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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
CNN Investigation Revealed Startling Rise in Anti-Semitism; Russia Downplays Trump's Threat to Cancel Talks with Putin; Bank of England Warning A No-Deal Brexit Could Drop GDP 8 Percent; Anti-Semitic Hate Crimes Surge in The United States. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired November 28, 2018 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani. Tonight, shocking statistics from Germany, a CNN
investigation continues showing just how big a problem anti-Semitism is there. We have the full story.
Also, tonight, coming to Brexit it seems even the best-case scenario is terrible. That's the word today from the British government. And the Bank
of England. We go through the numbers.
We hear details of a futile tug of war with the plane's automatic systems in the minutes before Lion Air flight 610 plunged into the ocean.
We begin in Germany, a country that once swore it would never forget the holocaust or the actions of its Nazi leaders. But it didn't mean like
this. You're looking at pictures of far-right German demonstrators. These were taken just in month. As you can see, they're using Nazi-style
symbols. Now a CNN investigation revealing that this feeling is dangerously on the rise in more ways than one. Clarissa Ward explains.
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a sight you don't expect to see in Germany in 2018. Hundreds of right-wing extremists,
many neo-Nazis, marching through the nation's capital. Close the border, they shout. Resistance, resistance. The far right is enjoying a major
comeback here, bringing with it a troubling rise in anti-Semitism. According to government figures, anti-Semitic attacks increased by 20
percent in the last 5 years, the number of violent right-wing extremists gone up by nearly a third. This man tells us a shadowy cabal of globalists
controls the world.
WARD: When you talk about the elites and finance, is that another way of saying Jewish people?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
WARD: It is?
Let me say it this way. The banking system, for sure. Banks, finance, the economy. Mainly Jews. He says. We had more questions but our
conversation was cut short by one of the march's organizers. I think we have someone following us. Making anti-Semitic statements can be
punishable under German law but Christian Weissberger explains that neo- Nazis are finding new ways to express the same old hatred. And he should know. Weissberger used to be a right-wing extremism, himself.
CHRISTIAN WEISSBERGER, FORMER NEO-NAZI: I would say it is a form of anti- Semitism that disguises themselves so they don't talk about the Jew anymore. They talk about the Zionists or the globalist or the bankers.
WARD: And they are growing more brazen. One man flashes a quick but unmistakable Nazi salute right in front of us. A crime in Germany. It's
important to remember this isn't any country. This is Germany. Just a few hundred yards from the march is a memorial for the millions of Jews
murdered here in the second world war. More than 70 years after the holocaust, Germany is still haunted by its past. And yet, remarkably,
anti-Semitism is once again a growing problem here with 50 percent of Germans agreeing that Jewish people are now at risk of racist violence.
The statistic comes from a CNN poll that also found half of Germans believe Jews are at risk of hate speech. At Feinberg's Israeli restaurant, the
owner says he gets threats every day.
YORAI FEINBERG, RESTAURANT OWNER: From murder to I'll break your knees, arms, teeth. They're very creative in everything. You know? All the
options they want to break.
WARD: He was recently accosted by a man who told him Jews will end up in the gas chamber. It's only about the money for you. You will pay, the man
says to him. Nobody wants you here. He told you to go to the gas chambers or that you will go back to the gas chambers?
WARD: You have heard things like that before?
FEINBERG: Very often.
WARD: Germany has acknowledged it has a problem. Recently appointing its first anti-Semitism czar. Felix Klein is focused on creating a nationwide
system for reporting anti-Semitic crimes and improving integration of Germany's different communities.
[14:05:00] FELIX KLEIN, ANTI-SEMITISM CZAR, GERMANY: Anti-Semitism has always existed in Germany, also after 1945 and now, though, it is showing
its ugly face more openly. Things that people would never have dared to say in a bar, in a restaurant, in a private surrounding do it so now using
social media or the net.
WARD: Germany has seen upticks in neo-Nazi activity before. Most notably in the 1990s. While official statistics show that more than 90 percent of
anti-Semitic attacks nationwide are from the far right there's a new element of concern for the Jewish community. The arrival of 1.4 million
Muslim refugees in the last 3 years. Doron Ruben is the leader of Germany's small, orthodox Jewish community.
DORON RUBEN, HEAD OF BERLIN'S KAHAL ADASS JISROEL CONGREGATION: A lot of coming -- coming of a lot of immigrants of a different history and a
different background and especially obviously coming from the Middle East have also because of Islam, different attitude toward Jews.
KLEIN: When we talk about Muslim originated anti-Semitism, we can only win that battle with the help of the moderate Muslims. Without them, it's --
this wouldn't be a successful fight.
WARD: Overall, the Jewish community remains anxious.
RUBEN: I think much more Jews now are think again like, can you call Germany our home and is it possible to live in this society? You can
notice the question that might not have been asked five years ago is popping up again.
