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No Confidence Vote Brewing for British P.M. Amid Brexit Turmoil; Michael Cohen to Be Sentenced Today in New York; Trump: 'I'm Not Concerned' About Being Impeached. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired December 12, 2018 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: She does feel that she's going to get it. She has said this morning everything is at stake, if there is a leadership contest it will put the Brexit deal in jeopardy. Britain could leave without a deal in place that could really hurt the economy and have a knockdown effect in Europe.

[07:00:22] A lot in play. But right now, this is the weekly prime minister question time. The prime minister faces questions for about half an hour. Raucous is what it can be. Cutting it can be.

We've seen Theresa May withstand barrages of almost abusive questions from some MPs for hours at a time in -- in the House of Parliament there that we're watching now.

And this is what we can expect for Theresa May coming up. She will undoubtedly give a defense of her position. The first person to speak after that will be the leader of the opposition, Jeremy Corbyn. After that you very likely will get a question from the Scottish National Party, the leader there. They have 35 MPs in Parliament.

But really, today is all about that secret ballot in about six hours' time. We have a lot of senior MPs tweeting their support for Theresa May. But of course, what they say in tweets may not reflect how they vote in that secret ballot.

BERMAN: Nic, we're watching this very closely. And what you see on the screen here is the House of Commons, some 650 seats there. This is sort of the normal level of mayhem. If this is 10, it could go to 12 or 15 very shortly, as soon as Theresa May starts taking questions.

You know there's a secret ballot inside the conservative party which will determine her fate. She could still win, correct? But the margin be so close that she'd be damaged, perhaps fatally, correct?

ROBERTSON: Yes, that's at stake. If she doesn't get a large margin, and that could leave her weakened. However, this is double jeopardy. If she wins the vote --

CAMEROTA: Nic, sorry to interrupt you.

ROBERTSON: Challenge in leadership contest.

CAMEROTA: Theresa May has just taken the podium, and she's about to take questions. Let's listen. THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: -- will be with all those caught up in the horrific incident in Strasbourg last night. We stand ready to give whatever support the French authorities may need.

Mr. Speaker today I will have meetings, possibly many meetings with ministerial colleagues and others.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, McCarthy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So just a normal day in the office, then, Prime Minister.

I would also want to share the condolences for the tragic events in the beautiful city of Strasbourg.

Last year the prime minister told us that there wasn't going to be a general election, and then there was. This week, she told us she wasn't going to pull the meeting for vote, and then she did.

Can I ask her now if she's going to rule out having a general election and the peoples' vote?

MAY: Yes, can I -- can I say to the honorable lady, first of all, that I think that a general election at this point in time would not be in the national interest in the middle of our -- and secondly -- and secondly, and secondly, as you would have heard me say before in this House, I think we should respect the result of the referendum that took place in 2016.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Nigel Mills.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Given what we could call about uncertainty about the future of the withdrawal agreement, could the prime minister give people some certainty. That's E.U. nationals in the U.K. Whatever happens to that deal, they will be allowed to stay on roughly the same terms as are in that draft agreement?

MAY: Well, my honorable friend raises an important point, because I know that E.U. nationals living here in the United Kingdom will be concerned about what might happen if a deal in the circumstances, if a deal is not agreed.

We've been very clear as a government, obviously, the withdrawal agreement that we've agreed does respect the rights, and protect and guarantee the rights of E.U. citizens living here. But in the unlikely event of no deal, I've been clear that this government will still protect E.U. citizen's rights. We would wish -- we would wish to know -- we'd with to know that, actually, all the E.U. governments would respect the rights of U.K. citizens living in the E.U., as well. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jeremy Corbyn.

JEREMY CORBYN, LEADER OF THE LABOUR PARTY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'm sure the whole House will join me and joining the prime minister in condemning the shootings in Strasbourg and extending our sympathies to the families of those that have been killed or injured there.

Mr. Speaker, I'm delighted to see the prime minister back in her place after her little journey. Having told the meeting this morning -- having told the meeting this morning that she's made progress, can she now update the House on what changes she has secured to her deal?

MAY: -- gentleman, I did travel to Europe yesterday and meet a number of heads of government in the commission and the European Union Council. That's precisely because I had listened to concerns that were raised in this House and have taken those concerns to Europe. And no one is in any -- no one that I met yesterday is in any doubt about the strength of concern there is in this House on this issue of the duration of the backstop.

