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U.S. Fires Tear Gas at Migrants Trying to Breach U.S.-Mexico Border; Winter Storms Hitting Midwest; Russia & Ukraine Trade Blame After Naval Incident; Will Mueller Release Russia Probe Final Report Soon? Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired November 26, 2018 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These protesters started rushing our border and overpowered the police in Mexico.

[05:59:15] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The U.S. Border Patrol responded by firing off flash bangs and then the tear gas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The reality is the American people are looking for compassion.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will close the border. We're going to need to have a border, or we'll not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Russia has fired on and seized several Ukrainian navy vessels.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have seen escalating tensions all this past 12 to 18 months.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The key question now is how the United States will respond.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Monday, November 26, 6 a.m. here in New York. I hope you survived Thanksgiving.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, I hope you like the deluxe model Alisyn. I've been eating since Thursday morning.

BERMAN: The tryptophan is still sinking in here. This is still the nap version.

All right. Tensions at the U.S.-Mexico border. U.S. Border Patrol agents deployed tear gas on Central Americans seeking asylum -- this includes women and children -- during an incident near one of the world's busiest border crossings. Mexico says 39 people were arrested after a peaceful march devolved into chaos. Some 500 migrants rushed the border on the Mexican side in Tijuana,

overwhelming police blockades. The San Ysidro port is back open this morning for vehicle and pedestrian traffic after being shut down for hours on Sunday.

CAMEROTA: The unrest at the border providing new fuel for President Trump over the weekend. The president tweeted that migrants seeking asylum in the U.S. will be forced to stay in Mexico while their claims are decided. The incoming Mexican government denies any deal exists with the U.S. about these migrants.

Let's begin our coverage with CNN's Miguel Marquez. He's live in Tijuana, Mexico, with more. What's the situation, Miguel?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I want to show you how all of this works here in Mexico, Alisyn. This is the pedestrian crossing at San Ysidro. It is open now. It is business as usual. This is where all those migrants from the caravan, the 5,000 or so migrants, they come here, line up, and they take numbers to try to sign up for their -- to get their credible fear interview.

This is one of the bridges that they went around. If you go under this bridge, there's the Tijuana River on the other side and then it's the U.S. beyond that. There were Mexican outposts that they overwhelmed and they moved towards the U.S. border; and that's when Customs and Border Protection deployed both tear-gas canisters and pepper balls in order to keep them back.

There's as many as 500 of the migrants who, of the 5,000 or so who are here in that caravan, who they say are responsible for this. All of this as the U.S. and Mexico continue to talk, apparently, about whether or not Mexico is trying to take a stronger or helpful hand in managing these 5,000 immigrants who are here so that the U.S. doesn't have to take them in.

The president says they will not come into the U.S. until they get their asylum claims granted. The Mexican government saying it's not clear that they are going to let them stay in Mexico for that process. Back to you guys.

BERMAN: All right. Miguel Marquez for us at the border this morning. Miguel, thank you very much.

I want to bring in our CNN analysts, David Gregory and John Avlon; and Ana Maria Salazar, former deputy assistant secretary of defense and policy advisor for President Clinton's special envoy for the Americas.

Ana Maria, you've dealt with this issue for years and years. We just saw the border looking very peaceful, albeit at 3 a.m. this morning behind Miguel Marquez over there. Yesterday, not peaceful at all. How do you assess what's happened over the last 24 hours?

ANA MARIA SALAZAR, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I would say we have to look at what happened in the last month and a half when the caravan first came into Mexico from -- when they crossed into the Guatemalan -- the Guatemalan-Mexico border. This is the most politically-savvy caravan that Mexico has seen.

Caravans that come into Mexico happen quite frequently, once or twice a week or more. Most of the time, these caravans are a political statement to detract attention both to the media that the -- you know, there's a dire situation in Central America and, as they cross through Mexico, these -- these migrants run a lot of risks.

So what's interesting about this -- this group is that it's -- that makes it different from the other caravans from prior years. It is very politically savvy. It knows when to make a statement and it knows when to cross.

