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Memorial Services to be Held for Former President George H. W. Bush; Former Trump Adviser Roger Stone Comments on His Alleged Connections to WikiLeaks; In Just Hours, The Casket Of Former President George H.W. Bush Will Arrive In Washington. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired December 03, 2018 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: -- traveling with his casket. Also will be his faithful service dog, Sully. This photo shows the yellow lab lying next to the flag-draped casket.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The president joked that Sully could do everything for you but make a martini, but if you needed a martini, he could get someone to do it for you. That's how good Sully was.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: So President Trump will attend the funeral along with his predecessors. Bush 41 made it clear he wanted the current president to be there. This will be an important and rare moment of unity in this town.

Still the possibility of a government shutdown over a border wall looms. It will likely be put off a couple of weeks because of the death of President Bush. The Russia investigation seems to be intensifying. Fired FBI Director James Comey will testify before Congress this week. Michael Cohen's lawyers are asking a judge for leniency after a guilty plea, and revealing new information in the process of that filing.

We want to begin our coverage, though, in Texas, where the late President Bush about to make his final journey to Washington D.C. Ed Lavandera is live in Houston. Ed?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. Here in the city of Houston, people preparing for an emotional week as they pay tribute to a man who grew up as a Yankee, became a Texan, and was very much beloved here in his hometown of Houston, Texas, where he was a fixture in this community in the years after leaving the White House. So here this morning in Houston, people preparing to watch the departure of the casket, along with George W. Bush, the former president's son, and other family members and close friends, including James Baker, his former secretary of state, and other staff members who have worked with him here in Houston since he left the White House.

That special mission 41 aircraft will be taking off from Houston later this morning around 11:30 eastern time before arriving in Washington where then the casket will be taken to the capital and the president will lie in state there. And then we also are looking forward to Wednesday, the state funeral and services that will be held at the National Cathedral on Wednesday before returning home here to Houston, where the city will pay its final respects. A memorial service will be held in the same church where Barbara Bush, his wife, was memorialized earlier this year. And then a train ride to his final resting place on the campus of Texas A&M University where the president has his presidential library. That's where his wife, Barbara, is buried as well, along with their three-year-old daughter, Robin, who died of leukemia in the early 1950s.

So as I mentioned, John and Alisyn, here the beginning of a very emotional week as the final tributes will be pouring in from across the country, the world, and here in the city that loved him so much. John, Alisyn?

BERMAN: Ed Lavandera for us in Houston. We are following every step of this today and over the next few days, so stay with CNN for this special coverage.

Joining us now, CNN political analyst David Gregory, former chief of staff for first lady Laura Bush Anita McBride, editor at large of "The Weekly Standard" and former chief of staff to Vice President Dan Quayle in the Bush administration Bill Kristol, and former Reagan White House official Linda Chavez. Bill I want to start with you, because you did work for four years in the administration of George H. W. Bush. Your thoughts this morning?

BILL KRISTOL, EDITOR, "THE WEEKLY STANDARD": Obviously, it's a moment, especially with the death of Senator McCain earlier this year, sort of the giants of one era, I guess two eras, the World War II generation, George H. W. Bush, the greatest generation, and then John McCain, the Vietnam generation, all passing. A different kind of Republican than we have now in the White House, a different kind of politician, I would say.

And also we were joking before the show, I remember leaving the White House on January 20th, 1993, very nice good-bye photo with President Bush in the Oval Office on January 19th. I told him I thought history would judge him kindly, but one forgets, we were clobbered in the election of '92. Bush had gotten 54 percent of the vote in 88, went down to 38 percent in 1992. It's a good lesson I think that the media judgments of the voters or the populous are not always correct. Not to take anything away from Bill Clinton, his opponent, but I do think history will look much more kindly on President Buh's presidency than voters did in 1992.

