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No Compromise Still on Budget; National Emergency to be Considered by Trump; Impact of Shutdown on Federal Employees; Coup Attempt in Gabon; U.S. and China Negotiate; Brexit Battle Continues; Vigil Held for Teenage Girls Who Died in Poland; Likely a Tragic Case of Mistaken Identity; Surprises and Snubs at the Golden Globes. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired January 07, 2019 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[03:00:00] ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN HOST: No end in sight into week three of the U.S. government shutdown and President Trump says he's ready to fight even longer to get his border wall. But in China, President Trump's team is trying to find a compromise.

A tough round of negotiation is underway in Beijing as the U.S. and China try to make a trade deal. And Hollywood stars gather for the first major awards of the season. The best and worst moments from this year's Golden Globes.

Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the United States, and of course, all around the world. I am Rosemary Church live from Atlanta and this is "CNN Newsroom."

With talks to end a U.S. budget impasse are at a stalemate with the partial government shutdown now in its third week. President Donald Trump is not backing down on his demand for more than $5 billion to build a wall on the southern border, and is threatening to bypass Congress to get the money if needed.

Boris Sanchez has our update from Washington.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: As has been the case for several days during meetings between top administration officials and lawmakers to reopen the federal government and potentially fund some sort of border barrier between the United States and Mexico that President Trump has been promising, we are hearing two different sides about what happened during these negotiations.

On one hand, you have President Trump tweeting out that this meeting was productive. On the other hand, we are hearing multiple accounts from people behind those closed doors that things did not go all that well. One source telling CNN that Republicans presented the Democrats the official justification for spending $5.7 billion on the president's long-promised border wall.

According to one Democratic source, they felt that that presentation was incomplete. Democrats on their end, according to sources, have continuously suggested that first the federal government should be re- opened before any negotiations over an actual border wall could be had.

The president meantime has continued to adjusting a drastic option. He has said that he is seriously considering declaring a national emergency to get the funds necessarily to build his border wall. I asked the president about that on Sunday as he returned from a retreat at Camp David. Listen to his justification.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are looking at a national emergency because we have a national emergency. Just read the papers. We have a crisis at the boarder of drugs, of human beings being trafficked all over the world. They are coming through, and we have an absolute crisis, and of criminals and bang members coming through. It is national security. It's a national emergency.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: I followed up in asking President Trump if he had a specific deadline or something specific that he would have to see during these talks to then trigger his announcement of a national emergency. His declaration, he didn't answer. He said we'd have to wait and see. We'll tell you soon.

The president also made a statement that made waves suggesting that he had given up on the idea of a concrete barrier between the United States and Mexico, saying that now it will be steel, a steel barrier between the two nations suggesting that Democrats don't like concrete.

Boris Sanchez, CNN, at the White House.

CHURCH: And as the shutdown drags on, many government employees are facing their own financial challenges. As Polo Sandoval explains, there could soon be delays in government services.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's week three of a shutdown showdown between the president and lawmakers with Americans caught in the middle -- 800,000 federal employees considered essential continue to either be furloughed or working without pay. People like TSA Officer Brian Turner.

BRIAN TURNER, TSA EMPLOYEE: I live about half hour from work and it's going to come to a point where you say do I put gas in my car or do I feed my family.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): Already, hundreds of TSA employees have missed work at major airports across the country. It's fueling concerns of possible security risks and travel disruptions. The TSA insists security for travelers will not be compromised and that screening wait times remain well within TSA standards.

Air traffic controllers may soon be forced to support themselves through other financial means. In Washington State, Alex Navarro says he's able to stay financially afloat for now.

LEX NAVARRO, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: Safety is still at an all-time high, efficiency still at an all-time high. It's just trying to fight back the doubt and the worry of not getting that pay check.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): The partial shutdown may lead to other hassles. This year's tax refunds could be delayed as IRS workers are temporarily off the job. Farmers may have to wait for loans and for a major agricultural report due out this month from the USDA, it's supposed to help plan this year's harvests.

[03:04:59] MOREY HILL, FARMER: The January report has a lot to do with 2018's production and acres and a lot of farmers and traders base a lot of what they are going to do in the coming year on what that report tells us.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): Also at a stand still, some environmental, drug and food inspections. At KC Bier Company in Kansas City, the new brews are blocked until they can get approval from the federal inspectors.

