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Trump Closer To Declaring Emergency To Pay For His Wall; First U.S. Military Withdrawal From Syria Has Begun; Why The National Enquirer Says It Decided To Investigate Bezos; Comics Target Trump's Take on Shutdown; Federal Workers Won't Get Paychecks as Shutdown Continues. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired January 11, 2019 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: She represents Texas's 16th Congressional district which includes El Paso. You can see right there on the Mexico border.

Thank you so much for being with us. Congratulations on your first few weeks in office. The President visited border, your district absolutely includes the border. What did you make of his visit?

REP. VERONICA ESCOBAR (D), TEXAS: It was just as I had suspected. I thought he would parachute in, take a look at only what he wanted to look at, talk only to people he wanted to talk to, folks who would agree with him.

I wish that he and other leaders would take a more comprehensive look at the border, the realities of the border, the true needs that we have. In El Paso, for example, we already have a wall.

And Felipe, the 8-year-old boy who died in U.S. custody last month, he was apprehended, he and his father where there already is a wall. We know that walls don't work, that they don't stop drugs, that they don't stop migration. We are calling for smarter responses and for true leadership during this very difficult time.

BERMAN: So as you said, El Paso has a wall. You say it doesn't work. Would you ever call for the removal of the wall there?

ESCOBAR: It's really ugly. It is I think a monument to division. We've always had fencing along the U.S./Mexico boarder, it's existed -- I'm a lifelong resident and always was there. But the bigger and taller and uglier that they get, they really just become symbols. Personnel, technology, there are better ways to make sure that we live in secure areas.

BERMAN: Well, fencing is something now the President he says steel slats, but if Republicans came to the table and said fencing, not walls, would you support that?

ESCOBAR: Here's the thing. I think we have to remember why the government is shutdown today. It really is not because of a wall. The reason that there's a government shutdown today and I feel like we're taking our focus off of this, is because the President is afraid of Fox News. There was a deal to reopen the government. There was -- there were bills that were passed by the Republican-controlled Senate. The Democratic House in a bipartisan manner passed those very same bills. But the President decided he was not going to allow the government to be reopened once he was criticized by Fox News.

If we give in, if we capitulate on this, then that's sending a signal to the President that any time he wants to dig in appeals about absolutely anything. All he has to do is try to shutdown the government. So, this is in many ways much bigger than the conversation about a wall. This is about how we govern. And we can't govern in this way.

BERMAN: Do you feel that Democrats are doing enough to help the 800,000 people not receiving paychecks today?

ESCOBAR: We, in the House, we have been passing bills to reopen the government. We did it on day one. Many of us, myself included, incoming new members there were things we would have loved to have seen in those continuing resolutions to reopen the government. Priorities, financial priorities for our districts.

But we compromised. We said we're going to stand down. We're going to support what the Republicans and the Senate gave us. And we did that. We have compromised.

Frankly, the senators, the very same senators who supported what we passed in the House, the onus is on them. The President already took ownership saying that this would be his shutdown. That's where we need to look. This -- all of this diversion is really frustrating. Again, it's about Fox News and it's about enablers in Congress.

BERMAN: Well, you say it's about Fox News. I happen to think the President is stuck on the wall, that the wall is the basis of it and maybe Fox and there are conservative supporters the President who are demanding the wall.

But the wall is central here. And while the Senate and maybe people in the White House had agreed at one point to this compromise of $1.3 billion in funding that did not include any funding for the wall.

And there are supporters of the President. There are people who have worked along the border who do say that some kind of a barrier in some places would be useful, including, including the man who was in charge of border security for President Obama. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MORGAN, FORMER OBAMA BORDER PATROL CHIEF: The President is talking to the leadership of CPB in the border patrol and rank and file and those are the experts. And they're saying the wall works. It doesn't work everywhere, it's not the end all to be all, but it works.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: But you say it's a nonstarter anywhere?

ESCOBAR: It is. Let me give you an example, again, why it does not work and why it's really taking our focus off of what's important.

Yesterday, the President when he was in McAllen had a photo op. And in front of him had he guns and contraband showing that guns and drugs are coming through our borders. All of that came through our ports of entry.