CAMEROTA: And that brings us to what we were talking about, the way he personified losing with grace. And this letter that he left for Bill Clinton in the Oval Office. It's a tradition. I just want to read a portion of it. So Bill Clinton comes into the Oval Office and finds the letter waiting for him on the desk, and it says "You will be our president when you read this note. I wish you well. I wish your family well. Your success is now our country's success. I am rooting hard for you." There's a poignancy in the plainspokenness of how he's wishing his competitor so well. ANITA MCBRIDE, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO FIRST LADY LAURA BUSH: Sure,

and in very few words, such a monumental statement that shows his character. This is our president now. That's what he's telling you. The country is behind you.

[08:05:02] And as Bill said, we were clobbered, and we were hurt. We were all hurting. And I love how you started this hour by showing the humor of the "Saturday Night Live" skit and how George H. W. Bush participated in sort of the jokes against him, or about him. But what he also did for us as a staff, which I don't know if anyone knows, he called Dana Carvey after we were so badly beaten and said my staff is down and I want you to come help cheer them up. And he came to the east room. The entire staff was assembled, and came out doing his comic routine of George H. W. Bush --

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh.

MCBRIDE: With George H. W. Bush and Barbara Bush in the audience, laughing along with it. And it was such a lifting of spirits for everybody that was there. So he was a joyful person who lived his life to the fullest, full of adventure, full of joy and humor, and always caring about the other guy, and we were the other guys.

CAMEROTA: Can you imagine? Is your mind blown right now? The idea of not blaming Dana Carvey for the loss but embracing him.

BERMAN: You don't think that President Trump would invite to the White House --

CAMEROTA: I don't know.

BERMAN: -- to be made fun of in front of the entire staff?

CAMEROTA: Something feels no about that.

BERMAN: But Linda, it is remarkable along those lines that President Trump will be attending the services because Bush 41 wanted it that way. He wanted all the presidents, including the current president, to be there.

LINDA CHAVEZ, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE OFFICIAL: I think that's an example of his graciousness. And he's not looking at Donald Trump the man, the man who has said terrible things, not just about him, but about his children. But he's looking at the office, and he believed, obviously, that it was important to the country to see all of the presidents assembled. And people elected Donald Trump, and I think George Bush, George H. W. Bush wanted to make sure that it was understood that he is the president and he would be given that deference.

BERMAN: Can I ask, Anita, actually, since your here, why this but not Barbara Bush's funeral? It seems as if there might have been discussion in the Bush family about why one and not the other.

MCBRIDE: I don't know exactly why. There isn't necessarily custom or tradition that every former president or every sitting president would go to a first lady's funeral.

BERMAN: That is true.

MCBRIDE: Although -- and if you remember when Nancy Reagan died, Mrs. Obama went, but President Obama didn't. So I'm willing to give him a pass on that one. But I think that it's the small club of presidents that I think it's important.

BERMAN: We have a picture from the time that I believe the last time that all living presidents were together was in president Obama's first year in office. I think it was shortly after he was inaugurated. There at an event at the White House.

MCBRIDE: That was right before. That was between the election and the inauguration. It was the transition period and George W. Bush thought it would be a good idea to have the former presidents together. And they had lunch in the ding room outside the Oval Office and had a really great visit.

CAMEROTA: It looks like they did. My gosh, what a warm photo.

MCBRIDE: That was a great transition.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It strikes me, looking at this, too, how much Bush 41 reveled at being president more than a political figure, that he had the relationships. He was a capable, experienced person on the world stage, valued relationships he had, really, around the globe were probably stronger than they were on Capitol Hill. He had some difficulties there, other things, but that he prided himself, as you said, in moments of reflection of being less visionary but more capable. Cautious in leading on the world stage in that way. But uncomfortable, in many ways, as a political figure in the rough and tumble politics. He did certain things to achieve results but I don't think was ever entirely comfortable with them in the end.

CAMEROTA: Back to the humor for a second. I got to see a little taste of the Maine humor as they say when I went up to interview him President Bush in I think August of 1999. He was talking about the difference in his golf game from when he was president to when he was no longer president and how he was treated. So listen to this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE H. W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, you know, when you're president, you'll have a putt this -- that's good, sir. Put it in your pocket. Today you get one out here like this. Hey, George, mind finishing it out? And it's not fair. Life's not fair. It's unfair. They should treat the office with respect. Little tiny putt like this. Put it in your pocket. But, no, that's not the way it worked, especially in my family with my sons. I play with my two governors and they're tough. They're mean out there, to a father that's done a lot for them. I don't think it's right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I'm not 100 percent sure he's even kidding. I don't think that's fully a joke.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: That is Maine humor right there. He obviously had a dry sense of humor.

