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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
UK Opposition Leader Tables No Confidence Motion; Demonstrations Against Right-Wing Government Turn Violent in Hungary; Michael Cohen Has Directly Implicated Trump in Felony Crimes. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired December 17, 2018 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani. Tonight, British Prime Minister Theresa May faces a
second no confidence motion in less than a week. Can she survive this one?
Also, this hour in Hungary, lawmakers thrown out of state television in Budapest. Protests against the government. We'll get the spoke person's
response live in the program.
We begin in the U.K. where it's been yet another day of Brexit chaos and political turmoil with prime minister Theresa May's Brexit deal in danger
and her political future in question yet again. Just in the last hour, the leader of the opposition Jeremy Corbyn announced that his party will table
a no confidence motion in the prime minister because Mrs. May has delayed a vote in parliament on her Brexit deal. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, PRIME MINISTER, UNITED KINGDOM: I'm about to table a motion which says the following. That this house has no confidence in the prime
minister due to her failure to allow the House of Commons to have a meaningful vote straightaway on the withdrawal agreement and framework for
future relationships between the U.K. and the European Union and that will be tabled immediately, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Chaos, gridlock, most of all, uncertainty. The implications of this announcement by Corbyn. I'm joined by two guests. Bianca, what are
the practical implications of this announcement?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very little because technically this is a non-legally binding motion of little statutory impact or none. But it's
being reported that the labor party saying if you don't allow us to have a vote of this motion of no confidence in the prime minister and unheard of,
usually no confidence in the government as a whole, then they will escalate to call for the vote of no confidence in the government rather than the
prime minister herself. It looks like it's potentially embarrassing and I would say in the last couple of minutes euro skeptics that traditionally
oppose the prime minister, the types that voted against her in a confidence vote last week, have said we'll be voting with the prime minister, voting
with the government.
GORANI: What is Corbyn doing here, Quentin?
QUENTIN PEEL, ASSOCIATE FELLOW OF THE EUROPE PROGRAM AT CHATHAM HOUSE AND "FINANCIAL TIMES" COMMENTATOR: I think he's -- partly it's theater.
Partly he's trying to escalate the rhetoric but there's not that much substance here. Having said that, precisely the point she's just made. He
actually is exposing all those Conservatives who only a week ago said they didn't have confidence in their own leader. If it comes to a vote and then
they vote they have confidence in her what on earth are they trying to prove? He will show up if you like that hypocrisy within the conservative
GORANI: What's the end game for Corbyn? He wants another general election. Is this his strategy to get there?
NOBILO: Labour's position isn't clear and I think that's why today in the chamber when Jeremy Corbyn was criticizing the prime minister there's jeers
on both side because labor is split on the issue. In terms of what he wants to do it's hard to say. The front bench of the labor party
articulated their thinking process is if we can't force a general election, we'll look to a second referendum and a vote of no confidence in the
government if successful could potentially precipitate a general election. If that goes through then they will have bound themselves to supporting the
cause of the second referendum.
GORANI: The vote, the meaningful vote that was delayed, will be held, in fact, the week of January the 14th. The expectation, though, is it will
not pass, this deal is not popular enough to vote.
GORANI: Then what?
PEEL: It doesn't sound like she gets any major concessions out of Brussels to get it passed and I think what worries Theresa May and being so stubborn
is already members of her cabinet are starting to talk about the consequences of failing to get the deal through.
[14:05:00] So, what they're actually talking about is having votes in parliament to see which alternative they might support or maybe something
that actually takes us towards a second referendum.
GORANI: Funny you should mention that. This brings us to the sound bite by Theresa May who refuses to admit or to say that she could favor under
any circumstances a second referendum. This is what she said in the House of Commons today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAY: Another vote which would damage to the integrity of our politics saying that our democracy does not deliver. Another vote which would
likely leave us no further forward than the last. And another vote which would further divide our country at the very moment we should be working to
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Why is May so opposed?
NOBILO: I think politically at least she realizes if that has oxygen it's taking off. Momentum built for that movement. We have former prime
ministers support of it. She can't let -- can't give them an inch basically and the points made just then are valid depending on the question
of potential referendum would be and dealing with hypotheticals. Do you have a re-run of a leave or remain or offer the public a vote on Theresa
May's deal or no deal? What's reported is perhaps it would be may's deal versus no deal option and then parliament to amend it for a remain option
and split the Brexit vote and there's issues from that, too.