This fascination that not just Donald Trump, you're absolutely right, I mean, Democrats before him have had the same fascination.

[07:35:05] During the Bush administration then Senator Obama, then Senator Clinton voted in favor of the wall. Communities like mine. We sued the Federal government to prevent it because we knew there were smarter ways to keep our communities and our country safe. So you're right, both sides have played a role in this.

BERMAN: Let me --

ESCOBAR: But we have a wall already.

BERMAN: -- in some places.

Let me ask you one question. People need to smile today and every day. Your predecessor in your congressional seat, Beto O'Rourke who may or may not run for president, posted a picture of himself yesterday going to the dentist inside the dentist chair. I don't know whether it's something about your district that leads to oversharing. Do you support this kind of sharing among potential presidential candidates?

ESCOBAR: I leave it to each candidate to decide for him or herself. That's not my style, per se, but Beto's a great guy and he's always pushing the envelope on social media.

BERMAN: Do you like seeing his teeth?

ESCOBAR: I'll pass.

BERMAN: Representative Venorica Escobar, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate talking to all the new members of Congress and your first weeks on the job. Come back.

ESCOBAR: I will.

BERMAN: Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We have breaking news right now because the first stage of the U.S. withdrawal from Syria ordered by President Trump is now apparently underway and the administration official tells CNN that some U.S. military ground equipment has already been moved out of the country.

CNN's Clarissa Ward is live in Northern Syria with more. What are you learning, Clarissa? CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right,

Alisyn, good morning. Well, we're hearing also reports on the ground from Kurdish sources here that they have seen convoys of U.S. military equipment moving around Northern Syria, as you mentioned, according to the U.S. military, this is ground equipment. This is military hardware.

No word yet on U.S. troop movements. And we probably won't expect to hear any because of very real security concerns for U.S. military personnel. But, of course, this is going to be a big job, Alisyn. There's a lot of stuff to move, even though it's not a huge troop presence here on the ground, just over 2,000 troops, there are seven significantly-sized bases, many more smaller bases.

We're here in the town of Kubani, the nearest U.S. base just over 20 miles away. We haven't heard any reports of activity from there. But we are talking to Kurdish people on the ground here who are very concerned, Alisyn, about this U.S. troop withdrawal.

Our viewers may remember this was a town where many, many people were killed in the fight against ISIS, almost everyone here has lost someone in their familiar diplomatic and no family. And now they have a very real fear that when the U.S. withdrawals momentarily that they will be left to loathe of their neighbors in Turkey to a potential resurgence of ISIS. A lot of concerns, Alisyn, about that withdrawal.

CAMEROTA: Of course, understood, Clarissa, thank you very much for going there and reporting for us.

CAMEROTA: Well, the President has gone after Amazon founder Jeff Bezos on more than one occasion. He owns the Washington Post after all. Now, Bezos is getting a divorce. And a tabloid that used to be a presidential favorite, maybe still is got the exclusive. So, we discuss all of that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:42:01] BERMAN: So there are dozens of national emergencies in effect right now, so why would the President's potential declaration of a border emergency be different? John Avlon joins us with the reality check. Sir.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Guys, what we've got here is history making incompetents. A self-inflicted shutdown officially tied for the longest in American history that will almost certainly take the record tomorrow.

Now President Trump's boxed in it, it looks like he'll use a declaration of national emergency as an off-ramp. Is this really an emergency?

Well, Jimmy Carter first tried out these revise powers during the Iranian hostage crisis back in 1979. He was awoken before dawn one day to warn that Iran was about to yank all of its assets out of America. The President immediately signed an emergency declaration freezing those assets. Need to be done right then and only he can could do it. But the concept of national emergency declaration has been degraded since then.

So might be surprised to learn for example that we're all living under 31 states of emergency, in fact, America has been under an endless state of emergency for at least the past 40 years. And here they all are.

There's as big as 9/11 and as small as sanctions on Burundi, it makes a good case for sunset clauses. Now President Trump has already declared three state of emergencies, slapping sanctions on human rights violators and the abuse of government of Nicaragua, and, yes, he's even declared a state of emergency, "In the event that foreign governments interfere in our elections," although he took flak for its understandably weak wording (ph).

