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Heisman Winner Kyler Murray Apologizes For Anti-Gay Tweets; Source Who Read Transcript Says Khashoggi's Last Words Were "I Can't Breathe"; CNN Reality Check: Historic Turnover Rate In Trump White House; U.S. Warms It May Leave Cold War Arms Treaty With Russia. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired December 10, 2018 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:30:52] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, just hours after winning college football's most prestigious award, Oklahoma quarterback Kyler Murray apologized for homophobic tweets he posted years ago. This comes just days after comedian Kevin Hart stepped down from hosting the Oscars after a series of anti-gay tweets and frankly, entire comedy routines resurfaced.

Joining me now is CNN contributor and "Washington Post" national political reporter Wesley Lowery.

Wes, is there a difference between what we see with Kyler Murray, who apologized very clearly yesterday after he won the Heisman -- is there a difference between what Kyler Murray is apologizing for and what Kevin Hart is now apologizing for?

WESLEY LOWERY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Certainly, and I tend to think so.

Now, there are two initial things up front. The first is that I think it's a very good thing that the way we talk in public as it relates to LGBT people has changed over the years. That language we might have used even just four or five years ago, we now kind of all accept we shouldn't use. I think that's a good thing societally.

Beyond that though, in the Kyler Murray case, this is a case of a young person -- a teenager sending tweets and jokes back and forth with their friends and then that teenager becoming a public figure.

It's a reminder to any kids who are watching before school this morning that look, if you become a public figure, delete all your old tweets, delete all your old Facebook posts because the jokes between your high school buddies aren't going to look so good when all of the sudden you have a massive platform.

What's different with Kevin Hart is that Kevin Hart's tweets and the things that he is now getting in trouble for aren't just tweets, it's also full comedy routines, segments of a stand-up comedy. These were jokes where he was already a celebrity -- a well-known comedian who was choosing to employ this type of language as part of his bit. And so, he was making a -- he was an adult making a conscious decision about what his comedy was, about his artwork, and that opens it up to fair scrutiny of whether or not it was insensitive or unfair.

BERMAN: It's an important point. I think there's a clear difference here between --

LOWERY: Of course.

BERMAN: -- a 14- and 15-year-old kid, although the advice I would give, besides deleting your tweets, is homophobic jokes aren't funny ever --

LOWERY: Yes, ever.

BERMAN: -- so don't make them.

And then, Kevin Hart, who had his it as part of his routine.

The thing that is interesting is that both ultimately apologized. And I think many people that we spoke to in the gay community were willing to welcome Kevin Hart to the Oscars if he acknowledged and apologized and decided to work with them and use this as a moment to discuss these issues.

I want to play what Michael Che said on "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE" because I think this is another interesting way to look at this discussion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL CHE, CO-ANCHOR, "WEEKEND UPDATE", NBC "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": Kevin Hart had to step down as host of the upcoming Academy Awards because of homophobic tweets from 2011. But didn't the Academy nominate Mel Gibson for an award just last year?

Also, if Kevin --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).

CHE: Thank you. I love it there's a black lady in the audience.

Also, if Kevin Hart isn't clean enough to host the Oscars, then no black comic is. The only black comic I know that's cleaner than Kevin Hart is booked for the three to 10 years. (Photo of Bill Cosby).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, Michael Che was making an interesting joke there and framing it around race. But if you -- if you take race out of it the issue is no one's perfect. No comedian is going to be perfect.

How do you find someone completely pure, and is there a way to apologize enough so that you could be welcomed back into the overall artistic community?

LOWERY: Certainly. I think that part of the issue here was Kevin Hart's initial refusal --

BERMAN: Yes.

LOWERY: -- to apologize, right? When this -- when this first came out he said I'm not apologizing -- basically, everyone should get over it -- and then quickly thought better of that and perhaps got some better counsel and then decided he was going to, right?

The reality is that anyone who has lived a public life, at some point, is probably going to find themselves encountered with something they said a few years earlier or decades earlier that perhaps in the current light doesn't that good.

And like I said earlier, especially around issues like -- around issues of how we refer to gay and lesbian brothers and sisters, I think that we've all societally changed and grown a lot in just the last decade, in the last few years in terms of our public understanding and societal acceptance.

And so, I think there has to be room for people, especially comedians whose job, in many ways, is to be provocative and to at times to not be politically correct. There has to be some room for that and for that artistic expression.

[07:35:00] But again, when confronted with something that's clearly offensive or that in today's light doesn't look or sound good, there's got to be a level of humility and a willingness to say --

BERMAN: Right.

LOWERY: -- hey, guys, I'm sorry about that. Maybe I wouldn't have sold that joke today.

