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New Day

Trump Presidency to Change with New, Divided Congress; Source: Trump Said He'd 'Look Foolish' if He Accepts Dems' Offer. Aired 6- 6:30a ET

Aired January 03, 2019 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump is going to have for the first time somebody that says no to him.

[05:59:30] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a game changer having the subpoena power and the ability to investigate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a good sign for voters. It will get more women involved in the conversation.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Could be a long time, or it could be quickly. This is national security we're talking about.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), INCOMING SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: How many times can we say there's nothing for the wall?

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: The Senate will not waste its time considering a Democratic bill which cannot pass this chamber and which the president will not sign.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY, with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is NEW DAY. It is Thursday, January 3, 6 a.m. here in New York. It's not just NEW DAY. It's a new day. It's a new year. It's a new Congress. It's a new era of divided government. I've got a lot of new.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: That's a lot of new.

CAMEROTA: There's a lot of new this morning.

In just a few hours, the 116th Congress will gavel in, and Democrats will take control of the House of Representatives, effectively ending one-party rule.

Nancy Pelosi expected to make history again, reclaiming her role as House speaker, the first person to do so in more than 50 years. The new Congress also makes history with a record number of women serving in office, and it will be the most racially and ethnically diverse in American history.

BERMAN: This is just the fourth time in 60 years that control of the House has shifted. So that, in and of itself, is a big deal.

The new Congress begins with new challenges. Namely, it's day 13 of the government shutdown with no end in sight. We're learning new details about the meeting in the White House Situation Room between the president and congressional leaders. It did not go well.

Sources tell CNN the president said he would look foolish if he accepted the Democrat's proposal to end the shutdown. And in a new interview, incoming speaker, Nancy Pelosi, says Democrats will give nothing -- that's her word -- nothing for the president's border wall, which, of course, is the one he promised that Mexico would pay for in the first place.

Meanwhile, some 800,000 federal workers, they're not getting paid.

We begin our morning where history will be made in just a few hours. CNN's Lauren Fox live on Capitol Hill. Laura, this Congress looks different than any before it.

LAUREN FOX, CNN POLITICS CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. It is a new era on Capitol Hill this morning, as Democrats prepare to take control of the House of Representatives for the first time in nearly a decade.

And there's going to be a lot of pomp and circumstance on the House floor today. First that vote for speaker. We expect that Nancy Pelosi will retake the gavel, and as you mentioned, a historical time as she regains it, first time in nearly 50 years.

Now, the other thing to remember today is that after that, she will swear in the 116th Congress, the most racially diverse and with a historic number of women. Then Democrats are going to try to demonstrate that they can govern. They will vote to end the government shutdown. They will vote for a bill that includes six Senate-passed appropriations bills, as well as a continuing resolution that would keep the Department of Homeland Security funded through February.

Now, Majority Leader Mitch McConnell over in the Senate, where Republicans still have control, will not take that bill up, because it does not have the border security money that the president wants. And the president's not going to sign it. He says we're not going to waste our time in the Senate on bills that the president won't sign. That's just what we can see today.

Behind the scenes, Democrats have been preparing for months to do vigorous oversight into the Trump administration, and that's from every committee, from the House Ways and Means Committee to the House Judiciary Committee to House Oversight. Everyone is going to have a role to play.

It is a huge day up here on Capitol Hill. And it's a big day for President Trump as he prepares to hear from Democrats he hasn't had to listen to for quite some time.

CAMEROTA: OK, Lauren. Great to have you there for us. Thank you very much.

Joining us now to talk about all this. We have A.B. Stoddard, associate editor and columnist at RealClearPolitics; Jackie Kucinich, Washington bureau chief of "The Daily Beast"; and Seung Min Kim, White House reporter for "The Washington Post." Great to have all of you here.

So it is an historic day. Just to put up in a graphic, exactly of the diversity changes for this new Congress. Forty new women, 20 new veterans, ten new Hispanic or Latino members, nine new black members, three new LGBTQ members.

A.B., 102 women will now serve in the House. If it really reflected the United States, it would be twice that many. Not to be a wet blanket this morning, OK, but baby steps. And it's the most women ever. So what changes?

A.B. STODDARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, REALCLEARPOLITICS: Well, that's an interesting question. It's pretty remarkable that Nancy Pelosi is the first ever speaker of the House, woman, and she is coming back to that role after eight years with 89 Democratic women in her caucus.

And what it will lead to in the Republican Senate and the Republican president, in terms of legislation, we don't know. But it will certainly elevate the voice of women in these debates. You will see more of them on the news, taking part in a national conversation.