Now, I would say yesterday's, what we saw yesterday and the images that we see right now were very -- were planned. I mean, I think there is an intention to make a statement that will be reflected not only in the United States politically, but also here in Mexico. We're about to swear in a new president this Saturday.

So I would also say these -- there are desperate people in this group, yes, but this caravan is different in the sense that they are -- they are very politically savvy. They know how to make a statement.

CAMEROTA: Go ahead, John.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. I just say, you know, if they're so politically savvy, they would also recognize that they're doing a lot of Donald Trump's work for him by rushing the border.

Yes, the images of families being assaulted by tear gas offends folks' sensibility about America. But the narrative, this being peaceful asylum seekers, is undercut by that rush to the border. And we all know that this was pumped up as an election-eve issue by the president, which deployed troops to the border, which were not present.

And in many ways, the process worked here. These folks did not come inside. But if they're so politically savvy, they wouldn't be actually reinforcing the president's messaging in a way that actually is counter to what is presumably their cause.

CAMEROTA: David, here's what the president tweeted yesterday. He said, "It would be SMART if Mexico would stop the caravans long before they get to our southern border or if originating countries would not let them form. It is a way to get certain people out of the country and dump them in the U.S. no longer. Dems created this problem. No crossings!" Exclamation point.

There's not a single issue the president can't politicize, first of all. I mean, you know, so many Republicans and Democrats in the past have said this is a bipartisan problem. We have to figure it out. We need a bipartisan solution. That's not how the president -- President Trump feels, but to his point, should it be -- shouldn't it be the responsibility of Mexico to try to stave off these people coming and going before they get to the U.S.? DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, I think that's an

interesting question. And when the president raises an issue like this and confronts the Mexican government, he may get a response.

Now, Mexico has denied that there's a deal to keep asylum seekers in Mexico before they can come over for, you know, safety hearings and whatnot and get into an asylum process on the U.S. side of the border. They deny that there's been a deal. But it doesn't mean that they're not talking about it.

So if the president is putting more responsibility into Mexico's hands, that presumably, could be seen as a win for the United States, for the Trump administration. This is not a Democratic issue, and of course, President Trump is not acknowledging what the root cause is for these asylum seekers are -- which is poverty, political persecution and the like. And the big magnet that is the United States of America, for Mexicans, for others, in Central and South America. So that's a reality that he doesn't have much compassion about.

But I agree with John and Ana Maria. When you have a political statement being made, when you're rushing the border, there's going to be plenty of people who look at that and say, you know, "Look, we've got to have a border. We've got to have protections. We have to have laws." I think the president has some room to maneuver here.

BERMAN: Well, the flip side of that, John, and I am curious what you think about this. There's a picture of women and children being tear- gassed by U.S. border, and a lot of people will look at that picture and say, "Well, that's not what we want America to be, tear gas on children."

AVLON: Absolutely right. And I think that's what Ana Maria was referring to in terms of some of these photos being staged. I mean, those pictures are horrific. You don't want to see the United States tear-gassing children. And that does, I think, highlight the way that this debate has become so toxic and fear-driven on, you know, both sides. That is not the America we want to see at the border.

At the same time, bum-rushing the border is not what we want to see from ordinarily asylum seekers. I think we've got to ratchet down the rhetoric around this and actually be focused more on sustainable solutions.

And I'll say one thing about the president saying that he reached a deal with Mexico last week. AMLO, the incoming president, saying, in fact, not the case. There is no deal to have migrants be detained within Mexico. So that, you know, he may have some leverage. He may believe he has some leverage in this, but that breakthrough that was apparently pushed by the president, not true.

CAMEROTA: Go ahead, Ana Maria.

SALAZAR: Let me -- let me just add to that. There has clearly been conversations between both countries, both the incoming government, Mexican government and the current government, which has literally hours away before they leave, about this issue.

The fact is that, for example, on the Tijuana border, you have hundreds of Haitians that are basically -- just have been sitting there, waiting for months and years, trying to get into the United States. You have Central Americans who have been trying to get into the United States through this process.

So in a sense, it is already happening that Mexico is keeping these people on this side of the border until there is a resolution, although there may not be a formal agreement to do that.