[07:05:09] But I'm interested that the right honorable gentleman wants to know what progress we have made, because actually, the right honorable gentleman couldn't care less what I bring back from Brussels, because he's been clear -- he's been clear, whatever comes back from Brussels, he's going to vote against it, because all he wants to do is to create chaos in our economy.

Damage. Damage, division in our society, and damage to our economy. That's Labour. That's Corbyn.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jeremy Corbyn.

CORBYN: It's very clear, Mr. Speaker, nothing has changed.

If she needed -- if she needed any clarification, Mr. Speaker, if she needed any clarification about the temporary nature of the backstop, she needn't have gone to Europe. She could have just asked her attorney general, who said it endures indefinitely.

As the prime minister may recall, when she left -- when she left on her journey, we were about to start day four of a five-day debate on the deal. Since the prime minister has not achieved any changes either to withdrawal agreement or the future partnership, can she now confirm that we will have the concluding days of debate and votes within the next seven days before the House rises for the Christmas recess?

MAY: The right honorable gentlemen, I had discussions with a number of people yesterday; and I have made some progress. But there is further -- but of course is an E.U. Council meeting. There are further discussions to be held.

He asks about the meaningful vote. The meaningful vote has been deferred. And the date of that vote will be announced in the normal way. The business motion will be agreed and discussed in the usual way.

But -- but whatever he says, I'll tell members on the other side when we've had a meaningful vote. We had it in the referendum in 2016, and it's -- and if he -- and if he wants a meaningful date, I'll give him one. The 29th of March 2019 when we leave the European Union.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jeremy Corbyn.

CORBYN: Totally and absolutely unacceptable in this House and anywhere! This House -- this House agreed a program motion. This House agreed the five days of debate. This House agreed when the vote was going to take place.

The government tried to unilaterally pull that and deny this House the chance of a vote on this crucial matter. The prime minister and the government have already been found to be in contempt of Parliament. Her behavior today is just contemptuous of this Parliament and of this process.

Mr. Speaker, the Parliament's appalling behavior needs to be held to account by this House as, indeed, the people of this country are more and more concerned about the ongoing chaos at the center of her government. When she made her Lancaster --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Order. Order. Order. Calm on both sides of the House. The -- order! The questions will be heard however long it takes, and so will the answers. Don't try to shout down. All you do is wear out your voices, and you won't succeed. Amen. End of subject.

Jeremy Corbyn?

CORBYN: Mr. Speaker, when the prime minister made her Lancaster House speech, she set out her negotiating objectives, and they're worth looking at and quoting.

The first objective is crucial. We'll provide certainty wherever we can. Does the current situation look or feel like certainty? Can the prime minister mark her own homework on this matter?

MAY: And indeed, we have at every stage. At every stage.

The right honorable gentleman said we wouldn't get agreement in December. We did. He said we wouldn't get the implementation period in March. We did.

He said we wouldn't get a withdrawal agreement and a political declaration, and we -- and we did. Concerns -- concerns are being raised -- concerns are being raised about the backstop. And as I said, we continue those discussions. And no one yesterday was left in any doubt about the strength of feeling in this House.

But of course, we all know what the right honorable gentlemen's answer to the backstop is. Ignore the referendum and stay in the European Union.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jeremy Corbyn?

[07:10:00] CORBYN: If there's an agreement, why won't the prime minister put that agreement to a vote of this House?

The federation of small businesses says planning ahead is impossible. Many, many other people around this country find planning ahead impossible, because all they see is chaos at the heart of government and an inability to plan anything for the future.

Yesterday the cross-party select committee, including conservative MPs for the committee for the departing -- exiting the European Union, unanimously found the prime minister's deal -- and I quote -- fails to offer sufficient clarity or certainty about the future.

Will the prime minister give the country at least some certainty and categorically rule out the option of no deal?

MAY: The way to ensure there is no "no deal," is to agree a deal. That's the way to ensure there's a deal. But the -- the right -- the right honorable gentleman -- the right honorable gentleman talks about the impact on businesses.

