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CNN Obtained FBI Transcripts That Shed Light On Internal Deliberations; FBI Agents, Air Traffic Controllers, Coast Guard Folks All Of Them Working Without Pay And Yet He Says He Cares About National Security; People In President Trump's Own Administration Don't Know What He Discussed With Vladimir Putin; Interview With Sen. Chris Coons. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired January 14, 2019 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

UNKOWN MALE: And some of the rational about why this investigation started and why so many Americans have been concerned for so long.

TRUMP: It's the most insulting thing I have ever been asked. And if you read the article, you'd see that they found absolutely nothing.

UNKOWN MALE: It looks like a witch hunt if they don't put facts on the table.

UNKOWN MALE: This man who was former KGB agent, why is this President Trump's best buddy?

UNKOWN MALE: Open up the government. See if we can get a deal. If we can't at the end of three weeks, all bets are off.

UNKOWN MALE: FBI agents, air traffic controllers, coast guard folks all of them working without pay. And yet he says he cares about national security.

UNKOWN FEMALE: There are other ways to negotiate without holding people's paycheck hostage.

UNKOWN MALE: This is New Day with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, ANCHOR: And good morning, everyone. Welcome to your New Day. Happy Monday.

We start with breaking news for you, because CNN has obtained FBI transcripts that shed light on the internal deliberations that help explain why the FBI opened that investigation in to whether President Trump was acting as a agent of Russia. Transcripts of two FBI officials closed door interviews with congressional investigators.

And these transcripts reveal that they were looking in to whether President Trump then Donald Trump was quote, acting at the behest of and somehow following directions, somehow executing Russia's will. OK, this comes admit a weekend of explosive headlines. The New York Times revealed that FBI investigational and The Washington Post reports the president went to extraordinary lengths to hide the details of his meetings with Vladimir Putin even from officials within his own administration.

The paper reports the president of the United States took his interpreter's notes after the meeting with Putin and wouldn't let other people see them.

Needless to say, the president clearly is not happy with the coverage. He went a Twitter tear and even called in to Fox News dodging the question of whether he has worked for Russia. Instead saying it is the most insulting thing he has ever been asked.

JOHN BERMAN, CO-ANCHOR: But he did not say no. In the meantime, we are now in day 24 of the U.S. government shutdown, now the longest in U.S. history. A new CNN poll finds that most Americans blame the president for all of this.

And a majority apposes a border wall, even though sum 800,000 federal workers did not collect paychecks on Friday. President Trump's economic advisor (inaudible) shutdown to a vacation, saying for low workers are better off.

There may be more signs this morning. The republicans are concerned that the standoff over this border wall is hurting their party politically. We'll get to that. Wording me in though is CNN crime and justice reporter Shimon Prokupecz live in Washington with the breaking news about these transcripts obtained by CNN -- Shimon.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, that's right John. So, these transcripts really give us a window, a look inside the process by which the FBI underwent the thinking that they certainly in to how to go about whether or not they were going to bring this investigation, open this investigation in to Donald Trump.

Now, this new information obtained by CNN from transcripts of two FBI officials who testified to two members of congress, it was a closed door interviews. And what it reveals that on one end, there was the idea that Trump fired the former FBI director James Comey at the behest of Russia.

And then on the other was the possibility that Trump was completely innocent and was acting within the bounds of his executive authority. Now, James Baker who was the then top FBI lawyer at the time, he described his thinking and the FBI's thinking in terms of Russia.

Saying quote, "that was one extreme. The other extreme was the president is completely innocent. And we discussed that too," he said. "There's a range of things this could possibly be." He told members of congress.

"And we needed to investigate because we don't now whether, you know, the worst-case scenario is possibly true or the president is totally innocent and we need to get this thing over with -- and so he can move forward with his agenda." This is what James Baker told members of congress. And then in another interview from another FBI lawyer, Lisa Page who you will recall came under fire for her texts with former head of the investigation Peter Strzok. Now, she told members that the FBI had considered investigating Trump for some time.

Saying quote, "it's not that it could not have been done. This case had been a topic of discussion for some time. The 'waiting on' was an indecision and a cautiousness on the part of the bureau with respect to what to do and whether there was sufficient predication to open," she said.

