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New Day

Government Shutdown Continues over Border Wall Funding; Sydney Australia, Celebrates the New Year; President Trump Is Unwilling To Compromise To End The Ten-Day Long Government Shutdown; President Trump Blames Democrats For The Deaths Of Those Two Migrant Children. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired December 31, 2018 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- this fight without border security funding.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are not wasting taxpayer dollars on a ransom note.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is a silly semantic argument. You keep saying wall, wall, wall. He wants all type of border security.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We wouldn't be in this situation were it not for the president who continues to change his mind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody is going to win in this kind of game. We all lose, and we kind of look silly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our president decides to use the death of two children as a political tool. I was disgusted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our agents did everything they could. This is a multifaceted problem that requires a multifaceted solution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota on John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Monday, December 31sth, happy New Year, everyone, in Sydney, Australia. That's where they have just begun ringing in 2019.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: It is beautiful.

CAMEROTA: Gosh. Sydney Harbor is beautiful on any day, but look at how dramatic. What a spectacular show they have.

HILL: Love it. We should go there next year, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Let's do that, Erica. Let's do that. Erica Hill is with me this morning. John Berman is off. We are only 16 hours away until the ball drops here in New York's Times Square, if I don't screw it up.

HILL: Someone is going to be there helping out tonight. I'm very excited to watch you there tonight.

CAMEROTA: I'm so excited. A group of journalists has been chosen to push the button that drops the ball. I'm one of them, representing CNN, of course. I'm so excited, so we'll talk about that later on in the program. But of course, a lot is happening on this morning.

HILL: We are not going quietly, 2018.

CAMEROTA: So the New Year brings no change. The federal government remains shut down now for 10 days, no end is in sight at this hour. President Trump is dug in on his demand for billions of dollars for his border wall concept. It seems to be changing by the day. Sources tell CNN that the president is unwilling to compromise. He is privately telling lawmakers he will not agree to a deal for $1.3 billion for border security. Democrats are not budging either. They take control of the House of Representatives on Thursday, and for some 800,000 federal workers who are on furlough or working without pay, they will begin this New York without a paycheck.

HILL: And in an extraordinary interview with the "Los Angeles Times," the outgoing White House chief of staff John Kelly admits the Trump administration actually abandoned long ago the idea of a physical, concrete wall on the border with Mexico. That statement apparently not sitting well with the president, who is responding on Twitter moments ago, insisting an all-concrete wall was, all caps here, "NEVER ABANDONED, as has been reported by the media. Some areas will be all concrete, but the experts at border patrol prefer a wall that is see through, thereby making it possible to see what is happening on both sides. Makes sense to me."

CAMEROTA: Can you see through concrete?

HILL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Is that where we are now?

HILL: Very 2019, see-through concrete.

CAMEROTA: OK, we have a lot to discuss. Joining us now are CNN political analysts Jackie Kucinich, Brian Karem, and Alice Stewart. Great to have all of you guys. Happy New Year. So this is what got the president's attention this morning. John Kelly giving this interview to the "L.A. Times" in which he says, "To be honest, it's not a wall. The president still says "wall," oftentimes, frankly, he'll say "barrier" or "fencing." Now he's tended towards steel slats, but we left a solid concrete wall early on in the administration."

So that's what John Kelly, the outgoing chief of staff, has just told the "L.A. Times." It is not a wall. It has this ever-changing definition. It's certainly not a concrete wall. And then you heard, Alice, the president just say he has never abandoned a wall. Just for fun, can I just play the president in his own words trying to describe what the wall concept is? Because he, too, has had -- seemed to have a hard time really settling in on what material and how high and how long this will be. Listen to this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We actually need 1,000 because we have natural barriers.

It's going to be so big. It's going to be so powerful. It's going to be as beautiful as a wall can be.

The wall, also called, so that I give them a little bit of an out, steel slats. We don't use the word wall necessarily.