GORANI: Here's a question to you because people outside of the U.K., most of them, believe if there's another referendum, remain would win. I think
remainers want another referendum feeling like the first time around participation was low with young people. You have older people that passed
away or younger people replace them. Is that really so certain to have another -- that we would have a --
PEEL: Remain vote to win.
PEEL: I don't think it's absolutely certain. The polls didn't shift a huge amount.
PEEL: But on the other hand, the Brexiteers threatening to abstain if there is a second referendum. So that throws a different complication.
PEEL: Because they're so cross. The vote might be split of no deal or a deal they hate, or that they feel that it's a travesty of democracy. But
nobody really puts their finger on the point we're talking two different sorts of democracy and they are in conflict. You have referendum democracy
and you have parliamentary democracy and then they're not reaching the same conclusion and why we're in this terrible mess.
GORANI: Will we have a quiet Christmas vacation, Bianca?
NOBILO: One of Theresa May's MPs of her own party felt that the public would be frustrated that they go on holiday for now at this crucial time
for the future of Brexit.
GORANI: Could be called back.
NOBILO: They could be. I think it's unlikely and whether it's strategic or inevitable, the prime minister seems to be running down the clock in
terms of how she is approaching this Brexit deal and trying to get it through parliament. I think we won't be hearing as much from the prime
minister and her cabinet as we have done and I don't think the plotting and second referendum debate dies down too much.
GORANI: Thanks very much to both of you for trying to explain this complicated story and how many different ways it could go from here which
is also one of the complications.
People in Hungary are furious over new laws including changes to the working hours. For days now, thousands of people marched in Budapest and
came to a head on Sunday night. Riot police clashed with protesters trying to storm the state-run television station. Erin McLaughlin reports people
are increasingly angry with the Victor Orban government.
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, LONDON BUREAU: As the crowds have grown, so too has the anger. For days now, protesters have
been gathering outside Hungary's parliament. What started as a relatively small rally last week against overtime laws has morphed into a much larger
campaign against the prime minister's government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE [14:10:00] (through translator): I have come to show a huge middle finger to the government and express I'm fed up and I think
most people are here for this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCLAUGHLIN: On Sunday afternoon, thousands of people again took to the streets with the clear message about the direction of the government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I think that discontent is growing and with this not only anger and frustration but also those voices
which would like to make change.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It is intolerable. It cannot go on anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:10:00] MCLAUGHLIN: They turned attention to Hungary's state TV channel and some view as a mouthpiece for the government. Police resorted to
teargas and pepper spray. Inside the building, opposition MPs trying to force themselves on air. Before eventually being dragged out of the
building by security. The sustained protests are a significant sign of discontent over the government. Covering a wide range of concerns, some
are angry at new overtime laws requiring employees to work up to 400 extra hours every year and some for new administrative courts which critics say
undermine judicial independence. As one observer told CNN the rallies of the united traditional political enemies on the left and right against
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm protesting against the government and protesting for independent courts. I'm protesting for human rights.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It should be changed. They have to resign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCLAUGHLIN: The prime minister's office didn't respond to specific questions. Instead referring CNN to a statement blaming violence on
opposition lawmakers and those funded by Hungarian-American billionaire George Soros a frequent target of the government. Protesters vow to
continue the campaign for change and hope that eventually Orban will listen. Erin McLaughlin, CNN, London.
GORANI: Joining me is now Zoltan Kovacs, a spokesperson for the Hungarian government. Thank you for being with us. Are you going to listen to the
demands of these protesters saying essentially that the government of Prime Minister Orban is passing laws that are strangling the independent
judiciary, shutting down independent media organizations? Are you going to take their concerns into consideration?
ZOLTAN KOVACS, SECRETARY OF STATE FOR PUBLIC DIPLOMACY AND RELATIONS, HUNGARY: That question is oriented at me. High school the Hungarian
parliament to make decisions of which we have a constitutional who has majority. As it was decided by the Hungarian people just seven months ago
and any indication of the opposition to represent the majority of Hungarians is just laughable. As a matter of fact, the couple of hundreds
or thousands of people you portrayed in the program is but a well-organized and well orchestrated political action against the government.
GORANI: It is 15,000 people from various reports across Hungary who protested and I get your point it is the parliament and the parliament are
controlled by the party of the prime minister victor Orban. And the EU are saying go against the fundamental values of the bloc. For instance, a law
last week that strips the supreme court of final ruling authority handing it over to the justice minister of the prime minister of the government of
prime minister Orban. Are these laws that you believe fit within the EU value system?