And that means open the investigation. And as we now know, that investigation was open. And all that now is essentially living. It's all under investigation by the Special Counsel.

CAMEROTA: Well, thank you very much for explaining this new CNN reporting and the transcripts. Let's bring in CNN political analyst David Gregory, former FBI special agent Asha Rangappa and former Clinton White House press secretary Joe Lockhart.

[07:05:00]

Asha, I want to start with you because of your FBI investigative hat you wear.

It is fascinating to read these transcripts that CNN has gotten their hands on just so that you hear the FBI thinking. There were two many strange and suspicious things that had piled up that -- and it sounds like from the transcripts, they couldn't do anything but open an investigation in to what was happening with then candidate Donald Trump.

ASHA RANGAPPA, FMR. FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Right. This is the problem when you are worried about a counter intelligence threat coming from the president of the United States. As those transcripts revealed, it could be that this person is acting at the behest of a foreign power.

On the other hand, the things that are -- that the president is doing is within the realm of his article to authorities.

Now we have to remember that by this point as you mentioned, there was a wealth of evidence that was looking very suspicious from the call from Michael Flynn to Russia on sanctions and Trump calling for Russia to hack Hilary Clinton's e-mails.

All of that stuff is building up. And then he fires James Comey and says on national television that he did it for Russia. So, I think that you're absolutely right, Alisyn. They had to look in to it and resolve this question.

Is he just acting on his own, perhaps making some bad judgments but that's what he is entitled to do. Or is he acting at the direction of another country and putting the interest of this country over those of the United States. BERMAN: If I can, let me add in the other major reporting from this weekend so we can talk about this in the biggest of picture sense here. The Washington Post reported over the weekend that the information coming from the president's private meeting with Vladimir Putin is very scant.

People within his own administration can't get it because he's hiding it from them. Let me read you this paragraph. Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with the Russia President Vladimir Putin including on at least one occasion, taking possession of the notes if his own interpreter.

And instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former officials said. He took the notes of his interpreter, David Gregory, because he didn't want people to know what had gone on in that meeting. Given that he knew at the time, he knows now and he knew then.

But there is so many questions about whether he was colluding with Russia. Now, we know there is a counter intelligence investigation about whether he was acting as an agent of Russia. Why doesn't the president want people to know what's going on in these meetings with Vladimir Putin? Is he hiding something?

DAVID GREGORY, POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, well he certainly looks like he's hiding something. You're under suspicion and so you engage in really suspicious behavior, on the very topic that you're under suspicion for. I mean it's just -- it is shocking.

That detail alone with a series of shocking details kind of tops it all. You go back to this sequence from a candidate who was open for business with the Russians, if they have (inaudible) research on Hilary Clinton, who hires Paul Manafort who's got this deep relationship with the Russians and the Ukrainians.

Now in prison for that, calls for Hilary Clinton's e-mails to be hacked, and then gets in to office and these ties with Michel Flynn and then scooping up these transcripts. What is he hiding about his relationship? I sit just stubbornness that he thinks that the investigation is tired.

I mean this is one of these moments with respect to Joe being there. Let's just take a moment shall we and imagine Hilary Clinton were president under these circumstances. She is -- I mean, Donald Trump called for her to be in jail over mishandling her server.

Let alone potentially coordinating with a foreign power, an enemy of the United States. So, it is shocking and the fact that this could all come together under Mueller is what everybody is waiting for.

CAMEROTA: No, it's unthinkable, David. It's unthinkable to imagine what would be happening if this were Hilary Clinton or Barack Obama. Joe, of all of these suspicious things that have piled up over the past two years, this reporting in The Washington Post and New York Times has picked up on it is beyond head scratching. I mean this is really a short of jaw dropping moment. People in President Trump's own administration don't know what he discussed with Vladimir Putin. Here is another paragraph, this one from the New York Times this weekend.

Several administration officials asked the interpreter -- there was one interpreter that the president had in there, what had been discussed. But the interpreter told them the president had taken the notes after the meeting and had instructed the translator not to discuss the meeting.

That it's unprecedented. He's discussing things with Vladimir Putin that he doesn't want other people in his administration and certainly not the American people to know anything about.