It's not going to be open until we have a wall, a fence, whatever they would like to call it. So we're looking at between 500 and 550.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Alice, can you tell us what the president wants on the border?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think he can tell you what he wants along the border. The reality is, this was a signature campaign issue. This is what many people voted for him on, and the notion that Mexico was going to pay for it. The moment that we realized Mexico was not going to pay for it, the total dynamics of this changed, and his negotiating on this changed significantly as well.

[08:05:00] And look, clearly, things have changed. The big beautiful wall, they have made conversations about steel slats, about fences, about borders. And to say that this is a silly semantic argument, it's really not. And I can say that his base will support this president because border security is important, but what he really needs to do is sit down and have an honest conversation with the American people and say, hey, look, I have evolved on this issue. The situation on the ground has changed and I think we need to go more in the direction of steel slats or boots on the ground or technology or infrastructure and not this big, beautiful wall. And he will have a lot more negotiating power and also please his base.

And that's where he needs to realize that if he just communicated with the American people that the situation and details of what he campaigned on and where we are today has changed, I think he would have a lot more public support, and that would go a long way to securing the border and opening up the government at the same time.

HILL: Jackie, what's remarkable and what Alice points out is that the president can talk about his evolution, right. The president could say here is what I've learned. The easiest way to do that, too, and he sort of alludes to this in some of his tweets and his arguments or vagaries, whatever they are. But he'll refer to what Customs and Border Protection needs, and he'll refer to what you're hearing from people on the border. It's as easy, Jackie, as saying, more concretely -- no pun intended -- this is exactly what the folks on the border are telling me. Here is why I have evolved and here is why this is now the best set. But the chances, Jackie, of that happening, what are they? JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I just don't think they're

very high, because then he -- I think this is one of those issues that the president feels like he has to hold firm on because of the base, because of the -- it can be argued this is why he was elected, this is the issue that he hit hardest on when he was campaigning, and that he faces the biggest backlash on, arguably, should he look like he's bending at all. So he's really painted himself into a box here when talking about this wall.

And also, I think he, really, we have seen this several during General Kelly's rocky tenure as chief of staff. The president really doesn't like it to look like Kelly is undermining him. And on border security, on immigration, Kelly has done this in the past, and he did it on the way out. And clearly the president is chafing at that and pushing back on Twitter, as he does.

CAMEROTA: Yes, Brian?

BRIAN KAREM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: First of all, he'll dis anybody that disagrees with him, and even if they agree with him, this whole issue, again, is just a scam from the beginning to end. It was come up with on the campaign trail. It was supposed to be Mexico was going to pay for it. They didn't. It was going to be 1,900 miles long. It isn't. It was going to be 1,000 miles. It isn't. It's going to be 500. It isn't. It's going to be see-through. It's going to be eco- friendly. All of this is just a scam.

At the end of the day, Pharaoh's heart was hardened because Ann Coulter came out and shot her mouth off, and he changed his mind. He was going to compromise. He will compromise. And in the end he'll proclaim it a victory no matter what happens, because he has to have the win. He's all about the big win, the big "W."

And it really doesn't matter. Everyone is on board. Democrats and Republicans have been on board about border security. It does need to be implemented. There do need to be things upgraded along the way. But he's not going to get anywhere near what he originally campaigned on. He doesn't really know what it is he wants now, and no one can really pin him down.

As I said, I've tried to pin down the Department of Homeland Security for the last two weeks on the specifics of this wall, and they and the White House, neither one of them, can provide me specifics. They have a nice one sheet on the website that tells, about how it's going to be and where it's going to be, but they don't even come -- the big issue you have to deal with with this wall is people dig under the wall. There are drug tunnels that have been busted -- I've done stand-ups and stood in them -- that are 100 feet deep and as wide as two lanes of traffic. So what good is the wall going to do?

KUCINICH: I think it's not only digging under the wall. I think it has to do with people overstaying their visas, which is --

KAREM: That's the big point. That is exactly the point. When you're talking about illegal immigration to the United States, it's mostly people overstaying their welcome. This issue, really boils down -- it's a racist issue, and it boils down to the fact that the Republicans think that those coming in from South America and Central America, when they get here, will vote Democratic, and they're afraid of that.

CAMEROTA: I suppose, Brian. But, look, there are a lot of people --

KAREM: That's true.