KOVACS: Well, if I may correct you. The Hungarian parliament's controlled by the people like in your country. Your decision-making body. Now, you
have to keep in mind again that this judicial and other decisions including the labor code are fully in line and fully in control of the European law,
members of the European Union. It's a charge we have seen for past eight years so many times coming from NGOs and organizations related by Mr.
Soros. It's very unfortunate. As a matter of fact, the very --
GORANI: It is not organized by Mr. Soros. This is the European court of justice saying this.
KOVACS: No -- [14:15:00]
GORANI: Yes. They're taking issue with these laws. They're saying this is not allowing an independent judiciary to flourish in Hungary. They have
said this. This is nothing to do with George Soros.
KOVACS: That's simply not true what you are suggesting. It is the vocabulary and the narrative of NGOs, marginal parties as decided by the
Hungarian people and not even part or members of the Hungarian parliament. As a matter of fact, it is a well-organized political effort. As we see
coming internationally on the Hungarian government and the very fact, we talk in your program is an indication of what is going on.
[14:15:00] GORANI: What is factually incorrect about saying Brussels could take Hungary to the European court of justice over these laws that have
been passed? This is factually correct. What is incorrect about this?
KOVACS: Well, it is factually correct that Hungary always followed European law. Take a look at past eight years. Everything beyond that, we
are following legislation as agreed by all European member states is a matter of political opinion. What we see here on your screen very
carefully selected scenes which I have to tell you is consequence of violence of the violent mobs.
GORANI: Why is it carefully selected? Images coming to us from Budapest. You think they're paid actors by George Soros?
KOVACS: No. What I mean --
GORANI: What you are saying makes no sense.
KOVACS: What I mean is that, like, from a -- international media popped up in Hungary not providing the context of what's going on in this country for
eight years. We have a robust economic growth. Basically, labor shortage we are trying to face in this country. Double digit growth in real
salaries for past three years --
GORANI: That is -- that is -- that is actually not true. We absolutely acknowledge and report the very strong economic growth of Hungary and you
have very low unemployment. And part of the reason I imagine that a law was passed to allow for so many overtime hours that the people in the
streets unhappy. Do you not acknowledge that some of the demonstrators have demands, opinions that are valid at all?
KOVACS: No. They don't have a point because what you called as compulsory new measure is not true. Anything --
GORANI: I actually didn't use that term. Yes.
KOVACS: Well, it made -- your suggestion, I mean, the -- trying to refer to the law was that it is compulsory, that everybody works over 400 hours a
year. That's not true. Everything is based on the kind of agreement that's required on behalf of employees so, again, that's fake news.
GORANI: You keep mentioning George Soros. Why is the Orban government so obsessed with George Soros?
KOVACS: We are not obsessed with George Soros. We are concerned about the political plots and measures. He indicates that he is a right for a
Democratic role in a society or parliament without Democratic mandate. Mr. Soros and the NGOs have never been elected and they don't have a mandate to
be in the decision making body. What we call for with all duh due respect they respect the Hungarian parliament and don't comment on us as --
GORANI: You actually called a law or the parliament called a law criminalizing helping immigrants the stop Soros law. It doesn't sound like
a party that is not obsessed with blaming every problem that they have or every opposition that they face on George Soros.
KOVACS: Well, it sounds like a party in the parliament trying to put into action what has been decided by the Hungarian people. And that is, that
the illegal migration should be stopped at the borders, even with a stronger mandate against NGOs helping migrants entering the European Union.
Look at your borders. We have seen scenery and content coming from that perspective. Including the organizations which are trying to help and
instigate our illegal migration, not only at the borders of Europe but the United States.
GORANI: Zoltan Kovacs, thank you so much for joining us on CNN. We appreciate having you on the program.
The U.S. President Donald Trump is intensifying his attacks on the Russia investigation as a key cooperating witness gets ready to face a judge. The
former National Security Adviser Flynn will be sentenced tomorrow for lying to the FBI. Special Counsel Mueller is recommending no jail time, though,
saying Flynn has provided substantial assistance. Just today, two of Flynn's associates were charged by other prosecutors as acting as agents of
the Turkish government accused of lobbying politicians to extradite a Turkish cleric and can be hard to keep up with the developments of the
investigation and probes and after countless court filings it's clear that President Trump himself is under scrutiny on multiple fronts. You see it
there in that graphic. From his campaign to administration to business practices. Let's bring in Boris Sanchez in Washington with the latest.