ANDREW ZENDER, SENIOR MARKETING MANAGER, KC BIER COMPANY: We are just in a holding pattern, just have to keep brewing the beer that we're already doing and getting that out there while we wait for approval on the new products.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): Helpless and hopeless, Americans have to wait for an answer from Washington on when this partial shutdown will end. The president, who seems to be in a deadlock with Democrats, says he can relate to affected workers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And we'll adjustment. People understand exactly what's going on. But many of those people that won't be receiving a paycheck, many of those people agree 100 percent with what I am doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL (voice-over): Polo Sandoval, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: For more on what could happen next, Richard Johnson joins us now. He's a lecturer in U.S. politics and international relations at Lancaster University in England. Thank you so much for being with us.

RICHARD JOHNSON, LECTURER, LANCASTER UNIVERSITY: Thank you.

CHURCH: So both sides refusing to budge as we see with no budget compromise reached so far and President Trump threatening to declare a national emergency to get military funds to build his wall. Where is this all going do you think and how might this shutdown end?

JOHNSON: Well, if it continues into next week, we are looking at the longest federal shutdown in U.S. history. The record was 21 days under President Bill Clinton. On the one hand, you have members of Congress, including members of the president's own party who are increasingly feeling that this needs to be resolved as quickly as possible.

But on the other hand, the president, I think, is reasonably relaxed about the length of time on this, the language which he's used about this going on for months or years. Although hyperbole suggests that, you know, the thing that he is concerned about the most is this policy commitment on the wall.

And I think that's because he's thinking about his core supporters who at the end of the day is the first constituency that President Trump thinks about when he takes action.

CHURCH: What are the possible political ramifications of doing that? Because he doesn't really -- even though he's playing to his base, we are talking about maybe 39 percent. It's not a great support there. So really, is this something that he could win going forward, pushing this for a very long shutdown because he's publically declared he owns this shutdown?

JOHNSON: I think that if he could he probably would carry on and just basically play a game of chicken with the Democrats where eventually these hundreds of thousands of Americans who are affected by it might push their Democratic representatives to say, look, just give him the money for the wall. We need to be paid, you know, we need services to continue. And I think that's probably what the president is hoping he can do.

But on the other hand, there are Republican members of the Senate, Cory Gardner in Colorado, Susan Collins in Maine, and others, Lamar Alexander in Tennessee, who have suggested that they would be willing to provide some funding to keep the government going without a border wall in it.

And so, if Republicans in the Senate shift on this and are willing to pass the House bill, then I think that could force the president's hand and he would have to probably agree to compromise.

CHURCH: Right. Of course, the irony here is that President Trump says he's doing this to improve security in this country, but the shutdown is now putting airport security at risk with some TSA workers and air traffic controllers calling out sick.

They having to deal with various things, childcare and whether they actually put the money -- where you saw there in the story, whether they actually put the money to gas to get to work. They have to make all of those sorts of decisions. But overall, this is making an airport a very insecure place, isn't it?

JOHNSON: Yes, there are many ironies in this shutdown. One of them is that the TSA, although essential staff, the staff are being asked to work without pay and there is only so long that people can do that. Another irony of the shutdown is that the federal judiciary has been partially affected by this including immigration courts.

So, the very courts which are used to evaluate whether or not someone should be deported are running at reduced, or in some cases not running at all.

And so, we can see throughout the United States there are certain communities which are very heavily affected by this, Native-American communities or in other community, where their services, the services that many Americans rely on state and local funding for like fire and police are actually through a federal funding stream through the interior department.

[03:05:03] And those communities now face basic every-day services potentially being disrupted or ended, which would have a very serious impact.

CHURCH: Right. And of course, the longer the shutdown continues, the more risk there is for both President Trump and the Democrats because people will just be very angry with the consequences, but because President Trump, as we mentioned, has owned this shutdown, there are many risks for him particularly. How does he back out of this without losing face as far as his base goes?

JOHNSON: Well, the politics of this are very interesting and they are unlike previous shutdowns. For example, when President Obama was president and the congressional Republicans tried to successfully shutdown the federal government for a time in an effort to get him to make shifts on the Obamacare policy, President Obama took action to make the shutdown as visible in American's everyday lives as possible because he knew that the blame was being directed not towards him but to congressional Republicans.