CAMEROTA: But here's the deal, there are a lot of Americans who are not racist, who want comprehensive immigration reform.

KAREM: We all do.

CAMEROTA: Which is what you're talking about. The idea that the president only fashions on it when he thinks there's a caravan or we he can gin up a caravan coming is really a slice of the problem. But again --

KAREM: You're right.

[08:10:04] CAMEROTA: Alice, what I just come back to is, and yet 800,000 people won't get a paycheck for these 10 days. They will eventually, but still I couldn't -- when I lived paycheck to paycheck in my first jobs, I wouldn't could waited 10 days. I couldn't have gone one day if my paycheck didn't show up. And it's so ill defined. So I don't know how they're going to work their way out of this.

STEWART: One thing that Brian said, to cast this off as him being racist, I think, is not a responsible way to address this.

KAREM: I think it's part of it, yes.

STEWART: He is looking at many aspects of how to secure the border, and for him, the wall was something that certainly resonated with people. I am encouraged by what we heard out of Senator Lindsey Graham yesterday, that there is talk, which I've been saying all along, is that we need to compromise on providing protections for Dreamers and also those that -- temporary protected status people that are here from other countries. Those should be part of the negotiation. And that is a big component of more comprehensive immigration plan.

I'm encouraged to hear that is potentially being discussed, and the ability --

KAREM: That's always been discussed.

STEWART: I think the president will come down off the $5 billion number, and Democrats need to come up on 1.3, meet in the middle on the money, but also include some of these other areas that most Americans agree these types of protections need to be included.

KAREM: Exactly. That's the point, Alice. But the point is -- the fact is that that we had that compromise 10 days ago. And you're going to go back to that compromise or something reasonably close. And, as Alisyn point e pointed out, meanwhile people are suffering. Why? Because at the end of the day, for some people, this is a racist issue. And I'm sorry that some people don't want to face that, but that is a fact, because they don't face the fact, as Jackie pointed out, that most illegal immigrants are here because they overstayed their visas. What they want to address are the people South and Central America who vote Democratic. And that's why you're hearing this about the wall.

And the fact of the matter is, at the end of the day, you're going to go back to where you were 10 days ago. You may include DACA. And there's no disagreement. Alisyn, you pointed out, there's no disagreement. Everybody wants border security. But the idea of the wall and $5 billion isn't going to fly with a Congress when they look at the executive branch and say, look, you didn't spend what we gave you last year. How can we give you more?

CAMEROTA: That's definitely a fly in the ointment, that they feel the money hasn't being spent. So what are we even negotiating about?

KAREM: Exactly.

HILL: How are you going to use it and what's your plan for if you haven't spent that already?

CAMEROTA: So how is this going to end, Jackie?

HILL: Did you bring your magic eight ball.

(LAUGHTER)

KUCINICH: Oh, Alisyn.

HILL: She gives you the easy ones.

KUCINICH: Thanks. I think we'll have to see at the end of the day whether the president listens to someone like Stephen Miller, his more hawkish immigration advisers, or someone like a Lindsey Graham who wants to make a deal. And if you know the answer to that, my goodness, you have a crystal ball that I do not have. Or if it ends up being somewhere in the middle. But there is going to have to be some compromise here. And the devil is in the details, which I hate that phrase, but I'm going to make it a New Year's resolution right here to not use it next year.

CAMEROTA: I'll use it for you.

(LAUGHTER)

KAREM: I love you.

CAMEROTA: Brian, Jackie, Alice. Love you, too. Happy New Year, guys.

KAREM: Happy New Year.

KUCINICH: Happy New Year.

CAMEROTA: Thanks.

Moments ago, a spectacular fireworks show in Sydney Harbor as the Aussies ring in the New Year. Check this out.

(MUSIC)

CAMEROTA: They did that right on cue.

HILL: Amazing.

CAMEROTA: They're listening to us.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: This is so beautiful. Fireworks are so, I find, goose bump-inducing. I think they're so inspirational. New Year's Eve is inspirational to me.

HILL: We get to start fresh tomorrow.

