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Mattis Quits Over Disagreements; Veteran Suicide Prevention; Record-Breaking Travel for the Holidays; Lawmakers Shaken as Mattis Quits. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 21, 2018 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:33:24] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Defense Secretary James Mattis has resigned in protest over President Trump's decisions on Syria and Afghanistan. The president says he's going to withdraw troops from Syria. And we have learned that he wants to withdraw half the U.S. troops from Afghanistan. A senior administration official tells us that James Mattis vehemently opposed both of those decisions.

Joining us now to discuss is Paul Rieckhoff, founder and CEO of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America.

Paul, thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate it.

PAUL RIECKHOFF, FOUNDER AND CEO, IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN VETERANS OF AMERICA: Good to see you, sir.

BERMAN: I have to say, I heard from active duty service members who were speaking in ways that I have not heard before in regards to the resignation of James Mattis. One told me he was devastated.

Your reaction?

RIECKHOFF: Yes, that's what I'm hearing, too. I mean this is a very concerning, fragile moment in American history, especially for our military and veterans community. Secretary Mattis is on another level. I have never seen a more popular leader among the modern military, period. I mean he's more popular than like George Washington.

A recent "Military Times" poll said that he had over 84 percent approval rating, close to 90 percent among the officers. And contrast that with about 45 percent for the president. So Mattis is another world in terms of his trust and reverence within the military. So this is really reverberating around the active duty and the veteran's community in a very, very powerful way. It's a very, very precarious time for us..

BERMAN: And in terms of the actual policy decisions that precipitated it, the removal of U.S. troops from Syria and the removal of half the U.S. forces from Afghanistan, how do you view that?

RIECKHOFF: I think there's a core issue here. Mattis said that the president wasn't listening to him. And all the talk in America about supporting our troops, most of all that means listening to them. And there's no one who speaks for all troops or all veterans, but Mattis is pretty close. I mean this is a guy who is an icon. He's kind of a grandfatherly figure. A warrior poet. He's so revered that when he does speak, he does speak for many people, from the general down to the lowest level grunt, the Marine Corps grunts. There are shrines to Mattis in combat zone.

[08:35:20] So I think it's very, very important that we understand that that's what Mattis is saying here, the president's not listening to him. And, in many ways, that means he's not listening to the military.

BERMAN: Of course, you work for an organization and one of the things you want more than anything else is to bring U.S. forces home safely in general.

RIECKHOFF: Yes, everybody wants that. I mean but right now, you know, if you look at the cumulative situation, right, our military and veterans needs stability. And Mattis has been this block on everything from the parade, to the trans ban, to Syria, to Afghanistan. And I think everybody's concerned with him out of the way to kind of protect us from the politics, that includes especially Syria and Afghanistan, we don't know what's going to happen. So I think especially when we're at war -- and people need to remember, we are -- we are at war right now and we need a steady hand controlling our military and leading us in that combat.

BERMAN: The president justified his decision on Syria in that video two nights ago I think it was at this point and he said it was justified because it would be the will of U.S. service members who have died fighting ISIS. He invoked the names of fallen U.S. service members.

Adam Kinzinger, congressman from Illinois, said he thought the video was tacky. What did you think about it?

RIECKHOFF: You know, everybody has their own opinion. It was the most disgusting politicization of our military I've ever seen. And I've been working in this space for 15 years. I think that it undoubtedly outraged Mattis. No one speaks for the dead. And to invoke the memory of folks in uniform for a political position is like nothing we've ever seen before.

And that video has been shared throughout the military, throughout the country because people saw it has so outrageous. It really was a higher level of politicization. I think that's what folks are very concerned about with Mattis gone, who is going to protect us from the politics. And that's what America needs to be asking right now.

BERMAN: All right, your organization, you work hard to protect U.S. service members and veterans every day beyond the politics. And I want to talk about an issue that doesn't get nearly enough attention. First of all, I don't think the suicide rate in the United States gets enough attention in general. But among veterans, it's even worse.

And there's a new GAO study and it's really interesting and it says that the Veterans Affairs Office -- Department has failed to spend millions of dollars that had been earmarked for veterans suicide prevent programs. How did that happen?

RIECKHOFF: Well, this is all interconnected. I mean, you know, if you look at our military, they're also facing, you know, 20 veterans a day being lost to suicide. About two months ago we were talking CNN and everywhere else talking about GI payments that weren't coming to veterans around holiday time. I mean this is all a part of one big mess. And we're not supporting the troops. We're not taking care of our veterans. And mental health is a really acute moment that we need to focus in on.

There was a colonel who took his own life, who die by suicide at a Florida VA. He was the fifth veteran to die by suicide at that facility. At that same facility, five veterans have been lost to suicide. This is a national health emergency. It is a national security priority. And it does impact everyone, not just veterans.

