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New Day

Border Patrol Fire Tea Gas at Migrants Trying to Cross U.S.- Mexico Border; Russia Reopens Strait after Firing on 3 Ukrainian Navy Ships; Winter Storm Snarls Holiday Travel. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired November 26, 2018 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you see these types of images, it bolsters the president's standpoint. We clearly do not have control.

[07:00:10] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These people are fleeing violence. Many of these individuals are women and children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have no faith in this president. This is about politics for him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Ukrainian navy is accusing Russia of opening fire and taking three of its vessels.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Moscow claims that the Ukrainians were acting in a dangerous manner.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This latest incident isn't just about a show of force. It could be an economic strangulation tactic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This could be a major escalation in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. Here's our news. There's been a dramatic development in the escalating border debate. Border Patrol agents used tear gas on Central Americans seeking asylum, including women and children, during an incident near one of the world's busiest border crossings.

Mexico says 39 people were arrested after a peaceful protest devolved into chaos. Officials say many migrants rushed the border from the Mexican side in Tijuana, overwhelming police blockades and forcing a border shutdown. The San Ysidro port is now back open for vehicle and pedestrian traffic, but it was shut down for hours on Sunday.

BERMAN: So moments ago, President Trump threatened to shut down the border permanently if this incident or ones like it continue. He also used this incident to argue for his border wall. Although it's hard to see what difference a wall would have made in this situation.

Let's get the very latest from the scene. CNN's Miguel Marquez, live in Tijuana, Mexico, with the very latest -- Miguel.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Now, I want to show you exactly where this border crossing is. This is the -- the area that you enter for the foot bridge, the pedestrian bridge to the U.S. side. This is where the 5,000. It's open now. Thousands of citizens from Tijuana use this border crossing every day to go and work and go to school in the U.S.

This is where the 5,000 immigrants who came up in the caravan where they line up here every day, many of them waiting for their number, trying to get asylum, essentially, that first process -- that first step in the process for getting asylum begins right here at this border crossing.

So yesterday, there was a -- there was a friendly demonstration, a friendly demonstration. They came up here, emboldened. Many of these -- the migrants in the caravan tried to, basically, rush the border.

You can see this. This is a car bridge up here. They went under that car bridge, overwhelming several Mexican police barricades and then up toward several areas of the border. That's when members of the Customs and Border Patrol fired tear-gas canisters and pepper bullets or pepper balls at them.

Many of these individuals were women, children, some men. CPB also says that they are throwing projectiles at some of their officers, as well. They shut the border for several hours. Things are back to normal right now. We've crossed both ways already from Mexico into the U.S. and the U.S. into Mexico. Everything is back to normal right now but clearly, tensions much higher today.

Back to you guys.

CAMEROTA: OK, Miguel. Thank you very much.

Let's talk about this. We want to bring in CNN chief legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. We want to bring in host of CNN's "SMERCONISH," Michael Smerconish; and CNN senior political reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson.

Nia -- Nia, I want to start with you, because as unfortunate as this incident is, I'm not sure that it proves that we need a border wall. In fact, it's the opposite. The border worked. Border security here worked.

So however many people rushed the border, 39 were arrested. They are going to be deported. No one breached the border. So shutting down the border worked, and it also proves that we don't need -- I think, a boarder wall, because the migrants made -- went out of their way to go to the Tijuana entrance, because the rest of the boarder was considered too hazardous, too dangerous to watch. So they went extra hundreds of miles to the port of entry of Tijuana, because they considered that the easiest.

So in other words, the system is actually working, but you know the politics better than us. And so how will this play out over the next two weeks as we lead up to a government shutdown?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, you see already that the president is using this incident at the border there to show what he thinks is this violent band of migrants who want to overtake the border there, who want to throw rocks and who, at all costs, need to be kept out of this country.

Remember, he also has essentially authorized the military down there to use lethal force. The military wasn't involved in this. It was, obviously, border control agents.

But what's also clear is that there aren't any easy solutions to this, right? If you think about what John Kelly has talked about and why this problem exists, it exists partly, at least, because of America's appetite for cocaine, for drugs. Central America is very much a key thoroughfare for drugs coming up from South America, going through Central America and Mexico, and that's the way that he has framed it.