CAMEROTA: I know. You get to reset. That's the beautiful thing about New Year's Eve. You get all the promise, everything you want to accomplish in the next year. You get to reset tonight at midnight. It's just thrilling.

Here in New York City, tens of thousands are expected to pack Times Square. Actually, a million. I don't know why we keep saying that. It's a million people are expected to be in Times Square.

HILL: A lot of people.

CAMEROTA: CNN's Miguel Marquez is already there, he's already getting in position. And I will be joining him later this evening. What's the situation, Miguel?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you are the metaphorical button pusher, typically, but this time you'll be pushing the actual button to bring the -- I can't get over this. This is too cool, to remember journalists' rights and everything going on with journalism and the encroachment upon journalists' rights all over the world. So you'll be part of the very elite group.

That's what the ball would be that you will bring down later. They are preparing for over a million people here - over a ton of confetti will fall, safety obviously number one. They'll have magnetometers to get in here, no alcohol, no backpacks, no coolers, no large bags, no lawn chairs, no umbrellas.

It doesn't sound like very much fun, does it? Hundreds of officers and agents from over 50 agencies, the local state and Federal level. The gates, the pens that the public goes into, those start to open up at 11:00 a.m., but once you go in, if you go out, you have to go back to the end of the line and you can't get back in.

So you better have a bladder of steel or you better work out your restroom plan because if you're going to sit there for 12 hours - that is definitely going to be an issue.

One other thing they will have this year for security in addition to police embedding in hotels around the area is drones. They'll be able to - they are going to tether them to the buildings so that if there is a technical fault, they won't come down. They will also have anti- drone technology. So if you bring your drone out here, they'll have that.

The biggest problem may be rain. It is supposed to rain later on today. But it won't be so cold, but it is going to be wet, all that confetti stuck to people at midnight. Back to you.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, ANCHOR, CNN: And the bummer is, Miguel, one of the bummers is that when it rains you're not allowed to bring umbrellas so you really will just be drenched.

MARQUEZ: Yes.

ERICA HILL, ANCHOR, CNN: You need a poncho.

MARQUEZ: Wet.

CAMEROTA: Yes, got it.

MARQUEZL Like a pound of wet mice, just --

CAMEROTA: All right, thank you for painting that ...

HILL: You're painting a beautiful picture.

CAMEROTA: ... glamorous picture, but Miguel, thank you for all of that. I am very excited because, as you just heard Miguel say, you know, journalists have been under siege this year.

Obviously, overseas, it has been a deadly year for some journalists. Here, we are under verbal assault often, and so a group of journalists representing every news network, as well as newspapers have been chosen to press the button to lower the ball and I'm one of them, and I'm just very, very excited.

HILL: Really excited. Excited to see you there, representing everyone tonight. That will be great. And a reminder, too, we have a big special and if you don't want to be in the rain in New York or if don't live in New York, you can still catch all the fun New Year's Eve with AC squared -- Anderson Cooper and Andy Cohen. It starts tonight at eight Eastern.

CAMEROTA: I'm also AC, so what is it when it is times three?

HILL: It's AC --

CAMEROTA: Triple?

HILL: Cubed. Yes, cubed.

CAMEROTA: Done. President Trump blames Democrats for the deaths of those two migrant children, and then we have this disturbing new video that shows other migrant kids being pushed and shoved at an Arizona shelter, so we get reaction from the Democrat and Congress to all of it and what they plan to do next.

(COMMERCIAL)

[08:20:00]

CAMEROTA: Sources tell CNN that President Trump is unwilling to compromise to end the ten-day long government shutdown. The President is privately telling lawmakers he will not sign a bill without billions more for his wall.

Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Adriano Espaillat of New York. Congressman, thank you so much for being here with us on a holiday. As a member of Congress, as you sit here this morning, do you understand what the President's wall looks like, how long it is, what it's made of, what he's asking for?

ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, U.S. CONGRESSMAN, NEW YORK, DEMOCRAT: It's been shifting back and forth throughout the year. I mean, he has had different views on it. And in fact, we've had bipartisan legislation that has been put forward that takes care of the immigration debate, as well as border security and he has consistently shot them down.