WARD: It's question few in this country ever imagined would have to be asked again.
GORANI: Clarissa is here. And by the way for our viewers we'll be speaking with Felix Klein, the anti-Semitism czar of Germany. I was struck
by that restaurant owner who said that on a daily basis he's harassed, threatened and insulted. How do you live every day with that type of
WARD: And you saw the almost nonchalance with which he talks about this kind of constant tide of verbal abuse that he gets. I mean, obviously,
because he owns an Israeli restaurant the public -- you know, the phone number is publicly listed, the address is publicly known. So, in a sense,
it's natural that anti-Semitic activity to gravitate toward a known Israeli target or place. He has a sort of positive attitude, as well, though. He
says the vast majority of Berliners are welcoming. He said it is a problem around the world. A lot of Jews feel that there's nowhere really safe for
them and that's why the idea of the state of Israel is so important to them.
GORANI: Despite the fact there's a lot of criticism, of course, about how it manages the Palestinian politician and Muslims in the piece but a vast
majority of the attacks from the far right?
WARD: Yes. This is interesting because what I would ask the various Jewish communities we talked to in Germany specifically, is hold on a
second. If the government is saying 90 percent of attacks from the far right, why are you so concerned about this threat or perceived threat if
the Muslim population? What they would say is we know that the neo-Nazis are the enemy. The far right hates us. We have known that and understood
that for many, many decades. They're used to that, comfortable with it, believe the state has enough of control over that situation. For them, in
their own words, they would say that the Muslim population is much more of an unknown commodity, an unknown quantity. Coming from the Middle East.
They have a different idea about Jewish people. They conflate them closely with the Israeli/Palestinian crisis and they see the new anti-Semitism from
the Muslim community and the far left so critically -- so critical of the Israeli state and this is something, Hala, to be talking about more
tomorrow looking at France where most Jewish people talking about the new anti-Semitism.
GORANI: That's a perfect segue. We have a clip from tomorrow's report, and we'll be continuing the special coverage all week and culminate in a
special program in this hour on Friday. Take a look at a bit of Clarissa's report for tomorrow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:10:00] WARD: Miriam and her family have considered moving from France. Joining the more than 55,000 Jews who have left since the year 2000. In
the sanctuary of their home, they celebrate Shabat, a ritual ushered in every Friday night lighting candles and reciting a blessing.
MIRIAM: I'm scared for the future of my baby here. I hope that he will have a future here. And, you know, Jewish communities are a part of
history of France, really. And so, I think France without any Jew is not France.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, we will have that report tomorrow on the program.
Let's turn attention now to Russia. It is turning up the pressure on Ukraine. Officials in Russian controlled Crimea announced that 24 sailors
will be held for at least two months while they await trial for entering Russian territorial waters. That's the allegation of Russia. They were
captured after Russia seized three Ukrainian boats in the Kerch Strait. Russia is down playing Donald Trump's warning to cancel up coming talks
with Vladimir Putin over this whole thing and supposed to meet with Russia's President on the sidelines of the G20 summit in Argentina. But
yesterday suggested he's having second thoughts because of what he calls Russia's aggression. Today the Kremlin said it expects the meeting to go
ahead adding that it's equally needed by both sides.
Let's get the latest of Washington, joined by correspondent Elise Labott. Washington and Donald Trump saying he may cancel the meeting. What happens
if, indeed, that meeting is scrapped?
ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I think it's just going to escalate the rhetoric, escalate tensions and then I think you might see a
little bit more of a robust U.S. policy, Hala, in terms of coordinating with the Ukrainian government, possibly talking about more military
assistance. I don't think anything is in the offing but, you know, there was a lot of U.S. military assistance that was supposed to be going to the
Ukrainian military. Our understanding is that is kind of a long track and maybe even being sped up. It's not any new type of assistance. Secretary
of State Pompeo spoke to President Poroshenko the other day. Obviously, the U.S. taking a very tough line, leading up until this meeting. The
President wants to, we understand from officials, preserve his space, not talk about it beforehand really. Before he sits down with President Putin.
So as of now, that meeting is going ahead. Those briefings took place last night. And over the last couple of days, so the President has a pretty
good idea at this point of what happened and now unless we hear anything else it looks like the meeting will probably go ahead.
GORANI: What I find interesting is the U.S. is telling Russia release those sailors. You know? You need to de-escalate the tension right now.
We don't need another war breaking out between the sides. And instead of doing that, they essentially do the exact opinion sit an they say, well,
those 24 sailors we're holding, we'll keep them two months. Not only not releasing them but jail them longer. This doesn't sound like a President
Putin who cares much what the White House has to say.