I'll tell you what will have an impact on businesses up and down this country. What we learned just a few days ago, that the shadow chancellor wants to change the law so that --

CAMEROTA: All right. You have been watching British Prime Minister Theresa May field questions. I think raucous is an understatement of what we've been listening to there.

I mean, you hear passion on both sides. It's a deadly serious issue, obviously, about how England -- how U.K. is going to exit from Europe, but at times, it did have a Monty Python quality to it with all of the sort of loud, raucous jeering from the gallery there.

BERMAN: This is full-throttle politics on display, and this is how they do it. They test their leaders. Their prime minister has to face questions in Parliament from both parties. You were seeing Jeremy Corbyn right there, who's head of the Labour party, the chief opposition. He is debating her --

CAMEROTA: I see that. How many questions does he get?

BERMAN: I believe this is -- this can go on for hours. This can go on for hours and hours.

The policy debate that we're watching here, though, has to do with Brexit. There was a referendum in the U.K. They voted to leave the European Union. Theresa May has charged with figuring a way -- out a way how to do that, and she hasn't been able to yet find a way that has the support of the Parliament.

Let's bring in CNN chief international anchor Christiane Amanpour.

Christiane, again, we love watching the theater here, but this is more than theater. This is the future of the United Kingdom, the future, to an extent, of the European Union very much at stake today.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: You know what? It absolutely is. But also, if you watch it, knowing the pressure that Prime Minister Theresa May is under, you have to take your hat off to her.

She's defiant and she's carrying on as yet nobody has mentioned the leadership contest which she faces, and that will start to be enacted at 6 p.m. our time. This is 1 p.m. Eastern time. That secret ballot will start to take effect.

This is, essentially, her being defiant, saying that she's going to fight back with all that it has. But more importantly, saying that "if you do not agree to this deal that I brought back, you who voted for Brexit have a serious risk of watching it simply disintegrate and not happen."

And let's not forget that, even though this unbelievable drama of this jousting, this verbal jousting across the box there between the leader of the opposition and the prime minister, Jeremy Corbyn has it in his power to call a vote of no confidence in the government and to bring it down and call a general election. He has not done that. He doesn't have any plan to do that, so you have to ask why.

So you've really got this situation where you've got so much political drama, many would say political dysfunction. And all the leaders kind of running away from what most dispassionate civil service people would say is the only way to have a Brexit deal that does not damage the U.K. economy, that does fulfill the referendum and takes the U.K. out of the E.U.

And that is, OK, more soft than the terrible disastrous scenario alternative that would be a cliff edge, that would be jumping off the cliff at the end of March 2019 without a deal. Those are the options currently.

Of course, those are further into the hinterland and would like to add another option, and that is a second referendum. So all of these issues are on the table right now.

CAMEROTA: And I think that we just heard her say, no, that she did not support another referendum, another vote.

AMANPOUR: She doesn't.

CAMEROTA: Right. Go ahead.

AMANPOUR: She doesn't, but many, many people do. An increasing number of people on the street do, and a load of people in Parliament do. They don't have a majority right now, but there's a huge momentum and people are on the streets, as you've seen in the U.K., in London weekend after weekend recently on -- you know, on both sides of this argument.

[07:15:08] And the truth of the matter is -- and she keeps saying it -- you who want a different outcome -- and she's talking to her own party as much as to the opposition -- tell me your plan, write down your plan. There is no plan.

The hardline Brexiters have no enumerated plan. Hers is a plan that's being bought off and signed off on by the 27 other leaders of the E.U. And of course, she's having a lot of difficulty over the so-called backstop, this insurance policy that they hope will keep an invisible border in the most crucial area, and that is between the Republic of Ireland, which belongs to the E.U., and Northern Ireland, which is technically -- well, it is still a part of the U.K.

So -- so that is basically what she's saying. The hardline Brexiters, the fanatics in her own party -- and I'm using language that other politicians are using -- do not have a plan.

BERMAN: And that's what is happening today. You're seeing a revolt within her own party. If she survives that, there's still a question about whether or not her government can survive. That's what you're helping about with Jeremy Corbyn.

AMANPOUR: Right.

BERMAN: But Christiane, the people that I talk to in the U.K., as we're watching this, the part of it that's bleak is that no one sees a path. There isn't much of a clear path out of this that can get a majority support.

