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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
Source Says Rod Rosenstein to Leave Justice Department; Trump Stops Short of Requiring National Emergency Over Border Wall; Manafort Shared Polling Data with Russian Agent; UK Prime Minister Suffers Brexit Setback in Parliament; Secretary of State Pompeo in Cairo After Surprise Iraq Visit. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired January 9, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani. Big news from Washington. Robert Mueller's boss is
leaving his job. It comes after another huge bombshell in the Mueller probe that was revealed by mistake. Also, tonight, another day, another
big defeat for Theresa May just days away from the latest crucial vote in the Brexit debate. And I speak to a star of the NBA in the United States
who doesn't want to travel to London for a game of basketball. Fearing assassination. We'll have that for you.
Just a day after a bombshell surfaced in the Russia investigation by accident, another development is raising new questions about the future of
the probe. The source says that the Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, the official overseeing the Mueller investigation, plans to
step down. In a few weeks, he's reportedly waiting for Donald Trump's Attorney General nominee to be confirmed. Rosenstein appointed Special
Counsel Robert Mueller and has protected this investigation against repeated attacks by President Trump and some fellow Republicans.
Now, this comes as we are still very much digesting yesterday's revelation, that Mr. Trump's former campaign chairman Paul Manafort shared campaign
polling data with an alleged kremlin operative. It is the clearest publication yet of coordination between the Trump campaign and Russia.
President Trump is not commenting on that revelation, his big focus, of course, is what he continues to call a crisis at the U.S. southern border.
Mr. Trump is on Capitol Hill right now. He's trying to build on his speech last night and rally support for a border wall. He and vice-President
pence are having lunch with GOP officials on Capitol Hill. Earlier he suggested he could use executive authority to get wall funding if talks
with lawmakers to end the budget impasse and reopen the government break down. Listen to Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn't you announce it last night and when might you --
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Because I think we might work a deal. And if we don't, I may go that route. I have the absolute
right to do national emergency if I want.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your threshold for when --
TRUMP: My threshold will be if I can't make a deal with people that are unreasonable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Let's get the very latest now from Washington. We are joined by justice correspondent Jessica Schneider and White House reporter Jeremy
Diamond. Jessica, I want to start with you. What does this Rod Rosenstein departure actually mean for the Mueller probe?
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's the big question here, how will this Russia probe continue when Rod Rosenstein's eventually
out? What we know at this point is Rod Rosenstein has already signaled that he will stay at the Justice Department until this investigation is
complete or at least to the point where it's complete enough that it can't really be tampered with, then he'll leave. So that kind of gives you an
indication that, with our reporting that Rod Rosenstein could be gone in the next several weeks or a month or so, that maybe Mueller's investigation
is actually winding down. We know that Rod Rosenstein, he will leave the Justice Department, will step down as deputy Attorney General after William
Barr is confirmed. The confirmation process for William Barr, it starts on Tuesday. It will likely last about three to four weeks at a minimum. So,
it will probably be around mid-February when Rod Rosenstein is actually out. But he's been overseeing this probe, so the question is does that
mean it might end once he leaves? And if it doesn't, what will happen to it? What could happen to a final report for this probe? If William Barr
is at the helm overseeing this, will he actually release that report to Congress, to the public? He's indicated today that he won't step in the
way, that he'll be transparent. So, we'll see what plays out, Hala.
GORANI: One more, Jessica. Was he forced out, or did he choose to leave? And if he chose to leave, why do it at such a critical time?
SCHNEIDER: A very clear read from our source saying that Rod Rosenstein was not forced out. This was something that he's long been planning for,
that he planned to leave really at the conclusion of the Mueller investigation. You know, most deputy Attorney Generals, they only stay on
the job for about 18 months. We're a little bit past that right now. Rod Rosenstein has been in that position since late April of 2017. So really
approaching the two-year mark. It's maybe a little bit longer than most Attorney Generals or deputy Attorney Generals might stay for. You know, he
has indicated he wants to see this Mueller investigation through. And if that's the case, we could be looking at some sort of wrap of the
investigation, maybe by the time William Barr is confirmed within the next month.
[14:05:00] GORANI: All right. And Jeremy Diamond, Donald Trump is on Capitol Hill right now as we mentioned, he gave that oval office address,
it's the first in his presidency. And he's very much doubling down on the notion that he could use emergency powers to bypass Congress if they don't
fund the wall that he wants to see built or funded.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right, Hala. We heard the President last night deliver his primetime address, and he focused on
the need for a wall. But he did not talk about this emergency declaration. He had considered declaring that national emergency last night in that
speech, but ultimately decided not to. But today we are hearing the President very much making clear that it's something that he's still
keeping the door open to. And the reason why is because that stalemate on Capitol Hill between Republicans and Democrats, between Democratic
leadership and the President, has not budged at all, despite the President's speech last night. There has not been no movement there at
all. The President knows that it may very well be that if he does, indeed, want this border wall, if there is no way for him to do without it, that
this may be the only route that he has. And even still, that emergency declaration is sure to face challenges in the federal courts. Democrats
have already said that it's something the President does not have the authority to do, to declare this emergency in order to get border wall
funding. But the President is on Capitol Hill to try and also shore up Republican support because there had been some cracks that are revealing
themselves among Senate Republicans, indicating that they want the government reopened. The President's border wall demand be damned. So,
the President wants to make sure those Republican senators are holding the line with him.