[08:10:00] Bill, what do you think in terms of everything we've talked about, his graciousness, what is his legacy? He seems to me, you tell me, to be looked upon more kindly as an ex-president than as a president, and that somehow those were the teachable moments, after he was president.

KRISTOL: Yes, but I wouldn't underestimate his achievements as president in winding down the cold war successfully and peacefully. He built on what President Reagan had done. Those 12 years, and I would say the nine presidents who served from Truman through Bush, they had their flaws, God knows, they had their idiosyncrasies, they made mistakes, but I would say America was well-served. And we forget how dangerous a situation that was. That was not foreordained that we would win the cold war, that it would end both successfully and peacefully. And from Truman through Bush I think we were well served by those nine presidents.

And that was what really George H. W. Bush, Anita knows this better than I, that's what he thought that being president was. He couldn't believe, in a way, he was losing to Clinton in 92 because for him being president was being commander in chief. The rest of it, domestic policy was important, but a lot of it was done by the states and there was a business cycle and there was a limit to what you could control, and you tried to make incremental changes, which he did in the budget deal, the Clean Air Act, and the Americans with Disabilities Act. Those weren't little things. But still, for him, being president was managing the national security responsibilities of the United States. He thought he had done it well. He couldn't quite believe that some young governor from Arkansas was going to defeat him. But to be fair, the cold war was over, it was a new era and people thought, maybe correctly, that we needed that kind of foreign policy president less in those days.

BERMAN: A young governor from Arkansas, whom he consider a draft dodger at the time, he did, and would say it behind the scenes, but who he grew to love. There's no question he regarded Bill Clinton almost as a son.

KRISTOL: But once he became president, that's really the key to that letter. It was different. He may not have had a high opinion of Clinton as a candidate, but once you're president of the United States, that changes.

CHAVEZ: But I think we have to remember that Ross Perot was a factor in that election. And if Ross Perot had not been in that election, I think George Herbert Walker Bush would have been reelected.

BERMAN: It's interesting, though. The polls and exit polls have said different over the years. It's a matter for academics to debate. He never quite forgave Ross Perot and talked about him in any of the same ways he talked about other political rivals.

GREGORY: Because he knew him over the years and thought he was a nut over the years. But I think to your point, you have this passage of political dynasty to disruption. Pat Buchanan, challenging him, the disruption of Ross Perot as the Reagan revolution was starting to unravel a bit. And, of course, the unraveling of what was happening internationally, which he was such a good steward of, but it was the dawn of a new, very dangerous age for the world. And President Bush 41 held that together, managed that decline well, but it was also setting up for a dangerous period for the next two presidents and beyond.

CAMEROTA: OK, the business of Washington continues and the business of Robert Mueller. So the investigation, we think, continues apace. We heard some interesting things over the weekend, Bill. Roger Stone, adviser, or former adviser, friend of the president, there's been all sorts of questions about whether or not he communicated with WikiLeaks and Julian Assange. He has seemed to have said different things at different times to different people. So here he is, this weekend, explaining that relationship.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROGER STONE, FORMER ADVISER TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: I turned over one direct message to the House Intelligence Committee between the flack for WikiLeaks and I, in which he essentially brushed me off. That immediately leaked to "Atlantic" magazine who then edited the context and published it. I had no contact with Assange.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, but may Jerome Corsi, the intermediary did. I don't know what that proves.

KRISTOL: Between Stone and Manafort and Michael Cohen now totally cooperating, it does seem like Mueller is getting maybe closer to -- I think he knows everything already, but is closer to exposing everything, and we'll see what he learns.