So, for example, his administration very visibly shut national monuments, such as the World War II and Vietnam memorials, which don't really need staff and could be left open unstaffed, but made sure those were shut as a way of demonstrating the far-reaching effects of the shutdown.

I think the Trump administration is trying to minimize the impact of the shutdown so that they can continue this for a much longer period of time because they know that the person who is getting the blame in this is not Congress this time, but the president, and that's a new political dynamic.

CHURCH: Right. We'll continue to watch this and see what the outcome is. Richard Johnson, thanks so much for your analysis, appreciate it.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

CHURCH: All right. Well, we are tracking developments in Gabon where the army says it has seized control of the oil-rich African OPEC member. A short time ago, soldiers said they had taken over the state radio station.

They are unhappy with this man, President Ali Bongo. He has been in power since 2009, but his family has effectively ruled since the 1960s. Mr. Bongo has been in Morocco recovering from a stroke.

So let's turn to our David McKenzie who is live in Johannesburg. So, David, what is the latest information that you have on this? DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rosemary what happened was that there were officers that went into that radio station in Libreville in the early hours of this morning in Gabon. You saw APCs or some kind of military vehicles on the streets. Shots were also heard in the Libreville in the early hours of the morning.

Now, in that quite lengthy statement on state radio, they said that they wanted to end the speculation about Ali Bongo's health, who it appears had some kind of stroke or some other major health condition that took him out of the country in the last few months.

Now, the officer who was reading that statement, it was more like a call to action than the announcement of a coup, saying that noncommissioned officers and rank and file military, they wanted them to take control of the airports and critical infrastructure. They also called for civil society leaders and certain political leaders by name to support their cause.

So, it doesn't suggest that all the pieces are in play for a successful coup against Mr. Bongo, as you said. His family has held control of the oil-rich nation for many, many years, took over in 2009, won a disputed election in 2016.

Now, they refer in that statement on the radio station to the health and the address of the president on New Year's from Morocco, I believe, where he clearly showed some health concerns. And they say it's time to end that speculation, and in their words, to restore democracy. It's early hours of this apparent attempted coup.

A side note, there are some 80 U.S. Marines in the country who were sent there on a stand-by basis in case a situation in nearby Democratic Republic of Congo becomes more chaotic to help U.S. citizens. So, there is no real indication yet from presidency or the president himself, but the next few hours will be critical certainly. Rosemary.

CHURCH: So David, do we have any idea if there is any political individual or force behind the army pushing for this or was it inspired from within the military ranks?

MCKENZIE: Well, according to their statement at least, the military officials, the lieutenants who was there, low-ranking military official flanked by two men with weapons at the state radio station in Libreville.

[03:15:02] He is saying that this was a military action to restore confidence in leadership and restore democracy. There could be a political play behind the scenes in Gabon where there has been dissatisfaction with the president from some quarters.

The key question will be how the international community, the African Union, weigh in on this issue in the coming hours and whether they have this broad base support within the military to execute the coup. You know, looking at the statement, it does seem like they are calling on people to -- it was a call to action as opposed to an announcement of a result. So, this is by no means settled yet. And then the meantime, the president who is out of the country and clearly ill, will be tenuously, I am sure, trying to cling on to the power, which his family has held for decades.

CHURCH: No doubt. We'll watch this story very closely. Our David McKenzie joining us live from Johannesburg with the details there, many thanks.

Britain's prime minister is wishing for much needed good luck in the New Year as she tries to convince Parliament to approve her controversial Brexit deal. More on that uphill battle when we come back.

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CHURCH: Welcome back everyone. Well, in the coming hours, negotiators from the U.S. and China will sit down face-to-face. Their job, lay the ground work for a deal that will end the trade war between the world's two largest economies.

China has already made some concessions but President Donald Trump says the tariffs are working so he feels he's got leverage. Let's turn now to CNN's Matt Rivers who joins us live from Beijing with a closer look at all of this.

So, Matt, of course it's critical what both sides say in the lead up to all of this. How hopeful is it if you have got Donald Trump saying he's the one with leverage here?

MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, I mean I think Beijing might argue that they also have some leverage given what's going on in the United States, Rosemary, but I think what everyone can agree on is that there is probably not going to be some sort of an agreement reached or really all that much made public more than likely from these two days worth of meetings going on in Beijing.