And as you mentioned, all the diversity, even within the Democratic Caucus, two Muslim women, two Native American women, it is very fortunate for the Republican conference in the House that they're down to only 13 women. They lost some members who were defeated and who also departed, as well, to run for other office or to retire.

And it's very interesting. If you look at the numbers of sort of the proportion of white men in the Republican conference shot up in this election as it went rapidly down in the Democratic Caucus. And that's going to be a conversation as we head into 2020, even if it means that -- even if it doesn't mean, excuse me, that there's different kinds of bills coming out of the Congress and signed into law.

BERMAN: You know, it is interesting: 102 is not 218, which is what it would be if it really reflected.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BERMAN: But in terms of the changes, when Nancy Pelosi was elected to Congress for the first time and she took -- first took her seat in 1987. There were 23 women in the House of Representatives in 1987. Now there are 102. So you can see changes there.

To A.B.'s point, though, in 1987, there were 11 Republican women. In 2019 there are 13 Republican women. Astounding growth of two. Two Republican women for the House of Representatives. Really interesting to see that, Jackie.

But again, you know, it is history. It is history here when Congress, when the House, which is the people's house, gets more diverse before our very eyes.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Not only the House. Let's not forget in the Senate, Marsha Blackburn is the first woman elected from Tennessee to the Senate, and Arizona has two female senators coming in, and that is also a first. I mean, there wasn't one to begin with.

So there are -- there are these -- these bright spots for diversity in both chambers. But you're absolutely right. It is what A.B. said, in terms of Republicans.

I think what people are really going to be watching, this is a really exciting day. I love the first day of Congress. There's so much promise and hope. And everyone is there with their families and kids, and it's really, as Lauren detailed, it's an exciting day.

But there is this pall coming over this Congress at the get-go, because the government shut down, and with it, this enormous responsibility of opening the government. And how are they going to do that? That is still an open question.

I can't remember a Congress where there was this looming fight right at the beginning. And it certainly will feel that way today.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. I mean, you're so right. That juxtaposition of the hope and then the spoiling for the fight, the dukes are already up, Seung Min. I mean, so you know, look, it's interesting. The numbers are interesting. Obviously, it's interesting to look at the diversity via the numbers. But what does this mean? Women, the hype, OK, on women, is that we're better negotiators and compromisers.

BERMAN: Is that it? Is that it?

CAMEROTA: I mean, right? That's what the research suggests.

BERMAN: You convinced me. See what I did there?

CAMEROTA: Very well. This is a man who has a good marriage. You can tell.

In any event, so what does that mean? Does that mean the Democrats will dig in on the things that they have been stewing about for two years or that they'll reach across the aisle and compromise?

SEUNG MIN KIM, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, your point about women being better negotiators is interesting, because it just reminded me of when we were in a similar government shutdown more than five years ago over the funding of Obamacare.

It was actually a group of Senate women from Republican -- from both Republican Party and the Democratic Party who got frustrated and who started talking and helped kind of, at least, break the logjams so at least the two parties were to talk again about reopening the government.

But that sense of hope, that sense of optimism clearly is not here as we face this government shutdown. And both sides, both the president and both Democratic leaders, Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi, show no signs of budging from their respective positions.

But Democrats really do come in to their new House majority with this emboldened sense of power. They've been wanting to exercise oversight of the administration and exercise their investigative powers.

And so you're going to see that aggressive posture going forward. And I think just the diversity of the freshman class, I think, is also interesting, even just with the ideological perspective within the Democratic Caucus, because we talk a lot about the rising emboldened left, the progressive wing of the party.

I mean, we're talking about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who's going to be the youngest member of Congress, and the influence that she's already had on our party.

But remember, the House Democrats won their majority by winning in a lot of conservative and swing territory, so you're going to have a lot of moderates, House Democrats who don't always agree with the strategy and perhaps also the policy positions of that progressive wing. And those diverse views and how those clash and how those mesh will be very fascinating storylines to watch in the coming two years.

BERMAN: You know, it's interesting. Seung Min used the "O"-word there, which is oversight. Yes, it's the first day of the new Congress. It still has that new Congress smell.

But it's the first day, you know, in the rest of the life, the political life of President Donald Trump, who now has, for the first time, Democratic oversight, a serious check on his administration, a serious check on his presidency, A.B., and that has huge ramifications.

STODDARD: Yes, I think that the Democrats so far have been smart about the fact that they are going to choose their battles wisely and that they're going to put impeachment immediately off of the table of discussion until there is a Mueller report, and they're going to do the oversight of this administration, if you look just at this sort of incredible list of ethical misdeeds and misconduct and overstepping and rule bending of the cabinet officials alone, before you look at President Trump or his family, and possible emoluments violations or anything like that. It's been breathtaking.