Which begs the question, if he used our emergency powers against Nicaragua, why didn't he address the border before? That's because this isn't an emergency in any objective sense. This is explicitly an end run around Congress to fulfill a campaign promise that could have been addressed when the President and his party had unified control of government until ten days ago.

So, but what can he actually do? Well, it turns out National Emergencies Act of 1976 was designed to rein in the executive, which is not so proud history of overreach like FDR's creation of Japanese internment camps during World War II.

And during the McCarthy era, Congress actually tried to expand this authority, allowing the President to detain, "Subversive people," presumably communists as well. Good old Harry Truman vetoed this expansion of his own powers calling the mockery of the bill of rights, imagine that.

After Watergate it occurred to some folks in Congress that may be the executive could use some reining in. But the President still had wide emergency powers include ignoring all laws regulating chemical and biological weapons, pressing retired members of the military back into service, and, yes, "Undertaking military construction projects not otherwise authorized by law".

In other words, President Trump could theoretically divert any money previously earmarked for a military construction project for his wall. And if he does, here come the courts (ph).

Alternately Republicans may be left to explain why disaster funds are being taken from storm ravaged communities for something not urgent that most Americans don't want. Either way, it's clear as Mitch McConnell once complain while accusing President Obama of executive overreach.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), KENTUCKY, MAJORITY LEADER: This is not how democracy is supposed to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: And that's your reality check.

[07:45:05] CAMEROTA: It so helpful, John, to get all that context. I mean, we didn't know that there were 31 national emergencies until you.

AVLON: We've basically been living in a latch (ph) -- emergency our entire lifetimes, folks.

CAMEROTA: That explains a few things.

AVLON: Explains a lot.

CAMEROTA: Yes, thank you very much. All right, he is the richest man in the world.

BERMAN: You're not talking about me.

CAMEROTA: I'm not. On either of these counts because he's getting a divorce and you're the happiest married man in the world. And the "National Enquirer" is not trailing you as far as I know. But they are crowing about how they got Jeff Bezos. Why were they targeting him? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Hours after Amazon's CEO, Jeff Bezos, announced his imminent divorce the National Enquirer published their bombshell story complete with photos detailing the Amazon founder's alleged relationship with a former TV anchor. But many questions are still swirling about the tabloid's motives.

[07:50:03] Joining us now is CNN Chief Media corresponded and anchor of "Reliable Sources", Brian Stelter. So Brian, The National Enquirer trailed him for four months, they say.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN Chief Media Correspondent: Yes, yes.

CAMEROTA: They brag about it. They trailed him for 40,000 miles. They brag about in order to break up his marriage and reveal what they say was an affair. Were they targeting him because he's an adversary of Donald Trump?

STELTER: Well, I think it's wise to be skeptical of the Enquirer's motives here. Because we know the Enquirer and Trump have been working together for years. We know this is a relationship that predates the presidential campaign. We know it continued with President Trump in office. But we also know the relationship broke down last spring.

And so I'm actually pretty skeptical of suggestions that have been pretty widespread in the last couple of days that the Enquirer did it to target someone on Trump's enemies list. Certainly the Enquirer was doing that up until last spring. But everything changed last April when the FBI came knocking on Michael Cohen's door and subpoenaed the National Enquirer's parent company. That's when the Enquirer seemed to flip on Trump.

So my sense from staffers inside the magazine is that they're not trying do Trump's bidding anymore. They are not cozy with Trump anymore. In fact, they don't put him on the cover anymore, they don't promote his presidency anymore.

This seems to be a case of the Enquirer targeting a billionaire celebrity and trying to expose a big story. But, again, there's always a curiosity about Trump here because of the history between Enquirer and the President.

CAMEROTA: I find what they say hard to believe. Because the President --

STELTER: They're a tabloid magazine, I get it.

CAMEROTA: Yes, well, I mean not just because they're tabloid magazine, but because they did Donald Trump's bidding for so long. And if they're the morality police and they just want to go after billionaires who are having affairs, well, they sure took kid gloves with Donald Trump. But they seem to enjoy going after people who are on his adversaries list.