BERMAN: Yes. I mean, Kevin Hart -- just to clear -- made jokes about not wanting his children to be gay. And it weren't just jokes. Again, it was entire --

LOWRY: Sure.

BERMAN: -- routine framed around that, which now he is apologizing for.

And a lot of it is show me what you're going to do about it now.

So, Kyler Murray -- you know, you could be a fantastic two-sport athlete. How are you going to talk about all of us going forward? About gay and straight people, going forward. Show us -- show us.

And with Kevin Hart, it's show us. Show us what you're going to do going forward.

LOWERY: Definitely. Well, of course. And again -- and that's the difference between these two cases, right?

So, you know, some back-and-forth that -- the language that a high- schooler is using, that's a space where someone is still learning, they're still growing. They're not -- they haven't figured out how they are.

The difference with Kevin Hart is that these -- this was a message that he was choosing to reinforce and to broadcast as a public figure, as a celebrity. This is -- that it's not just a bunch of people being sensitive.

The idea that someone prominent would talk or pretend to joke about not wanting their child to be gay reinforces a lot of the worst ideas about how homosexuality works. That this is some type of choice or that people are choosing this or that there's some type of -- your son is less masculine if he chooses to do that.

There's real potential damage there, much less potential damage about a 14-year-old a decade ago teasing his friends.

BERMAN: Wes Lowery, always great to have you on in the morning --

LOWERY: Yes.

BERMAN: -- and talk about this kind of thing because it's complicated and people need to be --

LOWERY: Yes.

BERMAN: -- I think, free to discuss it out in the open. Appreciate it, Wes.

LOWERY: Of course. Always happy to be here.

BERMAN: Alisyn --

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right.

Murdered journalist Jamal Khashoggi's chilling last words revealed. We have a CNN exclusive for you, next.

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[07:40:22] CAMEROTA: U.S. senators brief by the CIA on the murder of "Washington Post" columnist Jamal Khashoggi say they are horrified.

Now, a source has given CNN an exclusive briefing on that audio recording of Khashoggi's final moments. CNN's Nic Robertson was provided exclusive details of the transcript of that audio recording.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): CNN can now reveal Jamal Khashoggi's last words -- "I can't breathe, I can't breathe."

ROBERTSON (on camera): These previously undisclosed details of what happened that afternoon in October come from a source who has been briefed on the investigation. The source has read a full transcript of an audio recording of Khashoggi's horrific final moments. ROBERTSON (voice-over): Within moments of his fateful steps into the consulate, Khashoggi recognizes someone, asks why they are there. The answer, "You are coming back."

According to CNN's source, the Turkish transcript identifies that person as Maher Abdulaziz Mutreb, a former Saudi diplomat and intelligence official working for Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, whom Khashoggi knew. Khashoggi is clearly alarmed and replies, "You can't do that. People are waiting outside for me."

ROBERTSON (on camera): According to the source, the conversation ends right there. The transcript indicates noises as people set upon Khashoggi. And very quickly, Khashoggi can be heard saying "I can't breathe." He repeats it again, "I can't breathe, I can't breathe."

ROBERTSON (voice-over): What happens belies initial Saudi claims his death was a grave mistake. CNN's source says it's clear from his reading of the transcript Khashoggi's murder was no botched rendition attempt, but the execution of a premeditated plan to murder the journalist.

But it is what happens next that is really horrific. The transcript records many voices and noises, then says "scream" from Jamal. Again, "scream" then "gasping." Noises are identified as "saw" and "cutting."

Then a voice Turkish authorities identify as Dr. Salah Muhammad al- Tubaiqi, the head of forensic medicine at Saudi Arabia's Interior Ministry. He says, "If you don't like the noise, put your earphones in or listen to music, like me."

ROBERTSON (on camera): According to the source, Mutreb, the apparent leader of the team, makes at least three phone calls during the murder to a number Turkish officials identify as being in the Saudi royal court. Only Mutreb's side of the conversation can be heard but there is no sense of panic or of an operation gone wrong.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Mutreb tells the person in Riyadh, "Tell yours" that the source takes to mean your boss or your senior, "the thing is done -- it's done."

ROBERTSON (on camera): CNN reached out to Saudi officials to get a response from those named in this report and were told Saudi security officials have reviewed the transcript and tape and nowhere in them is there any reference or indication of a call being made. A Saudi source close to the Saudi investigation says both Mutreb and Tubaiqi deny making phone calls.

And while the transcript provides no smoking gun directly tying Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman to the killing, it seems to echo Sen. Lindsey Graham's sentiments after hearing the CIA's assessment of Khashoggi's killing. "There's not a smoking gun, there's a smoking saw."

(END VIDEOTAPE) CAMEROTA: OK, so our -- CNN shared our source's detailed description with the office of a senator who was briefed by the CIA early this week and we were told that the CNN report of the transcript was consistent with the briefing that the senator received.