There's more reporting coming out today in different media groups here in Mexico, that there is an agreement with the incoming government, between Trump and the White House and incoming government, to basically create a major program in Central America where the U.S. would invest millions of dollars in order to try to stop these people from coming in, or these migrants from coming into Mexico, trying to cross Mexico to go up to the border.

So there is a negotiation taking place. The problem is the way that Donald Trump is using both this issue: these migrants crossing in, the fact that you do have a group of this caravan, like I said, very politically savvy, using this in terms of either, you know, supporting Donald Trump's view of the world or what other political issues that are taking place in Mexico and in Central America, because this is not only the United States.

And it's all happening at a time where Donald Trump and the White House makes these statements that an agreement had been reached. Of course, the Mexican government, the incoming Mexican government would have to say there is no agreement, because they're not in power yet. So I think we have to wait to see what's going to happen next week.

But let me just say this. With -- these images that we're seeing probably are not going to go away for the next couple of weeks until some type of solution is reached. And of course, there is a rally today taking place in the United States, a political rally, to support this Mississippi candidate, and it's going to be a hate fest. They're going to use those images to support Donald Trump's view of the world in regards to migrants and what's happening on the border.

[06:10:06] CAMEROTA: But David, isn't it so interesting what Ana Maria just said, that if there is some sort of deal, it needs to include investing in the home countries? I mean, cutting foreign aid, as we have to Guatemala or Honduras, is not the answer for ameliorating the problems there. And so that would be interesting if that was part of the conversation of how to fix this.

GREGORY: Well, for a couple of reasons. The chief of staff, John Kelly, who has spoken in years past about these kinds of migrations, has talked about the lure of the United States for migrants, whether it's political, economic. And in a separate context, he was talking about drugs flowing up from Central and South America because of the demand in the United States.

But there's no question that the administration, this administration, is going to talk about closing the border. It's going to talk about keeping migrants out. It's going to talk about other countries bearing the responsibility. Those are the points of emphasis for President Trump, who wants to be a strong man on immigration.

But if it comes with the appropriate investment in Central America, it will be a more constructive solution. He may not talk about it that way. He'll find ways to define victory. What's most important is that some kind of solution is actually a more constructive solution.

BERMAN: You know, John, it's interesting. The political debate over the next eight days might be about the wall. It might be about the wall, because the president is suggesting he might shut down the government if he doesn't get wall funding in this next budget deal. I think December 8 is the deadline for that. I'm not sure a wall would make any difference there. It doesn't stop asylum seekers from wanting to come to the United States.

CAMEROTA: We don't need -- doesn't this prove the system worked? Nobody actually breached the border. They shut down the border. They arrested 39 people who participated. They're deporting them. Our system actually -- this illustration, as unfortunate as it was, shows that our system currently works. Nobody got across.

AVLON: Yes, that's an important reality check. The border was not broken.

But I think to John's point, look, this is happening in Tijuana. The borders, you know, they're talking about building a wall across the contiguous border in places that very few people do cross.

Separate debate: the issue of the funding is one where president and the Congress have kicked the can, and now the president, because of the political pressure and these sorts of images and incidents, could very well tell his Republican colleagues -- Remember, unified control of government. We've never had a president and a Congress get in a potential shutdown war when they have unified control of government -- over funding for the wall. Because with Democrats coming to the House, it's going to be much trickier going forward.

So watch the next two weeks. All this political pressure is going to be coming together. And you could very well see not just brinksmanship but a shutdown of the government over this issue, finally.

CAMEROTA: All right. Ana Maria, David, John, thank you very much.

Now to this: a travel nightmare for people trying to make their way home after the holiday weekend. A winter storm is wreaking havoc on travel plans. More than 1,700 flights have been canceled while 17,000 were delayed because of bad weather. Millions of Americans are under a blizzard warning this morning.

CNN meteorologist Chad Myers has our forecast. What are you seeing, Chad?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Still snowing in Chicago, and an awful lot of planes are going to be canceled there. Already 300 today. Five hundred canceled across the country, and it's, what, 6 a.m. in the morning.