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much, Jeremy Diamond at the White House for that update and Jessica Schneider as well. Thanks to both of you.
For months now, Mr. Trump's attorneys have suggested special counsel Mueller is wrapping up his investigation. But the truth is no one really
knows how much longer we'll have to wait for his final report. Who is directly involved in the probe, of course. Here's what we do know.
Mueller's probe has already produced criminal charges against more than 30 people and three Russian entities. And just last week, his secretive grand
jury was granted an extension to continue six more months. Some to negotiate plea deals so far were members of Mr. Trump's inner circle,
including his former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, his former attorney and fixer Michael Cohen, his former national security advisor Michael
Flynn. Our next guest knows Robert Mueller well. Michael Zeldin was special assistant at the Justice Department and he joins us now as a CNN
legal analyst. Michael, thanks for being with us. So, let's talk about this Rod Rosenstein departure. What do you make of it at this particular
MICHAEL ZELDIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's very hard to know exactly. There are two things that sort of weigh against one another. On the one
hand, you have a new Attorney General who is going to be confirmed sometime in February, and it is very traditional that a new Attorney General brings
in his or her own Deputy Attorney General, because the deputy Attorney General really is the chief operating officer of the department and the
A.G. is really the CEO of the department. So, to have somebody who he has worked with and trusts makes logical sense. On the other hand, Rosenstein
said he will not leave essentially until the Mueller investigation is done or protected. So, we don't know whether these things are at odds or they
just coincide with one another. The investigation is coming to an end, Barr is coming in, he's going to bring his new person and we're going to
see a report from Mueller sometime in the first quarter.
GORANI: CNN's reporting is he was not pushed, which, you know, logically you could infer from that that he maybe feels like this Mueller probe is
wrapping up. Would that be fair to say?
ZELDIN: Yes, that would be one fair conclusion, that he is true to his word, that when the investigation is over, he's going to leave. As Jessica
said, the normal tenure for these jobs is 18 months. They're killer jobs, they work 16 hours a day, six days a week. The grand jury has been
extended as you said in the Mueller investigation. Mueller is litigating now in the Supreme Court over information from a Russian or we think
Russian financial institution. So, there are indications that he's still active in his pursuit of evidence, and that undermines the notion the case
may be coming to a quick end. Too many contradictory factors here.
[14:10:00] GORANI: There are too contradictory dimensions here to this. But this comes after that bombshell accidental revelation that Paul
Manafort shared, you know, very sensitive campaign intel with a suspected Russian operative in 2016.
ZELDIN: That's exactly right. When you ask what was the collusion, this may be the closest thing to what that was, which was that Paul Manafort, as
chairman of the Trump campaign, passed on to Russians connected with Vladimir Putin, sensitive polling, internal polling information, which is
believed to have been used then by the Russian social media outlets to affect the outcome of the election. What is unknown is was Manafort doing
this on his own, or was he doing with the knowledge and consent of the President. That still needs to be determined.
GORANI: So, what happens, then, if the Mueller team concludes that this was done with the blessing of the President when he was a candidate? How
does that impact the overall probe?
ZELDIN: Well, that could be seen as a violation of two different laws of the United States. One is the conspiracy to interfere with the honesty,
integrity of an election. And two is to coordinate with foreign nationals to give and receive things of value, which is prohibited. So, if it is
true, as we just are positing hypothetically, that candidate Trump and his campaign apparatus was in coordination with the Russians over this stuff,
that could be a law violation.
GORANI: So -- but then once the report is finished and published, if Rod Rosenstein is gone, who then decides what happens to it?
ZELDIN: Barr, the new Attorney General takes over the investigation. Remember, Jeff Sessions, his predecessor, was recused. So once Barr comes
in, Barr comes in an un-recused fashion. And under the regulations, the confidential report Mueller is to submit goes to the Attorney General who
then has to make a determination what to do with it. Barr is reported to have said today to Senator Lindsey Graham, an important Republican senator
from South Carolina, that he will be as transparent with the report as possible. What that means, we'll wait and see.
GORANI: But I wonder, you know Robert Mueller. Do you think this means he's going to try to accelerate things if he fields like the departure of
Rosenstein could expose his investigation and potentially, you know, mean that the report itself won't get to Congress as he hopes that it will?
ZELDIN: I would be surprised. Mueller, if nothing, is methodical, and I would think that he is going to follow what has been his path for the last
two years now and take the facts in evidence along the line as they progress, and then he's going to issue his report and findings and
indictments if they are required, according to his own timetable, and not worry about the politics of the main Department Of Justice.