And CNN's international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson joins us live now.

Nic, it's chilling. I mean, everything that you have learned, that the source has revealed to you is just even more chilling than we could have imagined.

[07:45:00] So why are the Saudis disputing that that phone call was made?

ROBERTSON: Yes, and look, the phone call is the thing that ties this operation very clearly and very closely to Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

As we heard over the weekend from Sen. Lindsey Graham, he said there is a ton of intelligence -- those were his words -- a ton of intelligence that supports that this group there sent to kill Khashoggi were working for the crown prince.

This idea that there wasn't a phone call seems to be a very weak defense inasmuch as the source says that it's very clear that there's a phone call. And this is the working hypothesis of the transcript that this was a phone call because you only hear one half of the conversation, and it was discorded with all the other conversations going on in the room. That this was very clear it was to somebody else who wasn't responding.

A ton of intelligence supporting this says Sen. Lindsey Graham.

CAMEROTA: Nic, thank you for all of the excellent reporting on this. We appreciate it -- John.

BERMAN: All right.

So if you feel like the revolving door at the White House is spinning a bit more quickly lately, you are right. And, in fact, the rate of turnover in President Trump's White House is not just high, it's historic.

CNN senior political analyst John Avlon joins us now with a reality check -- sir.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That's right, John.

A fine-tuned machine -- that's how President Trump often describes his administration. But we've seen major turnover at senior levels, always denied at first by the administration.

But as of today, Trump turnover stands at 62 percent, according to Brookings. That's more than in the first two years than any modern president and that's just counting the executive office of the president. When you start including cabinet secretaries and others, the list becomes unusual.

Attorney general Jeff Sessions, FBI director Jim Comey, national security advisers Michael Flynn and H.R. McMaster, U.N. ambassador Nikki Haley, communications director Scaramucci, and Hope Hicks. Add to that, Steve Bannon, Reince Priebus, Sean Spicer, Tom Price, Rob Porter, Scott Pruitt, Don McGahn, Omarosa. The list goes on and on and on.

And the latest in this very long episode of 'As the West Wing Turns' is chief of staff John Kelly. But just a few months ago, President Trump asked Kelly to stay on through 2020. And last month, Trump called all reports of internal discord between them fake news.

But now he's sounding a little more like Emily Litella.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GILDA RADNER, PORTRAYING FICTIONAL CHARACTER EMILY LITELLA, NBC "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": Never mind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: Now that Kelly's out, Trump has achieved another first -- the most chiefs of staff in the first two years in office -- that's right. Since the chief of staff became an official position under Harry Truman, Trump will become the first to have three in his first two years.

And because there's a Trump tweet for everything, here's a gem from 2012. Quote, "Three chief of staffs in less than three years of being president. Part of the reason why Barack Obama can't manage to pass his agenda."

And even that's misleading. President Obama's first chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, served from Inauguration Day through October 2010 when he resigned to run for mayor of Chicago.

Then, Pete Rouse came in, explicitly as an interim solution for just three months before Bill Daley came in for a year.

Hello, losing a chief of staff is a big deal -- even one who has been quoted by Bob Woodward as calling you an "unhinged idiot who runs his White House like a crazy town."

The larger pattern is the problem.

Now, Kelly was a charter member of the so-called "Axis of Adults" who were brought in to steady the leaking ship (ph) from state. The group included National Security adviser McMaster, Secretary of State Tillerson, and Defense Sec. Mattis. Well, come the new year, only Mattis will be left.

And speaking of Tillerson, he just gave his first extended interview since leaving the White House and it was a doozy. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REX TILLERSON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: A man who is pretty undisciplined, doesn't like to read. I'd have to say to him well, Mr. President, I understand what you want to do but you can't do it that way. It violates the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: It violates the law.

Now, the president, of course, returned fire, calling his former chief diplomat "dumb as a rock" and "lazy as hell." I can't imagine why President Trump seems to have trouble filling open positions.

But anyone concerned about the c-team heading onto the field got a taste of coming attractions with the appointment of State Department spokeswoman and former "FOX & FRIENDS" Heather Nauert as U.N. ambassador. If she's confirmed that would bring the number of former FOX employees and contributors who wound up in the Trump administration to at least eight.

And that's your reality check.

CAMEROTA: Oh my gosh, John, when you put it all in one place it's really helpful to see the amount of turnover. It's not that he only hires the best people -- or he later recants, I guess, in terms of his feelings about them.

Thank you very much.

BERMAN: And you say that as the future secretary of Agriculture, so thank you.

CAMEROTA: I'm angling for ambassador to Italy.

Meanwhile, the Trump administration is accusing Russia of violating a nuclear treaty. What now?

