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Leaked Draft Mueller Document; Manafort's Team Updated Trump's Lawyers; New Wave of Anti-Semitism; FDA Approves New Cancer Drug. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired November 28, 2018 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:32:17] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We are getting a clearer picture this morning of how much Special Counsel Robert Mueller may know about possible connections between the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks.

Joining me now is Ken Starr. He led the independent counsel investigation of President Bill Clinton.

Thank you so much for being with us, judge. I really appreciate it.

How upset would you be? Jerome Corsi leaked this draft plea deal agreement that was part of the communication between the special counsel's team and him. How upset would you be as an investigator and prosecutor if the person you were negotiating with released this to the press?

KEN STARR, LED INDEPENDENT COUNSEL INVESTIGATION ON PRESIDENT CLINTON: It's really poor form. Bad move. I would be pretty upset. You expect, with a cooperating witness, hey, we're now working together. I know it's a draft and so forth. Perhaps hadn't been finalized. But you just don't do that. It's really a bad move by Mr. Corsi and his lawyers.

BERMAN: And does it hurt the investigation? Does it compromise what Mueller and his team are trying to do?

STARR: Well, it could. It could have some effect. But, look, the team knows where it's going. I have no doubt about that. They've been in business for all these months. They've accumulated an enormously impressive record. The indictments especially. Some amongst months ago now the Russian individuals and so forth. They know a lot. Now the focus appears to be on the connects, WikiLeaks, with folks affiliated with the Trump Organization.

So, now, is this a material setback? Probably not. It's probably just an annoyance and, hey, we can't perhaps deal with this guy.

BERMAN: All right, sort of a magnified version of that is Paul Manafort, who pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate with the investigation. We know now the special counsel claims that Manafort was lying when he was talking to him after his guilty plea and that agreement is no longer valid they say. But we also learned from our reporting that Manafort's legal team has

been talking to the president's legal team, sharing information. How unusual is that after a guilty plea and a cooperation agreement to have lawyers talking like that?

STARR: Ordinarily, it's not a problem at all or an issue at all. It depends on what was in the plea agreement. But you would think that you're to cut off your communications with anyone else. You, at this stage, belong to the prosecutors. You're now inside the tent. You're part of the team. So to be leaking information to the lawyers outside the team, that's going to be very seriously and obviously is.

The more serious -- that's not good. But what's really serious is now for the team, the Mueller team, to have concluded that Paul Manafort has not been forthcoming, has been telling lies. And I'll tell you this, from my own experience, that's the one thing that prosecutors are going to tell a cooperating witness. We can only deal with the truth, whatever it is. If it exculpates, that's fine. What we can't deal with are lies. And that means the hammer is really coming to Paul Manafort.

[08:35:21] BERMAN: There are some people -- it doesn't look good for Paul Manafort. He's going to be in jail for some time unless he gets pardoned, which I suppose we can talk about in a second.

But there's some people suggesting that Manafort is working as some kind of mole for the president's legal team here if his lawyers are all of a sudden sharing everything that the Mueller team is asking.

STARR: If you're cooperating with the government, you should not be sharing information, unless it's been understood. Hey, you've got to be transparent. And if you're not transparent as that cooperating witness, the government is really going to come down really hard on you. So, yes, if he's been sharing very helpful information, just call it a bad move in terms of his situation, his, Paul Manafort's.

BERMAN: I want to ask you quickly about Matt Whitaker, who is the acting attorney general. Former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales wrote an op-ed in "The Washington Post" overnight suggesting that Whitaker might answer some of the questions and concerns about his appointment by doing two things. Number one, making a public proclamation that he would not interfere or intervene in the Mueller investigation. And, number two, slightly different, making a promise to the American people that he wouldn't share information about the investigation with the White House.

Do you think those steps would be helpful?

STARR: Enormously helpful. And I have the greatest respect for Judge Gonzales. First of all, under the regulations under which Bob Mueller was appointed, he is assured independence. So as a matter of law, Matt Whitaker, the acting attorney general, cannot interfere with the daily operations. That's clear. If he tried to step in and do that, and I don't think there's been any suggestion that he hasn't, he would be in violation of the law in the form of those regulations. The second thing is that Matt Whitaker, nonetheless, has a very

important role. And we haven't talked about the reporting. What's going to be in the Mueller report and so forth, because he's the key intermediate here. You see Mueller reports to the attorney general. His report is to go to the attorney general. Then the attorney general, under the regulations, has a separate information sharing arrangement with the Congress. So we're talking about the Mueller report and maybe there will be a Mueller report. It's the discretionary call. But it really is what the attorney general decides to make available to Congress.