The delegation from the United States landed here Sunday evening. They are going to spend the day today on Monday and then on Tuesday, in meetings with their Chinese counterparts before going back to Beijing.

[03:20:02] And I think part of the reason that people aren't expecting an agreement here is because of the level that these talks are being held at. It's really at the vice ministerial level.

So you've got the deputy trade representative from the United States and an under secretary from the Treasury Department for international affairs. They are leading the U.S. delegation and they are meeting people of similar rank from the Chinese side.

And so, as a result, Rosemary, I think what you are seeing is this meeting being viewed as something that could lay the ground work for an agreement potentially later on down the road, what next rounds of talks between more senior members of both sides are going to be.

But in terms of the likelihood of an agreement being reached, Donald Trump says he has leverage because he has correctly stated that China's economy is slowing down. He said as much to reporters over the weekend. Let's hear a little bit of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The China talks are going very well. I spoke to President Xi recently. I really believe they want to make a deal. The tariffs have absolutely hurt China very badly, but our country is taking in a lot of money through tariffs, a lot of money, a lot of tariffs, steel- dumping tariffs and others, but I think China wants to get it resolved. Their economy is not doing well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIVERS: Now, a lot of experts would say that the United States is not taking in a lot of money from tariffs at the moment. But that point aside, the president is correct when he says that China's economy is slowing down and that he thinks the United States has more leverage because China would want to make a deal because this trade war is hurting China's economy, and that is true.

That said, there is a lot of stock market volatility in the United States right now. There is a little bit of pessimism about the U.S. economy going in to 2019 now that we are past the New Year.

So, what you see is maybe some hope for a deal and that both sides might have a little bit more incentive giving the economic situation on both sides. Maybe both sides want to come it a deal more so than they did the last time they talked last year. Rosemary?

CHURCH: So what is it going to take to get a deal here and how long are we talking about here? Are we talking months? Are we talking to the end of the year? What is the likely time frame here?

RIVERS: Well, the deadline is March 1st essentially because what happened in early December between President Xi and President Trump on the sidelines of the G-20 in Argentina, was that they agreed to kind of put a ceasefire in place for 90 days and U.S. would not go forward with putting additional tariffs on Chinese products until March 1st, giving negotiators more time to work out a deal.

That's the deadline that you are looking at now. In terms of what it is going to take, the United States demand has not changed. They want increased intellectual property protection. They want to stop forced technology transfers where American company have to turnover technological know how to Chinese companies in order to do business in this market.

There is a long list of demands that the U.S. has been very consistent with that China has not so far given any room on. So that's what it's going to take and that's why if you are still skeptical of your deal, that's why you'd be skeptical because the U.S. demands are something that so far China hasn't really given a lot of indication that they are willing to give.

CHURCH: Let's see what they achieve by that deadline. Matt Rivers, joining us live from Beijing. Many thanks.

Well, the British parliament is set to reconvene Monday. It is a brand new year of the same old Brexit battles. The Press Association says more than 200 lawmakers have signed a letter against a no deal Brexit. Prime Minister Teresa May says the vote on her proposed deal will take place as planned in mid January.

Many lawmakers worry the plan would leave Britain too beholden to the E.U., but Mrs. May is trying to convince them that a future without her Brexit deal is a dangerous one.

CNN's Anna Stewart joins us now from London. So Anna, of course, the big question, what is going to happen now?

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: What happens next? Well, MPs (ph) have returned from their Christmas break this morning. Teresa May will be hoping that they come back in a more emollient mood, maybe feel of goodwill and good festive cheer after Christmas. But unfortunately, it doesn't look like they'll have enough goodwill and good cheer to get this vote through.

Now, she was pushing yesterday in an interview with BBC's Andrew Marr for this vote saying people need to vote for it because there is frankly isn't another option. But this is the vote that she delayed at the end of last year. She delayed the vote on her deal because she didn't have majority to pass it, and currently, Rosemary, it doesn't look like she'll have majority this time so it doesn't look like it's going to pass.

CHURCH: And she's also ruled out the possibility of any second referendum here. There had been a lot of chatter about that. Is she able to rule that out? Will there be some push from within her own party or outside of that party to go in that direction?