LABOTT: Clearly, he doesn't think that President Trump will do anything about it. I mean, I think he's maybe even testing President Trump and
certainly advisers, Secretary Pompeo, Defense Secretary Mattis, National Security Adviser Bolton, may, you know, encourage him to take a tougher
position. But you know, when I talked to officials they say, look. This latest escalation is illegal. It's aggressive. Unjustified. All of those
things. But it's nothing that wasn't expected because it comes from something that everyone already knows. Which is, the illegal seizure of
Crimea by Russia, that's finally coming home. Before it was more of a, you know, kind of a theoretical seizure because nothing was really happening on
the ground. But this is really I think the first real world example of how those tensions can escalate.
GORANI: Speaking of not holding a country to account, critics of Saudi Arabia are saying it is getting away with bad behavior. Donald Trump is
hoping that this whole Jamal Khashoggi thing goes away. Secretary of State Pompeo testified on capitol hill today essentially saying there's no proof
it went higher than the people --
LABOTT: No smoking gun. Mo smoking gun.
GORANI: But this is all basically repeating the lines from the President saying, listen. What we want is the status quo. Don't think anything's
going to change.
[14:15:00] LABOTT: That's right. Look. President Trump gave an interview to "The Washington Post" yesterday and he said something very interesting
about there was a lot of talk about this CIA assessment and how President Trump said, you know, there's no proof, there's no proof. He said I never
said that the CIA didn't say he did it. So, what he's essentially saying is, yes, he saw the CIA assessment. Because there's no smoking gun he
doesn't have to do anything and he's being pretty, you know, blunt and pretty, you know, clear-eyed about the fact that he thinks that the
relationship is more important than going after the crown prince for the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. And secretary Pompeo in this remarkable
editorial, op-ed, that he put this morning about the relationship with Saudi Arabia, essentially saying, yes, this was a horrible act. We don't
condone it. We're punishing those who had a physical hand in doing it. But, you know, that's pretty much it.
GORANI: All right. And but although we have top congressional Republicans including graham who are saying they want to hear from the CIA, they want
more information. We'll see where that goes. Elise, thank you so much.
Still to come tonight, Britain's central bank given the forecast for a worst-case scenario Brexit. It is not pretty. We'll give you details.
Authorities in Indonesia release findings on the quick and terrifying Lion Air crash last month. We will have an update on what happened. What the
pilots we believe desperately tried to do to right the plane before it plunged.
GORANI: Now, a Brexit where the U.K. crashes out of the EU without a deal would be more painful than another global financial crisis. I'm talking
about the big one from 2007, 2008. That's the alarming warning from the Bank of England. Mark Carney outlined the worst-case scenario for Brexit.
Let's walk through the headlines. The central bank predicts that the pound, in case of a no-deal scenario, worst-case scenario, to fall by 25
percent against the dollar. Taking it close to parity. U.K. house prices could plummet by a third. And a spike in interest rates to add to the
misery. The Bank of England said the British economy could shrink by 1 percent within 1 year and over 5 years one of the worst economic declines
ever in the U.K. Here's another bit of the sort of depressing predictions that Governor Carney made earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:20:00] MARK CARNEY, GOVERNOR, BANK OF ENGLAND: By the end of 2023, GDP is more than 10 percent lower in the disorderly scenario compared to May
2016 trend. Despite the sharp contraction in GDP, something that's bigger than happened in the financial crisis, unemployment rises to 7.5 percent
less than during the financial crisis
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, let's bring in CNN business editor at large Richard Quest to break it down for us. He is live in New York. Now, it depends what side
of the Brexit debate people are on but those pro Brexit say, ugh, predictions! Didn't they tell us before the vote that if the U.K. voted to
quest to break it down for us. He is live in New York. Now, it depends what side of the Brexit debate people are on but those pro Brexit say, ugh,
predictions! Didn't they tell us before the vote that if the U.K. voted to leave that the economy would contract and all hell would break loose? That
didn't happen. So, what about these numbers? That's what the Brexiteers are saying today.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: Yes. This is so-called project fear. They said if the U.K. voted to leave. But you know, you can
make an argument, Hala, that the project fear before the referendum was really happening now. They were forecasting not what will happen if you
vote to leave but what will happen if you do actually leave and that's what both the treasury, even the government today, even the government's best
scenario, best scenario, has the U.K. being 2.7 percent lower on GDP than staying in. This is somewhat academic, Hala, because the U.K. at the
moment is going to leave. So, comparing to what it would be like if you stayed in, versus everything else --
GORANI: You don't know that for sure. There is a path to a second referendum. It exists.
QUEST: At the moment. There is no likelihood of the second referendum before March 29th. Could they suddenly push it forward? Of course, they
GORANI: Sure. They could extend the article 50 negotiation window. There's lots that could happen. It's the complete unknown right now.
QUEST: Ah, this is the scenario that they're talking about in these numbers. It's very -- for instance, the lower level of 2.7 is if you leave
in a deal. It's the upper level, 7 percent or 9 percent of GDP if you leave without a deal. What's the long and short of it? Whatever happens,
the U.K. economy is going to suffer. The British people will be poorer.