BERMAN: Right. And you told us before you think that report should go public.

Ken Starr, always great to have you and your insight into all of this. Appreciate it.

STARR: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Anti-Semitic slurs and Nazi salutes on German streets. No, this is not 1940. It's 2018. These shocking scenes, next.

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[08:41:52] CAMEROTA: This morning we continue our series on the "State of Hate" in the U.S. and around the world. Today we head to Berlin, where decades after the Holocaust, Germany is fighting a new wave of anti-Semitism.

CNN's Clarissa Ward has more.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It's a sight you don't expect to see in Germany in 2018, hundreds of right wing extremists, many neo-Nazis, marching through the nation's capital.

Close the border, they shout! Resistance! Resistance!

The far right is enjoying a major comeback here, bringing with it a troubling rise in anti-Semitism. According to government figures, anti-Semitic attacks have increased by 20 percent in the last five years. The number of violent right wing extremists has gone up by nearly a third.

This man tells us shadowy cabal (ph) of globalists controls the world.

WARD (on camera): So when you talk about elites and you talk about finance, is that another way of saying Jewish people?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

WARD: Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

WARD: It is?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's all (INAUDIBLE).

WARD (voice over): Let me say it this way, the banking system for sure, banks, finance, the economy, mainly Jews, he says.

We had more questions, but our conversation was cut short by one of the marches organizers.

WARD (on camera): I think we have someone who's following us now.

WARD (voice over): Making anti-Semitic statements can be punishable under German law. But Christian Weisberger (ph) explains that neo- Nazis are finding new ways to express the same old hatred. And he should know. Weisberger used to be a right wing extremist himself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say that it is a form of anti-Semitism that disguises itself. And so they don't talk about the Jew anymore, they talk about the Zionists or the globalists or the bankers.

WARD: And they are growing more brazen. One man flashes a quick but unmistakable Nazi salute right in front of us, a crime in Germany.

It's important to remember, this isn't any country. This is Germany. Just a few hundred yards from the march is a memorial for the millions of Jews murdered here in the Second World War.

WARD (on camera): More than 70 years after the Holocaust, Germany is still haunted by its past. And yet remarkably, anti-Semitism is once again a growing problem here. With 50 percent of Germans agreeing that Jewish people are now at risk of racist violence.

WARD (voice over): The statistic comes from a CNN poll that also found half of Germans believe Jews are at risk of hate speech.

At Feinberg's Israeli restaurant, owner Yorai says he gets threats every day.

YORAI FEINBERG, RESTAURANT OWNER: From murder to I will break your knees, I will break your arms, I will break your teeth. They're very creative in everything. You know, all the options that they want to break.

[08:45:02] WARD: He was recently accosted by a man who told him Jews will end up in the gas chamber.

It's only about the money for you. You will pay, the man says to him. Nobody wants you hear.

WARD (on camera): He told you to go to the gas chambers or that you will go back to the gas chambers?

FEINBERG: Yes.

WARD: You've heard things like that before?

FEINBERG: I hear it very often.

WARD (voice over): Germany has acknowledged it has a problem, recently appointing its first anti-Semitism czar. Felix Kelin is focused on creating a nation-wide system for reporting anti-Semitic crimes and on improving integration of Germany's different communities.

FELXI KELIN, ANTI-SEMITISM COMMISSIONER, GERMANY: Anti-Semitism has always existed in Germany also after 1945 and now, though, it is showing its ugly face more openly. Things that people would never have dared to say in a -- in a bar or in a restaurant, in a private surrounding, do so now using social media or the net.

WARD: Germany has seen upticks in neo-Nazi activity before, most notably in the 1990s. While official statistics show that more than 90 percent of anti-Semitic attacks nation-wide are from the far right, there's a new element of concern for the Jewish community, the arrival of 1.4 million Muslim refugees in the last three years.

Doron Rubin is the leader of Germany's small orthodox Jewish community.

DORON RUBIN, HEAD OF BERLIN'S KAHAL ADASS JISROEL CONGREGATION: With a lot of coming -- the incoming of a lot of immigrants who have a different history and different background and especially obviously coming from the Middle East have -- also because of Israel, a different attitude towards Jews.

KELIN: When we talk about Muslim originated anti-Semitism, I think we can only win that battle with the help of the modern Muslims. Without them, this wouldn't be a successful fight.

WARD: Overall, the Jewish community remains anxious.

RUBIN: I think much more Jews now think again like can we call Germany our home and is it possible to live in this society? You can notice that the question that might not have been asked five years ago is starting to pop up again.