JOE LOCKHART, FMR. CLINTON W.H. PRESS SECRETARY: Yes. And it certainly raises all of the questions that I think David and Asha both raised. I can already hear the republicans today, the ones who aren't in hiding arguing that oh, this is just rogue FBI agents.

Americans should hope that one of the theories when you start an investigation is someone's innocent.

[07:10:00]

You don't go in n investigation knowing--

CAMEROTA: And the transcript proves that that's what they said. That that was part of the--

LOCKHART: Exactly. So--

CAMEROTA: Maybe he's innocent, maybe he doesn't know.

LOCKHART: -- if anything, I think -- and I think Asha rightly points that this may come down to a question ultimately of did the president act as a foreign agent or is he just a rube? Is he -- was he just naively gullible doing. But the problem is that will all get sorted out. He has been a certain sense doing Russia's work from the beginning.

Look at the redirect he uses, it comes straight from Vladimir Putin, the Afghanistan story, the (inaudible) story. He fought the sanctions tooth and nail, a unanimous vote. I mean, I think it was 96 to three. He has been -- he has at every point in his presidency when it's a choice of supporting authorities and democracy, he's gone against the democracy--

CAMEROTA: Look at Helsinki, look at what he said--

LOCKHART: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- publically--

LOCKHART: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- in Helsinki. That's just the public part that we know about.

LOCKHART: And when it comes -- when comes not just with Russia, OK with other places in the world. When it comes to trusting a foreign authoritarian leader or his own staff and intelligence community, he's gone with the authoritarian.

So, the damage is done. What we have to sort through now is how bad -- how bad is it for Trump personally.

BERMAN: And also I think what happens next with this and Asha, take off your intelligence hat and put on your legal hat here. Democrats now control the house. Adam Schiff and others no doubt will want to get a hold of these interpreter's notes or maybe get to the interpreter.

There is some legal shadowing or fuzzy ground about whether or not an interpreter or a translator can testify before congress here. How hard will it be to hear from these people?

RANGAPPA: Well, I think that the White House will definitely raise a challenge. And I -- frankly, I think rightly so because of some of the principals involved, not that there can't be exceptions to it.

The president when he is talking with another head of state in engaging in one of his core article two duties which is to represent the United States, engage in negotiations and diplomatic conversations. And that's a separation of power issue.

You don't want congress to be able to come in and intrude on that function. I mean, so just switch parties, out whatever candidate you want in the presidency and think about it that way. On the other hand, if there is a legitimate national security concern behind those conversations, then you would want them to be able to look in to it.

And I think again we're just getting in to this authority issue when the threat that you are looking at is the person sitting in the oval office. You start to see an intersection of constitutional duties and legitimate criminal and national security concerns both coming together at the same time.

CAMEROTA: You know, David--

GREGORY: Right--

CAMEROTA: Let me just tell you this and then--

GREGORY: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- you can make your point, which is that the republican talking point that you're starting to hear today and we started to hear over the weekend about these transcripts and about what it reveals about the FBI opening this investigation in to then Donald Trump is (inaudible) they say.

See, the FBI had it out for Donald Trump. They opened it before he fired James Comey. Well, yes they did because of these suspicious things that were already lining up. The fact that his sons had said publically we get most of our money from Russia. They were--

GREGORY: Right.

CAMEROTA: -- quoted for years as saying the fact that George Papadopoulos was running his mouth drunkenly at a bar to a diplomat saying that he knew that Russia had dirt on Hilary Clinton and was offering it up. Of course they opened it before he fired Comey.

GREGORY: Right, but I think it accelerated after he fired Comey. Look, I bring up another point which is that Page and Strzok who were involved in this investigation expressed clear animus towards the president. That hurts the FBI without a doubt.

I don't think that that settles in that and I don't think that because of them, the FBI cannot be trusted which is the Trump argument. The investigation piece will continue to play out.

I think Joe raises another really important point, and that's incompetence and hubris of this team as a -- as an election team as a campaign and then once in office, and how they're dealing with Russia. Look, the Bush administration misread Vladimir Putin from the very start.

Russia was helpful on -- in some ways with Iran and then invaded (inaudible). And then there was a rest under Obama that wasn't successful. But you have to worry about sheer incompetence when it comes to dealing with issues directly with Russia or Russia's fear of influence given what we know about this relationship.