Oftentimes in our conversations about this, we don't talk about the reasons why these folks are fleeing these very violent communities. It's because they're overrun by drug lords, some of them Mexican drug lords who have come down from -- down into these regions and are fighting over turf and real kind of drug war down there, so that's a real problem. I

So it doesn't seem like any of these governments, being -- be it Central American governments, which are destabilized for all sorts of reasons, the Mexican government, which is incoming. A new government coming in December 1. And then the American administration here, as well, really thinking about solutions, which won't even address the real problem.

And as you say, this border wall, it doesn't seem like that would even work. These folks are in Mexico because there's this backlog, right, in terms of them applying for asylum. They're there for months and months, because there's just a backlog and not enough folks to hear their cases.

So this is a problem that will likely be worse and has been worsening over the last decades. If you go back and look at the reporting about this, this has been something that's been building for years and years.

BERMAN: Michael Smerconish, it's something of a Rorschach test, though, right? Because people will look at the picture and say tear gas on women and children? Is that what America wants to be?

The flip side of that is 5,000, maybe more, migrants in this so-called caravan in Tijuana now. Five hundred of them did rush the border, which is a picture that President Trump will look at that and say that's what we need to stop, too.

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST, "SMERCONISH": Right. And I haven't looked this morning, but my hunch is that, on a different cable outlet, it's all about migrants who are lawless and are rushing our border. So people will look and see in this what they want to for their own political objectives.

Here's what I'm thinking of today. I'm thinking of the speech, the interview that was recently given by Hillary Clinton to "The Guardian," where she delivered a warning to European leaders and said, "Look, you need to send a message that we can no longer provide refuge and support the way that we have in the past to migrant communities," because unless we send that message, this issue will continue to give fuel to right-wing populist movements.

And then comes this, and I think that the political gain here will be the president's. I think that his base will remain steadfast in the face of that footage. And it may even be a catalyst, if he'll give on DREAMers to get some wall funding, which he hasn't been able to do, if he can line it up in the next 39 days, which is all that he's got on the clock with a Republican-controlled both the House and the Senate.

I think this is crunch time is what I'm trying to say.

CAMEROTA: Well, even before those 39 days, Jeffrey, there could be a government shutdown. And the president has threatened to use the issue of his funding for a border wall to shut down the government, if need be.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: He has said that, and he may well. You know, his base is going to support him, no matter what. His base wasn't good enough to get him control of the United States House of Representatives, so I mean, the idea that his base is going to control the outcome here, I think, is not really accurate.

What -- whether -- he does not need to -- he -- if he tries to shut down the government, I don't think that will be a popular move over this wall. The wall is unpopular. I mean, yes, his base likes the wall, but other than that, shutting down the government over this wall, I don't see why that is something Democrats should fear. Because most people don't want the wall. And as this -- as this incident illustrates, the wall wouldn't make any difference.

If you listen to Republicans senators over the weekend. They're the ones squirming a little bit over the idea of a shutdown. Joni Ernst, senator from Iowa, was like, "I don't really want that. Let's not shut this down over that.

Jeffrey Toobin, if I can change subjects, because also this weekend --

TOOBIN: Yes.

BERMAN: -- we heard from some legal minds, including Harvard Law professor emeritus Alan Dershowitz, whom you studied under.

TOOBIN: I'm -- I'm a great fan.

BERMAN: Under his tutelage, you became the lawyer that you are today. We've all been talking about when the Mueller report will come out. Well, Professor Dershowitz has an idea of the impact it will have when it does. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN DERSHOWITZ, HARVARD LAW PROFESSOR EMERITUS: I think the report is going to be devastating to the president. And I know that the president's team is already working on a response to the report. And so at some point, when the report is made public, and that's a very hard question, considering the new attorney general who has the authority to decide when and under what circumstances to make it public, it will be made public probably with a response alongside.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Jeffrey, what does Alan Dershowitz know?

[07:10:00] TOOBIN: Nothing. I mean, he has no inside information here. I mean, Alan is a wonderful person. But he's, like, a retired law professor. I don't know why his opinion matters more than anyone else's.

He is -- I mean, there is going to be a report. I have every expectation that, when the report comes out, the response to it will be the same as the response to every development during the Trump administration.

Forty percent of the people will think it's a big nothing burger. They'll support the president. Fifty-five percent will think it's terrible and incriminating, and we'll be exactly where we were after Charlottesville after the Helsinki press conference after -- after every major development, we think peoples' minds are going to change, and they're not going to.

CAMEROTA: Alan Dershowitz says definitively the report is going to be devastating for the president. You think that's just based on his hunch?