BERMAN: And it's happening from the four star level, the four bar level, all the way down to private.

RIECKHOFF: If the president wants to put all that fury in his Twitter account on something that needs attention, that's it. The suicide rate, the dysfunction at the VA. These are the issues where we need focus and we need real heat to get it fix.

BERMAN: And the suicide rate is, what, 1.5 the normal population.

In terms of the spending, this is interesting, because if you look at the social media outreach --

RIECKHOFF: Right.

BERMAN: And I think we can put that chart up here. Well, this thing says spent just $57,000 of the $6.2 million. But look at this. Pieces of social media content on suicide prevention fell from that high in 2016 to 47 now, even as the suicide rate among military members is going up.

Now, I'm not saying it's happening because we're reducing spending on social media. But to reduce that spending at the same time the suicide rate is going up, that just seems like malpractice.

RIECKHOFF: It's a total failure. We -- suicide is the number one issue for our members and they are very politically diverse, they are stationed around the world, and suicide consistently is the number one issue they want us to focus on. We need every resource at our disposal. This is like keeping power dry in a fight. It's like having ammunition on the side that you don't use. We need the VA to spend every dollar and increase spending and galvanize the American people to save lives.

BERMAN: Is this just a bureaucratic mess or is there a lack of a will? Is this the decision --

RIECKHOFF: It's got to be both. I mean I don't know what the bottom line is and what happened here. We've got computer breakdowns at the VA. They're not spending the money they need to on suicide. They can't pay GI bills checks on time. This is a total failure. This is a breach of the contract that the American public has with our men and women in uniform. And if the president won't fix it, the rest of the country needs to find a way to do it.

BERMAN: Right. Paul Rieckhoff, I appreciate you coming in and discussing this. Again, I think this is one of the most important discussions we should have in this country, no matter what else is going on.

RIECKHOFF: Absolutely. Thank you.

BERMAN: I appreciate it.

RIECKHOFF: Appreciate it.

BERMAN: We'll be right back.

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[08:43:44] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Today is a big day for holiday travel and travel headaches. AAA expects a record number of Americans to hit the road, rails and skies this Christmas season.

So let's get to CNN's Polo Sandoval. He's live at New York's LaGuardia Airport, where the weather could not be helping.

Polo.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's certainly not going to be helping, Alisyn. And, look, if you're among the roughly 112 million people that will be traveling on one of the busiest travel days of the year, you're definitely going to have company here because there are many people who are traveling, particularly today.

And as you mentioned, Mother Nature is just not going to help. When you look at the weather, when you look at the radar picture across the country and you see mainly the northeast, from -- all the way down to Florida being affected here, covered in either rain or a wintery mix, you can imagine that this will add up to some problems for travelers.

Let's break down some of those numbers right now so that you can have a better idea of what will be the main preferred travel means. About 102 million people preferring to travel by road. And about 6.7 million expected to head to the airport to catch a flight. You see about 3.7 million going to be traveling by other means, perhaps bus, rail or another way here.

The main advice coming from officials, which is something that we hear year after year, be patient, but also be prepared. Already we are experiencing delays even before you make it to the airport this morning because of the rain and because of the flooding mix, John, which means, again, be patient and do expect cancellations or at least delays as you head to grandmother's house. [08:45:14] BERMAN: I totally expect everyone's going to take that

advice. Everyone's going to be wicked patient today as they're stuck in traffic and they can't get on their fights.

But, Polo, we appreciate you being there. Thanks very much.

SANDOVAL: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: All right, the president wants Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to use the nuclear option to prevent a government shutdown. Will that ever happen? We'll get "The Bottom Line," next.

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CAMEROTA: All right, well, in order to prevent a government shutdown today, the president is demanding the Senate pass a spending bill that would provide $5 billion for his border wall. That is highly unlikely. So the president wants Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to change the rules and use the nuclear option.

Let's get "The Bottom Line: from CNN political director David Chalian.

A lot feels nuclear at the moment, David.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes.

[08:50:03] CAMEROTA: So tell us about the past 24 hours through your lens. What was different about what we've all just experienced?

CHALIAN: Yes, Alisyn, I really do think we have now witnessed a real moment in history, one that when the Trump administration is written into the history books, yesterday, the way in which Jim Mattis resigned his post in protest of the president's world view, of the president's positioning of America in the world being antithetical to what Jim Mattis dedicated four decades of service to this county about and where he feels clearly that the president has left the United States in a less safe and secure position and so that he could no longer serve that president.

This is not just a moment of another departure or more chaos in Washington or just more noise and on to the next headline and the next thing. This is not that kind of a moment. This -- it may not be, you know, back in the Nixon era, Howard Baker of Tennessee going down to the White House and, you know, explaining it's up. But I -- it's a lot closer to that than anything we've seen in the Trump presidency to date. I mean it really is a presidency in crisis like we haven't seen.