STEWART: It was really interesting in the interview yesterday with the prime minister because she was asked repeatedly, will you, you know, sanction a second referendum if the majority in parliament pushes for it and she just refuse to speak about it full stop.

[03:25:01] She also wouldn't talk about, you know, whether she would extend Article 50, if they needed more time either to put the second referendum in place or just to, you know, negotiate further with the E.U. She won't discuss any options, frankly, at this stage other than this deal, the only deal she says. She won't talk about anything else.

So I think if this vote doesn't get through what she's hoping probably is that she'll try and get it through at another stage, maybe after more talks with the E.U.

CHURCH: How much interest is there politically there for a second referendum?

STEWART: It is -- I mean, it's something that was certainly mounting last year. I would say the same voices we heard just before Christmas, pushing for it. For instance, the labor MP, Chuka Umunna, they are the same voices now pushing for it. The question is whether pressure will mount for a second referendum if this deal fails. Perhaps some conservative MPs within Teresa May's party want to let her have it -- have a go, try and get this deal through parliament and then question what to do next, because, frankly, this is sort of stage of political gridlock. There are a lot of people that think that perhaps you should be putting this back to the people.

Now, Boris Johnson, the former foreign minister, of course, a massive Brexiteer within Teresa May's party, he wrote in the "Daily Telegraph" newspaper today and he said that a no deal Brexit is most like what Brexiteers voted for, what people who voted for Brexit would want, but Chuka Umunna, this labor M.P. or second referendum, also said this morning well, listen, you know, we don't know what people want because we only asked them leave or remain. We don't know what kind of deal they want.

CHURCH: Indeed. Anna Stewart, joining us there live from out the front of 10 Downing Street. We will watch to see what happens there. Appreciate it.

Well, Donald Trump is now considering declaring a national emergency to funds his border wall. But does the U.S. president actually have the power to make that move? We analyze the issue, ahead.

Plus, two Indian women who entered a Hindu shrine breaking with the century's old conservative taboo, talked to CNN about the act of defiance that's now put their lives in jeopardy. We are back in just a moment.

[03:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. I am Rosemary Church. I want to update you now on the main stories we have been following this hour. Army soldiers say they have seized power in the West African nation of Gabon. A short time ago, military members announced they had taken over the state radio station. They say they are unhappy with this man, President Ali Bongo. His family has ruled for decades and he has been in Morocco recovering from a stroke.

The U.S. National Security advisor says the U.S. won't pull out of Syria unless its sure Turkey won't attack U.S. Kurdish allies. That is according to multiple reports. John Bolton was in Jerusalem Sunday and met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

The king of Malaysia is making history by becoming the first royal in the country to abdicate. The national palace announced King Sultan Muhammad Fifth resignation on Sunday. It offered no explanation but said the king's decision takes effect immediately. Now, the council of rulers will have to vote for a new king from one of Malaysia's nine royal houses.

U.S. President Donald Trump says he might declare a national emergency to secure a military funding for his border wall. The vice president met with congressional leaders Sunday but they couldn't reach a budget agreement. The dispute has led to a partial government shutdown, now in its third week.

U.S. politicians from both sides of the aisle took to the air waves Sunday. They spoke about whether the president actually has the authority to secure military funding for his border wall, and they debated the merits of such an action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICK MULVANEY, ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Presidents have authority to defend the nation. The president has asked every single cabinet secretary and the Office of Management Budget to go out and find money that can be used legally to guard the southern border which is exactly what we are going to do.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, ABC NEWS: Does President Trump have the ability, have the authority, to declare a national emergency, have the military build his wall?

REP. ADAM SMITH (D), WASHINGTON: Well, unfortunately, the short answer is yes. There is a provision in law that says the president can declare an emergency. It's been done a number of times. But primarily it's been done to build facilities in Afghanistan and Iraq.

In this case, I think the president would be wide open to a court challenge saying, where is the emergency? You have to establish that in order to do this. But beyond that, this would be a terrible use of Department of Defense dollars.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: So, let's take a closer look at all of this with CNN military analyst Colonel Cedric Leighton, always great to have you with us.

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you, Rosemary, it's good to be with you.

CHURCH: So we just heard from both sides of the political equation, the Democrats suggesting the president does not have the power to declare a national emergency to secure military funds to build his border wall, while the White House and Republicans say he can do whatever he needs to do to secure this nation. So which is right? Does Mr. Trump have the power to do this specifically?