So Will Hurd-Pete Aguilar bill, the piece of legislation that came from the Senate, bipartisan in scope took care of DACA, took care of even DAPA, the parents of those kids, and border security and consistently, he has shut it down.

CAMEROTA: Because his base wants a wall. I mean, we know this, this is what Rush Limbaugh has said, this is what Ann Coulter has said. His base wants a wall. So okay, let's start there. But what is this? Is it a thousand miles? Is it 500 miles? It is concrete? Is it steel slats? Is it technology? Is it a virtual wall?

I mean, how does - as a Democrat, how do you negotiate with this moving target?

ESPAILLAT: I'll tell you what. I think that one of the things that could be done is to really modernize ports of entry. The ports of entry are very antiquated. They are all - we should have state of the art ports of entry. That's where all the human trafficking comes through. That's where drugs come - illegal arms come through there.

So why not start with that? I mean, I think that is sensible.

CAMEROTA: Well, that is sensible, but the President wants a wall.

ESPAILLAT: He wants a wall. A wall is difficult. Most experts feel that it doesn't work. People go over it, under it. No one will be able to stop a hungry mom or dad, or someone that is fleeing violence from coming to the United States. It's a big issue.

CAMEROTA: Okay, well, the President has dug in on a wall, and so we're in day 10 of the government shutdown. You tweeted that you are requesting to have your paycheck withheld in solidarity with the other - all the Federal workers, government workers, including 14,000 New Yorkers, as you say, who are going without a paycheck. Are you calling upon all of Congress to do that?

ESPAILLAT: I'm doing it for myself. I think I should not be held to a different standard than any other American. I'm getting calls and e-mails from constituents that are being furloughed, the constituents that are - 14,000 New Yorkers are already being hurt by this. Eight hundred thousand people and it will balloon and it will put, eventually us in danger. So why should we be held to a different standard?

CAMEROTA: And if all of Congress went without their paycheck, maybe the impasse would be broken faster.

ESPAILLAT: Perhaps, perhaps.

CAMEROTA: So are you going to do that?

ESPAILLAT: Yes, that is correct.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about what's happening with children at the border. Obviously, there have been these two tragic deaths of young children who were in Border Patrol custody and then there's this video that I think that we can show you.

This shows - I mean, even children who are not sick are being mistreated. You know, this was one facility in Maricopa County, Arizona. And it's just horrible to watch. I mean, the adults are just pushing the kids around. We don't know if this child speaks English. We don't know if this child did something wrong or if the adult is just angry. And so whose responsibility is this?

ESPAILLAT: Well, we want to be - the Congressional Hispanic Caucus will be asking for an investigation on the way that 15,000 children there are separated from their parents currently are being treated.

I went down to the border and I saw the room where Jakelin Caal was treated. Inhumane. A flat, wooden table, a cabinet with just bandages and gauze. No --

CAMEROTA: Meaning that's the medical treatment that she got?

ESPAILLAT: That's where she was treated. That's where she was treated at the holding facility before she was taken to the hospital.

[08:25:06]

ESPAILLAT: Women primarily, disproportionately women with small children on the floor, packed like sardines, over 100 of them. Horrible. We're much better than that as a country.

CAMEROTA: The President blames Democrats for the deaths. He says that it's Democratic policies.

ESPAILLAT: Well, the fact of the matter is that these children were in the custody of government and the Republican administration controls government right now. They own this shutdown. They own this problem. The Republicans are in the majority in the House of Representatives until the third and they run the Senate and they run the White House, so, they're in control. They should fix it.

CAMEROTA: Congressman Espaillat, best of luck to you ...

ESPAILLAT: Thank you so much.

CAMEROTA: ... in the new year, thanks --

ESPAILLAT: Happy New Year.

CAMEROTA: And to you, too. Thanks for being with us -- Erica?

HILL: The New Year means a greater focus on the next Presidential race. So just who is in line to challenge Donald Trump? We'll take a look at 2020, next.

(COMMERCIAL)

CAMEROTA: Okay. We do have some breaking political news.