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[07:53:51] CAMEROTA: Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has an ultimatum for Russia -- destroy dozens of long-range missiles in accord with the decades-old Cold War treaty or the U.S. will pull out altogether.

Joining us now to help us understand this is CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger. He writes about this very issue in "The New York Times" today. David, great to see you.

So, is Russia violating this treaty or is the U.S. using this as a justification somehow to blow up the treaty?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: I think both may well be true. They've been violating the treaty, Alisyn, since about 2013 and they have begun to deploy a good number of weapons that fall into this intermediate range. They were banned back in 1987 in a deal between Ronald Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev after a great period of tension in Europe. It was just before the Soviet Union dissolved. And this was a great relief to Europe that they were no longer under the threat of these nuclear missiles that the Soviets had been deploying that were clearly aimed at European capitals.

[07:55:00] But today, the problem is so much harder, Alisyn, because back then the only two countries that had a significant number of these missiles were the United States and Russia. Today, China has them, India has them, Iran, North Korea. We found about 10 countries that are deploying these, most of them in Asia, and that's mostly what the Trump administration is worried about.

CAMEROTA: Well, there you go. I mean, maybe the Trump administration is correct that this is an outdated Cold War treaty that needs to be updated to incorporate all of those other countries.

SANGER: They could well be right on that. In fact, I think they are.

China now has far more than Russia ever did. In fact, these missiles -- the missiles that would fall into this treaty's limitations are 95 percent of China's missile arsenal. But, China was never a member of the treaty.

And what was missing when we went out to go do the reporting and when we listened to briefings that the administration provided last week after they did this ultimatum with President Putin, was that there is no diplomatic plan right now for trying to expand the limitations to all the new countries that now have these weapons. And, in fact, what it looks like is the administrations must be free of the Russian treaty that then began to build up.

Now, maybe they'll start an initiative later but it wouldn't be really like the Trump administration, which seems to want to be free of treaties, not to be constrained by them.

CAMEROTA: I mean, obviously, the worrisome possible scenario down the road is an arms race.

SANGER: That's exactly right.

Now, many in the Trump administration would say that arms race is happening anyway, just without us. That the Chinese are building up, the Iranians and others. Why should the U.S. be limited in countering them?

The fact of the matter is we have a nuclear force that can reach each of these countries with all kinds of other weapons and this treaty only covers ground-based weapons -- not anything that's on a ship. So we have all kinds of options that many other countries do not.

But, you know, I think that when you step back from this, Alisyn, the big issue is this. That for 30-35 years we've been reducing the number of nuclear weapons that we and the Russians have and many other countries, of course, have come into this along the way. We could be at that inflection point where the United States starts building up its numbers again.

That's exactly where we thought we weren't headed eight or 10 years ago when President Obama was saying he wanted to reduce the role of nuclear weapons in American national security. It looks like that's being reversed.

CAMEROTA: I mean, right. Just when you don't need another thing --

SANGER: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- to be nerve-wracked about -- something that seemed to have been put to bed.

Here's what Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State, has said about why they are questioning all of this, on December fourth. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: While Russia is responsible for the demise of the treaty, many other states, including China, North Korea, and Iran, are not parties to the INF treaty. This leaves them free to build all the intermediate-range missiles that they would like.

There is no reason the United States should continue to see this crucial military advantage to revisionist powers like China, in particular when these weapons are being used to threaten and coerce the United States and its allies in Asia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: David, we only have a few seconds left. What's next?

SANGER: Well, the interesting question is whether there's diplomacy next. I mean, I think you'll see them deploy this against China.

On the Russia side, Alisyn, you're really seeing one of the policy implications of the Russia inquiry and scandals here because it's frozen the president's ability to engage with President Putin on critical issues like this.

CAMEROTA: David Sanger, thank you very much for sharing all of your reporting with us. Great to see you.

SANGER: Great to be with you.

CAMEROTA: John --

BERMAN: Yes. So, on the subject of Russia, let's get to our big story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: He may be the first president to face the real prospect of jail time.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: It's a miscarriage of justice. We should not have special prosecutors going after one person.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The key phrase is "directed by Individual 1." Directed by implicates the president in a felony.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: No one should be above the law. We deserve the truth.

LARRY KUDLOW, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: It's been a long two years for Gen. Kelly. Perhaps it is time for a rest.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was internal resistance to Ayers from senior staff that went beyond Ayers reluctancy to take the job for the long haul.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump definitely feels comfortable with Meadows, but whether the political chemistry is there it's a little hard to tell right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

CAMEROTA: OK, good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is a very busy Monday. It is December 10th, 8:00 here in the east.

And we do begin with a presidency in peril. For the first time since taking the oath of office, President Trump is directly implicated in the commission of federal crimes -- crimes that the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee calls, quote, "impeachable offenses."