[06:10:35] And the Republicans in Congress for two years abdicated their constitutional duty to hold the other branch of government in check and oversee the executive. It's been pretty amazing. And so that's going to be a huge surprise for the administration, for the entire executive branch. They're going to be lawyered up, and they're going to be tongue-tied.

It's going to be, though, also, a rhetorical battle. President Trump has already labeled this presidential harassment. And it's going to be up to the Democrats to convince the voters and those swing voters, who went for Trump by 12 points in 2016, and for the Democrats by 12 points in 2018, a 24-point swing, to make sure that they are not overstepping and overdoing and that they are really doing the people's business in terms of over -- of unturned -- of uncovering a wrongdoing or policy mistakes.

There's lot in that realm that they're going to be looking at that -- that really, you know, enlighten us and not look like presidential harassment. So that's going to be a political balancing act. But it certainly is required. There's so much that needs to be investigated that was simply blockaded by the House Republicans for two years.

CAMEROTA: Jackie, one of their first orders of business is that they hope to pass a measure, or present, I guess, a measure that all presidents would have to cough up ten years of tax returns. Too late for Donald Trump, since he's already in office, though they will get to that, as well, but their first order is that they don't want to be in this predicament again, it sounds like.

KUCINICH: You know, I think a lot of -- there's going to be a lot of legislation that the House passes that is going to end up being largely symbolic, because it's not going to go anywhere in the Senate. And they're going to have to balance that.

As Seung Min mentioned, a lot of the members that are coming from more Republican-leaning districts, they're going to have to balance the symbolic votes with actual legislative pushes. I'm not saying it's not important. I'm just saying in terms of policy, there's going to be a push to not focus on the president, to focus on what they promised in terms of economic policy, taxes, things like that.

And so they really -- there's going to be a lot of pressure from that blue-dog, conservative Democratic wing that Pelosi is going to have to keep in check with the very active progressive side of the caucus.

And to A.B.'s point, I think we're going to see a lot of old faces, too, from seasons one and two of the Trump administration being marched in front of those committees, because they want to talk to not only current cabinet secretaries but also the ones that have already left.

BERMAN: In reality show terms, I believe this is the reunion episode.

KUCINICH: Yes, it would be the reunion episode.

BERMAN: The reunion episode happening before congressional committees doing oversight hearings. That has an added twist. The person running all of this, as Jackie was saying, is Nancy Pelosi. She will be, for the second time, the speaker of the House.

What kind of speaker will she be? Well, we had Alexandria Pelosi, her daughter, on yesterday.

CAMEROTA: That got a lot of attention, by the way.

BERMAN: It did. Under really insightful questioning. CAMEROTA: Yes.

BERMAN: This is -- this is what Alexandria said about her mother.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXANDRIA PELOSI, NANCY PELOSI'S DAUGHTER/DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: She will cut your head off, and you won't even know you're bleeding. That's all you need to know about her. No one ever won betting against Nancy Pelosi.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: What is funny about your insightful questioning is that she didn't actually want to answer any questions about her mother, but when you pressed her, she gave us that gem of what to look forward to.

BERMAN: As I said, the probing question there.

You know, Seung Min, Nancy Pelosi, she has to work it out for her. She has to juggle both wings of the party there. But by all accounts, Republican and Democrat that you will read in the papers this morning, she's an adept legislator; she's an adept caucus leader.

KIM: Exactly. I mean, and the years that I've covered Capitol Hill, I mean, she has been widely regarded as the congressional leader who can best count votes. And she -- she has talked a lot about her political upbringing with her father, the former mayor of Baltimore, and she just learned how to count and know where the votes are.

And that's why, when remember when she didn't quite have the votes for speaker, it seems like several months ago, but it was only a few weeks ago, that we looked at the numbers. They weren't there, but we knew that Nancy Pelosi would somehow get there, because she knows what her members want and needs for their own political fortunes. And she -- we kind of had the confidence that she would be able to lock up the votes.

[06:15:00] But she is an adept legislator. Look, she's been in Congress for decades. She's been at the top of the Democratic ranks, much to the chagrin of some in her caucus, for -- for a very long time.

And I think the relationship between the president and the incoming speaker will be a fascinating one to watch. Clearly, the president has had -- not had congressional adversaries, at least when it comes to the leadership, because the Congress has been controlled by Republicans for the last two years.

But Pelosi, while backed up by this, again, emboldened left wing of the caucus, it will be -- it will be a match to watch. Definitely they are -- they will be adversaries. But also, Pelosi does have a dealmaker in here, and we'll have to see in the next two years where the two sides can come together if they can.