GORANI: And lastly, I think for our international viewers, this is always the biggest question. When we talk about the Mueller probe, which is what
does it mean for a sitting President, you know, if within the report there is some evidence that was gathered -- and certainly in some of the
indictments that were issued, some sense that perhaps the President was made aware of some of these decisions to reach out, outside of the campaign
ZELDIN: Right. So, under Justice Department policy, while the President is in office, they call it a sitting President. While he's in office,
Justice Department policy prohibits him from being indicted in a criminal indictment and charged and tried in a criminal court. And so, they'd have
to wait for him to leave office to do that if the facts merited it. However, under the constitution, if a President engages in behavior, which
is sort of unbecoming the office of the President which they call high crimes and misdemeanors, which is bad behavior, then they can institute
what they call impeachment proceedings against him to seek his removal from office. That is exactly what they did with Bill Clinton. They impeached
him, that is, they brought charges against him. But in the Senate where the case was tried, they did not get the 67 votes necessary to remove him
so we could be going down that path depending on what the evidence tells us.
GORANI: Michael Zeldin, as always, appreciate having you on the program this evening.
[14:15:00] Now, here to the U.K. where the British prime minister suffered a fresh Brexit blow, it is the second set back for her government in just
two days. And as many days, Parliamentary votes lawmakers forced their own timetable on Theresa May. It took some power away from her today. If her
deal is rejected by Parliament, that's the one she struck with the E.U., and there is a good chance that will happen next Tuesday. She will have
just three days to present a plan B. Here was that moment in Parliament.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ayes to the right, 308. The no's to the left, 297. So, the ayes have it. The ayes have it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Theresa May obviously once again, a big setback. What's happening is this control little by little is being chipped away and taken away from
her. Now parliamentarians are saying you don't have 21 days, you have three days. It took two years to get plan a together.
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Despite their reasoning for this amendment and for pushing it through as trying to accelerate the Brexit
process, because we basically have been in a stasis is in terms of her plan for the last year or so, Parliament is definitely trying to wrestle control
back from the prime minister and the government. They have already, as you mentioned, 24 hours ago, expressed their fierce opposition to no deal. So
that was the point of the amendment to the finance bill which basically means that in the event of a no deal, the government's powers will be
limited in raising funds. And then today we have this amendment, which shortens the time frame the prime minister was expecting to give it a plan
GORANI: It also allows them to amend the plan B deal that Theresa May proposes or comes up with?
NOBILO: Yes, for some months, that's been a contentious point, the meaningful vote, how meaningful it will be. The moment next Tuesday, the
vote will be on May's deal. Do you want to pass it or not now. We know it is unlikely to pass. When it fails, then when she presents her plan b, it
will then be amendable. Now, a lot of this --
GORANI: By MPs.
NOBILO: By MPs. a lot of it is at the discretion of the speaker you just played. Crucially of late, he's been showing his political colors if you
like in being fairly strong in his will to try and circumvent laws in order to get Parliament to stay on Brexit. When they amend the motion, it means
they will be able to express their approval for various options to take Brexit forward. So, once they voted against Theresa May's deal, they'll be
able to express whether or not they approve of an extension of article 50, perhaps a second referendum, and whatever other options they want to vote
on. Now, that's quite dangerous for the government because even though it's not necessarily binding, you can only imagine the political pressure
that would ensue from a majority.
GORANI: But if a majority of MPs said, listen, we need to revoke article 50, we need to figure some other plan out then come back, perhaps and
trigger it again in a year once we've got our ducks in a row, that's a real possibility, right?
NOBILO: Well, as it stands, the default option is Britain leaves on the 29th of March.
GORANI: We know the majority of MPs don't want that, Conservatives and Labour.
NOBILO: That is the case. However, legally it's enshrined in British law that that's happening. So, subject to another agreement by majority of
MPs, that is what will happen. So, it's hard to say whether or not there is a majority of MPs in support of an extension of article 50 or second
referendum. So, the default option, the course for moving forward is the no deal.
GORANI: But we know that the majority of MPs in Parliament don't want a no deal.
NOBILO: But they can't change -- the only way they can actually stop a no deal from happening, if we're to take the prime minister at her word, is to
force a change in government through a confidence vote.
GORANI: OK. So, but I guess -- many of the MPs would say, I'm happy to do that if it means we're not falling off a cliff, right? Is that fair to
NOBILO: It is fair to say that the only thing there is a majority for is avoiding crashing out with no deal. But then you get to this point -- I've
spoken to MPs who are fervently against a no deal Brexit. To ask a conservative MP to vote against their own government in a vote of no
confidence is a massive step, there is a big gulf between wanting to avoid a no deal at all costs and voting your own government down in order to
GORANI: It's tough. By the way, I spoke to Liam Fox, the trade minister, trade secretary. I asked him that very question. When it wasn't being
discussed so much, this plan b idea, I said, do you have a plan B if plan A fails? He answered this. Let's look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIAM FOX, TRADE SECRETARY, UK: We've been focusing on the trade agreements that the European Union has with our country so we can roll them over into
U.K. legislation to make sure we get minimal disruption to trade. That's our part of that process. And there are --
[14:20:00] GORANI: So, there's no plan B, the plan B is crashing out basically?
