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No Breakthrough as U.S. Government Shutdown Enters Day 17; White House Lies about Security Risks on Southern Border; Bolton: U.S. Will Leave Syria Once ISIS Defeated, Kurds Safe. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired January 07, 2019 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: He's painted himself into a corner.

[07:00:05] SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: The president will compromise, but he will not capitulate.

We're not going to give in to this radical left.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I can relate that people are on the receiving end will make adjustments.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are real consequences to a prolonged shutdown. The president doesn't seem to understand that.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: This is our moment to dream big, fight hard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are people who think Biden would have the best shot to beat President Trump. He does recognize the need to make it clear his plans this time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got to make sure that we touch all segments of the American public in order to take back the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Beautiful sunrise. Welcome to your NEW DAY.

This morning the White House is rolling out a new strategy to end the government shutdown. Call it steel and deceit. Quite a recipe. This is now the second longest shutdown ever in a fight over the president's border wall.

The president now says he wants $5.7 billion for a steel barrier. It's not a concrete wall anymore, though it is still not being paid for by Mexico.

The White House did outline where it says the money will go for the 234 new miles of barrier. The president is also threatening to declare a national emergency to bypass Congress and build the wall.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: The White House and DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen are pedaling false claims and numbers about the situation at the southern border to scare people; and they are being called out for it in many corners. So we'll give you the facts.

Also this morning, President Trump's own national security adviser says there will be no rapid drawdown of U.S. troops from Syria. John Bolton's comments directly contradict the president's vow to immediately bring U.S. troops home.

BERMAN: Joining us now, we've got something very special for you. Two new CNN political commentators who just left Congress last week. Mia Love is a former Republican member from Utah; Luis Gutierrez, a former Democratic member from Illinois. Thank you both.

CAMEROTA: Welcome.

BERMAN: Welcome. We'll teach you the secret handshake after this segment here.

Look, before we jump in to the today issues, Representative, just what was it like to watch this new Congress sworn in for you?

MIA LOVE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It was a little surreal. I remember being there with my kids, and I wanted them to be on the floor so that they -- so that I remember and that they could see this -- this incredible process and how important it is to be involved. How you can't just sit back and let just -- let things happen.

And so it was really -- it was a little bittersweet, actually. There was one point where I sat there, and I thought, "Gosh, thank goodness, you know, I'll let them have that." And there are other moments where you feel, you know, like we -- we accomplished something and my kids got to see -- got to see -- got to be there and see it.

CAMEROTA: What about you, Congressman? Are you relieved to be on this side of the table now?

LUIS GUTIERREZ, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I'm going to be traveling around the country, tearing down a wall that's actually been built. There are a million green-card holders that have applied for American citizenship.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

GUTIERREZ: What does that mean? They paid 725 bucks so that they could get their fingerprints checked by the FBI and go through a background check, taken English and a civics class, write tests, and swear allegiance. And this administration now is at 20 months. They're trapped. So let's tear -- I want to tear down that wall.

CAMEROTA: Meaning they're not able to get their citizenship?

GUTIERREZ: So under Obama we fought, we struggled for eight years. At the end, it was taking six months from the time. And let's remember, this is a process that is totally paid for by the

immigrant, right? There's no government subsidy at all. And it was taking six months. It shouldn't be taking that long. It's a million people. They want to vote.

So the National Partnership for New Americans, I'm going to be working with them, traveling around the country, doing a lot of what I did without the restraints of having to show up in Congress and vote.

BERMAN: You're both like yes, yes, without the restraints.

LOVE: No restraints, you know. A little untethered is what I say, unleashed.

GUTIERREZ: I agree, Mia.

LOVE: And being able to just go out and speak your mind and actually get -- get things done by getting the American public involved.

BERMAN: Let's start today. Let's start right now.

LOVE: Yes.

BERMAN: We have a shutdown.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BERMAN: The second longest shutdown in history. Fix it. If I feel like, if we sat you both at a table or put you in a room, a Republican and a Democrat, and said you've got 20 minutes to make a deal, I bet you could.

LOVE: We would get it done. We'd get it done.