BERMAN: It will be a Congress to watch, but it will be a day to watch, also. I want to emphasize that.

Stay with CNN all day long. You get to see the new House gavel in, which is always an historic moment. Jackie was talking about how cool that is to see every two years. We, of course, will cover it all for you live. And it's just the beginning of this battle between Democrats and the president. President Trump and the Democrats facing off over this budget impasse so far not budging one bit.

We'll give you all the latest developments in this battle over the government shutdown. That's next.

CAMEROTA: Budget budging, I like that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:20:05] BERMAN: All right. We have new developments in this government shutdown battle that has now entered its 13th day. That bipartisan group of lawmakers met with the president yesterday. And a source tells CNN that the president told them that he would look foolish if he accepted the democrats' offer to reopen the government. The expected incoming speaker, Nancy Pelosi, says the Democrats will not give a dollar for the president's border wall. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Are you willing to come up and give him some of this money for the wall, because apparently, that's the sticking point?

N. PELOSI: No, nothing for the wall. We're talking about border security.

HILL: Nothing for the wall, but that means it's a nonstarter.

N. PELOSI: Well, we can go through this all -- back and forth. No. How many times can we say, no, nothing for the wall?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Back with us, A.B. Stoddard, Jackie Kucinich, Seung Min Kim.

Seung Min, nothing for the wall. Does that mean --

CAMEROTA: Nothing?

BERMAN: -- nothing for border fences, nothing for, you know, border scansions, border anything?

CAMEROTA: Slats?

BERMAN: Slats? Or are we just talking at this point nothing for the concrete border wall?

KIM: They're focused on the concrete wall. Because Democrats have said over and over that they want border security, but they don't want it in this, quote, medieval wall that the president has been calling for.

So for Democrats, border security means shoring up the fencing that's already there on the southern border, employing new technology to do a more 21st Century security method on the border. And that's primarily what the $1.3 billion that Pelosi and Schumer have pitched covers.

But for Trump, a wall has been a wall, even though, as some of his aides haven't backed up that definition of a wall lately. And a lot of the -- a lot of his base, a lot of the conservatives in Congress also think that a wall is the way to go.

I mean, I was talking with Congressman Steve King over the break about the shifting explanations that the administration has had for this -- for the wall for border security. And he said, look, walls are concrete. You can't cut through a wall. Walls don't have prosecutorial discretion. We need that wall there.

So you do see how hard it is for the two sides to come to a compromise. And I do think Democrats would be willing to come up a little bit, but on border security and not the wall.

CAMEROTA: Look, part of the problem, A.B., is that the president hasn't been able to define exactly what he wants. Show us a map. Show us a map where there's a lapse in the border where people are pouring through, if that exists.

Is it 50 miles? Is it 1,000 miles? Is it 700 miles? It's all over the map, no pun intended. And he has changed from a 32-foot wall to a fence to slats. So I don't even know what they think they're negotiating. Is this a semantics argument? If he stopped calling it a wall and started calling it fencing, would Nancy Pelosi give him some more money?

STODDARD: I don't know. I mean, I can't predict what the Democrats will do, because we don't know what the president -- the Republicans don't know what the president will sign and what he'll give.

I do think the Democrats should come to the table on something and get something out of this. I think that to give him something that he will surely brand as a win, no matter what it is, he'll call it a wall and he'll call it a win.

But as we know he said, he has said it's not only steel slats. He's gone from 2,000 miles to 550. He's, you know, gone all over the map on the numbers. He's gone back to it being a concrete wall.

He has assured us yesterday Mexico has already paid for it and it already exists. But he gives himself the constant wiggle room.

I think the Democrats are waiting, you know, to hear what he's coming up with. And I do think that they should get something out of this, whether it's legalization for the DREAMers or work permits or something. I think that, in the end, what he gets is 2.3 billion or whatever he calls a wall, and they call border security. I think they should do some kind of compromise and get something out of this and show the American people they were willing to work with him instead of, you know, keep the government open for months.

But surely, they know at this point the public blames President Trump for the shutdown. He -- you can tell from this televised meeting yesterday with his acting cabinet that he does not at all see any political pain from a shutdown. He thinks that his 38 percent of the country is with him, and that he's fine on that, that it's a fight worth having to shore up his base. And he does not yet understand that Senate Republicans soon will not be able to continue to say "no" to all the bills that the House Democrats keep sending over their way.

BERMAN: Right.

STODDARD: So I think he'll feel it in a few days, but he doesn't feel it now.

BERMAN: I have to say, also at play, we saw one of the reasons there's no deal yet, because Democrats don't know what they're negotiating with. Because the administration has no consistent thread.