I mean, Donald Trump has gone after Jeff Bezos. Here's just one --

STELTER: Many times.

CAMEROTA: -- of the tweet. Washington Post employees want to go out on strike because Bezos isn't paying them enough. I think a really a long strike would be a great idea. Employees who get more money. We would get rid of fake news for an extended period of time. Is the Washington Post a registered lobbyist? That's just one treat --

STELTER: Right.

CAMEROTA: -- of his tweet. Always goes after Bezos because of the Washington Post connection as we know. President Trump doesn't like some of the coverage of him.

STELTER: And he seemed to enjoy hearing about this divorce, these headlines. Trump comments yesterday that it's going to be a beauty. And he tends to comment on people's divorces. Their legal lives because he's interested in seeing how the money is going to be split up. And that's going to be a huge story here. By the way, I mean, Bezos is worth $137 billion. The expectation is that Mackenzie who -- this divorce is happening, his ex-wife Mackenzie, will get a chunk of that.

CAMEROTA: Why a chunk of that?

STELTER: That's actually going to have a big impact for Amazon. By the way, Bezos probably won't be the richest person in the world at the end of this. CAMEROTA: I mean this is sad (ph). But why wouldn't she get half? And I don't say that about every divorce.

STELTER: She's very well met.

CAMEROTA: But she -- they've been married for 25 years. She is the person who encouraged him, he says.

STELTER: Right.

CAMEROTA: He gives her credit that he came up with this Harebrained Scheme. I'm going to mail books around the country. And she said, let's try it. Let's do it. I mean it sounds like --

STELTER: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- she's instrumental in creating that.

STELTER: She was even the bookkeeper in the early years according to Brad Stone, Book about Amazon. It is likely that's how it's going to end up going.

Look, I think actually what this tells us is that technology executives, billionaires in Silicon Valley, they are some of the new celebrities of our age. And they are going to be targets and subjects of the gossip columns. That's been true for a while already. But this is a big example of that happening. The Enquirer says this is the biggest investigation in the tabloid's history. And you've got give them credit. They do break big stories sometimes. John Edwards comes to mind from last decade.

CAMERTOA: I'm sorry.

STELTER: Are they picky about their targets? Are they selecting about their subjects?

CAMERTOA: Yes, they like Democrats. They like Democratic candidates and not Donald Trump.

STELTER: There is definitely something to that. I'm not denying that.

CAMEROTA: And by the way, I chortled audibly when they called themselves, they were trying to pretend that they were investigative reporters. No. I don't think that they get the credit for that. If they bury stories and pay off the alleged mistresses of Donald Trump and they go after Democrats that Donald Trump doesn't like, I don't think they can call themselves investigator reporters.

Here's their statement. The National Enquirer has been doggedly investigating this story for four months and the extraordinary details and evidence uncovered by our team, and presented to Mr. Jeff Bezos' representatives for comment early this week, underscores the kind of investigative reporting that the publication has long been know for." No. The morality hit squad. STELTER: Catch and kill is the opposite of investigative reporter. That's what the magazine was doing with Trump. They were catching bad stories about Trump. They were killing those stories, burying those stories. I do think there is embarrassment -- maybe not at the top of the Enquirer but in the staff of the Enquirer about what went down with Trump. And with the fact there's been a nonprosecution agreement to ensure immunity. I mean --

CAMEROTA: I hope so.

STELTER: This is very embarrassing for the magazine.

CAMEROTA: That's not journalism.

STELTER: And that is something maybe they're trying to move past. It's interesting in this case with Bezos. But what they're really say between the lines is Bezos only announced this divorce because we caught him. That's what they're implying --

CAMEROTA: I know.

STELTER: -- in the statement which is interesting.

[07:55:05] CAMEROTA: I know that. And they're gloating about it. But again, I think that the idea that there's this morality hit squad traveling around is really chilling. And that they pick and choose their targets based on, it appears, who Donald Trump didn't like.

STELTER: I think what you're also saying is that Trump and Bezos now have something in common if Bezos is going through a divorce.

CAMEROTA: Sure. That's true. And so President Trump is gloating about it. Also seems curious.

STELTER: A little bit.