FOX: If Parliament doesn't accept the prime minister's negotiated settlement, the European Union hasn't offered any other alternative
settlement for the United Kingdom. It will either be to leave without an agreement or as I say, betray the voters but not leaving the European Union
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So, there's no plan B, unless there is one he wasn't telling me about.
NOBILO: Well, that's the question mark. We're never going to know if the government has something up their sleeve. It doesn't look like they do.
He's a Brexiteer. Most say it is an oxymoron. You can't prepare for a deal and have a smooth glide off that cliff on the 29th of march. One
thing I would say is Parliamentary procedure and the way that it works is just being ripped up at the moment. He's a Brexiteer. Most say it is an
oxymoron. You can't prepare for a deal and have a smooth glide off that cliff on the 29th of march. One thing I would say is Parliamentary
procedure and the way that it works is just being ripped up at the moment. Today we saw the speaker in Parliament do something, it has never, ever
done before. We know Brexit is unprecedented. We thought Parliamentary procedure might give us a guide as to how this might shake out. Well, I
have no confidence in that any more. He we really can't predict the way things are going to go.
GORANI: Bianca, thanks very much. We're going to be very busy next week. And called, potentially, although I think it might warm up, I hope.
We're seeing, by the way, Donald Trump I'm being told the U.S. President on Capitol Hill, he's there with Mike Pence, surrounded by Republican leaders.
As we were discussing with our reporters at the top of the hour, he is trying to figure out a way to reassure some of these Republicans elected
officials that the shutdown won't hurt them. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Mitch has been fantastic. Everybody in that room was fantastic. There was no reason for me even to be there, I knew that before we went,
but the Republicans want border security and national security. They want to have a steel barrier or a wall of concrete, they don't care, but I'll
use any term they want. We need a barrier to stop the human traffickers and the drug trade and to stop all of the big problems that come including
gangs. They don't come through your checkpoints. They come through areas where you have hundreds of miles without walls and without barriers or
without strong fences, so the Republican party I can say and I just left an hour meeting, we had a great time, actually. There was no discussion about
anything other than solidarity. We want national security and border security for our country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, Mr. President --
MITCH MCCONNELL, SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: Let me just add before the President leaves, first of all, thanks for coming out. And I think the
President has accurately characterized the discussion. We are all behind the president. And we think this border security is important to the
country. We appreciate your leadership on this.
TRUMP: Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, Mr. President --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why not declare a national emergency?
TRUMP: I may do that at some point if Chuck and Nancy who I'm meeting with in a little while, if they don't agree to the fact that our country is
really got problems with crime, with drugs, with a lot of other things that come through our southern border, so much of it comes through the southern
border, you look at heroin, 90 percent through the southern border, so much, so many problems and if they can't get that through or if they feel
that politically -- I don't know -- I don't care politically. I'm doing what's right for the country, but I'll tell you, it's a very bad political
issue for the Democrats. That I can tell you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President -- Did any Republicans today in that meeting tell you that they want you to pursue a different strategy, that
they want you to reopen the government?
TRUMP: We talked about a couple different strategies. We talked about strategies but there with us all the way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, what about the idea that --
TRUMP: I mean, I just want to tell you that the Republicans are totally unified. If you would ask the same question to the Democrats, you let me
know in some of those districts where I won or that are a little bit more towards sanity, you want them to run, you don't want us to have border
security, you have a lot of Democrats that don't want to be in this battle. The Republicans are unified. We want border security. We want safety for
our country and for 25 years they've been trying to do this. This has been passed. Chuck Schumer's raised his hand so many different times, I could
give you 15 speeches that he made, but I don't think you'll really enjoy them that much. I can give you 15 speeches he talked about border
security, no different than me, border security, that's all he talked about, the only reason they're against it is because I won the presidency
and they think they can try and hurt us going into the presidency but that's not going to happen and we don't give up because we're doing --
we're doing the right thing for our country, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President -- why is it a crisis?
[14:25;00] TRUMP: You know why it's gone down, because of good management, because of me and my people. We've managed it well. But it is brutal. We
have more people coming up. You have caravans. Nobody ever heard of that. It's gone down and we have kept it down because we're managing it well. We
can never do a great job unless we have a wall or a barrier and I mean a real barrier, not a little barrier that doesn't work and if you don't have
that -- it's only down because we do a great job and we work very hard at it and I have incredible people, border patrol people, I.C.E., the military
has helped. I called out the military. We needed help and that's why it's gone down. Thank you, everybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. All right. President Trump there trying to rally support on Capitol Hill for a wall he wants Congress to fund. The
Democrats have said we will not give you money for the wall. Just a few misstatements once again. One of the reporters asked him, why illegal
crossings are down if they are down, why build a wall. He said it was due to his administration. If you look at the data, illegal crossings have
been down year on year for about a decade, mainly due to other types of technology at the border. Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader
there, saying he supports the President's initiative to get funding for the wall. He was also joined by Mike Pence and both men had lunch with Capitol
Hill Republicans today.
All right. We're going to take a quick break on CNN and we'll be right back.