The president undercut Vice President Mike Pence multiple times yesterday, rejecting the $2.5 billion that Pence had been up on the Hill floating. So what is Pence supposed to think. And that's after Pence had gone and said that the president would sign the $1.3 billion continuing resolution.

[06:25:03] CAMEROTA: And after the president had said, "I probably will. I think I might. Try me."

BERMAN: So they don't know what they're negotiating.

But the president's also making things up. A.B. brought up the fact the president claims that Mexico is already paying for the wall. Well, they're not. Mexico is not paying for the wall.

CAMEROTA: The wall's already being built.

BERMAN: It's not, right. So those things are not true, those are lies. He knows that they're not true. So it's hard to negotiate with a moving target and sometimes disappearing target, Jackie.

KUCINICH: Well, it also -- A.B. said this a couple times, but it's worth being a little Captain Obvious about this, and that this is about politics. This is -- this is bigger than the wall in a lot of ways to this president.

Listen to Lindsey Graham, who a couple days ago said that the president might be open to a deal, now is saying this is -- he should just forget about his presidency if he doesn't hold firm on this.

If the -- if that's who's talking to the president, if that's what the president is hearing from his right flank, how can he compromise? If he thinks that his presidency is riding on making sure this gets done. So it really puts Republicans and Democrats in a tough spot, because if he has really, you know, put yourself in a corner here. And it's unclear how he can get out without looking foolish.

I mean, remember, even way back when he was talking to the president of Mexico, in one of those first -- in one of those first phone calls, he said, "You've got to give me something" -- I'm paraphrasing here. It's always just being able so he can say he has a win. That's what matters and that's going to complicate this till the very end when it ends.

CAMEROTA: Also, Seung Min, there are so many different people who feel that walls work. The acting director of ICE was on FOX last night saying that, in his 33 years of experience, walls do slow people down. Walls do work.

Yes, can people tunnel under them at some point? Sure. But it takes a while to dig that tunnel. And so he was making the case, and of course, the president is listening to that.

But getting to our next point, which is he's the acting director of ICE. There's a lot of acting going on here. These are -- this is Trump's acting cabinet. Look at what great actors these are. I mean, this is --

BERMAN: And the Oscar goes to --

CAMEROTA: Acting!

This is a problem. I mean, these are the people who were not his first choice. The president said that he only finds the best people. Well, the best people have left. And these are people who have not either been confirmed or were just waiting in the wings. And I've just never have seen anything like this amount of acting.

MIN: Exactly. I mean, the cabinet has 15 or so people, and there are seven people on the screen. So about half of the most important positions in government are people who are not Senate confirmed, who are not supposed to be there in a temporary capacity, and who are there, because their predecessors have left the administration, oftentimes in very dramatic ways.

I'm thinking Defense Secretary James Mattis, whose last day was earlier this week, resigning over the really tense confrontations over the president's decision to withdraw troops from Syria.

And all those vacancies do create a problem for Senate Republicans, as well, because they are having to -- instead of pushing a proactive agenda alongside the president and battling the Democrats and helping the president battling the House Democrats, they have to spend a lot of their energy confirming these cabinet nominees.

The first on the -- first on the batch for the new year seems to be the attorney general nominee, William Barr. The Judiciary Committee will hold hearings for him on January 15 and 16. Those confirmation hearings will be very important to watch, not only because of the importance of the position of attorney general in the U.S. government, but also Democrats; and perhaps some Republicans will also have a lot of questions about the -- about Mr. Barr's views on the Mueller probe.

He has written a memo kind of casting a skepticism on that special counsel's investigation, and that issue has been so central to the Justice Department; and the president's conflicts with the Justice Department over the last two years. So we can expect those confirmation hearings to be very heated.

BERMAN: You know, one of the many interesting things Seung Min said right there, is that James Mattis, General Mattis resigned, which in fact, is what he did.

General Mattis resigned, despite the fact that yesterday the president said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: How has he done for me? How has he done in Afghanistan? Not too good. Not too good. I'm not happy with what he's done in Afghanistan, and I shouldn't be happy.

But he was very happy and thankful when I got him $700 billion and then, the following ear, $716 billion. So I mean, I wish him well. I hope he does well. But as you know, President Obama fired him, and essentially, so did I. I want results.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Essentially, he did not. Essentially, Defense Secretary James Mattis quit, A.B., and the president is trying to rewrite history there.

STODDARD: Well, I was thinking when Seung Min was talking, one of the most -- the biggest concern to Senate Republicans right now is the departure of Mattis, the Syria policy and who the next secretary of defense is.