What are we hearing from the President facing more and more pressure, Boris?
[14:20:00] BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Trump spent the weekend in part tweeting inaccurate statements about the Russia
investigation and about the nature of some of their dealings, for example, he mischaracterized what happened when FBI agents served a warrant at the
different properties of his former fixer, former attorney Michael Cohen. The President suggesting that the FBI broke into his homes, almost
immediately after they served those warrants, Michael Cohen said that the agents were nothing but respectful and the President called the Russia
investigation illegal, something people in his own Justice Department, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein said is not the case saying it's a
legitimate and valid investigation.
The President is clearly on the defensive. This weekend, his attorney Rudy Giuliani trying to discredit Michael Cohen who as you know made disparaging
claims about President Trump, namely that everything that was decided during his campaign and out there his organization ran through the
President. This means that those hush money payments, for example, who allegedly had affairs with the President approved by him, something that
the President denied. In fact, this weekend Rudy Giuliani tried to claim that those were not campaign contributions. Even though Michael Cohen just
pled guilty in the southern district of New York to making illegal campaign finance violations by making those payments so there's what Rudy Giuliani
is saying as part of a public relations campaign and what's actually happening in court. As you noted, the President's former national security
adviser set to be sentenced tomorrow. We'll see if news comes from that. Previously seeing things like this, former aides of the President's plead
guilty and have legal issues and in the case of Michael Cohen flip on him, he always sees the President very active on Twitter making statements like
the ones I just noted. Hala?
GORANI: Absolutely. We saw him tweet up a storm over the weekend. Thank you very much, Boris, at the White House.
More to come this evening. Including this. I speak to one of the greatest actors of all time. Robert De Niro will be on this show. You don't want
to miss that. We'll be right back.
GORANI: There are two new reports that indicate Russia's online efforts to influence American politics went beyond spreading disinformation. Studies
conducted for the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee suggest that Russian trolls used social media to try to trick unsuspecting Americans into
staging protests and even into giving up personal information that could be used for blackmail.
[14:25:00] Probably as no surprise to hear that the Russian President Vladimir Putin is not a fan of those accusations. Obviously. But also, of
rap music. Believe it or not. Urban hip hop isn't typically enjoyed by 66-year-old men and Mr. Putin ignited a bit of a stir over the weekend
saying he wants to control Russian rap. And that the state may need to take action against rap artists. CNN's Fred Pleitgen is in Moscow.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Sex, drugs and a dose of protest. Those are the topics that landed Russian rapper Husky
in jail for several days. Known for criticizing the Russian government and Vladimir Putin through his music, his concert was shut down for alleged
extremism. Then he was charged with hooliganism trying to give a concert on a car roof. Overall, I was forced into this situation he later said. I
had to talk to the people who bought the tickets and I felt it's my duty to talk to them and they needed to hear me so I did that. Russian hip hoppers
are on a collision course with the Kremlin. Several artists banded together after husky was arrested and lobbied for him to get out of jail
early. Sparking a debate of government critical lyrics and freedom of expression.
A music producer during a meeting with Vladimir Putin blaming American culture for allegedly creeping into the minds of Russia's youth.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IGOR MATVIENKO, RUSSIAN MUSIC PRODUCER: We have to keep in mind hip hop and rap are not our inventions. This is a global trend that came from
America. This gangster rap. There were many iterations and based on 3 pillars: sex, drugs and protests against everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: It's not the first time government critical Russian musicians faced problems. Members of Pussy Riot spent a considerable amount of time
behind bars and 'to use Russian authorities of poisoning one of their musicians, a claim the kremlin denies. Vladimir Putin taking a fairly
moderate line consulting with language experts and then saying if you can't stop them steer them. If you can't stop it, you need to own it, he said
and lead in an appropriate way. But how does one do that? That depends on us. Some politicians suggest age limits for concerts or warning labels for
alleged explicit lyrics as they gear up, trying to prevent the government from intervening in their music. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.
GORANI: More to come. He's playing some of the biggest roles in Hollywood. Next, I speak to the legend Robert De Niro.
Later in the program, a look at what Israel is calling terror tunnels. Our camera underground to show you exactly what is inside.
