find her to be so effective, a leader of the Democrats, that they have vilified her through an avalanche of attack ads over the last -- particularly the last 12 years or so, since she was first running for speaker in 2006. And it's taken its poll.

Pelosi, you know, to her credit, I suppose, has said to members of her caucus, look, you know, you don't have to go out there and support me. You don't have to defend me blindly. In fact, you don't --

AVLON: Right. DRAPER: You can utterly distance yourselves from me. And they have done that. And as a result of that, John, you know, you've seen in this most recent election cycle lots of attack ads on Trump, but you've also seen people defending them. No one defends Pelosi.

AVLON: Oh, of course.

And -- but one extraordinary thing also is the way she -- even if Republicans don't doubt that she has control of her conference, that she's got the votes.

DRAPER: Right.

AVLON: And I want to play very quickly a clip of Donald Trump praising Nancy Pelosi and asking what's behind him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She works very hard and she's worked long and hard. I give her a great deal of credit for what she's done and what she's accomplished.

I like her. Can you believe it? I like Nancy Pelosi. I mean she's tough and she's smart, but she deserves to be speaker.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: Is the president trolling Nancy Pelosi, or does he actually have respect for her?

DRAPER: It's possible to do both at the same time, I think, and he does have a great deal of respect for her. He knows that she's a tough lady.

At the same time, Trump does everything on the outside. He's not an inside battler the way Pelosi is. He litigates all of his stuff in public and he believes he can win the war of public opinion against Pelosi because he knows that he's a very, very effective messenger on the outside for his base. Where if Pelosi does have liabilities, they are on the external end, that she's not a great communicator and that she's not a master of the media. So Trump is more than happy to wage that battle on the outside. At the same time, behind closed doors, he knows that she can win the battles.

AVLON: Robert, thank you.

DRAPER: My pleasure.

CAMEROTA: All right, John, Lagos, known as Niger's Silicon Valley. Both FaceBook and Google have opened offices there within the last year. With the technology sector still dominated by men, one successful computer programmer is determined to help disadvantaged girls fill that gender gap. Meet our 2018 top ten CNN Hero.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ABISOYE AJAYI-AKINFOLARIN, CNN HERO: When I went to Makoko for the

first time, I was surprised to see the living conditions of human beings. Most girls are trapped in a vicious cycle of poverty. Many of them are not thinking education, a plan for the future. I believe girls should be given opportunities. What you can't see, you can't aspire to. They need to be shown another life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: To see more about this mission and to vote for your CNN Hero of the year, go to cnnheroes.com.

AVLON: Alisyn, every dog has its day --

CAMEROTA: Really?

AVLON: And today --

CAMEROTA: Look at that little dog.

AVLON: It's this little creature.

CAMEROTA: That is a creature.

AVLON: It is a creature.

CAMEROTA: I don't even know if there's a dog in there.

AVLON: Somewhere. There's a dog in there somewhere, Alisyn. We'll have more coming up next on NEW DAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:54:02] CAMEROTA: OK, how did this dog that we're about to show you not win the Westminster Dog Show? How did --

AVLON: I mean where is the justice?

CAMEROTA: Look at this. I don't know. But that -- look at that hair. Look at that face. That's -- that's just a fur ball. I mean that looks a lot like Cousin It, right? If you put -- if you put sunglasses on that dog, that's Cousin It.

AVLON: You could have Cousin It. No, you could -- you could have -- I mean there's so many things. It could be a rabbit underneath a wig. It could be a ferret underneath the fur coat. But it's truly extraordinary and apparently it has papered (ph) hind quarters.

CAMEROTA: Tapered hind quarters?

AVLON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Wow. I'd like to -- I'd like to see that.

AVLON: Just, real quick, just watch it walk, though.

CAMEROTA: OK, I want to see it. OK. Let me see the dog run.

AVLON: This is so awesome.

CAMEROTA: OK. Hold on. Lose our manner.

AVLON: I'm sorry.

CAMEROTA: OK. Look at that. Is there anything -- look at this.

AVLON: That's -- I think --

CAMEROTA: That's a dog from another planet.

AVLON: It could be rolling. It's from another planet. And George Lucas like owes its royalties because that is some character out of "Star Wars."

CAMEROTA: I totally agree.

AVLON: It is awesome.

CAMEROTA: That is like an Ewok meets a --

AVLON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Well, I don't know. I guess -- oh, no, it meets Chewbacca.

[08:55:02] That is a -- that is a baby.

AVLON: It's a Chewoka (ph)?

CAMEROTA: It's a Chewoka right there. That's an Ewok and Chewbacca's baby.

AVLON: It's also an homage -- it's just incredible. So, thank you to the dog show for giving us that kind of joy.

CAMEROTA: And that wasn't even the winner.

AVLON: No.

CAMEROTA: The winner was a Whippet.

AVLON: Whippet. Whisky the Whippet, which is a great name for a dog.

CAMEROTA: That's also what my hair -- exactly what my hair looks like when I come in, in the morning before the hair and makeup people do it. That's exactly what it looks like.

AVLON: Wow. All right, well, good stuff.

Speaking of good stuff, it is time for "Good Stuff."

A hospital in Seattle putting together a special Thanksgiving feast for parents whose babies are in the NICU. Now organizers say it's well worth the effort to put smiles on the faces of people facing so much stress and uncertainty. Grace, who just lost her child last year, went back to the hospital to thank the volunteers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They lifted up my spirits to help me survive the most difficult time of my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh. That is so -- the angels in the NICU.

AVLON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: I had two little babies in the NICU for 32 days and the angels in there are extraordinary. I'm so glad that people did nice things for them.

AVLON: That's love. That's the Thanksgiving spirit.

All right, well, thank you all for watching this us on this post- holiday.

CNN "NEWSROOM" with Jim Sciutto will pick up after this break.

And thank you very being here.

AVLON: Absolutely fun.

CAMEROTA: Have a great weekend.

AVLON: Let's go have some leftover sandwiches.

CAMEROTA: Let's do it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)