Here you go. The numbers from Iowa, Nebraska, Missouri, all the way through Illinois, and it's still snowing in many spots. It will be a big line between the rain and the snow right across the Detroit metro area. It will continue to snow until about noon in Chicago today.

But air travel will be significantly affected. The low goes by in south of Buffalo and eventually on up even into almost making snow in Montreal there.

But this is the story of the day, is how slow it's going to be to get through Chicago either on 94, the 80-90, Indiana toll road; all going to be a mess if not, at times, shut down.

The airports -- New York City, Chicago -- at least 90-minute delays if your plane is leaving at all; and the snow continues to pile up. South towns in Buffalo will pick up a lot of snow all the way up into parts of Vermont, New Hampshire, still snowing down to the south. It will be all rain -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Chad Myers, thanks very much for that.

John Avlon just said O'Hare is evil, which puts it in perspective. The airport is trying to get you. "Happy Thanksgiving, I'm coming for you," signed O'Hare International Airport.

AVLON: That's the way I feel.

BERMAN: All right. Conflict at sea. The Russians open fire on Ukrainian ships. Are those nations teetering toward a dangerous all- out shooting war, and how will the United States respond? You'll be surprised -- or maybe not -- about what the president has said about this. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:18:15] BERMAN: All right. Breaking overnight, the most dangerous conflict between Russia and Ukraine in years. Ukraine says Russia opened fire on and seized three of its naval vessels. The United Nations Security Council will hold an emergency meeting in just hours.

Let's get to our Matthew Chance, live in Moscow with the breaking details. Matthew, what you have learned?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the stakes, John, first of all in this conflict, are incredibly high. Already since 2014, thousands of people have been killed in the war that's taken place between Russia and its proxies in Eastern Ukraine and the Ukrainian state.

It's been relatively subdued over the past year or so, but it threatens to come back with a vengeance now with this latest incident that took place over the weekend, involving Russian ships firing on Ukrainian vessels in the Strait of Kerch, which is a strategic waterway that separates Russia from the Crimean Peninsula.

Russia now controls that access point. It's sort of a chokehold on the seaways around there. The Ukrainian Navy say six of its sailors were injured when Russia fired on three of its vessels. Russian special forces then were deployed to seize control of those vessels. They boarded them, as well, and have taken them into custody. We don't know the whereabouts of the crew members on those vessels or whether they're in Russian detention, as well, but the ships themselves certainly are and have been pictured in a dock in the Crimean Peninsula, which is, of course, in Russian control.

U.N. Security Council is holding a special session later on today in New York to discuss this development. There have been calls by the NATO military alliance for restraint and de-escalation. The European Union has said the same.

[06:20:03] Russia, for its part, says this is a provocation. Russian media saying this is all about derailing the meeting between President Trump and Vladimir Putin scheduled to take place at the G-20 summit later this month.

CAMEROTA: OK, Matthew. Thank you very much for all of that reporting.

We're back now with John Avlon and David Gregory, as well as -- I don't know. Is Phil Mudd here?

Hi!

BERMAN: Hi. Special guest. Well done. It's our surprise Phil Mudd.

CAMEROTA: Parachuting in remotely. Yes.

BERMAN: He's a secret guy. He operates on a whole different level.

CAMEROTA: It was secret in the prompter. He's so secret, he won't even let me know in the teleprompter.

Hi. Great to see all of you. David Gregory, on the day that the Russian military makes this move and opens fire on these Ukrainian military ships, seizing three of them. President Trump tweets, "Europe has to pay their fair share for military protection. The European Union for many years has taken advantage of us on trade, and then they don't live up to military commitment through NATO. Things must change fast."

Is that the right message?

GREGORY: Well, if you're Vladimir Putin, you take some comfort in that, because you know, this provocation on the part of Putin and his views generally, going back to 2014 about Ukraine, are linked to how he feels about NATO and the expansion of NATO and how it compromises Russia territorially, and how it's seen as an aggressive move on part of the United States to isolate Russia.