TOOBIN: Yes. I mean, Alan has a lot of opinions, and I think it will -- I mean, look, you don't write a report saying how wonderful the Trump administration is doing. I think, you know, it will be -- lay out -- at least the initial report will lay out the story of obstruction of justice involving the firing of Comey. But I don't think it will be any more devastating.

I mean, I just don't -- I think people are so locked in in their opinions on Donald Trump, that it will -- it will be a big news story, and then there will be a poll, and it will be the same poll that we see over and over again.

BERMAN: Michael, you spent a long time as a lawyer here. What lawyering do you see that Robert Mueller has left here?

SMERCONISH: Not much. I mean, I think that he was probably disappointed that, in the end, it was written interrogatories that he was able to get the president to respond, which don't, by definition, allow for follow-up. I think it was probably important to Mueller that he extend the opportunity for the president to be heard and for the president to then respond in kind. But it's not the same as a deposition. It's not the same as sitting there for hours on end and asking follow-up questions. Remember, that's exactly what got Bill Clinton in trouble 20 years ago was being subject to sworn verbal testimony.

I agree with Professor Dershowitz and with Jeffrey Toobin, I agree with Dershowitz, insofar as it won't be a sound bite. It will be the full story. And for those who are willing to dig deep, read in and understand totality of the circumstances, I think will be politically devastating for the president, regardless of whether there's a recommendation of charges.

But to Jeffrey's point, will minds change? Probably not.

SMERCONISH: But let's talk about that, Nia. Because what will Republicans do? If it's a nothing burger, fine, it's a nothing burger. We move on. The news cycle moves on. OK.

If it's devastating, as Dershowitz seems to be suggesting, from what he's imagining, what do Republicans do if this is a very damning report and implicates the president in something?

HENDERSON: I mean, obviously, the "impeachment" word comes into play here, and you'll have the House, obviously, in Democrats' control and they could file charges of impeachment. It will be tried, obviously, in the Senate. Unlikely anything moves forward in the Senate, right?

They've got to get two-thirds, and it's unlikely that, if you're Mitch McConnell, this is something you want to do. So -- so you know, I agree with Jeffrey again here. The idea that minds are going to be changed, the ideas that suddenly, Republicans are going to be so horrified by something that comes out of this administration that they're going to behave differently towards this president, it seems unlikely.

I think it's a real steep hill for Republicans the climb to suggest that they're going to do something in terms of impeach -- impeaching this president, throwing him out of office, with anything that comes out of this Mueller report.

TOOBIN: Very quickly.

BERMAN: I just ask this and then you can answer how you want. Jerome Corsi, though, this man who may or may not have been involved with Roger Stone, with information maybe or not about WikiLeaks, he's saying he may or may not be involved in plea negotiations right now. How does that factor in? If we learn about a plea deal this week, doesn't make a report as likely.

TOOBIN: There will be a report. The timing is a real mystery. I mean, I think it will be -- other than being sometime in 2019, I don't know -- you know, when at all -- when it will be.

The significance of the whole Corsi/Roger Stone part of the investigation is that it establishes a possible link between the hacking of the e-mails, the Democrats' e-mails and the Trump campaign. It raises the possibility of proving collusion between Russia, Russian entities like WikiLeaks and the Trump campaign.

There -- other than the meeting in Trump Tower, there has not been that sort of nexus established. That's why that's significant.

But as for impeachment, let me just say, I've interviewed Nancy Pelosi about this. I've interviewed Jerry Nadler, who is going to be the chairman of the Judiciary Committee. They are not going to do impeachment, as long as getting 67 senators in the Senate is impossible. It's currently impossible. It's likely to stay impossible. They are not doing impeachment.

[07:15:03] BERMAN: Jeffrey, Michael, Nia, thank you all very much this morning.

New this morning: the most dangerous standoff between Russia and Ukraine in years. Ukraine says Russia opened fire on and seized three of its naval vessels. The U.N. Security Council will hold an emergency meeting in just hours.

Let's go to our Barbara Starr, live at the Pentagon. This was actual shooting, Barbara. This was significant.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: This is a major escalation at sea, John. And this morning the ramifications are reverberating across Eastern Europe and all the way to Washington, because the question, of course, now is what happens next. Some of the details still being sorted out.

Ukraine says Russia fired on three of its boats. The fate of the crews and those boats is uncertain at this hour. This is a key waterway that has been in dispute. Russia then shutting the waterway down to commercial shipping, and that act alone takes you right to where the U.S. does not want to be.