BERMAN: Joe, we're out of time here. But very quickly, do you think the president would rather be talking about the wall in trying to (inaudible) support among his base in the midst of this shutdown than the various Russia matters ahead?

LOCKHART: I think that's one of the big political reasons why we have the shutdown on the wall.

[07:15:00]

LOCKHART: But the CNN polling over the weekend quickly shows that for the first time, non-college educated white voters are 47 to 45 now don't approve of the prsident's job. The base is beginning to crack.

CAMEROTA: Joe, Asha, David, thank you all very much. Meanwhile, the Wall Street Journal reports that the White House asked for the Pentagon for a plan to launch military operation against Iran last year.

This request followed an attack on the U.S. embassy in Baghdad. So, CNN's Clarissa Ward is live in Northern Syria with more on this. What have you learned, Clarissa?

CLARISSA WARD, CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is interesting Alisyn, because those three mortars that managed to hit the diplomatic area in Baghdad that houses the U.S. embassy formally known as the Green Zone. They didn't actually generate much media attention because no one was injured in that attack.

But clearly according to the Wall Street Journal, they did generate some very interesting conversations inside the White House looking at or asking the Pentagon to look at the possibility of strikes on Iran, whether it could be done and how could it be done.

Essentially I think Alisyn, what this tells us is what we really already know, which is that this White House is really seeking to take a much more antagonistic and confrontational approach to Iran. You can see that with the dismantling of the Iran deal. And of course you can see it with the appointment of national security advisor John Bolton.

Bolton has been very open about the fact that he desires regime change in Iran. He has actually written editorials for the New York Times saying if you want to stop the Iran bomb, then bomb Iran. So, it's no secret where he's coming from here.

But it's also important for our viewers to remember that just a few months ago, Bolton was also saying that U.S. troops would not leave Syria until Iran leaves Syria. Fast forward to present day, here we are, Alisyn.

U.S. troops beginning their withdrawal at the behest of President Trump making it clear that there's not just a concern about escalating tensions between the U.S. and Iran. There's also a broader concern about mix messages coming from the White House and the lack of any real coherent foreign policy -- John.

BERMAN: All right, Clarissa Ward for us in Northern Syria watching that very, very closely. Thanks so much, Clarissa. New headlines swirling about the FBI's decision to open investigation in to the president's relationship with Russia, was he working at the behest of Russia? What's the democrat's next move here? That's next.

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[07:20:00]

BERMAN: New transcripts obtained by CNN detail the internal deliberations at the FBI about investigating whether President Trump was acting in ways that seemed to benefit Russia. Joining us now is democratic senator Chris Coons of Delaware. He's on the former relations and judiciary committee.

So, your committees deal with all of these subjects, senator. James Baker who is the general counsel of the FBI, he testified that he was concerned and there were discussions about whether the president was acting at the behest of and somehow following direction from Russia.

Let me ask you, sir. Did that thought -- those thoughts ever cross your mind over the last two years?

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Well John over the last two years, I have frequently been puzzled and concerned about President Trump's unprecedented closeness to President Vladimir Putin or Russia. He ran as an unconventional candidate and he has certainly over performed in that category.

One of the ways in which he was a dramatic break from all other republican candidates was his public profession of admiration for Putin.

And then his repeated attempts at bridging the gap at closing relations between the United States and Russia at a exactly the time that our own intelligence community assessed that the Russians had successfully interfered in our last elections.

As you may refer -- as you may well recall in the summer of 2017, the senate by a vote of 98 to two passed a comprehensive sanctions package to compel President Trump to take action against Russia. A package that he resisted, criticized, threatened to veto but ultimately signed only when the vote was so overwhelming in the senate.

Yes, I have had significant concerns about what is motivating this unprecedented attitude towards Russia at exactly the same time that Russia has been so aggressive towards our allies and the United States.

BERMAN: All right. The other aspect of this, is this reporting from the Washington Post over the weekend, that the president has been hiding the details of his meetings with Vladimir Putin from members of his own administration, even going as far as to ask for the notes from the interpreter who was at the meeting.

Now, Eric Swalwell who is a democrat in the House says that destruction of evidence is evidence of guilt. Would you go as far as to suggest that the president's reluctance to release these details and ask for the note sis evidence that he's hiding something?