LEIGHTON: To build a wall, the answer is no, not directly. He can do some things and he can move some money around, but he won't be able to move $5 billion worth to actually build the wall that he seems to envision. So there are some limitations that Congress has put into effect in previous administrations. There are also aspects of way in which the appropriations process works in the United States.

And what it really means is that the funds that are set for certain things are earmarked for those things, they can't be used normally for anything else, so there will be some challenges for the president to do what he wants to do. He has limited authority to do some things, but he has no overarching authority to actually build the wall on his own without congressional approval.

CHURCH: Right. So you mentioned that process what is involved here when a U.S. president wants to do something like this, get money from the Pentagon to build a border wall in this country, and would this be deemed a national emergency at all?

LEIGHTON: Well, under normal circumstances, it would not be a national emergency. There is no threat of invasion, you know, in the stricter sense of that term. There is no threat of an armed force coming against the United States.

[03:34:58] If that were the case, the president would then definitely have the authority to do whatever he deemed necessary as the commander-in-chief to actually shore up the defenses along the southern border.

But what we are dealing with here is in some ways a game of semantics. The real answer is that we don't have that kind of an invasion. What is involved in a process like this is you have to get congressional approval to move money from one area to another area. They call it pots of money from one pot to the other.

And the other thing that's involved here is that within the Department of Defense budgets, there are certainly funds that are earmarks for construction, but those construction funds are for military bases, potentially for the army corps of engineers to do certain things that do impact the civilian sector, but these are are not the kinds of things that would be allowed to be transferred to do a -- to construct a border wall.

CHURCH: Right. So, how will the Pentagon likely respond to this, to the president asking for this? And who might stand in Mr. Trump's way?

LEIGHTON: Well, this gets to be a very interesting question. You know, technically, if secretary of defense, former Secretary of Defense Mattis were still in charge, it would be him. Given the fact that the deputy secretary of defense, Mr. Patrick Shanahan, is actually serving as the acting secretary of defense right now, he would normally be the person to do that.

But I think the real answer would be that Congress would stand in the way. They would prevent the movement of funds from one pot of money to the other pot of money and that would in essence prevent or at least has the potential of preventing the president from exercising any authorities that he may think he has to build a southern border wall.

CHURCH: Quick question to you. Do you believe a border wall is necessary to secure this country?

LEIGHTON: No. And the reason I say that is because when you look at the type of geography that the southern border has, and I have been on the southern border particularly in the state of Texas, you look at some of the areas that we have the Rio Grande River, really comprises almost the entire border of Mexico and Texas, and that particular boarder is generally a natural -- is formed by a natural barrier.

There are also areas such as the Big Bend National Park where not only would it be ecologically damaging to put a fence. But from a security perspective, the fence would serve no real purpose. What would be necessary is some kind of increased monitoring through various technical means to include things like facial recognition technologies, better monitoring of who is actually stepping in to the United States from Mexico, things of that nature.

That can be done through technical means. A border wall is not necessary for the entire frontage that we have with Mexico, the entire frontier with Mexico, and that is, I think, really what is getting lost in the debate here at this point.

CHURCH: Thank you, sir, for being with us. We do appreciate it.

LEIGHTON: Absolutely, Rosemary, always a pleasure.

CHURCH: The two Indian women who he defied a conservative taboo to enter a Hindu shrine in Kerala are telling CNN why they felt compelled to do it. The women walked in to the shrine last week, a few months after India's supreme court ruled that the ban against girls and women of childbearing age is unconstitutional. Well, now the women are in hiding as protests rage against their action. Alexandra Field has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Bindu Ammini and Kankadurga are in hiding and at the center of an Indian national controversy. This is video of the two defying centuries of tradition, stepping into the Sabarimala Temple, one of Hinduism's holiest shrines.

This is the violence their visit inspired with police deploying tear gas and water cannons to end clashes between protesters against women entering the sacred site and those for it.

These are some of the millions of women who formed a human chain, hundreds of miles long in a show of solidarity.

BINDU AMMINI, KERALA WOMAN WHO MADE HISTORY BY ENTERING SABARIMALA: My message to the women of India is that please break the system, and please break the evil customs. That's the message.