BERMAN: You're the Republican at the table. Wat would you offer?

LOVE: Well, I can tell you first of all, let's go back a little bit.

This thing was set to fail right when it started. You have people in a room. You're -- you have a president that says, "If you don't give me a wall, I will own the shutdown." And of course, I thought the Democrats were like, "Great, take it, deal. Done," because you know, it was just, "We don't have to give you a wall and you're going to own a shutdown."

There was no leverage. There was nothing that would even set precedent for a really good deal or compromise.

In Congress, in the House, we actually had a pretty good comprehensive bill that had a border wall. It had border security. It had helping people at the borders, helping families stay together at the borders, had a fix for DACA, which is something that we have worked on together. As the daughter of parents who immigrated to this country, this is something that has been very important to me and getting Republicans to come along with that. [07:05:27] We actually had a really good comprehensive bill that we

couldn't get through. And so I -- it was just really frustrating to me, because we're leaving everything in the hands of the administration. That's where it shouldn't be. Whenever you consolidate too much power in the White House, it's doomed to just -- to just fail. I mean, there's no way that we're going to -- the voice of the American people aren't heard.

CAMEROTA: And so as a Democrat, if you had to negotiate right now at this table here today, would you give billions of dollars for some sort of barrier?

GUTIERREZ: Here's what I will say. Democrats have offered on multiple occasions money to this administration for their wall.

CAMEROTA: So why not now? I get it. They've done it in the past, and I understand that there is egos involved. But why not today to stop the government shutdown?

GUTIERREZ: Because you cannot negotiate with someone who doesn't keep their word. That is what you have reported and what we know. You go into a room.

So now we have senator Lindsey Graham saying, "Oh, I don't want to negotiate with those radical leftist Democrats. Why don't we take Dick Durbin and negotiate with him?"

Well, Lindsey, you were with Dick Durbin when you walked into the room with the president of the United States, and he said that these were "S"-hole countries, and he rejected the deal that you brought. You, Lindsey Graham, went to the president and said, "You give more, you get more."

Now why would someone like Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders vote for 25 billion -- I want to make it clear -- 25 billion for a wall? They think it's immoral, because they understand it's the ransom, right, that you pay for the freedom of 2 million at that point, DREAMers.

CAMEROTA: And that was the deal in the past. And that was the deal in the past.

GUTIERREZ: That was the deal in the past. And I think that if you're going to negotiate, right -- I hate the wall. I think it's immoral. I think it's wasteful. But I also think of the lives of 2 million young men and women and how we can transform it until we have a more reasonable set.

So -- so I don't know if somebody showed up at your house and said, "I want this," you'd say, "Well, that's not fair." Sometimes justice, fairness is not fair in terms of how you get it.

BERMAN: But you would be willing to give some fencing, some barrier to end this shutdown?

GUTIERREZ: I think that, if they came and said, "Look, we're going to do the DREAM Act. We're going to allow 2 million people a pathway to citizenship. We're going to do that, and that's the cost" -- because here's what I'm thinking.

By the time you do the contracts, by the time you issue them and the specs and you get people out there, I don't think President Trump's going to be president of the United States of America. Now, that's a risk that I'm taking, right?

CAMEROTA: And you're saying that Democrats should cough up the 5 billion right now?

GUTIERREZ: I think -- No, I think they should continue to maintain their current posture until this administration comes forward and says, "You want to do something comprehensive? Here's our comprehensive." Not this "Oh, we're going to go from concrete to steel." What I want to do is to go from -- from this cruelty to a little bit of humanity versus our immigrant community.

CAMEROTA: Go ahead, Mia.

LOVE: I think what's really frustrating right now is actually seeing none of that happen. DACA recipients are still completely in limbo. There are people that are here in the United States that want to be citizens of the United States, nothing's happening. Nothing's actually happening on the border.

So I think that that's what is the biggest frustration, because while everybody's trying to get their piece in, absolutely nothing is getting done. And it's just tug of war. And we're playing ping-pong with the lives of the American people. And I think that that is the thing that is just most frustrating, especially coming from being a mayor, where we actually got things done, where you were sitting there not thinking that one side, you know, you couldn't fix one side of the street that had potholes, you know, just because -- I mean, people drove on both sides of the street. Every issue that we dealt with, not one issue was a Republican or a Democrat issue.