The U.S. military doesn't like uncertainty, doesn't like surprises from the Russians, doesn't like to see waterways shut down.

So now the question is what will the Trump administration do about all of this, if anything? NATO is holding meetings. The U.N., the E.U. speaking out against this.

For the United States, the problem is this. President Trump has long criticized President Obama, as you remember, for not doing anything when Russia went into Crimea. All of this in the same area.

President Trump will have to decide what he wants to do and will President Putin even pay any attention to it? Does Putin see any -- any strength in the Trump administration's Russia policy right now? He sees vulnerabilities. President Trump even tweeting again that NATO allies are not spending enough on defense.

So when Putin looks at all of this and sees -- sees the U.S. and tries to decide if he's going to pull back, it seems very unlikely at the moment. This is going to try to be worked in diplomatic circles, and Putin is going to have to believe that President Trump is intending to do anything about all of this -- Alisyn. CAMEROTA: Barbara, thank you very much for all of the reporting from

the Pentagon this morning.

Also this morning, roughly 10 million Americans are under a blizzard warning. There's a powerful winter storm. It has forced airlines to cancel more than 1,000 flights today.

CNN meteorologist Chad Myers has our forecast.

The number of flights being canceled keeps going up, Chad.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It does. A thousand flights worldwide, 500 flights inside the U.S. proper, and the numbers continue to rise.

Colorado picked up two feet of snow in the ski resorts. Then that storm moved into Nebraska, Iowa, and now it's in Illinois, right over Chicago.

Here are some of the latest numbers. The snow keeps piling up, as well.

Chicago really is the bullseye for delays today: 300 and more and counting as we go on. The cancelations are keeping the delays down. But if there are no flights, then they are not delayed. They are just canceled. So that's how you win/lose that battle.

Rain across parts of the East Coast. It's warm there. Now, it is going to be windy behind the storm, and it's going to get much colder for Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo and the like. But it stays warm, at least, for one more day for New York City, Philadelphia, D.C., where it's all rain today. Tomorrow it will be much, much colder. Literally 30 degrees colder in some of these places.

Airports are going to be a mess today. One to two hours if you even get a flight, because the snow is still coming down and is still piling up.

Great news for all the great ski resorts, John. I mean, I know you really don't want to ski in New Hampshire, but they got a couple of feet in Colorado in places where people do want to go have fun.

BERMAN: I grew up skiing in Vermont. I don't understand why you go negative there, just because you're upset there's a snowstorm in the Midwest, you have to go negative on me on Vermont?

MYERS: Hey, you threw shade on Vermont the other day. I just want you to know that they are still enjoying this.

BERMAN: I was merely suggesting that Vermont wants a snowstorm. The rest of us might not just yet. It's a little early, Chad. Chad Myers, thank you for that. I appreciate it.

CAMEROTA: OK. Moving on --

BERMAN: The Russians. Yes. Some serious news here. The Russians open fire on Ukrainian vessels. Are those nations

teetering toward a dangerous all-out shooting war? President Trump also vocal on the clashes at the border but where does she stand on Russian aggression? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:23:18] BERMAN: A dangerous conflict between Russia and Ukraine after Ukraine says Russia opened fire on and seized three of its naval vessels. Joining us now is Democratic Senator Ben Cardin of Maryland. He's a senior member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Senator Cardin, thanks so much for being with us. My question to you this morning is why does Vladimir Putin think he can get away with this?

SEN. BEN CARDIN (D), MARYLAND: Well, first it's good to be with you. Look, President Putin will do -- go as far as the free world will let him go. He's seen very little consequence to taking over Crimea. There still has not been a strong reaction to his campaign in Ukraine.

So now he's affecting the shipping channel that's critically important for the Ukraine. And he expects that there will be a very timid response by the west. So he's testing again. He'll go as far as we'll let him go. And he's seen with President Trump that President Trump has not taken direct action against Russia in regards to Ukraine.

BERMAN: So the president has not responded directly to this.

However, yesterday, he did come out with this statement: "Europe has to pay their fair share for military protection. The European Union, for many years, has taken advantage of us on trade, and they don't live up to their military commitment through NATO. Things must change fast!"

So to come out with that response after Russia fires on Ukrainian ships, what message does that send?