There's no Brexit deal that can get a majority support. There's no "no deal" that can get a majority support. There is this stasis, this sort of -- they're in quagmire right now.

AMANPOUR: Well, and the stasis, John and Alisyn, is possibly one of the most dangerous sort of moments. Because stasis and no action by Parliament means the default on March 29 is no deal. It's what we call a cliff edge. There's simply no rules, regulation, you know, rules of the road that would govern how the U.K. has any relationships with the E.U.

So anything, from trade to supply lines to also sorts of issues, just getting medicine into the country, getting food into the country, all of that will be open to, you know, interpretation and improvisation, if indeed -- not to mention the economy falling into recession, which is what economists are predicting in a worst-case scenario. So all of that.

The fact of the matter is that, you're right, there is no majority for that, but as I say, simply refusing to act by Parliament would lead to that.

On the other hand, the deal that she has brought back from the European Union, apart from this issue of the backstop, which the hardline Brexiteers hate, the DUP, which is her backers in Northern Ireland, hate, and others say is unworkable, all the other issues are what many in the civil service here tell me are the only way that Britain can leave the E.U. and still maintain not the quality of life we have now, not the level of economic activity we have now, but the least worst option for peoples' livelihoods, for people's lives and for Britain as a player interacting, still, with Europe and the rest of the world, because the stakes are really, really high.

And the truth of the matter is that this whole vote that happened in 2016 happened on a wing and a prayer and with a huge amount of policy ignorance in the air. It was just a load of boasts and wishful thinking and promises from the Brexiteers that were not written down, that did not have any evidence to back them up. And so this is -- this is the problem right now, that the people, in

an emotional vote and in a feeling of pain of austerity and feeling that they weren't listened to, made that vote, but they didn't really know the nuts and bolts of what they were voting for.

CAMEROTA: Right, yes. Yes, and here we are.

AMANPOUR: And this is the situation.

CAMEROTA: Christiane, thank you very much for giving us all the context and telling us just how high-stakes what we're watching play out there is. Thank you very much.

AMANPOUR: Thank you, Alisyn.

Thank you, John.

BERMAN: This will go on, we think -- she usually takes questions for about 30 minutes, and then she usually departs. I don't know if today will be a special day and it will go on longer. We're watching it very closely. We're watching the financial markets. They are deeply concerned.

CAMEROTA: It does not seem like it's winding down.

BERMAN: No.

CAMEROTA: President Trump's longtime personal attorney, Michael Cohen, will be sentenced just hours from now here in New York. He's facing years in prison, and prosecutors have spelled out that the president directed him to make hush-money payments. We discuss all that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:23:30] BERMAN: Among everything else going on on planet Earth today, it is sentencing day for Michael Cohen. This is the president's long-time attorney, his longtime fixer. He will be the first member of the president's inner circle who gets a prison term, perhaps a lengthy prison term.

In a new interview with Reuters, President Trump says he's not concerned about this, and specifically, he says he's not concerned about being impeached. And he dismisses all the contacts between Russians and 16 of his close associates before and during the 2016 campaign. He calls it "peanut stuff."

Joining us now is Reuters White House correspondent, Jeff Mason, who conducted that interview, along with Steve Holland, with the president yesterday. Also with us, CNN chief legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.

Jeff Mason, I want to start with you, because there's a lot that came out of this interview between you and the president. We have that peanut stuff comment, and we have the issue of impeachment.

Now, the "I" word has been swirling around the White House for some time, and people who talk to the president rightfully do question him. But there is this notion that it's bugging him. Did it seem to you that this was bothering him? Is this a specter that he sees out there as a real threat?

JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: Well, his answer to that, at least verbally, was no. He said that it would be difficult to impeach someone who has done nothing wrong, and he listed the accomplishments that he's very proud of since being in office: from the Supreme Court to getting other judicial nominees on the court, to deregulation, to the economy. And I pressed him again, and I said, "So, is this on your radar?"

And he says, "No, I'm not concerned."

[07:25:06] So that's what he's saying. I mean, the reality is there is reason for concern, because Democrats, as you know, will be taking over the House of Representatives in January, and that's a very real possibility, that impeachment is something that they will pursue.