[14:30:00] COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: The Godfather, Deer Hunter, Raging Bull, Taxi Driver, Goodfellas, incredible movies that made Robert De Niro one of the best-known people on
the planet and, of course, the legendary actor that he is and making movies and recent times we have seen him bring politics to the fore more. The
criticism of the President at the Tony awards was explicit and Mr. Trump hit back. And now we're seeing a recurring role on Saturday Night Live as
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT DE NIRO, AMERICAN ACTOR: I have something for you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a subpoena or your final reports?
DE NIRO: No. Report? No, no. It's a picture of my grandson. I've been spending so much more time with him since I don't have to investigate some
idiot for treason.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait. It sounds like you know I used to be president?
DE NIRO: Oh, I know everything. Everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Let's bring in the man himself, Robert de Niro joining me live from New York. Thanks so much for being with us. I think if two years
ago, someone had told me you'll be interviewing Robert De Niro, first of all, I would have been thrilled full stop.
But you'll be interviewing Robert De Niro who's playing a special prosecutor investigating the sitting president for possible collusion with
Russia during a presidential campaign. We live in a -- we just live in a crazy world.
DE NIRO: Yes. Yes. I mean, I never thought in my lifetime and I've seen a lot in my lifetime. I never thought I was working out with my trainer
the other day and I'm -- we've seen horrible things over the years. But this was one of the worst that I have ever seen and that I ever, as I say,
ever thought I would see. But it's real.
GORANI: Why are you so vocal about it, though, at this stage in your career? Because you've been very outspoken. Against the president.
DE NIRO: I just -- you know, I know what kind of person this guy is. He's a New Yorker who I never would want to meet. Never want to meet him and
now he's president. And the reason I wouldn't want to meet him is because of the kind of person he is. As we all know now. There's nothing new.
It's just -- it's disgraceful. But we'll get past it. It'll be one of those things that'll be like a nightmare that you remember.
I'll be with my trainer. It will be five years from now, saying, remember all that stuff how terrible it was? And at least I lived to see the time
when this will all pass like any nightmare.
GORANI: But so you've called him stuff like -- that you've called him a national disaster. You said F-Trump at the Tonys, you called him a bozo.
You said that he's an embarrassment -- yes.
DE NIRO: I meant -- I'm sorry. I'm sorry to interrupt you.
GORANI: No, no. I was just going -- go ahead.
DE NIRO: I was quoting someone -- just having a block on the name. Calling him a national disgrace.
DE NIRO: Not a national. He is also a national disaster, too. But he was -- it was a disgrace. When I said that, it's before he was elected.
GORANI: Is there -- I mean, some people have criticized --
DE NIRO: It was Colin Powell who I quoted.
GORANI: Yes. And do you think that possibly you're basically giving him what he wants by just keeping this -- by kind of creating a feud with him
where he then replies on Twitter and says you're a low IQ or whatever? You took too many blows in the head that in a way you're kind of playing his
DE NIRO: No. Because even his responses, his retorts, if you will, are inane and they're kind of stupid. He doesn't say anything that's even
witty or smart. So it doesn't -- it doesn't bother me. It's ridiculous.
GORANI: But you're playing Mueller on SNL. I watch it every week. And it's -- whenever you come out on stage, you immediately get this incredible
just round of applause. What made you -- how did that come about, playing Mueller on SNL?
DE NIRO: I think it was -- I think my wife had mentioned we were talking about what could I do? What character could I play in all of this? And I
think she said, "Well, what about Mueller?" And I called Lorne Michaels. I said, "Lorne, what about playing Mueller?" I think that's how it
happened. So they came up with stuff.
GORANI: Is this something you're having fun with?
DE NIRO: Yes. I'm having fun with it, yes. I mean, I love SNL. So it's -- that part of it is always fun to do.
GORANI: So all these ideas that come from the Trump administration that you don't like, we're seeing some of them take hold in our part of the
world. So we're seeing, for instance, with Brexit or just now I interviewed the Hungarian government spokesperson, these kind of populist
[14:35:04] Is that something you think about at all, like, what's happening outside the U.S.? This kind of ideological wave outside of the U.S. and
what do you make of something like Brexit, for instance?
DE NIRO: Well, you know, I'm -- I don't know fully what Brexit is but I have a sense of what it is and what've been told and what I've read and so
on. And people are dissatisfied with certain things. The working people, the people who are getting not benefiting from like the rich in this
country who would -- Trump with his tax breaks and so on. It all boils down to giving the rich a break.
And I think that happens. And now the working people on both sides, right and left, are concerned and angry and they have to be -- they have to be
part of the equation of making things right.