GORANI: The American Secretary of State Mike Pompeo says plans to withdraw American troops from Syria are not at risk, despite push back from Turkish
President Erdogan to the U.S. demand that turkey pledge not to attack Kurdish forces. Pompeo made the comments during an unexpected visit to
Iraq. The secretary is in Egypt now. On the latest leg of his middle east tour, he's in the region trying to reassure U.S. troops and political
leaders that the U.S. is committed to fighting is. Let's get more from our senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman. He's live for us in Cairo.
So, what do we expect from Pompeo in Egypt today?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's actually hasn't landed in Cairo yet, and it's late in the day. So, he's not going
to actually do anything until tomorrow when he will be meeting with the Egyptian President, the Egyptian foreign minister, but most importantly, in
the afternoon he will give what has been described as a keynote address at the American University of Cairo.
[14:30:00] This comes ten years after President Barack Obama made a speech in Cairo in which essentially, he extended an olive branch to the Muslim
world after eight years of George W. Bush's administration which saw wars in Afghanistan, wars in Iraq. And the expectation is that he may sort of
reverse some of that -- the message that President Obama gave at the time, but more than anything, he will beat the drum when it comes to the question
of the perceived extending Iranian influence in the region, something that Secretary Pompeo has long been a hawk on when it comes to Iran. When he
was in Iraq today, both in Baghdad and the Kurdish part of the country, he stressed in addition to the claim that United States will continue to fight
against ISIS. But the United States would also do its best to counter Iran and influence in the region, somewhat problematic in Iraq which is, of
course, a neighbor of Iran.
They do a lot of trade between the two countries. And Iran was one of the principal backers of Iraq, in addition to the United States, in the war
So there may not be so much enthusiasm for this desire, this push from the United States to mount pressure, to bring more pressure on Iran. Hala?
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: All right. Ben, thanks very much. And we'll be getting back to you, of course, tomorrow for more on that
Still to come tonight, the basketball player who is refusing to travel to the U.K. for a game because he fears that Turkish spies could kill him.
I'll be speaking to Enes Kanter, a New York Knicks center and prominent critic of the Turkish government. That is coming up after a break.
GORANI: Well, he's one of the top basketball players for the New York Knicks and he should be showcasing his talent at a game here in London next
week. I say should be, because instead, Enes Kanter is staying in the U.S. Why? Because he says he fears for his life.
He may be a famous athlete, but to many people, he's more than a basketball player. Canter is an outspoken critic of the president of his native
Turkey, Recep Tayyip Erdogan. He heavily criticized President Erdogan after a failed coup in 2016 and even called him, quote, "The Hitler of our
To some people, that makes him an enemy of the Turkish state and he believes Turkish spies could kill him if he came to the United Kingdom.
But the Knicks say he won't travel to the game here in London because of issues with his visa. Let's speak to the man himself Enes Kanter joins me
now from New York. Thanks for being with us.
ENES KANTER, NEW YORK KNICKS PLAYER: Thanks, Hala, good afternoon.
GORANI: Explain to me why you're worried about assassination if you come to the U.K.
KANTER: Well, I mean, first, I would love to go to London, you know? I talk to my teammates and the front office. I told them I want to be with
you guys. And it's just very sad because I'm scared of my life because Erdogan's operation in foreign country.
It's very -- the operations are very famous of hunting down people who are speaking out against the government. And there are, you know, around over
100 people, journalists coming to leaders and teachers that just speak out against the government and they've been getting kidnapped and sent them
back to Turkey. So that's why I was scared of going to London.
[14:35:16] GORANI: But you don't think that it's the government itself that would order a hit or anything. You think potentially some of the
president's supporters could take it upon themselves to do something like that? Is that your fear?
KANTER: Yes, and that, too. Because after I made that comment about London, I have been getting, you know, hundreds and hundreds death threats
almost every day. And then I understand those are death threats, but, you know, it's just -- very scared to get them -- I've been getting them on
But it's just very sad that seeing my people, that Turkish people that threaten me like that. And it just -- I talk to my team about it, you
know, my team said, first, they said, "You can go to London, but you cannot leave your room. You have to be with the security 24/7 and all you can do
is just go to practice. Come back to your room. Go to the game and come back to your room.
GORANI: But why don't you do that? Why don't you just do that?
KANTER: And then later on, we talked to my teammates and the front office, you know, they said the best way, let's not risk it. Let's just stay here.
You can cheer us from New York. Just because -- I just did not want to risk it.
GORANI: Yes. So your team is saying this isn't necessarily about security, though. They're quoted in the New York Times as saying it's a
One of the Erdogan advisors who also happens to be an ex-NBA player.
GORANI: Hidayet Turkoglu had this to say. "Kanter can't enter the U.K. not because of fears for his life as he claims, but due to passport and
visa issues. This being the long-known truth. He is trying to get the limelight with irrational justification and political remarks. Such
remarks constitute another example of the political smear campaign he's been conducting against Turkey."
So, is it the case that it's a visa issue as the Knicks and the Turkish government is contending?
GORANI: First, I would like to show you this and that shows that it's not a visa issue because this is my travel document that shows that I can go
anywhere in the world.
GORANI: OK. So what are you showing us, is that a visa on your Turkish passport?