FIELD (voice over): Bindu Ammini says her pilgrimage to Sabarimala was about gender justice. She was turned back by too many protesters in an earlier attempt to reach the temple in December. This time, police helped her through in the middle of the night after she threatened a hunger strike.

[03:40:00] Ammini, a legal professor, says she showed the law is on her side and that's why she went.

AMMINI: Our constitution and the decision verdict of supreme court and gender justice. Because of that, the protection of all these things, I decided to go to Sabarimala.

FIELD (voice over): In September, India's supreme court overturned a ban that kept women of childbearing age from entering the site believed to be the home of Lord Ayyappa, a Hindu god of growth considered celibate.

Orthodox Hindus believe it's disrespectful for impure women to enter the temple and the issue has become political. India's prime minister, Narendra Modi of the Hindu Nationalist BJP, criticized the court's ruling, calling this a matter of faith and tradition. But in the state of Kerala, the governing party is for the order, even organizing demonstrations to show support.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My message to politicians, they should obey the judgment of supreme court.

FIELD (voice over): She is a devotee who is determined to pay her respects to Lord Ayyappa. And a woman who wants to stand up for gender equality in India. Both women are under constant threat now, moving houses several times a day for safety. Their lives possibly changed forever. Their hope, to make women's lives better.

Alexandra Field, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Two very brave women there. We'll take a short break. Still to come, new details and a tragedy that shocked the United States. Police believe a case of mistaken identity likely caused a little girl's death. We'll have the details in just a moment.

[03:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: A town in Northwest Poland is mourning five girls, all 15 years old, killed while celebrating a friend's birthday. They had gathered at an escape room, a game where participants are locked inside and try to find a way out by searching for clues. But a fire broke out and officials say there was no way to evacuate. Hundreds gathered at a vigil in the town square to honor the girls.

A Houston newspaper says a second suspect has been identified in the death of Jazmine Barnes. She is the 7-year-old girl killed when a hail of bullets went through her car. Police have already charged Eric Black, Jr. in connection with the girl's death. Now, the Houston Chronicle reports Larry Woodruffe has been identified as a second suspect. He is not charged in the killing, but is being held on drug possession charges. Kayle Hartung has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAYLEE HARTUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Authorities say Jazmine Barnes' death is very likely a case of mistaken identity, that when a gunman opened fire on the car she was in, he believed somebody else to be inside. We're told this investigation unraveled very quickly on Friday. Authorities had received a tip by way of activist, Sean King (ph).

They then pulled Eric Black, Jr. over at a traffic stop, brought him in on a possession of marijuana charge, and once he started talking, he eventually confessed to being the driver of the car in which another man sat in the passenger seat and pulled the trigger on the gun that shot and killed Jazmine Barnes.

Authorities say they are being very cautious in their language now as Black is the only man who has been charged in relation to Barnes' murder. They say this is an ongoing investigation. When it comes to the discrepancy between the composite sketch of a white man in his 30s or 40s that investigators were looking for for the past week, you compare that to Black being a black 20-year-old man.

Authorities say there is nothing nefarious about the description they believe Jazmine Barnes' family gave, but that when they were caught up in the chaos of the moment, the white man in that red pickup truck is very likely the last thing they saw. He is not a person of interest. They believe he is a witness, and they do hope that he comes forward to discuss what he may have seen last Sunday morning.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: All right. We'll take a short break. Still to come, the first awards show of the season produced some upsets. We'll run down the surprises and snubs at this year's Golden Globe Awards. Back in a moment.

[03:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Awards season got up to a great start with the 76th annual Golden Globes Awards in Hollywood honoring the best in TV and movies. Hosts Sandra Oh and Andy Samberg poked good-hearted fun at the stars attending the ceremony and at one point gave them a big surprise. Blow shots.

And now a look at the winners. "Bohemian Rhapsody," the story of rock group Queen and its lead singer Freddie Mercury, won two awards. Best actor, Rami Malek, and best motion picture, and he thanked the man he portrayed in the film.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAMI MALEK, ACTOR: Thank you to Freddie Mercury for giving me the joy of a lifetime. I love you, you beautiful man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Fantastic. Glenn Close, who won best actress in a motion picture for her role in "The Wife," spoke about women in film. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLENN CLOSE, ACTRESS: We have to find personal fulfillment. We have to follow our dreams.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: "Vice" star Christian Bale won best actor in a comedy movie for his portrayal of former U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney. He thanked the usual people with one exception.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIAN BALE, ACTOR: Thank you to Satan no giving me inspiration on how to play this role.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: There is a first. And the big news of the night was of course the surprises before the show. Movie insiders expected "A Star Is Born" and "Vice" to runaway with most of the awards, but that did not happen. Let's bring in entertainment journalist Kim Serafin, joining us live from Los Angeles. Good to see you.