QUEST: But many will say the Brexiteers will say you can't only measure this in economic terms but look at it in terms of other issues, borders --
GORANI: That was one of the main motivators. The finance minister essentially, Hammond, admitted today that the country would be worse off
than if it stayed. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP HAMMOND, FINANCE MINISTER, U.K.: If only consideration was the economy, then the analysis shows clearly that remaining in the European
Union would be a better outcome for the economy. But not by much. The prime minister's deal is -- delivers an outcome that's very close to the
economic benefits of remaining in while having all the political benefits of being out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Hala --
GORANI: There -- he couldn't be more clear about what the implications are here.
QUEST: Right. But, Hala, he says the difference between staying in and leaving under the prime minister's deal is around 2.7 percent. Which is
right. Not terribly considerable. What everybody's focusing on and I think rightly focusing on is disorderly -- well, the governor of the Bank
of England called the disorderly scenario. If you crash out. And that is what is on the horizon. That is what is looking likely if in two weeks
parliament rejects it because as Guy Verhofstadt said from the European parliament and familiar with him, he told me if the U.K. parliament does
not pass Theresa May's deal all bets are off. Nobody knows what will happen and then looking at 9 percent loss of GDP.
GORANI: Yes. And the vote is on December 11th. Theresa May challenged the leader of the opposition to a debate. She is on this country wide tour
trying to convince the ordinary Brits that this is the best deal.
[14:25:00] So, if you don't have this deal, and -- I really can't imagine politically that even hardcore Brexiteers would allow the country to leave
with nothing, without a deal. I can't imagine -- they're going to come up with a political compromise.
QUEST: The question is how you get there. And at the moment, whichever way you pass it, this is not about policy. This is not about do you leave
Brexit or no Brexit or whatever. This is about arithmetic and the arithmetic is against her. She cannot win on the numbers as they stand at
GORANI: Richard, thanks very much. We'll see you at the top of the hour.
The top of the show we told you about the rise of anti-Semitism across Europe and fears are growing in the Jewish community in the U.S., as well.
Correspondent Sarah Sidner looks at that phenomenon in America.
RABBI JEFFREY MYERS, TREE OF LIFE SYNAGOGUE: I'm not just concerned about the rise of anti-Semitism. I am concerned about the rise of hate in our
SARAH SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A quiet Saturday morning of prayer and reflection at Rabbi Jeffery Myers synagogue in Pittsburgh.
POLICE: Shots fired!
SIDNER: Savagely interrupted by gun fire.
POLICE: An automatic weapon.
SIDNER: Anti-Semitism had blasted the way back into America's consciousness.
POLICE: We have at least four down in the atrium.
SIDNER: Barry was praying inside the Tree Of Life Synagogue when bullets started to fly. He hid in a closet as a gunman mowed down 11 of his fellow
worshippers. What is it like being a survivor?
BARRY WERBER, SURVIVOR OF SYNAGOGUE MASSACRE: MYERS: Sometimes I just feel dead inside. No feeling at all. I hate that feeling. But it's
SIDNER: How many of your friends have you had to bury?
WERBER: Too many to count.
SIDNER: It was the deadliest anti-Semitic attack in American history. The personification of a rising state of hate in this country. The Anti-
Defamation League says anti-Semitism in America was already exploding from neo-Nazi marches to more subtle propaganda. In 2017 the ADL logged nearly
2000 anti-Semitic incidents, a 57% spike in just one year.
JOHNATHAN GREENBLATT, CEO, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: That's the single largest surge we have ever seen since we started tracking this data.
SIDNER: The FBI which only counts hate crimes reported by police saw an astonishing 37 percent rise in anti-Semitic crimes. Police in Pittsburgh
say the gunman's anti-Semitic fervor was spelled out on social media. One site in particular that attracts racist and neo-Nazis because of the loose
policies on free speech. Experts say those sites have become echo chambers that are getting louder and helping motivate real life attacks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALES: [bleep]! Race war now!
SIDNER: The anger and misguided ideology of neo-Nazis permeating the dark corners of the internet materializing on street corners and being scrolled
across America's landscape. In Indiana, on a school in Colorado, on a school bus in Florida, on political signs in California and on street signs
in Nevada. Words of hate on a temple in California. What was spelled out here?
RABBI YISROEL CINER, BETH JACOB CONGREGATION OF IRVINE: Expletive, f-you. Jews. Expletive again. And red spray paint.
SIDNER: Anti-Semitism expressed through bullet holes shot through a temple in Indiana. Cars were set ablaze at a Jewish cultural center in Tennessee.
And across the country, posters are popping up on college campuses to instill Nazi ideals in young minds. Even the dead are targets. At 92
years old, Miller Bronstein knows the pain of loss.