KANTER: This is a travel document that shows that I can travel anywhere in the world. That I've brought it with me to show you guys.
Well, first of all, with the ex-NBA player Hedo Turkoglu, he works for the Turkish government and he is the chief advisor of the president.
And it's just very sad because we're really good friends back in 2011. Now, I know he did not do such a thing like that. I know the government
made him do things like that. He put a tweet out there and saying it's a visa issue.
And then after that, I talked to Knicks and I tried to explain to him that it's not a visa issue. Yes, I can go to London if I want to. But they
said the best thing is just stay there and then just be safe for now.
GORANI: So after it was reported that the Knicks had said it was a visa issue, you then explained to them that you were, in fact, if you wanted,
you are able to travel abroad, and then they took your -- they understood your point is what you're saying?
KANTER: Well, yes, they did because we sit down and talk to them. I tried to explain it's not a visa issue and then they got it. But sadly, the
Turkish media took that and use it against me and said, oh, Enes is just talking about -- Enes is just lying.
But I can show this document to the whole world that I'm not lying. It's just, you know, just I have the document. I have the travel document that
I can go anywhere in the world.
GORANI: And one of the things that irks the Turkish government is that you meet often with the exiled cleric Fethullah Gulen in Pennsylvania. What is
your -- I mean, how do you respond to that? What is your relationship with Gulen? Because the Erdogan government believes he masterminded a coup
KANTER: First of all, I mean, if you want to understand who did the coup attempt, you have to look at the benefit of the coup attempt. Well, after
the coup attempt, there is -- Turkey is the most -- Turkey is number one country in the world that's putting journalists in the jail, the most
And then, you know, it's just very sad because the Turkish government trying to get Gulen back to Turkey for five years with no evidence. Mr.
Gulen don't even have a parking ticket. And he's just living -- he's like -- he's an 80-year-old sick man who lives in Pennsylvania. He lives a
simple life. So he does not even have a parking ticket in U.S., so there is no way that America will send him back to Turkey.
And then all he's doing is trying to bring universal peace in this world. And I try to go visit him once every two or three weeks. And every time I
go visit him and he says, the most important thing in life is live your differences on the table and try to find out what we have in common.
So that's what I mean it's very sad to see the Turkish government talking about him like that.
[14:40:06] GORANI: So lastly, I'm going to ask you, when will you feel -- will you feel safe enough to travel, whether it's to the U.K. or anywhere
else outside of America?
KANTER: Well, I'm becoming American citizen 2021. First, I would love to say that I appreciate all the New York Knicks fans and our American people
that show me all the support. Because, you know, now I feel like an American because I'm here. I'm going to become an American citizen 2021.
But right now, besides in America, I don't really feel safe anywhere else in the world. Just going to take time until 2021. We just have to, you
know, wait and see.
GORANI: Enes Kanter of the New York Knicks, thanks so much for joining us from our New York bureau. We appreciate it.
KANTER: Thank you, guys. I appreciate it.
GORANI: And I believe that in the coming hours, we'll have a response from a Turkish government representative. Thanks so much for joining us.
KANTER: Thank you. I appreciate it.
GORANI: Now, we want to return to President Trump's first-ever oval office address, but we want to look at it from a different angle rather than
discussing what he said in the speech which is something we'd heard before. There was really no new news made.
We want to focus on the president's performance. He didn't look comfortable. Mr. Trump seemed to squint at the teleprompter quite a bit
and many observers say that he didn't show the same passion and connection with the audience that he does in some of those fiery rallies that are more
like campaign rallies.
Senior media reporter Oliver Darcy joins me now to talk more about this. And, Oliver, I was looking at some of those preliminary ratings that come
out, sort of the big headline numbers.
And, interestingly, it appears as though the Democratic response got more viewers than the Trump Oval Office address.
OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: Yes, those are preliminary ratings and it kind of depends on which network you were on, how high the
ratings were for the Democratic response versus Trump's response.
But I do think you have a point when you say that Trump seemed like he was out of his element, that he was squinting, he didn't seem totally
comfortable in his address. I think he really is someone who likes to go to rallies, he likes to feed off the crowd, the energy from the crowd. He
likes to be a show man and do these lengthy, lengthy performances.
And what you saw yesterday was him behind the resolute desk in the Oval Office reading a script in a teleprompter. And he did at times look like
he was squinting, trying to figure out what the teleprompter said. And it looked he was out of his element. He didn't look totally comfortable.
What's also noteworthy, too, is he may have not even wanted to do it. He apparently, according to the New York Times, told T.V. anchors at a lunch,
a few hours beforehand, that he wasn't inclined to give the speech. That he didn't depth see it was going to sway anyone.
But his advisors had told him, you should deliver the speech because we're in this government shutdown and so they had convinced him, hey, do it and
he obliged. But I think that maybe indicates why he wasn't as comfortable as he is at those rallies and why he seemed out of his element.
GORANI: But anecdotally, I mean, we're here in the U.K. We're outside the United States and on Twitter, I was reading -- and there was this whole
#dontwatchTrump, do something else. And then there are anecdotal tweets of people in public places, with the T.V. station on the address and not
really many people paying attention. I wonder from your perspective, how did it go down, this address?