Nice city you.

CHURCH: So "Bohemian Rhapsody" surprised everyone by beating out "A Star Is Born" with two awards. What might this signal do you think for the Oscars and of course the awards season?

KIM SERAFIN, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: It was interesting, you're right, everyone expected "A Star Is Born" to really dominate. Lady Gaga, people thought she would get the award. Bradley Cooper, people thought he would get it either for acting or directing. They really did no get that. It was a big night for "Bohemian Rhapsody" and also big night for "Green Book."

The thing is that the Golden Globes, they are not really always a predictor of the Oscars. You would look more to the Producers Guild Awards to really predict the best picture or even Screen Actors Guild Awards. The Golden Globes get it right maybe about 50 percent of the time but it does kind of just giving more momentum now to "Bohemian Rhapsody," especially Rami Malek winning.

CHURCH: Yeah, you can imagine a lot of people are going to run out to watch the movie. My 15-year-old actually found it the best movie she had ever seen, which was really quite a surprise.

(LAUGHTER)

SERAFIN: It was definitely a great movie and this really I think does give it that kind of momentum.

CHURCH: Yeah.

SERAFIN: But I don't think, you know, don't "A Star Is Born" out.

CHURCH: Right.

SERAFIN: I don't think this is the end of the road for them because certainly I think still people think Lady Gaga is going to be one of the front runners for the Oscars for sure.

CHURCH: We will be watching for that. And of course, Glenn Close, she took the top actress award. How surprised were you by that outcome? Some were saying this was a snub to Lady Gaga. SERAFIN: It was interesting she was so surprised. I think she got on stage. You saw her, just so emotional and just really just shocked. I think, you know, look, the Golden Globes, again, they kind of can surprise you. They kind of pick someone out of left field that you would not expect, but Glenn Close certainly deserve it.

Her speech -- I think just to see her speech was incredible. You played some clips of that. She talked about her mother. She talked about women. She got a standing ovation. She made some jokes about it. You know, it is called "The Wife" that's why it took 14 years to make.

[03:54:59] That was kind of continuing that theme throughout the evening that you saw of people really continuing the Time's Up Movement, time's up times two. You know, it was really about women and female empowerment. You saw a lot of that and Glenn Close was really a perfect example of that.

CHURCH: Yeah, and I want to look at that because there were other impressive and inspiring speeches from actor Regina King, you mentioned Glenn Close, host Sandra Oh about women om film and TV. And we also saw diversity on display. How significant was this Golden Globe Awards show compared to previous shows?

SERAFIN: Yeah. You know, usually in awards season and award shows, you normally hear politics talked about. That has been the theme for several years now. Andy Samberg and Sandra Oh did say they were going to have this kind of politics free show and it really was other than that one clip that you played of Christian Bale.

What we thought, what we saw more, the theme of diversity and female empowerment and inclusion and authenticity. I think that really shown through. As you mentioned, Regina King, when she won her award, talked about how she is making a bow, when she produces film, she is going to make it 50 percent about women. She challenged people in Hollywood and in other industries to do the same.

So many other people got up there. Peter Farrelly, when he was accepting for "Green Book," talked about if these two men can get along, we all can as well. Alfonso Cuaron talked about breaking down walls. Maybe that was a little bit of the road to the wall discussion we're having now but more about just inclusion and society coming together and love. That was really the kind of positive element that we saw throughout this Golden Globes.

CHURCH: Yeah. Some positive messages that some people described in the show as a little sleepy, but certainly had some tremendous speeches and messages there. Kim Serafin, always a pleasure to chat with you. Thank you.

SERAFIN: Thanks so much.

CHURCH: And thank you for your company. I am Rosemary Church. Early Start is next for our viewers here in the United States. And for everyone else, stay tuned for more news with Max Foster in London. Have yourselves a great day.

[04:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)