And I really wish that Washington would work that way, because these are American issues. And so this tug of war that's happening, no one is getting anything out of it. And I think that that's -- that's the most frustrating thing and I think that that's what Luis is saying, is that he -- you know, you have to think of what -- what is the biggest issue here?

You've got people that are here that we have to get things done for. You can't go to "Z" and not pick -- and not fix "A," "B," and "C." right?

So if you're going to -- if we're going to get things done, let's look at what's reasonable. How do we -- how do we actually get border security, right, and how do we actually fix the immigration problem? Because that is what -- that's what really has to be done here.

BERMAN: Look at what's reasonable and you have to look at what's true also. And it's interesting that the White House, and Scott Jennings, who's a Republican who worked for Mitch McConnell, worked for George H.W. -- or George W. Bush, is saying he was surprised that the White House new strategy appears to be ramp up fears over terror over the weekend.

Listen to Sarah Sanders tell Chris Wallace --

CAMEROTA: Attempt to.

BERMAN: Attempt to, suggest that somehow thousands of terrorists are coming to the United States from Mexico. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We know that roughly -- nearly 4,000 known or suspected terrorists come into our country illegally, and we know that our most vulnerable point of entry is at our southern border.

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Wait, wait, because I know this statistic. I didn't know if you were going to use it, but I studied up this. Do you know where those 4,000 people come, where they're captured? Airports.

SANDERS: Not always.

WALLACE: At airports.

SANDERS: But certainly -- certainly a large number --

WALLACE: The State Department says there hasn't been any terrorists that they found coming across the southern border.

SANDERS: But it's by air; it's by land; and it's by sea. It's by all of the above.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: It's not --

CAMEROTA: Not true.

BERMAN: -- all of the above. The State Department statistic Chris was referencing there -- let me read this to you -- "No credible information" -- there is no credible information -- "that any member of a terrorist group has traveled through Mexico to gain access to the United States."

So, Mia, again, you're a representative; you're a Republican, former member of Congress. When you see the White House making that argument over the weekend, your reaction?

LOVE: I haven't always agreed with -- with the White House. I think the unfortunate thing here is that you're -- they're focusing on the wrong thing.

I've looked at what's happened on the border. I've done a lot of things with -- in terms of human trafficking on financial services, terrorism and illicit financing. I've done a lot of work with children that have been trafficked in Haiti. I've done a lot of work, with O.U.R., Operation Underground Railroad, that saved these children from human trafficking.

I mean, you take these numbers and skewing them, that's not -- that's not really what's going to fix, again, fix the problem. One child being trafficked is one too many.

So, OK, I think the American people, I think for the most part, we say give us some border security that is meaningful that actually does something. Putting out numbers that obviously, you know, that aren't -- that you can't verify or --

CAMEROTA: But I mean they're wrong. I mean, it's just --

LOVE: It messes -- it doesn't fix the issue.

CAMEROTA: No. I hear you that it's not helpful. But is it -- is there also something just really disconcerting about not being able to trust the secretary of homeland security, not being able to trust the press secretary to give you the facts?

LOVE: Well, I think you always have to make sure that whenever, especially the administration, they have to make sure that their numbers are correct. You can't go out and put numbers out there that -- that you don't know about.

I mean, I've had to look at -- and verify and reverify, because I don't want somebody coming back and saying, "Hey, you're absolutely wrong." So I think it's important, when you're talking to the American people, that you're always truthful and at least you're given correct information.

And I think that's been a problem in the administration, where one person is giving one piece of information and somebody else is doing something completely different.

GUTIERREZ: Yes.

LOVE: And the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

GUTIERREZ: I think Mia and I understand something, that every port of entry is the border, every airport, LAX, O'Hare. And people come by the thousands. They overstay their visas. And we know September 11, actually the people that hijacked those airplanes came legally into the United States of America. They didn't come through -- but it's all part of the mantra, isn't it, of Donald Trump to say, "Mexicans are murderers, rapists. They're terrible people." He started his campaign and he said, "Let's build a wall."