DARCY: Well, there was a lot of controversy about whether networks should even air this address. And I think that played into it because, usually,
when presidents give Oval Office address in primetime and request time from the networks to air it, it's concerning a national emergency. It's
concerning a tragedy where the president wants to unify the country, things of that nature.
In this case, it was more of a political statement than the president was delivering and then you had a rebuttal from the Democrats, which is --
which is rare obviously. It's usually reserved for a state of the union address.
So, you know, there was a lot of controversy around this. I'm not entirely sure what the president accomplished by delivering this address because he
didn't seem to sway the needle one way or another.
I don't think people came out of the address. Democrats and independents particularly thinking, wow, we need a border wall now. And we need to call
our representatives and demand it.
And I think the Republicans, you know -- or the Democrats, sorry, weren't really swayed by -- no one was really swayed is my point here. The
Republicans weren't like, oh, looking at the Democrats and watching, oh, we should cave.
And so both sides are dug in and that's what we saw last night with President Trump delivering his address and then the Democrats delivering
GORANI: All right. We're kind of back at square one then. With an address and a rebuttal in the middle.
Thanks very much, Oliver Darcy.
Let's return now to our other top story here in London. The prime minister is trying frantically to get lawmakers to back that Brexit deal of hers.
Elsewhere in the country, brits are growing frustrated because of all this gridlock in Cornwall in southwestern England. Many are hoping the U.K.
pulls out of the E.U. one way or another. The region voted in favor of leave.
[14:45:11] In the town of Newquay, the support for Brexit was 62 percent in the referendum. That's despite the region being flushed with E.U. funds.
Phil Black joins me now -- I'm sorry, it's Newquay and Cornwall, Phil. Sorry about that. But it's spelled Newquay. So there you have it.
It's another one of those words that's spelled one way and pronounced another.
So explain to -- you've spoken, I'm sure to residents of Newquay. Why does a region that benefits from being a member of the E.U. vote to leave the
PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It's an interesting question, I think one that baffled a lot of people across the U.K.
immediately after the Brexit referendum.
The people here are famously independently minded. It's long known that the local fishing industry doesn't like the E.U. because of the common
But Cornwall has benefited financially from the E.U. so much, it really came as a surprise. Cornwall is a net beneficiary. They get back a lot
more than they put in. Hundreds of millions of pounds, over many years, has been invested, supplied by the E.U. and then invested in
infrastructure, roads, broadband connections, helping businesses get started, things that have really made a difference to the local economy,
improve people's lives.
And money that Cornwall needed. It qualified for this because it was classified under the E.U. system as one of the most deprived, least
developed areas of the European Union.
So walking around the streets of Newquay today, we still met lots of people who were hard Brexiteers. People who want Brexit. They want it now. They
want it even in a no-deal scenario.
But we also met other people who interestingly say they voted for leave at the referendum, but now say they'd like another go at the question. Take a
listen to what some of the people were saying to us today, Hala.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: E.U.'s dragging us down. It's taken all this money off us. It's the second or third highest payer into everything that's going on
and what do we get out of it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's hard. The sooner we can get out, the better. With the deal or with no deal.
BLACK: The figures show it's apparently, you know, tens of millions of pounds a year that goes into this region from the E.U.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't realize it was that much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that they should back Theresa May and not get themselves into a worse situation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we should do stay in. I think it's too late. The good enough deal is going to take place now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think there should be another referendum. I think there should be a chance for us to really understand what's going on.
There's a lot of promises. A lot of what I call fanfare. No one really knew what we were doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALCK: So the idea there should be another referendum because people are now generally more informed, they know what's at stake, they know what the
consequence of Brexit would be. That's often defined as informed consent.
And you usually hear it from remainers. People who never wanted to leave the European Union, in the first place. But here, in Newquay, we've heard
it from Brexiteers or people who initially voted for Brexit. People who now say they'd like another go at the question.
As I say, there is a grassroots campaign. Cornwall for Europe, which is built and building on the idea, it says, people having changed their mind
since the initial vote. Even the local government, the local council for Cornwall has formally voted in favor of the idea of a second referendum.
It's impossible to get a real sense of just how far the numbers have shifted here. But what people here are now telling us is that there are
many more people who appreciate what Europe has done for Cornwall and they are now also aware that it's very unlikely the British government is going
to provide the same level of financial support, Hala.
GORANI: All right. Phil Black, thanks very much.
Up next on the program, a horrifying, absolutely horrifying story. A woman in a coma for years gives birth and people at the nursing home didn't know
she was pregnant until she gave birth. Now the search is on for the man who got her pregnant. We'll be right back.
[14:50:18] GORANI: Well, now to that disturbing story that happened in the U.S. State of Arizona. Police are trying to figure out how a woman who's
been in a vegetative state for years got pregnant. Obviously, she was assaulted, raped.
And now the families of other people at the medical facility are asking if their loved ones are also in danger. Sarah Sidner has our story.