WARD: It's a question few in this country ever imagined would have to be asked again.

Clarissa Ward, CNN, Berlin.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh. I mean I think the question is, can awareness this time, can broadcasting it this time help stamp it out.

BERMAN: I hope people are paying attention, because it is happening.

CAMEROTA: Me too.

BERMAN: All right, there may be a new option for patients battling cancer. The big news from the FDA is next. CAMEROTA: But first, Deon Williams (ph) was a college football player with dreams of playing in the NFL, but history of concussions put his athletic career on a very different track. His story in today's "Turning Point."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEON WILLIAMS (ph): As a pit crew member you're expected to get it right every single time. The pressure is extremely high.

I've played football for over ten years, including college. I was a head buster. I've had over six or seven concussions. Absolutely wanted to go pro.

Ultimately, running down the field full speed, I was knocked out again. I blacked out. I was dizzy. I had that blurred vision. I definitely knew I was done as a football player after that hit.

I still experience a lot of the symptoms to this day. Luckily Nascar fell into my lap.

I met the head pit crew coach at Chip Ganassi Racing, who saw me and wanted to take a chance. I had no idea of Nascar prior to be joining the series.

Being one of the few African-Americans at the racetrack, I didn't think anything of it. It wasn't until it was brought to my attention that there's never been an African-American to pit a car at Hendrick Motorspots to win in the top series of Nascar. So that's when it clicked to me that, man, I'm doing something pretty cool here.

My position now in Nascar is to expose the gospel of Nascar to as many collegiate athletes that I can. I could have been the first in a lot, but I definitely won't be the last.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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[08:53:34] CAMEROTA: OK, "Here's To Your Health," our new segment, and there is a new option on the war on cancer. The FDA has just approved what is being called a ground-breaking new drug for targeted therapy.

Joining us now is chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, it's great to have you here.

Is this a ground-breaking new development?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think this is the way cancer treatments are going to go. This is a big deal because for the -- people have been talking about this for a while, but instead of calling cancers a breast cancer or a prostate cancer or whatever, they're going to start calling them by what really is causing the cancer, which is the mutation. There's a certain mutation that causes that cancer to grow and it

doesn't matter where it is in the body. You don't treat the tissue, you're treating the mutation itself. And I think that's a big deal.

And, you know, there can be the same mutation in totally different parts of the body. Now we think to actually look for those mutations as opposed to just looking at the tissue itself.

BERMAN: So, how do you know, because I know people are watching this, this morning, how do you know if this type of treatment works for you?

GUPTA: So, well -- so what we're talking about here is if you're looking at a certain type of cancer, you would actually basically map the cancer now. Instead of just looking at an image, like a CAT scan or something, let's look down at the DNA of this cancer and see if you find the mutation. If you find that mutation, then you actually have this drug, this new drug, Vitrakvi, it's called, that can target that mutation. You do have to do the genetic sequencing. That's expensive. That's new. That's going to be a problem. The drug is expensive.

[08:55:03] CAMEROTA: Oh, it's shockingly expensive.

BERMAN: I mean how expensive are we talking?

GUPTA: $32,000 a month or a 30 days' supply of two pills a day.

CAMEROTA: Does your insurance cover that?

GUPTA: So it's going to depend, right? Some insurance companies are going to cover this. It's a small population of people that probably are going to be candidates for this, two to three thousands initially, you know, maybe who actually have these mutations. So it's not a huge number.

But I think what we're seeing here is sort of the -- the spawning of a brand-new way of looking at these cancers. Stop calling them by their tissue names. Look for the mutations. This is one of the first. There's been others. But this is one of the first that does this. Will there be others that follow? Will the prices come down? Will every time you get a cancer diagnosis, will you be able to actually genetically map that cancer? That's what they want to happen here.

CAMEROTA: That is fascinating. Sanjay, thank you very much for telling us all about it.

GUPTA: Yes.

BERMAN: And we're really excited for this new segment, "Here's For Your Health." It's going to make Sanjay come and talk to us every week, which is the best part of it.

GUPTA: Keep you healthy, yes.

BERMAN: Right.

CAMEROTA: Thank you. GUPTA: That's why I'm here.

CAMEROTA: Fantastic. A house call.

OK, a much clearer picture at Robert Mueller's -- of Robert Mueller's focus. An inside look at where the investigation may be headed. That's next.

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Wednesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto in New York.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow.

There is no shortage of news this morning.

[09:00:00] We get not one but two exceedingly rare peaks behind the scenes. In one case, behind the back of the Mueller investigation. CNN has seen