So he likes to see President Trump start to question NATO members, whether they're paying their fair share. It doesn't project a picture of unity. I think in the end, the U.S. administration is going to do everything it can to tamp down any tension between Ukraine and Russia. It's the last thing that -- that anybody wants.

But it also -- it still weakens the president's hand to try to talk to Putin about backing off on Ukraine. We've seen successive administrations now going back to President Bush who were unable to stop Putin from these kinds of provocations with regard to Crimea and Ukraine. This is a -- this is a pretty central belief on his part, and the international community is at least just trying to keep it under wraps.

BERMAN: To be clear, he's done nothing so far to try to tamp down this conflict. He's made no statement directly about it, other than this somewhat oblique statement to Europe that we're not there for you, unless you pay. I think it's an extraordinary statement here, as Russia is expanding power in a 19th Century-ish conflict over a waterway.

You know, Phil Mudd, this seems part and parcel to me of messages that the president has been sending for the last several months, whether it be about Jamal Khashoggi to Saudi Arabia. Now it's to Russia over this armed conflict over a waterway in the Azov Sea. How do you see it?

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Well, I think -- I think the interesting piece is not just the messaging coming from the president. It's the consistency we've seen during his administration about divides between what he says aggressively, presumably to talk to his base in America, and what subordinates say.

For example, on Jamal Khashoggi, the statements out of Vice President Pence have been much different, and the statements out of Republicans in Congress have been much different than what the president is saying.

In this case, I'd be looking at what Nikki Haley is saying. Man, she has been pretty impressive. I think at the U.N., she's been out saying, "Look, we've got a meeting this morning at the U.N." That's exactly the right message. The message should be de-escalation. There is no upside for the United States in seeing this one ratchet up. So look at what she says in contrast to what the president says. It's been consistent for 22 months now. He says something aggressive, and his administration says, "Pull back."

AVLON: Yes, but that raises a couple obvious problems. First of all, if it's a continuation of the game of contain the president, why does the president's impulses to Putin need to be contained? Why does he keep soft-pedaling any response that normally an American president would take great issue with?

Look, we all learned with Russia and Crimea the danger of buying into these muddy waters and sort of the Russian line. We need to call aggression aggression. The president has no impulse to do that.

Instead, he's not only, you know, threatening the E.U., and by implication, NATO, at a time when Russia's being aggressive, but add to that his previous statements, for example, about Montenegro. And look at the way that not just the message the Saudis got in the wake of Khashoggi, but the way that Putin may now feel that he can do virtually whatever he wants, because who's going to stop him. Who's going to stop him over the Baltic states? Who's going to stop him on these issues on their border? And that's why this is so dangerous heading into the G-20.

GREGORY: Right, but let's remember, that he has held that since President Bush was president. This is not a new phenomenon with President Trump.

And I do agree. I think watch what the administration does on this, not what President Trump says. There's no question that the appropriate response, whatever your views about NATO as the American president, is to say that, as a body, NATO will stand against this. And there is a difference between threatening the Baltic states and threatening Crimea, threatening the Ukraine.

But this has been -- this has been something that has been accepted by the international community, even though they've complained about it since Putin did it.

[06:25:07] CAMEROTA: On that point, you know, when I do these panels with Trump voters, they have raised exactly what you guys were talking about and said that it makes them uncomfortable, this disparity between what some in the administration say and what the president tweets. And they have thought who's running the place? That's one direct quote, actually, from them.

Let's move on to Robert Mueller --

BERMAN: Or maybe not.

CAMEROTA: OK. Let's continue --

BERMAN: It's semi-related. That segue, yes.

CAMEROTA: Let's segue to Robert Mueller. Phil Mudd, all the Mueller watchers, the dates that the Mueller watchers have given for what would be the perfect day to come out with his report have come and gone.

And so here we still are. I don't know if that means that Mueller has more than people are anticipating or less or what?

GREGORY: Or we're just impatient.

MUDD: Let me be clear. Let's be up front here on CNN. I was wrong on this, as well. I thought this would shut down last summer.