I mean, it's easier said than done but it has to be. And I think that's what it is. But I hope they have a referendum in England. That's my
feeling because maybe they'll change that and maybe that'll be better. I don't know all the things so I'm not really qualified to speak.
GORANI: It looks like it could be heading that way.
But let's talk movies. I have to say, for me, this is such a thrill because when I was a teenager, I saw "The Deer Hunter." I was raised in
Paris and there was a movie theater that showed, you know, older films on the big screen and, really, I think that's sometimes the only way you
should be able to watch a movie.
DE NIRO: I agree.
GORANI: So I saw "The Deer Hunter." I think I was 17 or 18 years old and I can say with confidence that it is one of the movies to this day that has
touched me the most. And when I cannot believe that I'm speaking to you now actually, the actor that touched me and moved me so much.
You're collaborating -- this was not a Scorsese movie, obviously, but you're collaborating with Martin Scorsese and Al Pacino is costarring with
you in a movie called "The Irishman" and that's coming out next year.
Can you talk to us about that? This will be your ninth collaboration with Martin Scorsese?
DE NIRO: Yes. We -- it started about 11 -- over 11 years ago with a book called, "I Heard You Paint Houses" which is really what the title will be.
Everyone refers to it as "The Irishman." But it really -- that's the title.
And I think that Marty wants the use that title which I like better really though. "The Irishman" was a good title.
And it took many years. We were about to do another project of the same kind of genre. Not genre. Subject. And then it was a genre about a
hitman but a more popular kind of story, not really specific. This is a much more specific -- it's very specific about the Hoffa, Jimmy Hoffa's
killing and so and so. Al Pacino plays Hoffa. Joe Pesci plays a character named Russell Bufalino who was a big part of all of this and the three of
us are the very close as friends and I don't want to give it away, I suppose, but anyway. Then you'll see. Is that OK what I said?
GORANI: Absolutely. But I'm interested, also, in kind of how Netflix and the streaming platforms are kind of like the new -- it's the new platform
for some of the best TV and movie making out there which is a very new development.
I mean, what do you -- what do you make of that development? Because TV series, I don't know if it's something you'd be interested in doing. It's
kind of become the higher art form, almost now.
DE NIRO: Yes. It's -- well, you know, they're working it out where -- I mean, like a movie like, "I Heard You Paint Houses," "The Irishman," should
be put out in a big venue, a big theater, in places, certain cities and then it can be shown later in whatever, like any movie these days, but
And I think that they're working that part of it out, at least in the beginning it opens in a grand way. Especially a movie that we've done.
And they're smart enough to know that. Netflix.
GORANI: Yes. So it will air --
DE NIRO: The details by when and how long. So I don't know yet.
GORANI: So it will be in movie theaters before it streams basically?
DE NIRO: Yes. That's my understanding. I don't see how it could be streamed.
GORANI: Would you be interested in doing a kind of a TV series now? We're seeing these huge celebrities and big-time movie actors doing television
DE NIRO: Well, many things in television are better, better quality and so on. And I'm working on something with David O. Russell. We were working
on something. But because of the whole Amazon-Weinstein Company thing that got kind of put aside, but we have another big project that we're working
on and it'll be, again, a Netflix project.
[14:40:21] And maybe it will be open in theaters, if it feels that's the way it should be. First presented. They could do that. I don't know yet.
GORANI: OK. Do you still find -- do you still experience the same joy acting that you did several decades ago?
DE NIRO: Yes, I do. Especially the -- like project that Marty and I just did. "The Irishman." And the one that I will do with David O Russell.
Those are very special projects. Hopefully they -- people like them and will see them. But they're special. There's no way around it. For us.
And they're labors of love and lots of care.
GORANI: I want to ask you one last question about kind of the changing -- the Me Too movement and how the industry's changing in that regard and one
of the things you were quoted as saying was maybe you were a bit naive in the business, you didn't realize maybe a lot of what was going on. Why do
you think that is?
DE NIRO: Well, because, you know, sometimes, I mean, if I'm doing something and there's -- there are people setting things up to get to the
point where let's say if Marty and I are doing a movie or I'm doing with a director, what goes on before to get people to meet us or read with us or
whatever, I don't know what shenanigans could possibly go.
I'm not saying with any of the films we've done with any other director, but it could have been and we see that now. But I'm not going to be aware
of that. I don't think people want to make me aware of that. Or say someone like Marty. And so we just -- that's -- so I'm naive in that
sense. I hear of things. You hear things. But not on the scale that we're hearing today. Not at all. I had no idea.