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A stunning revelation at a health care facility in Phoenix. The San Carlos Apache Tribe said one of
its members, a 29-year-old woman living in a vegetative state for more than a decade was impregnated and had a baby while in the care of Hacienda
Legal analysts and attorney Brian Claypool says there is only one explanation for what happened.
BRIAN CLAYPOOL, ATTORNEY: If the woman in Phoenix was in a vegetative state and she gave birth to a child, then she was raped because she could
not have consented to a sexual relation.
SIDNER: Karina Cesena, whose 22-year-old daughter is also a patient living at the facility, says she and another mother panicked when they heard about
KARINA CESENA, PATIENT'S MOTHER: We were just so scared because who knows what would happen, if it was a staff member, if it was a family member, if
it was a stranger. We have no idea.
SIDNER: Cesena's daughter is unable to walk and barely able to talk after suffering brain damage, leaving her extremely vulnerable.
SIDNER (on camera): What did you decide to do personally to make sure your daughter, who's inside, is safe?
CESENA: Well, I stay here 24/7 now to make sure that she's in a safe environment as well and just move forward because trust has been severely
SIDNER (voice over): As for the company's CEO, Bill Timmons, he resigned earlier this week. And Hacienda Health Care's board sent out a statement
calling what happened an absolutely horrifying situation and an unprecedented case, without giving specifics of the case. CNN witnessed
several police cruisers stationed at the facility during the day and Phoenix Police say they are investigating but have offered no additional
details about the case.
Then, on Tuesday, Hacienda Health Care sent this statement saying police served a search warrant to obtain DNA from male staffers. The company said
it welcomed the development in the investigation.
But Cesena says the health care company didn't even inform the families of other patients at the facility about the incident until about five days
after the birth and only after local news reports exposed the situation.
CESENA: I think that there's an underlying blanket somewhere that they're trying to hide under, you know, instead of being transparent. They're not
being very transparent at all.
GORANI: And that was Sara Sidner reporting.
By the way, Phoenix Police will provide more information on this terrible case later today. A press briefing comes up in just about an hour. We'll
continue to follow that story. We'll be right back.
[14:55:49] GORANI: Well, the awards season continues. Fast on the heels of the Golden Globes nominations for the British Academy Film Awards were
announced today earlier. And Hadas Gold joins me with more on that.
So, best picture, best movie nomination. What have we got this?
HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA AND BUSINESS REPORTER: So the favorite is the favorite. They got 12 nominations. This is the movie about Queen Anne
with Olivia Colman and Emma Stone and Rachel Weisz. And all three of them were nominated. Emma Stone and Rachel Weisz were nominated for supporting
actress. And Olivia Colman won at the Golden Globes. So she is the favorite to win for leading actress.
And just like in the Golden Globes, we saw a lot of British cinema, did really well at the Golden Globes. The BAFTAs this year are going to be
really seen as even more of sort of a preview to the Oscars coming up just two weeks after the BAFTAs, which will be February 10th here in London at
the Royal Albert Hall.
And another thing to keep in mind is actually the streamers. Netflix and Amazon did really well. Netflix got eight awards -- or eight nominations.
They got three last year. Amazon had four.
And so you're seeing more and more that the streaming platforms are starting to really gain even more influence, considering that the BAFTA is
only allowed these streamers to be considered -- up for consideration only in 2016.
GORANI: And they're being nominated for films, for documentaries, Netflix and Amazon?
GOLD: For films. I mean, Amazon has cold war up. Netflix has a lot of movies and films up for consideration in the BAFTAs. And for them, that's
very important for the talent. To go to an Olivia Colman and say, hey, come do a Netflix movie with us next year and look at all these awards
we've been nominated that we won for.
"Roma" is considered one that's probably going to get at least a few awards. It's really considered, especially for Academy Awards, a best
But unfortunately for the 6th year in a row, we have not seen a female director nominated at the BAFTA.
GORANI: And "Roma," have you seen "Roma"?
GOLD: I have not.
GORANI: Yes. I didn't get into it right away. So, of course, in this age of DHD, I kind of tuned into something else.
But interestingly, CNN has two nominations for documentary.
GOLD: We do. We have two nominations of documentaries. One for the Ruth Bader Ginsburg documentary and another for the "Three identical Strangers."
So maybe we'll see a CNN BAFTA grace our shelves sometime soon.
GORANI: Let's hope so. Olivia Colman, I'm a big fan. You haven't seen "The Favourite" and I haven't either. But it's definitely one that's on my
list. I love Olivia Colman. She's such a great actress because she's funny. She's subtle. Her interpretation is nuanced.
I don't know if you ever saw BBC series called "Fleabag."
GOLD: Oh, yes.
GORANI: Did you?
GOLD: Yes. And I mean, she is really incredible. And it's wonderful to see an actress like her get all this recognition now. And the film has
just gotten such rave reviews that I'm sure it's going to do well.
GORANI: Yes, absolutely. And for many reasons, I like the fact that she's seasoned, that, you know, she's British, she's international. She's played
in such a wide array of films and T.V. series.
So thanks very much, Hadas. We will be keeping an eye on that.
Thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. Stay with us. "QUEST FOR BUSINESS" is up next.