CARDIN: Well, Mr. Putin's objective is to weaken the west, to weaken the western alliance. So when the president challenges NATO and our -- and the commitment to NATO, it's falling right into Mr. Putin's hand by weakening the transatlantic partnership, weakening the E.U., weakening NATO. All that is part of Mr. Putin's game plan to strengthening strengthen Russia's influence in the region.

[07:25:06] BERMAN: Do you think President Trump should cancel his planned sideline chat with Vladimir Putin at the G-20?

CARDIN: I think, if he has that chat, it should be very much focused on Ukraine. It should be focused on what Russia is doing. The president has to do a very transparent standing up to Mr. Putin as to what he's doing and making it clear there will be consequences unless he backs off these aggressive actions. That's the only way that such a meeting should take place. BERMAN: Do you think Putin at this point thinks he can do whatever he wants with impunity, walk all over Europe, walk over U.S. interests, if it is still in the U.S. interests to protect Ukraine?

CARDIN: I do. I think that he challenged us in the 2016 elections, and he saw with Mr. Trump that he could get away with that. He has challenged us in Ukraine, and he's seen with President Trump's response so far, that he can continue to do that. He has been able to interfere in the unity in Europe, and again, Mr. Trump has fallen right into that type of strategy. So yes, I think he believes that Mr. Trump will not take action against him.

BERMAN: One of the things President Trump likes to point out, though, is that Russia seized Ukraine under President Obama. And the reaction from the Obama administration to that, he says, was not particularly strong. And President Trump also says, for instance, he has given some lethal aid to the Ukrainians.

CARDIN: Under President Obama, we were able to get unified sanctions against Russia for its invasion in Ukraine. E.U. followed us. We had strong sanctions in place. It was affecting Russia's economy. They paid a price for that.

Since President Trump has taken office, all we hear is glowing comments about President Putin by President Trump. So he has not at all stood up to what Mr. Trump -- Mr. Putin has done in Ukraine.

BERMAN: I want to show you if I can -- or talk about the pictures we've seen over the last 24 hours at the southern U.S. border with Mexico in Tijuana where some 500 migrants from Central America ran towards the border. There was tear-gas used to push them back. Tear gas, some people note, on women and children. What do you see here?

CARDIN: This is horrible. This is -- we have -- the humanitarian problem at our border. President Trump has argued that our immigration system needs to be fixed. Yet for the last two years under his presidency, controlling both the House and the Senate, the Republicans, they have not taken any action to improve our immigration system.

Instead, they put all their weight behind building a $28 billion wall that the experts tell us will do very little to protect our security at the border.

So the circumstances, you have people who are fleeing horrible circumstances in their own country. Many fear their own lives. They have legitimate concerns about their safety. They want to seek asylum in the United States. There's a process that needs to be followed for that. The Trump administration is not following those -- those guidelines.

So they're making the circumstance worse. And here we're looking at children get -- being subject to tear gas. That's the United States causing that. That's outrageous.

BERMAN: That's the United States causing that? Because I think people, other people will look at that and say these are 500 migrants who broke the law by rushing the border, by storming that wall there? Don't they have responsibility?

CARDIN: There's a better -- there's a better way to handle this. The United States has caused -- the Trump policies has caused anxiety at the border. There's an orderly process that should have been used. Should we fix our immigration system? Absolutely. But this administration has made no effort to fix our immigration system.

BERMAN: But again, you say President Trump has caused this. Those migrants, the some 5,000 migrants, many of them at a stadium, they're the ones who chose to march up from Central America. They're waiting at that stadium now. Those 500 migrants are the ones that chose to rush the border.

What is the right response if you have hundreds of people running toward the border like that?

CARDIN: The Trump -- the Trump administration illegally has changed the asylum rules. People who have legitimate reasons to escape persecution should be able to have their case heard here in the United States in an orderly way. That's being denied by the Trump administration.

The Trump administration took children away from their parents at our border, and that circumstance has still not been fixed, even though there's a court order to that effect. In the eyes of the international community, the United States is certainly not a leader in what we should be doing in regards to people fleeing danger.

BERMAN: Just very quickly: The Trump administration suggesting it's working out a deal with Mexico to allow asylum seekers to apply for asylum but stay in Mexico while they wait. Would you support that? C

CARDIN: Well, I would like to see asylum issues handled in the host country itself. So it would be better, if they're coming from Honduras to handle these issues in Honduras itself so that the individual knows before they travel. I think asking Mexico to take on those issues, that's something that needs to be negotiated.