Look, you've seen El Chapo Guzman, one mile underground.

CAMEROTA: Tunnel, right.

GUTIERREZ: Dug with air-conditioning and a motorcycle. You think a wall is going to stop criminal elements and cartels? Why don't we also focus on our own responsibility as a nation --

CAMEROTA: Yes. GUTIERREZ: -- of consumers of the illicit drugs that cross and the

demand for those illicit drugs, and work together with El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico. Let's work together in harmony. Hemispheric harmony.

You know, the Europeans, they're having a little bit of trouble with Brexit. They're trying to figure it out. The Asians are trying to figure it out. Why don't we get together as Americans -- North, Central, South Americans, and -- because guess what? We're in it together.

LOVE: We are. We are. And there are people that are out there that want to see Americans harmed. So that's an area where we can actually say, "OK, what are we going to do?" Those tunnels, nobody's talking about those tunnels that are actually -- they're built and they're built well and fast. And so --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BERMAN: Under budget.

LOVE: So there are major problems that we have to deal with. I'd like to get away from all of the nonsense and actually get to the point where we're having a dialogue and getting these things -- getting these things done.

BERMAN: Very quickly let me ask you, Representative, John Bolton,, who's the national security adviser, went to Israel last night and presented a new policy on U.S. troop withdrawal from Syria which appears to be directly in opposition of the president's laid out policy.

John Bolton says there should be conditions for removing U.S. troops from Syria, including the complete obliteration of ISIS, including protection for the Kurds that have been fighting alongside the U.S., including assurances that Iran won't get the Syrian oil.

The president had said withdrawal in 30 days, no conditions. This is a walk-back of the president's plan. Which is the administration plan right now?

LOVE: Well, again, Israel has been a very good ally. They have been on the front lines of the war on terror. And I think it would do us some good to make sure that we are listening to what they're saying. And I'm not really -- again, this is -- this is a -- one part of the administration saying something else, and the other part of the administration they're not really getting together and agreeing. And that's what is really disconcerning [SIC]. Is that if we're not going to be on the same page, if we don't have the same strategy, then -- then how are we actually -- how do we know what the right step is? And so --

GUTIERREZ: When do we begin to work on peace and a peaceful resolution of the crisis in Syria and bring together the major partners? We always talk about war and how many more combatants and how many

more missiles and how many more guns and ships we're going to bring. How about sitting down in diplomacy and negotiating? Because the people of Syria are suffering. ISIS needs to be crushed. They have common enemies. Right? Let's all come together and let's negotiate.

CAMEROTA: Let's give peace a chance.

GUTIERREZ: Please.

CAMEROTA: Luis Gutierrez --

GUTIERREZ: I know I'm 65, but, yes. That's how I grew up.

CAMEROTA: Mia Love, Luis Gutierrez, welcome --

BERMAN: Our new teammates.

CAMEROTA: -- to the CNN family. Great to have you guys both.

BERMAN: Up next, we're going to speak to one of the fact checkers who helped debunk that oft-repeated lie about terrorists at the border. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:20:38] BERMAN: White House press secretary Sarah Sanders, she was caught pedaling this deceit about terrorists crossing the southern border. And it happened live on television, and she was caught on FOX News. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: We know that roughly -- nearly 4,000 known or suspected terrorists come into our country illegally, and we know that our most vulnerable point of entry is at our southern border.

WALLACE: Wait, wait, I know this statistic. I didn't know if you were going to use it, but I studied up this. Do you know where those 4,000 people come, where they're captured? Airports.

SANDERS: Not always.

WALLACE: At airports.

SANDERS: But certainly -- certainly --

WALLACE: The State Department says there hasn't been any terrorists that they found coming across the southern border.

SANDERS: It's by air; it's by land; and it's by sea. It's all of the above.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Joining us now ask the fact checker columnist for "The Washington Post," Glenn Kessler.

Glenn, thanks for being with us. Four thousand terrorists apprehend coming into the U.S. Where are they coming?