GORANI: And I know you'll probably going to tell me you can't pick but is there a -- if you had to pick the one movie you did that is your favorite,
which one would it be?
DE NIRO: Well, people always ask me that. I mean, I work on a movie --
GORANI: I'm not being very original. I know.
DE NIRO: I know. It's like -- it's like you can't say anything. It is different, of course. You can't say anything about any of your kids that
you favor one or the other. But what you can say is one kid has this. It's adorable. One has another thing that you adore and love but it's
different. One has another thing that's -- whatever.
They're all different and the movies have the same thing. You have a -- I have a thing that I worked on very hard. I'm not sure whether it was a
favorite but it was received the most favorably so it's a favorite then. I'm happy that I worked -- as long as I worked hard on it. They know I
worked hard on it and so it got some kind of recognition, if you will.
GORANI: All right. Robert De Niro, thank you so much. It has been such an absolute pleasure and thrill having you on the program.
DE NIRO: Oh, that was very nice of you. Thank you. Thank you.
GORANI: Thank you so much.
DE NIRO: Bye.
GORANI: All right. We're going to take a quick break and don't forget we'll be posting this interview online, in fact, facebook.com/halagorani
and @HalaGorani on Twitter. We will be right back.
[14:45:48] GORANI: The mayor of Brussels is thanking police after right wing demonstrations in the city turned violent. Five thousand people
protested Sunday over a migration pact signed by the United Nations.
Now, the anger escalated as the crowd tried to break into the European Commission headquarters. Atika Shubert has our story.
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): violent demonstrations erupted in the streets of Brussels on Sunday as thousands of
far right protesters and counter protesters chanted, waved flags and ran from teargas sprayed by police.
The demonstrations quickly devolved into chaos when police detained 90 demonstrators after they attempted to storm the European Commission
building. The uprising dubbed "March against Marrakech" was organized in response to Belgium support by the U.N. Global Compact on migration.
After Belgium Prime Minister, Charles Michel, expressed confidence in the compact at a U.N. conference in Marrakech.
CHARLES MICHEL, BELGIUM PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We need the European cooperation. We need international cooperation. We need to have
courage. We need to have responsibility. This moment is important because it's a step forward.
SHUBERT: The compact has drawn global criticism from these far right groups who fear an increase in European migration as a result.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Europe is dead because of politics, because of the European Union and this commission building that signed this compact
contract for the immigration. That means that the European people will be dead in our home. So no. We want our home back.
SHUBERT: And in some, it has aggravated a deep seeded hatred towards ethnic groups feelings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want all of (BLEEP) out of this country. All (BLEEP) all Islam out.
SHUBERT: As these far right groups see restricting migration as a means to preserve their way of life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not only for Marrakech. It's also for the people. We need to work until we are 67 years old. It's not normal. And they
throw the money for the immigrants who will not serve our country.
SHUBERT: Atika Shubert, CNN, Berlin.
GORANI: Israel is seeking out and disabling tunnels that dot its border with Lebanon. It says they're built by Hezbollah. CNN got exclusive
access inside one of those tunnels and the Israeli military's effort to uncover them. Ian Lee has that.
IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There's a secret in this hole. Those responsible preferred you not to know. We drop a camera
down past tens of meters of hard limestone to reveal a sophisticated tunnel complete with ventilation, lights. It's large enough for an NBA player to
stand in. Israel says it's the work of Hezbollah, the Lebanese militant group with ties to Iran.
LEE (on camera): It was important for the Israeli military to drill as close to this wall as possible. And that's because on the other side of
this wall is Lebanon. And what they wanted to show is how Hezbollah's tunnel began in Lebanon and entered Israel.
Finding this tunnel, though, wasn't so much on what they saw, but rather, on what they heard.
LEE (voice-over): Vibrations from drilling exposed the digging. This video shows when the Lebanese militants first discovered their tunnels were
no longer a secret.
LEE (on camera): In that video, we see an explosion, what can you tell me about that?
LT. COLONEL R., BATTALION COMMANDER: The explosion, we decided not to kill those people walking in the tunnels. It was a warning for the other side,
to stay out of the tunnels, and we have the tunnels booby trapped.