MILLIARD BRAUNSTEIN, MOTHER'S GRAVE DESECRATED: This was a lot of my life.
SIDNER: He's never experienced anti-Semitism until this year. When 175 tombstones at a Jewish cemetery in Philadelphia were desecrated.
BRAUNSTEIN: My mother's stone was knocked over and very upsetting. I said, how could this happen in America today?
SIDNER: For the victims of anti-Semitism, the question is, why has it returned with such a vengeance?
GREENBLATT: Anti-Semitism is nothing new. What is new is, number one, the public conversation, the charged atmosphere, the incredibly polarized
phenomenon in our society today.
SIDNER: Experts say Charlottesville, Virginia, last year was a turning point. The moment the growing rise in racism and anti-Semitism went
public. Hundreds of white nationalists, neo-Nazis and Klansmen took to the streets. It was one of several protests last year but this was different.
It began with a torch-lit march on Friday night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALES: Jews will not replace us.
SIDNER: That turned into a violent confrontation the next morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: [bleep]!
SIDNER: In the end, police say a man with neo-Nazi ideals killed 32-year- old Heather Heyer. Those who monitor neo-Nazis say the aftermath may have encouraged the movement.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides.
SIDNER: Especially, because the President's lack of a complete condemnation of what happened was cheered by white nationalists.
WERBER: Show me a good neo-Nazi and show me a good Ku Klux Klansman. I made it just isn't there. Instead of saying there is wrong on both sides.
How are we wrong? What were we doing wrong? I said frame. That can't be wrong.
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Barry Werber likens that kind of thinking to Hitlerism. He is well aware of the torture that regime meted out on a
WERBER: He was used by the German scientists for experiments. They had literally cut the muscles out of his arms. To see if they would regrow.
And he had to live with that. Thank God I never had to go through that.
SIDNER: Jews have a saying about the holocaust. Never again. After what he's been through, Werber is terrified it really could happen again.
Sara Sidner, CNN, Pittsburgh.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Coming up, Indonesian authorities find that the deadly Lion Air plane crash -- the case, I should say, of man
versus machine. We'll ask what went so horribly wrong when we come back.
GORANI: Now some breaking news on the investigation into the Trump campaign's ties to Russia. It is a CNN exclusive. We're getting our first
insight into how Donald Trump may have responded in writing to Special Counsel Robert Mueller's questions.
According to two sources, the U.S., the U.S. president said his longtime associate, Roger Stone, did not talk to him about WikiLeaks and that he was
not told about the 2016 Trump Tower meeting that included his son and a Russian lawyer promising dirt on Hillary Clinton. Those issues are key to
Mueller's probe into possible collusion.
A source said Mr. Trump made clear he was answering to the best of his recollection. So not entirely surprising the content of the answer, but
these are according to two sources talking to CNN. A first insight into what he drafted. He himself, the president, said he wrote them without
lawyers. There are other versions of events as to how much the lawyers may have contributed to the replies that the Trump team sent back to the
Now, speaking of the U.S. President, he often says he trusts his gut more than anyone else's brain. That's just one of the headlines to come out of
a wide-ranging interview with the Washington Post.
When asked why he was skeptical about his own government's dire warnings of climate change, Mr. Trump said, quote, "One of the problems that a lot of
people like myself, we have very high levels of intelligence, but we're not necessarily such believers." Quote/unquote.
[14:35:02] He went on to say, "When you're talking about an atmosphere, oceans are very small. And it blows over and it sails over. I mean, we
take thousands of tons of garbage off our beaches all the time that comes over from Asia. It just flows right down the Pacific." That was in reply
to a question on climate change and the environment.
We're joined now by Aaron Blake, a senior political reporter for the Washington Post. So this climate reply actually got -- it's probably the
one I saw quoted most online on social media that went the most viral, if you will. What else did he say? Because he is really adamant that these
expert reports commissioned by his own government don't really get it.
AARON BLAKE, SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST: Yes. I think there's actually a connection between those last two things that you
mentioned, one being him talking about how he believes his gut. He doesn't necessarily -- he's a person of high intelligence. He doesn't necessarily
have to believe the evidence. He trusts his gut and he's not necessarily a believer. That feeds directly into his skepticism about climate change.
He has offered a number of odd theories about this. He has offered a number of odd theories most recently about the wildfires in California,
talking about how all the forests simply needed to be raked out in advance.
I think it's a pretty good encapsulation of where he comes from as president. But what's most interesting here is that he is now disregarding
the conclusions of his own administration. This is a report that came from the United States government and he's basically shrugging it off and saying
he would rather rely upon his own sense of what's actually happening.
GORANI: And he was asked about Manafort and at that point he said, "Let's go off the record." And no part of his reply on, you know, the Manafort
plea deal or whether or not he'd lied ever made it into the interview. And that was very frustrating for a lot of people because that was really the
question of the day for the president.