GLENN KESSLER, FACT CHECKER COLUMNIST, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, these aren't actually terrorists either.

BERMAN: Right.

KESSLER: These are what are known as special-interest aliens, which could mean -- so it just means someone that's coming from a country that's somewhat suspect, like Afghanistan or Iraq.

The Department of Homeland Security has admitted in testimony before Congress that many of these people are actually fleeing violence, that they're not terrorists.

So what you see here with Sarah Sanders is she takes one statistic, this 4,000 special-interest aliens, turns them into terrorists and then slips in the idea that somehow they might have been coming from the southern border, even though they are, you know, because she's called it our most vulnerable point of entry. But these -- Chris Wallace was exactly right. These are people coming in at airports, occasionally, maybe at a port, you know, on a ship. But they're not terrorists.

BERMAN: Chris Wallace has the benefit of having government statistics to back him up. The State Department, in a report that came out last year said there's "no credible information that any member" -- that any member -- "of a terrorist group has traveled through Mexico to gain access to the United States." That seems pretty definitive, Glenn.

KESSLER: Yes, it is. And that's an official government report.

But when you see here in this administration is this constant effort to take legitimate government statistics, twist them, manipulate them, put them out in ways that are highly misleading to the American public.

Last week in the news conference, there was a reporter that said, "Mr. President, can you tell us more about these terrorists that are crossing the border?"

And he turned to the homeland security secretary, Kirstjen Nielsen, and said, you know, "Kirstjen, please tell them about the terrorists." She was careful in her remarks to refer to special-interest aliens.

BERMAN: Right.

KESSLER: So she knows that it's a bogus statistic, but she's playing along with the game used by the White House to suggest there are, like, thousands of terrorists every year crossing the southern border.

BERMAN: The Cato Institute, I think has put out a report noting that no special-interest aliens have committed acts of terror either in the United States.

Another statistic the president likes to throw out there is, what is it ten terrorists a day? What's that?

KESSLER: Well, that's from the same dataset. They're just -- you know, they're taking the nearly 4,000, dividing by 365 and, you know, it's the same manipulated statistic. So it's --

BERMAN: It seems to me what you're saying is that any way you look at this, any way you crunch the numbers, anyway you do the math, it's heavily misleading, if not deceitful?

KESSLER: Yes, exactly. And particularly -- particularly when they take this number and somehow try to tie it to the border with Mexico, whereas you noted the State Department says there's no evidence that any terrorists have crossed the border with Mexico.

BERMAN: And of course, has this been pointed out to the administration, the White House? Do they know what the truth is here?

KESSLER: I think they do. I think certainly, the homeland security secretary knows, because you could see how she was very careful not to say that these were terrorists. And she knows that these are statistics that they're manipulating.

We have brought this up before. You know, Vice President Pence used that statistic, about ten a day. But, you know, they have a line they're trying to peddle, and they're trying to make people be fearful of the southern border. So they're going to manipulate the statistics as best they can.

BERMAN: And you have a new --

KESSLER: And we're going to keep fact-checking them as they do it.

[07:25:09] BERMAN: Does this qualify for bottomless fact check? Don't you have a new standard by which you judge the administration?

KESSLER: Well, yes. Well, the bottomless Pinocchio, it requires a politician to say it 20 or more times. President Trump hasn't said it 20 times yet, but when he does, it will be a bottomless Pinocchio.

BERMAN: We have a count going right now. You do have the running meter checking the president and the statements that need fact- checking full of falsehoods. What's the new number?

KESSLER: Seven thousand, six hundred and forty-five as of December 30. I kind of think he's added at least a hundred, 150 in the last week every time he comes out and does a news conference or a cabinet meeting.

BERMAN: Glenn Kessler of "The Washington Post," you are a busy man. We'll let you get back to work. Thanks so much.

KESSLER: You're welcome. CAMEROTA: All right. Senator Elizabeth Warren already on the

campaign trail. Will former vice president Joe Biden be joining her out there soon? What we've learned about his decision.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: CNN has learned that former Vice President Joe Biden will make his choice about a potential run for president in the next month. According to one ally, Biden is leaning towards running.