There was one final piece that we saw, and that's the president's written response to the special counsel's questions. I don't know how Robert Mueller goes up to the microphone and says, "We're all done," without saying, "We made a good-faith attempt to get the president, at least on paper, to answer questions. And at this point, your guess is as good as mine. I know Robert

Mueller personally. I used to work for him. He does not like sitting around and watching paint dry. So I -- if you've closed out the presidential questions, I've got to ask the question, who else is left out there to talk to? I would -- I've got to believe this is closing down pretty soon.

BERMAN: We've got Jerome Corsi, a man whom you know, John, from your writing about wing nuts, who is the definition of a wing nut, you know, in your book, as defined in his book, out there saying he's involved in plea negotiations --

AVLON: Yes.

BERMAN: -- with the Mueller team. That would be --

CAMEROTA: And Roger Stone, right?

BERMAN: Well --

CAMEROTA: Don't we also have that reporting? Or no?

BERMAN: Stone is not involved in a plea deal. The plea deal might be to sing about Stone.

AVLON: And Corsi and Stone are all sort of in the same ecosystem.

That said, you know, Corsi first comes out as a birther; and he's in that right-wing fringe festival that gets tied up on the periphery of the Trump campaign. But presumably, of course, he's a peripheral figure in the larger questions that Mueller has been tasked to investigate. So that's one of the interesting questions. I think that's --

BERMAN: Unless -- unless he knows about WikiLeaks.

AVLON: And that's the big question.

BERMAN: Unless he knows about WikiLeaks, which gets to the Phil Mudd question, is what else is there out there if Robert Mueller is going to issue indictments about WikiLeaks, connected to WikiLeaks? And maybe he already did. Look, maybe Julian Assange was indicted over the summer, and it's been under seal since then. But it could be in Corsi world.

AVLON: Right. And that -- that is one of the things we've seen, is the questions about Roger Stone, bragging publicly that he has information from WikiLeaks, then saying no, he was just being Roger Stone. You can't trust him, no matter what he says, and then whether other people in Stone's orbit had been acting as intermediaries. That's the question, given the question of whether Russia handed over the information to WikiLeaks to be released. Presumably, that is what Mueller's looking into, but is that the heart of the investigation. You know --

CAMEROTA: David. AVLON: I don't think we do know, but what did folks know when?

CAMEROTA: David Gregory.

GREGORY: And this -- well, the president's answers on anything related to before he was president, whether it was the meeting at Trump Tower or whether it was the hacking of DNC e-mails is one strain as separate from his conduct as president firing Jim Comey, discussions with Don McGahn, wanting to fire Mueller, any of these things that may come up. These are the two separate areas.

You'd have to believe that Mueller is done at least with the presidential questions, but we don't know which direction potential indictments are going and what it all adds up to. What is clear, you heard Alan Dershowitz say on television yesterday, his understanding that the administration is preparing is response, and there's no question it will come out, right, right as Mueller's does. That's the show we'll be watching.

BERMAN: And Alisyn, of course, you look at all this and say, "What does any of it matter?" What does breakfast matter if, you know, the climate is going to be next to --

CAMEROTA: Yes, the earth is, apparently, coming to an end in 2015, and so -- I mean, I'm sorry, 2050. We have a little bit more time.

AVLON: Yes, a little more time.

CAMEROTA: I'm sorry. So we have a little bit more time than three years ago.

AVLON: Have that bacon, egg and cheese while you can.

CAMEROTA: Listen, I'm glad you guys are joking about it. But on Friday, generally considered a news blackout day, the administration released the first report of President Trump's time in the White House, and it is dire. OK? It is very ominous of what's happening to the climate.

I'll read a portion of it: "Rising temperatures, extreme heat. Drought, wildfire, heavy downpours are expected to increasingly disrupt agriculture productivity in the United States. Expected increases in challenges to livestock health, declines in crop yield and quality, changes in extreme events in the U.S. and abroad threaten rural livelihoods, sustainable food security and price stability." All right?

So this is about farmers, OK. Just this passage. This is just one little passage in the 1,000 pages of report. But this isn't a political question. This is an existential question.

GREGORY: Right. And I think, Alisyn, what's important about that is we know.