BLAKE: Yes. You know, it's not like he's been a shrinking violet when it comes to commenting on the Mueller investigation. Over the past week, he
has tweeted about this on numerous occasions. And yet, talking about Paul Manafort seems to be a little bit of a red line for him. He does not seem
to want to go there. Besides talking, you know, a couple of months ago about how Manafort wasn't actually a key member of his campaign and
distancing himself from Manafort in certain ways.
You know, I think that there is a subplot here at least from news in the last couple of days that talks of a pardon for Paul Manafort could be on
again after his plea agreement with Robert Mueller's investigation fell through.
And the fact that the president refuses to criticize Paul Manafort, refuses really to weigh in in way on this, I think only feeds that speculation.
GORANI: And the Khashoggi thing, I mean, not necessarily in the interview, but the fact that there are reports at the White House blocked Gina Haspel,
the CIA director from testifying on Capitol Hill about what she knew and her agency concluded about the Khashoggi murder. The idea that both the
climate experts, the intelligence experts, none of them can be trusted to really come up with the truth. That it's the president's gut, gut feeling
that matters here.
BLAKE: Yes. And it doesn't seem like the administration really wants us to hear from the CIA director. Of course, she is the one who leads the
agency, that has concluded with high confidence, according to Washington Post" reporting, that the crown prince of Saudi Arabia was behind the
murder of Jamal Khashoggi. We just saw in last half an hour or so, Mike Pompeo, the secretary of state, come out and say there is no, quote, direct
reporting linking the crown prince to the murder. That's a very narrow denial and doesn't really address the CIA's assessment.
So the White House doesn't seem to be wanting to go into detail about this. They don't seem to be wanting to put that CIA report forward or even put
the CIA director forward. And the question from there is, why is that a decision that's being made? Is Director Haspel perhaps not willing to toe
the line that they want on this which is to downplay this whole thing and argue that there shouldn't be repercussions?
There are a lot of questions. But I would add it's not just the media asking questions, it's also some Republican senators who have said that
they really want to force this issue, even Senator Lindsey Graham said that he will not vote for a spending bill until he gets a briefing from the CIA
about this matter.
So we could still yet see the senators forcing the White House's hand on a topic that they just as soon move past.
GORANI: Aaron Blake, thanks so much for joining us from the Washington Post. Appreciate it.
BLAKE: Thank you.
GORANI: Now to a desperate battle between men and a machine. For 11 minutes, the pilots of Lion Air flight 610 fought a tug of war with the
computer system of a Boeing aircraft. CNN's Ivan Watson has more on the terrifying final moments of the flight.
[14:40:05] IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's been a month since Lion Air flight 610 plunged into the sea, killing all 189 passengers and crew on
A preliminary report published by Indonesian investigators reveals disturbing details about the brand new Boeing 737 Max 8 and its final
This graph shows the plane's erratic altitude during a flight that lasted only around 11 minutes. Ninety seconds in, the co-pilot radios air traffic
control reporting flight control problems. Minutes later, an autopilot feature kicks in forcing the nose of the aircraft down. And 20 seconds
before the crash, the pilot radios his last words saying, 5,000, indicating his desired altitude.
The pilots were struggling with a runaway stabilizer, so these orange dips indicate every time the autopilot pushes the plane into a dive. The blue
bumps, they're the moment when the pilot responds, manually trying to pull the nose of the plane up. And this back and forth happens more than 30
times during an 11-minute flight, a battle in the cockpit between human operators and the autopilot.
GEOFFREY THOMAS, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, AIRLINERATINGS.COM: From a passenger point of view, on board the airplane, it would have been terrifying and for
the pilots, as well. Pitching, fighting, pitching, fighting.
WATSON: But investigators are at a loss to explain why pilots didn't follow the same procedure performed by another flight crew on the same
plane the previous day. When they encountered a similar runaway stabilizer problem.
THOMAS: The biggest single conclusion I draw from this report are the glaring problems with this airplane, with the speed sensor and angle of
attack data, over four previous flights and the airplane was not removed from service. That's astonishing.
WATSON: Lion Air says it cannot comment until conclusion of the investigation.
The report little consolation for grieving relatives of the victims.
RINI SOEGIYONO, SISTER WAS ON LION AIR FLIGHT 610: Sadness, grieving. Mourning, frustration.
WATSON: Rini Soegiyono's sister and brother-in-law died on the Lion Air flight 610.
SOEGIYONO: This flight is not worthy to fly. So I don't know why it's still, you know, flight on schedule. Taking all 189 passengers and crew.
WATSON: At least two families have announced lawsuits against Boeing. Accusing it of producing a defective flight manual and unsafe anti-stall
system. The U.S. aircraft manufacturer insists the Boeing 737 Max is safe. Boeing pledges to cooperate with authorities as they continue to
investigate the cause of this deadly crash.