Just one point thinking about Robert Mueller and George H. W. Bush, both patricians, both volunteered to serve in the wars of their generation when an awful lot of other people found ways, more essentially in the Vietnam case, obviously, found ways to avoid that. And I do think there's certain similarity in their dedication to public service, just thinking about Robert Mueller and George H. W. Bush.

CAMEROTA: That's a great point. George H. W. Bush, it was on his 18th birthday.

KRISTOL: In high school, finishing up prep school. And people forget that. I guess they got that wrong. President Trump's little note about President Bush shows what a different era it was. He went to volunteer to the Navy before he went to college. He served, he was shot down famously, was rescued, and then went to Yale. He was captain of the baseball team. BERMAN: He was a freshman with a wife and a kid.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BERMAN: In a New Haven apartment, at Yale, raising George W. Bush while he was a student there, which his remarkable to see. It's also a remarkable juxtaposition when you're dealing with the character surrounding to an extent the current president, the discussion about Roger Stone and Michael Cohen when we're dealing with the death of Bush 41.

MCBRIDE: I know, and actually I think this week where we're all -- everybody on all sides of the aisle are sort of reflecting on the character and the service of a great man who was a loyal friend, father, devoted to his country and a patriot. I think that hopefully that's an overarching sort of message for everybody, that you know, these are the good parts of our country and we can get back to that, and we need to.

DAVID GREGORY, POLITICAL ANALYST, CNN: But the work does go on and I think in this Mueller investigation, I think the interesting question for me, as we look at these - what could be final maneuverings, is to what extent was candidate Trump directly involved with these two figures, who might have been involved with Russia, with WikiLeaks? You have to imagine that that is really the question that Mueller wants the answer to.

JOHN BERMAN, HOST, NEW DAY: And we know that he's looking for those contacts because in the plea agreement with Jerome Corsi, we saw that it was noted that Roger Stone was in contact with President Trump. With Michael Cohen's plea, Michael Cohen saying, "I did talk to then candidate Trump."

GREGORY: And the business dealings, the prosecutors went out of their way to say more than they needed to about the Michael Cohen plea deal, talking about potential contacts with the Kremlin when they didn't have to put that as part of the plea deal, which suggests to lawyers I've talked to that that maybe be in response to the fact that Trump has said in written answers there were no contacts. So those business relations are very important.

BERMAN: All right, friends, thank you so much for the discussion. Really appreciate it. Our next guest protected George H.W. Bush as part of the Secret Service. He shares his fondest memories with us next.

[08:20:00]

BERMAN: In just hours, the casket of former President George H.W. Bush will arrive in Washington. The late 41st President will lie in state at the US Capitol until Wednesday, giving the public a chance to pay their respects. Joining me now is former Secret Service agent Pat O'Carroll. He was assigned to protect four US Presidents including George H.W. Bush. Pat, thanks so much for being with us and most importantly, you were actually were on security detail when he was Vice President, which gave you even more access, and in some ways, more informality.

PATRICK O'CARROLL, FORMER SECRET SERVICE: That's right, John. Being on the VP detail is usually just two or three agents with him. Unlike the President with hundreds of people around, it was much more informal, much more - I guess a laid back type of thing. So you got to know your protectee a lot better.

BERMAN: And you were around him for history, including driving him to the Capitol for the inauguration as Vice President in 1980?

O'CARROLL: Yes, that's correct, John. I had the assignment as a driver at that time and as an agent driver, I drove former President or Vice President Mondale to the Capitol and then drove back with the President or the new Vice President and Mrs. Bush.

BERMAN: And what did he say to Barbara in the car?

O'CARROLL: Well, it was kind of an interesting one and it's always remained with me. As we drove down Pennsylvania Avenue, the agent in charge turned back to the Vice President and said, "We're going to be opening up the roof in a couple of minutes," and he turned to Barbara Bush and the Vice President said, "Hey, babe, I told you I was going to take you places." And then the roof opened up. All the confetti started coming down and the rest is history.

BERMAN: So it's safe to say you enjoyed working for him?

O'CARROLL: Absolutely. He inspired me.

BERMAN: What was he like?