CAMEROTA: Here's another thing that was brought up in that interview, Jeffrey, and I want to ask you and your legal mind about this. The president was asked about the campaign finance violations, for which -- part of the reason that Michael Cohen is probably going to prison today, and at first, you know, he said he knew nothing about it, as you'll recall months ago the president said that.

Well, yesterday, here is how he explained the payments, the hush-money payments to the women, Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal: "No. 1, it wasn't a campaign contribution. If it were, it's only civil, and even if it's only civil, there was no violation based on what we did. OK?"

Well, tell that to Michael Cohen, who may be facing prison time. How do you interpret the president's interpretation of it not being a crime?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it is -- it is a defense, as -- if he's ever charged with -- with this sort of -- with involvement in the criminal conduct.

His problem is, the president's problem is, is Michael Cohen has acknowledged it was a campaign contribution, and he has acknowledged it was illegal, and he knew it. And the broader question is, for whose benefit did this crime take place? It wasn't for Michael Cohen's benefit. Why would Michael Cohen do this, except he had been told to do it by the person who is the real beneficiary of it?

And remember the timing of these two payments. They were right on the eve of this election, so they could have been -- they were to prevent extremely damaging disclosures on the eve of the 2016 election.

CAMEROTA: Right. But is it only a civil crime? Is it not a criminal crime?

TOOBIN: Well, I mean, that's up to prosecutors. I mean, it is true that many violations of campaign finance law are treated civilly, but some of them are treated criminally. Prosecutors in the Southern District of New York decided this one should be treated criminally. But it is -- it's not up to the person who commits the violation to decide whether it's civil or criminal. It's up to prosecutors.

BERMAN: So Jeffrey, in your interview -- and again, I read the transcript -- to try to figure out how legally sound the president's answers were -- and you tried to press him a little bit on the idea of whether or not he directed and coordinated with Michael Cohen and also the issue of whether or not he knew that these expenditures would be campaign finance violations, and he seemed to try to not answer those questions.

MASON: Yes, that's true. And the context of the discussion about Michael Cohen was a question that I asked him about. You know, "Had you discussed with Michael Cohen campaign finance laws?"

And you're right, he sort of used that question to bring attention to Hillary Clinton, his 2016 opponent, instead. And he also said that Michael Cohen was a lawyer, that Michael Cohen was someone he relied on, and Michael Cohen should have known what he was doing. And then he followed that up later by saying that his lawyers now say Michael Cohen did not do anything wrong, or that they didn't do anything wrong with that.

So it was a sort of multi-facetted response.

BERMAN: Yes.

MASON: He said Cohen should have known what he was doing, it wasn't a criminal problem, and if it was a problem at all, it would be civil, but it wasn't a problem. And hey, everybody, look at Hillary Clinton. What she did was far worse.

BERMAN: I say --

TOOBIN: And by the way --

BERMAN: Go ahead, Counselor.

TOOBIN: If this ever were to come to some sort of legal proceeding, the president could make that argument. And that is not a bad argument, that "Hey, I was dealing with a lawyer. I assumed he knew what the law was, and I just followed his legal advice."

Now, there are counter arguments there that, you know, it just was too obvious that, even though a lawyer was telling you that. But in fairness to the president, advice of counsel is sometimes a defense in white-collar cases.

BERMAN: But reading that carefully --

MASON: He used the word "reliance" repeatedly, that "I was relying on him. It's called relying on your attorney." So that was definitely in his -- in his vocabulary in response to this question.

BERMAN: That's interesting.

MASON: That was something he wanted to emphasize.

BERMAN: That's interesting to me. That indicates to me that he knew exactly what he was saying there, and he was trying to find a legal way out of this; because he didn't deny coordinating with and directing. It didn't seem he was denying, you know, coordinating with and directing. And he didn't answer directly the notion of whether or not he knew the law.

MASON: Well, and he used the word -- and you showed this in the quote that you just referred to -- he used the word "we," you know, "what we did," so that -- that was an acknowledgment that it was he and Michael Cohen together.

CAMEROTA: Hey, Jeffrey, when Michael Cohen is sentenced today and gets somewhere between three and five years in prison, as is expected, is this a cautionary tale for any of the other players in and around the Russia investigation? Or is Michael Cohen's case so unique because of his tax evasion and his taxi business, that it really isn't transferable, what's happening to him?