Ivan Watson, CNN, Hong Kong.
GORANI: Well, let's talk more about what happened and whether it can happen again is the big question, of course. We go live to CNN's safety
analyst, David Soucie, who's joining us from Denver.
Let's talk, David, first of all about, I mean, why weren't pilots able to override a computer system? That sounds crazy.
DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, the fact is that they could have overridden it but they weren't aware of how to do that. That goes back to
a number of failures in communication, one with Boeing not telling people that the system can do this. When the autopilot's off. They were manually
flying the plane, but it continue give these nose down attitude movements and they had to fight against them. So that was the first step of the
GORANI: But that's what? A lack of training? What is it?
SOUCIE: Well, there's two things, there's a lack of training, number one. Number two is that Boeing really didn't make it known. This is a new
system that overrides. Usually when you turn your autopilot off, it's off. It's not going to do anything against your controls. But Boeing did not
communicate that to their customers and tell them that existed, so that's that part.
But the second part of this is the fact that there was no communication evidently between the maintenance crew and the flight crew. There's
several opportunities to do that but it just didn't happen.
GORANI: Because they could have what? During the emergency contacted the maintenance crew and asked them what do I do to override this computer
SOUCIE: No. What I'm referring to more is the fact that as Geoff had mentioned earlier, there were four opportunities, four different times that
this similar problem had occurred on that particular aircraft.
GORANI: I see.
SOUCIE: I'm not talking about the series, I'm talking about that serial number aircraft and they did not correct it. They didn't fix it. Although
there were maintenance logs and the aircraft maintenance flight log had many repeated entries about it and how they tried to fix it on previous
flights, but it was never taken out of service and then these pilots who took it over obviously weren't aware of how to deal with the situation.
GORANI: Thanks so much for explaining that to us, David Soucie. We appreciate it. Live from Denver.
[14:45:03] Now, as we've been reporting, there has been a rise of hate crimes in Europe. Next, we'll speak with Germany's first-ever commissioner
for fighting anti-Semitism. Stay with us.
GORANI: More now on CNN's exclusive study of rising anti-Semitism across Europe. It's really taken hold in Germany despite endless efforts to avoid
a repeat of anything like Hitler's Nazi rage that killed millions of Jews just 70 years ago. But CNN polls are showing a pretty disturbing trend.
Right now, one half agreed that Jewish people are at risk of racist violence in Germany and 16 percent believe that most anti-Semitism is
response to the behaviors of Jewish people themselves.
Plus, we're hearing from the far-right protestors, Clarissa ward was at a rally in Berlin. This is what they told her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This man tells us a shadowy cabal of globalist controls the world.
WARD: So when you talk about the elites and you talk about finance, is that another way of saying Jewish people?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
WARD: It is?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's all (INAUDIBLE)
WARD: Let me say it this way, the banking system for sure, banks, finance, the economy, mainly Jews, he says.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. Let's get reaction from Germany. You saw him in Clarisse's report. Felix Klein is the anti-Semitism commissioner in
Germany and that was a post created just this year to address the rise in hate crimes and he joins me via Skype from Frankfurt.
Felix Klein, first of all, I don't know if you had an opportunity to see the whole report here. But there are certainly some far-right groups that
are barely hiding their hatred for Jews and other minorities. What's your reaction to those reports? And then the poll findings, as well.
FELIX KLEIN, ANTI-SEMITISM COMMISSIONER IN GERMANY: Well, the reports and the poll findings are appalling, and I'm really alarmed by the results. We
have to concentrate all efforts to counter fight that to make sure that people know about the holocaust, especially in Germany since anti-Semitism
and the rise of the far-right is always something very special in Germany due to our history.
GORANI: So, how do you do that? Because I mean, is it a lack of awareness of the holocaust? Or is it the normalization of some hate speech? Why
this resurgence in your opinion?
KLEIN: Well, anti-Semitism and the far-right have always existed also in Germany even after 1945. But now it shows the ugly face again more openly
without being ashamed. Things are also anti-Semitic sentences and actions are openly shown. And I think this is also due to the lack of sensitivity
towards our past. It's lack of information. And so this is why we have to concentrate our efforts in further developing our remembrance policy.
[14:50:23] GORANI: Right. So you think it's a question of educating people?
KLEIN: It is a question of educating people. Unfortunately, social media and the internet have kind of contributed to a brutalization of our
political discord. So it is -- so we need education to counter fight that. We need to raise awareness of what people are actually saying.
The word Jew, again, is an insult in German school or courts or in the public. And people are -- students shout words and make jokes about Jews
without knowing what they're talking about, so we really have to raise awareness and also to create opportunities for non-Jews to meet Jews.