LEE: Four tunnels have been uncovered so far. The army expects to find more. Israel says they violate a 12-year-old ceasefire. U.N. peacekeepers
who monitor the border are investigating. Secret sophisticated technology provides a location then, they start to drill. There's little margin for
LT. COLONEL R.: If it drills half a -- half a meter to the right or half a meter to the left, that's it, you're out. You're not in the -- in the
tunnel. And you didn't achieve your goal.
[14:50:00] LEE: Kind of like finding a needle in the haystack.
LT. COLONEL R.: It's more complicated than that.
LEE: The army says that uncovering the tunnels early, has limited the threat, but they had the potential to do Israel great harm, thousands of
civilians living near the border at risk of kidnapping or worse.
A senior Hezbollah official previously told CNN, the group was surprised by Israel's operation, but neither confirmed nor denied they were digging
Meanwhile, Israel continues to dig down to build-up security.
Ian Lee, CNN, on Israel's northern border with Lebanon.
GORANI: Well, we now want to talk about an issue that CNN tried to shine a light on, an issue that is unfathomable and that is child rape and gang
rape in India. There was yet another case on Sunday.
A 3-year-old girl, 3 years old, who was lured away from her home by a man offering her candy. She's now in critical condition after he allegedly
grabbed her and raped her.
Now, it comes six years to the day since a brutal gang rape on a bus first pushed this issue onto the world stage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKHIL KUMAR, CNN NEW DELHI BUREAU CHIEF: The case has revived memories of the 2012 gang rape and killing of a paramedical student here in Delhi.
That crime cut exactly six years ago this Sunday when this latest attack is alleged to have taken place. The 2012 case shook India and turned a
spotlight of the country's problem with sexual violence and generated international coverage as people around the world put pressure on India's
leaders to act.
Thousands came out on the streets and new laws were put in place to ensure the safety of India's women and girls. But the horror stories keep coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Indeed the stories do keep coming like the 4-year-old girl who died after being raped in 2013. Or the two teenage girls who were raped
and hung from a tree in 2014. Or the 2-year-old who was raped by two boys in 2015. Or the five children raped over the course of five days in
January of this year. We went back and looked at the past six years and we counted 37 separate times where a rape case in India rose to the level of
an international news story.
Thirty-seven times CNN highlighted this horrific problem. And as you can see not much seems to have changed.
We'll be right back with more after this break on CNN.
GORANI: Little detour through Tokyo. When thinking of things to see there the state guest house may not be on your radar. It's a palace with
features that you might expect to see in England or France, not Japan. And today, we get a special tour of it in today's "Spirit of Tokyo."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In metropolitan Tokyo, a building such as this one may stand out against a city's more modern skyscrapers. But this
architecture marvel is considered one of Tokyo's national treasures. The State Guest House. Completed as the crown prince's residence in 1909. It
now welcomes visiting heads of states and diplomats.
HIDETOSHI NAKATA, HOST, SPIRIT OF TOKYO: Today, even though I'm not prime minister, I'm here and today is a very special with me. Here, it's great.
[14:55:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At first glance, the building shows a European style facade. But with the closer look, there are sprinkles of
Japanese influence in the details.
TOSHIO KUZUMA, DEPUTY DIRECTOR-GENERAL, STATE GUEST HOUSE (through translator): Back then in Europe, this architectural style was in fashion
and they wanted to follow the foreign trend. They used Palace of Versailles as a reference.
NAKATA: I feel like I'm in Versailles. At the same time, when I see like samurai armor and the sword, mixed together, and then I say, what?
We have an annex next door with the pond, koi fish and especially the fraction inside to the room was so beautiful.
KUZUMA (through translator): U.S. President Donald Trump came here in 2017. He fed the fish with Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Since opening up to the public regularly in 2016, the State Guest House says it now sees around 2,000 visitors a day.
NAKATA: That's very important. Before you couldn't get in.
That's something important for country. And for people in Japan. And people coming to Japan as well.
GORANI: Well, behind a heavy stone door sealed for centuries, Egyptian archaeologists have discovered a tomb filled with artistic wonders.
The previously unknown burial place of a royal high priest dates back 4,400 years and it is exceptionally well preserved, as you can see. The walls
are decorated with statues and colorful frescos depicting the priest and his family, along with scenes from his daily life including musical
performances, apparently. And furniture making and sailing. It sounds like a fun time they had.
The tomb also contains five burial shafts that archaeologists plan to further excavate. I love that fact you can still discover new sites in
Egypt and I'm sure in many other countries if you look hard enough.
Thanks very much for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. Stay with CNN. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.