COONS: I wouldn't say that yet. I think that's exactly why we have the investigation being lead by Robert Mueller is to have professional investigators reach those conclusions.

President Trump also has the highly unusual practice of ripping to shreds documents after he's reviewed them or even signed them.

In cases where their drafts -- there have been press reports that it's someone's job in the White House to pull documents out of the trash, tape them back together and submit them to the archives because the president mishandles official presidential documents.

So, what I focus on here, what concerns me, is that when he's met with other heads of state, he has followed more traditional protocol in terms of briefing and including and reading in senior administration officials.

With Russia, he hasn't done that. I am concerned about his report about the treatment of the notes. I don't think it's conclusive. It has to be out in context.

BERMAN: What does it tell you though that he doesn't want the details of those meetings to go public? COONS: It's very concerning. John, it's just one more piece of evidence that his relationship with both Russia generally and Vladimir Putin in particular deserves very close scrutiny.

[07:25:00]

BERMAN: Will you try to get that interpreter before the sate for relationships committee. Not tat you can, you don't run the committee, the democrats and the minority in the senate, but the house.

Would you tell Eliot Engel for instance over in the house, your counterpart over there who is the chair of the house former relations committee, they should try to peak with the interpreter and get their hands on those notes?

COONS: Absolutely. That is something I actively pressed for. The judiciary committee for a while had a functioning investigation in to obstruction of justice. It ground down and then finally stopped because of partisan differences.

The republican majority wouldn't support our asking of series of I think relevant questions that the house judiciary committee will now take up. On this specific question about how our president conducts meetings with foreign heads of state, I do think Chairman Engel in the house should be looking in to this.

BERMAN: All right. It's day 24 of the government shutdown. The longest government shutdown--

COONS: Yes.

BERMAN: -- in U.S. history. Senator Lindsey Graham over the weekend proposed reopening the government for three weeks. Negotiating for those three weeks, and then if it doesn't work, the president would declare a national emergency. Would you support that avenue from Lindsey Graham?

COONS: I strongly agree with Lindsey, with Senator Graham that we should reopen the government. That the amount of harm this is causing to the American people is beginning to snowball.

Whether it's the TSA and FEA and NTSB not keeping our country as safe as they could or it's food safety inspection or farmers all over the country being harmed or 800,000 federal employees and their families. I agree, we should reopen the government.

Look John, all of us support investing in border security. I don't expect the president to capitulate and expect no investment in border security. But I don't think democrats are going to give him $5.7 billion for a wall either.

We should be negotiating with a government that is open, so we aren't harming our reputation in the world and our safety, security and prosperity here at home. BERMAN: Look, I know that President Trump said he would not support a deal that included DACA or provisions to give legal status (inaudible) on Friday then over the weekend he criticized democrats for not negotiating along those lines.

But would you sir, accept a deal that would include more money for border security, even a border barrier if it did include protections, some new protections fro dreamers?

COONS: I cosponsored and advocated for a bill that would have invested $25 billion over ten years in exchange for significant movement, a pathway to citizenship for all dreamers and a number of other changes. But there was also over site. This wasn't a blank check.

This wasn't telling the president here's $25 billion, go build whatever you want wherever you want. So, remember that bipartisan deal that dozens of us supported did include regular annual oversight and a requirement that Department of Homeland Security assess the border and demonstrate that they were using the most appropriate technology.

So, I think there is room here. But what has to begin -- the way this has to start John, is for the president to take a position and stick to it. I feel like I'm stuck as a new member of the Trump of the day club. I don't know what position he's going to hold. Frankly, h might change his position before the end of this interview on Twitter.

That's what Senator Graham himself is so frustrated. He and a number of other republican senators have been trying to negotiate a resolution. And every time they make progress, the president throws cold water on it. And proposals advanced by his own vice president.

BERMAN: I just checked Twitter and the president hasn't changed positions during this interview. However, I'm not quite sure as of the beginning of this interview what his initial position was. Senator Chris Coons from Delaware--

COONS: That's our core problem.

BERMAN: Great to have you with us this morning. Thanks very much.

COONS: Thank you, John.

CAMEROTA: A top economic advisor for the president suggests that some federal workers are quote better off. Do they feel that way? We talked to two of the people not getting paychecks next.

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