GORANI: Felix Klein, Germany's first commissioner for anti-Semitism. Thanks so much for joining us and reacting to this exclusive polling
commissioned by CNN on the extent of the issue. We really appreciate your time this evening.
Stay with CNN. We'll be right back.
KLEIN: Thank you.
GORANI: Well, there are many good reasons to exercise, obviously. Health, enjoyment. I don't know about that part, though. And don't deny it,
vanity. But what if I added money to that list? What if I said you can shed pounds to earn pounds? Or any other currency. Samuel Burke is here
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS AND TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: I don't know if people want the British pound these days. The way the currency is headed.
GORANI: It might tumble 30 percent if there's no a deal, according to Mark Carney.
BURKE: I saw that. Listen, Hala. I've tested all of these wearables, the Apple Watch, Fit Bit. I've done exercise reports that you've seen. And
one of the top questions I get from people is, do they actually work? Is there any scientific evidence? Now we've got some scientific evidence but
there's one other catch.
BURKE: Kerry Ferguson had always been an athlete. Ten years ago, she was sidelined by a string of injuries that changed her workout habits.
KERRY FERGUSON, STUDY PARTICIPANT: I started gaining weight from the easy life, living in London. You know, pastas, the quickest and easiest meal to
make when you get home from work.
BURKE: Determined to turn things around, she signed up for a new program through her work's health insurance. She'd get an Apple Watch for free as
long as she kept working out.
The more active you are, the less you have to pay?
BURKE: Ferguson is part of a new study commissioned by the health insurer Discovery of more than 400,000 people across the U.S., U.K. and South
It found participants were more likely to work out if they knew it would save them money.
ADRIAN GORE, CEO, DISCOVERY: We've seen a 34 percent increase in people physically active. We've seen it, I think, very importantly in areas of
intensity. So people are actually more physically active and intense which is very healthy. We've seen it across growth factors and different BMI
factors. And so these are very fundamental findings.
BURKE: The findings supports a growing movement in economics that believes human behavior is motivated by avoiding financial losses than pursuing
[14:55:03] GORE: So the way this benefit works, you've got the watch. And if you don't do it, you're going to pay for it. So this works of a
subversion and that's a very powerful motivator.
BURKE: Kelly Ferguson said she wouldn't have purchased her Apple Watch at face value. Since she entered the study about a year ago, she shed nearly
30 pounds and aims to lose 15 more.
Why do you think it's been effective for you?
FERGUSON: Because I need that motivation to keep me going so that actually says to me, you know, just stand up, take a walk. It's pretty good for
BURKE: Getting back into shape with a nudge from her wrist.
And are you running every day now?
FERGUSON: Three to four times a week.
BURKE: So, yes. People want to stay in shape, but if they think they're going to have to pay back this Apple Watch that they get for free, then
that really motivates them. It's kind of like car insurance. My parents - - now, when I go back to Phoenix, they tell me don't speed, because I have that little box on my car. Not slow down because we're worried about you,
but it's kind of the same motivation.
GORANI: Yes. So basically, it's a financial motivation because people who paid for it and that cost is done or for free but it would stay free
regardless of the activity level. That didn't change.
BURKE: Exactly. Wanting to lose weight or wanting to stay healthy and knowing that if you don't do that, you'll have to pay back the cost of this
wearable that really changes everything.
GORANI: How much does it cost?
BURKE: A few hundred bucks depending on where you are. The Apple Watch.
GORANI: Do you have one?
BURKE: No, I do not have one. I have enough devices.
GORANI: I do, too. I used to have the step counter. I mean -- Fit Bit. And I just got tired of having to charge it all the time.
BURKE: The charging, that's the issue. The only time I really like these devices is when you're on an airplane and it reminds you, vibrates, OK.
You've got to get up. Because you're on an airplane for hours and you can forget and just watch Netflix.
GORANI: Also, it was an issue of having the bracelet. They're big. I think if they made step counters that were very small, I could wear it, you
know, just discretely. I probably would go for that.
BURKE: They'll put a chip in you soon enough. That will be small enough.
GORANI: Maybe it's already there.
All right. Well, thanks -- we have time to talk about a massive cow? OK. It's called knickers.
GORANI: I don't know if they named it that knowing what knickers means in the U.K. There it is. It's in Australia.
BURKE: Holy cow.
GORANI: That's right. That is -- it's a giant steer who's towering over the entire herd. Almost as tall as Michael Jordan and weighs about the
same as a car. So he's just big boned. Not going to the (INAUDIBLE) though.
BURKE: I wonder if you put a wearable on him if he would slim down.
GORANI: I doubt it.
BURKE: Only with the financial incentive.
GORANI: He seems phatic. Thank you, Samuel. And we'll see you soon. Thanks for watching tonight. From knickers and the entire team at HALA
GORANI TONIGHT, we'll see you same time, same place tomorrow. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.