BERMAN: I think that's right. And I think when you're dealing with James Mattis, there is a national security aspect to it. There is a policy aspect to it. And because those are so big, there's a political aspect to it.

We already saw Republicans beginning to waiver and in some ways channel their frustration with President Trump into a rejection of a decision on Syria. And when Mattis quit, the way he did, it felt to me as if Republicans were even more embolden to split with the president and criticize the president. And any criticism and split of the president now, when the Mueller investigation may be close to wrapping up, just comes at the most perilous of times for President Trump.

CHALIAN: Yes, there's no doubt about that. And yet, John, I agree with everything you said. And yet we still see this, you know, Republican base come to rally on this wall issue, right, for -- on the House. They come in and vote on something that they passed that they know has no chance in the Senate. There's no plan to avert this shutdown. But it is still -- it speaks to still how much a level of support back home the president has among these folks -- voters. Even some of them who have lost their seats and there will be a whole new Congress.

And so, yes, you see some Republicans in the Senate, when it comes to foreign policy and national security, feeling a bit more emboldened to break away from the president. But what I think is more telling is that you hear, perhaps anonymously, the voices from inside the administration. You hear voices from Republicans on Capitol Hill who are expressing real worry and concern at this moment in a way they haven't yet in the Trump presidency.

CAMEROTA: How miffed is Mitch McConnell this morning?

CHALIAN: You know, first of all, this -- no, you -- Alisyn, in your intro, I think you called it highly unlikely that it would pass. I think that's being generous.

You know, Mitch McConnell, on this issue of the nuclear option when it comes to legislation, basically -- I know many people watching already think the Senate is broken and perhaps fairly so, but that is basically asking Mitch McConnell to break the way the Senate works in order to get this $5 billion worth of funding for a border wall. That's just not -- Mitch McConnell has said time and time again, I'm not going to break the rules of the Senate on every day legislation, like appropriations. That's not going to happen. So the president is just sort of spinning in the wind there knowing that Mitch McConnell's not going to break the rules.

And you saw Mitch McConnell was -- had put a Senate vote together that was unanimous on voice to actually resolve this.

CAMEROTA: Yes, that's my point. He thought he had a victory yesterday morning at this time. He thought he had a victory.

BERMAN: And I think -- I think he's not just spinning in the wind with McConnell, I think he's baiting Mitch McConnell. I think what you're seeing right now is a fight between Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump. The president is baiting Mitch McConnell to try to get this vote done his way.

McConnell, who is really upset with the way the president has handled the border wall issue, is publically splitting from him on the Mattis thing using language -- you know, he put out a statement yesterday. Mitch McConnell didn't have to put out a statement.

CHALIAN: That's right. BERMAN: Mitch McConnell chose to put out a statement where he said he's particularly distressed that Mattis is resigning due to sharp differences with the president. That is, as I said earlier, Mitch McConnell's say of saying, holy crap.

CHALIAN: Yes. No, John, you're right, because part of the story of the last two years, right, has been Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan's belief that, you know, I'm just not going to take the president on when he causes chaos or where there -- you know, this tweet or he's mean to that person and just going to try to push passed that and push the agenda forward.

Not yesterday. Mitch McConnell broke from his practice of how he deals with President Trump in the last years in a pretty significant fashion with that statement. I know too many people it may read as just more Washington ease, but that's not the case. You are right, that was a holy cow moment.

[08:55:02] CAMEROTA: He said holy cow.

BERMAN: Yes, he --

CAMEROTA: He cleaned it up.

BERMAN: He is way classier than I am.

CAMEROTA: He is much classier.

BERMAN: That's never been in doubt.

CAMEROTA: That's great.

David Chalian, fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

CHALIAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Thank you very much for "The Bottom Line.

CHALIAN: Take care.

BERMAN: "The Good Stuff" is next.

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CAMEROTA: OK, time now for "The Good Stuff."

A Chicago bank brightens the future for a young woman and her son. Jasmin Ford (ph) is a single mom. She works two jobs, but she still struggles to pay off her student debt. So when her bank learned about this, it decided to step in, and listen to this, John, pay all $150,000 of Jasmin's student loans.

BERMAN: What?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fifth-Third is paying off all of your student loans today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Are you serious?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am serious.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, how great is this bank? Fifth-Third Bank says Jasmin is an inspiration and this is the least they could do. Jasmin says the help changes the entire course of her life and now she can save for her son to go to college.

BERMAN: Are you serious is what she said. That was my reaction too, are you serious?

[09:00:01] CAMEROTA: I know. That is remarkable, $150,000.

BERMAN: It can change your life. Student there, there's nothing that can weigh over you like student debt.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely.

BERMAN: All right, the government shutdown is looming. The reaction to the resignation