CAMEROTA: All right. Brian Stelter, thank you very much.

Hi, John.

BERMAN: Do you chortle or guffaw when you heard them say they're investigative reporters?

CAMEROTA: I think chortled through my nose.

BERMAN: Chortled, a snortle.

CAMEROTA: A snortle.

BERMAN: All right, (INAUDIBLE) chance do more, but right now, the comics kept -- taking on President Trump as the government shutdown continues. Here are your late night laughs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY FALLON, "THE TONIGHT SHOW" HOST: Today, President Trump flew to Texas and visited the southern border. But before leaving for his Texas, Trump spoke to reporters about the shutdown and said Democrats have been taken over by young crazy people. Yes. Because when I see this picture I think what a bunch of young, crazy people.

STEPHEN COLBERT, "THE LATE SHOW" HOST: Trump is sure declaring an emergency would be legal.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a thing that the lawyers tell me is 100 percent.

COLBERT: Mr. President, if you want to know what is or is not legal. I don't know if I would ask your lawyers.

TRUMP: If we go back and everything is peachy-dory and you say we'll talk.

JIMMY KIMMEL, "JIMMY KIMMEL" LIVE HOST: Wait a minute, peachy-dory? That's like hunky-keen. Peachy-dory, of course, is the new move from Pixar. It comes out later this year.

JAMES CORDEN, "THE LATE, LATE NIGHT SHOW" HOST: Yes, Donald Trump met with Democrats. They negotiate in terms to end the shutdown but reportedly stormed out of the meeting, slamming his hands on the table and saying, "bye-bye." Now here's the thing with bye-bye. There's no real intimidating way to say bye-bye. Good-bye is fine. Good-bye. It's fine. You can never quite go, do you know what? Screw you. Bye-bye.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I think he had it both ways there. He said it both ways. The bye-bye thing.

CAMEROTA: He did but I like his larger point.

BERMAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Bye-bye is not the statement you want to leave on.

BERMAN: We missed that yesterday.

All right. No paychecks and a possible national emergency. We have new developments in the shutdown now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I have the absolute right to declare a national emergency.

REP. NANCY PELOSI, SPEAKER OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: I think he's going to have to answer to his own party on usurping that much power.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These communities along the border is some of the safest in the country.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I have never been more depressed. Somebody's going to get some energy to fix this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The latest of safety are being reduced into our airspace system with no reason whatsoever.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Savings is gone. We don't want an apology. We just want our jobs back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've never had a top person like this testify in public.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Democrats are going to treat him like he's St. Francis of Assisi. The Republicans are going to after this guy as the criminal that he is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to know as much as he can possibly tell.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

CAMEROTA: Good morning. Welcome to your "New Day." It is Friday, January 11th, 8:00 in the East. So, the government shutdown has now drag on for 21 days, tying the longest in American history. And barring an unlikely break through today, it will break that record tomorrow.

The harsh reality is affecting 800,000 federal workers as they will not get a paycheck today. This is a pay stub from an air traffic controller who is working without pay. He's receiving, as you can see, zero dollars this week. So after that breakdown in talks with congressional leaders, President Trump is reportedly moving closer to declaring a national emergency to bypass Congress and use unspent federal funds from hurricane disasters, natural disasters to build his border wall.

BERMAN: Build the border wall. He once said that Mexico would pay for. As Alisyn said, the administration said to be looking at diverting billions of dollars in disaster relief to make this happen. That means that money meant for places devastated by hurricanes including Puerto Rico could be used for the wall. So, who's going to pay for it?

CAMEROTA: Hurricane victims.

BERMAN: There you go. Also, clear your calendars for February 7th, that's when Michael Cohen, President Trump's former lawyer, now a convicted felon will testify in public before Congress and cameras. The President claims he's not worried. Really?

CAMEROTA: All right. Joining us now, we have White House correspondent for the "New York Times" Maggie Haberman, so much to talk about.

Maggie, great to have you there from Washington. So, the shutdown. And you had told us earlier in the week, maybe even yesterday that you thought it was likely that the President would declare a national emergency. Is that moving closer to reality?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK TIMES: I would say its inching closer to reality, right.