O'CARROLL: He was - I've got to say, a true gentleman. He was very friendly with everybody. I think that was probably the biggest point was that it didn't matter whether you were an agent, or you're a staff member or you're a member of Congress. He treated everybody the same and was a real gentleman.

BERMAN: And you have a story - first of all, we've all seen the pictures of the last few days, George H.W. Bush was an incredibly athletic man throughout his life and he liked to run. And you occasionally would have to run with him.

O'CARROLL: Yes, that was also, I guess, the other part that I really got to know the person was that as runners always do, you're always talking as you do it. So he would come down and say, "Hey, I want to go for a run and two agents would have running clothes with them. We'd jump in a car. We usually drive down to Rock Creek Park and run along the B&O Canal with - you know, the park police would block it off at the front and the back.

BERMAN: You had one particularly memorable run when it was I believe then Vice President Bush and also the Secretary of Agriculture?

O'CARROLL: Yes, that's right. What happened was that he came down, said he was going for a run. We picked up the Secretary of Agriculture. We drove to the towpath. Started running and he and the Secretary of Agriculture were talking about President Reagan and his policies towards the Soviet Union and it got down to whether or not should be exporting grains.

So as we are huffing and puffing, and running along, the Vice President turned to me and says, "Hey, Pat, what do you think, should we sell grain to the Soviet Union?" I've got to admit, I had all my equipment on and everything. I was huffing and puffing and I don't even remember how I answered.

BERMAN: Exactly, it wasn't what you were thinking at that point as you were trying to keep up with this six feet two inches guy who runs all the time with no equipment and you're there with your equipment.

Another story that you tell is you were with, again, Vice President Bush when he was flying to be at the White House after Ronald Reagan had been shot.

O'CARROLL: Well, a little bit different. What happened was that I was on the ground waiting for him to come back and I had been at the hospital. We were reporting what the circumstances were with President Reagan and we had learned that when the Vice President came back, he was going to chopper from Andrews Air Force Base into the White House. He then said that, "No, we don't land at the White House. Only the President lands at the White House."

So what happened was, we used the landing zone over by what is now, I guess, the World War II memorial. Landed there. We had park police, metropolitan police, and we did a big motorcade to the White House, got him there. But again it goes to show that he didn't want to deflect from the President at all.

BERMAN: How much did you really get to know the person that you were protecting or working to protect?

O'CARROLL: Well, you know, it's sort of interesting. The men and women of the Secret Service are around the protectees 24 hours a day. So there's always a sort of a sense of, you know - I guess the person that we're protecting. So everybody is professional all the time. But I think in different cases, ours is that you have a stronger feeling toward some protectees over other protectees.

And I'd say that with the Bush family, it was one of those stronger feelings, because everyone seemed to know them, they knew us. They appreciated the Secret Service being around and it was a very good relationship.

BERMAN: And just tell me how you felt when you heard the news. I don't know whether it was Friday night or early Saturday morning that he had passed.

[08:25:02]

O'CARROLL: I'll tell you. I did get it, you know, right as I was, I guess, waking up the other day. And I sat down and I started thinking about it. And I've got to say is that it made me reflect back on the fact that, you know, I used him as a model throughout my career. You know, his service to the public, the way that he treated people. Those are all things that I tried to model myself after.

So I've got to say, it was a great loss to lose him. And it was also, I guess sort of you know, we all knew it was kind of coming. So I had been thinking about it, ever since, you know, Mrs. Bush passed away, it's been kind of on my mind.

BERMAN: Pat O'Carroll, thank you so much for joining us and sharing these stories and thank you so much for your service over the years, too. Appreciate it.

O'CARROLLL: Well, thank you so much for being able to talk about a hero and a statesman.

BERMAN: Appreciate it, sir. Thank you. Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, HOST, NEW DAY: Now let's talk politics. Republican House members are facing a new reality in DC after Democrats flipped dozens of seats in the midterms. So will Republicans do anything to course correct in January? We have the answer.

All right, a blue wave helped Democrats gain 39 seats in the House during the midterms.

[08:30:10]