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Britain Is Facing One Of The Most Important Political Moments In Its History, The Make Or Break Verdict On Brexit; U.S. President Donald Trump Is Lashing Out Over Reports That He May Have Worked With Russia Against American Interests And He Is Getting Support From The Russian; China Is Slamming The Canadian Prime Minister For Making, Quote, "Irresponsible Remarks;" Kenya's Anti-Terror Unit Has Been Deployed To An Area Near A Hotel In Nairobi Where Police Say A Shooting Incident Has Taken Place. Aired: 8-9a ET

Aired January 15, 2019 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KRISTIE LU STOUT, HOST, "NEWS STREAM": Welcome to a special edition of "News Stream," I'm Kristi Lu Stout in Hong Kong.

MAX FOSTER, ANCHOR, CNN: I'm Max Foster outside the Houses of Parliament in London with some communication problems, not helped by the cacophony of

sounds brought to you by the various sides of the Brexit campaigns here.

Now, it's been more than two and a half years since the U.K. voted to leave the European Union. Now, Britain is facing one of the most important

political moments in its history, the make or break verdict on Brexit just hours away now.

Parliament is currently debating the Prime Minister's deal, but is expected to be a bruising defeat for Theresa May. If her Brexit plan is rejected,

Britain could be forced to leave the E.U. at the end of March with no deal. It all comes despite a last minute plea by Mrs. May to save her proposed

plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: So I say to all members on all sides of this House, whatever you may have previously concluded over these next

24 hours, give this deal a second look. No, it is not perfect, and yes, it is a compromise, but when the history books are written, people will look

at the decision of this House tomorrow and ask, "Did we deliver on the country's vote to leave the European Union? Did we safeguard our economy,

our security, and our union? Or did we let the British people down?"

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Well, we're covering this story from all the angles for you. CNN's Hadas Gold joins us from 10 Downing Street, Matthew Chance following

the crowds of people around Westminster, Melissa Bell is live from the E.U. headquarters in Brussels, first to our Bianca who is here in Parliament, we

are keep being told that this is a historic and seismic moment, is it?

BIANCA NOBILO, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: It is, not the least for the fact that this could be the worst parliamentary defeat that there has been in British

history. So the last big rebellion we had was over the Iraq War in 2003 - that was 139. The Prime Minister is looking at losing the vote on her

Brexit deal by somewhere obviously in the triple digits, but it could be over 200.

Now, how she could continue and how she could continue specifically with that deal remains to be seen. I mean, I think it's pretty impossible if

she has a crushing defeat today for her to continue, but we hear from Cabinet sources that that is exactly what she intends to do despite the

scale of defeat, she is going to keep pushing her plan forward, and her life is now made even more difficult by the role of the Speaker in the

House of Commons.

That might sound quite arcane, these old parliamentary rules, but a lot of this now comes down to his discretion because Parliament is so deadlocked

on this issue.

FOSTER: He chooses what is going to be on debate, he is a remainer ...

NOBILO: Yes.

FOSTER: ... and everyone - well, even remainers are saying he is tipping to mix in. He is in that favor, right?

NOBILO: That has been the accusation against him. Of course, he would maintain that he is neutral in all of this, but the amendments that he

selected today do make the Prime Minister's life a little harder. There was one amendment which could have been a bit of a nice vote for the Prime

Minister, an opportunity for her to get those Brexiteers and some of her back benchers on the side, it hasn't been selected, but wants to reject her

deal and extend Article 50 now.

FOSTER: Okay, let's go to Hadas because we're pretty sure that this deal isn't going to get voted through. It does depend really the scale of

defeat, but how do you think she is going to handle this going forward? She is going to have a Plan B, right?

HADAS GOLD, REPORTER, CNN: Well, so far, the only plan we've heard from Theresa May, as Bianca was saying, was just to keep going with her original

plan, that she has said over and over again is the only deal that delivers on Brexit and guarantees that there will be some sort of deal versus a no-

deal or even a no Brexit.

But a lot of what Theresa May does next does determine on that size of that margin of defeat, because if it's a small margin, she might be able to go

back to Brussels, get a few extra concessions and come back as she has to within three days and address Parliament again on Monday.

If it is a really large margin, we might see a complete change of plans. Perhaps, perhaps, we might see maybe a Norway style option on the table.

We might even see, maybe even some sort of referendum, although Theresa May has said over and over again, she does not want a second referendum.

We will of course, probably see a no confidence vote tabled by Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party, but the numbers don't seem to be there for him

either to possibly win that no confidence vote, because it's one thing for Conservative members to vote against Theresa May's deal, it's another to

vote against her and against the Tory leadership, Max.

[08:05:05]

FOSTER: Okay, Hadas, thank you. The final debate then on this withdrawal bill beginning as we speak in Parliament. Many hours of debate ahead of

the crucial vote. Let's speak to Matthew, he is out there with the crowds. And there is big crowd, isn't there, for people supporting this second

referendum, what are the saying?

MATTHEW CHANCE, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: That is right, Max. There's a crowd of people supporting a second referendum. These are

people that want to remain in the European Union. They think the original election vote referendum vote was based on lies and should be held again,

and they've come out in great numbers today.

As you can see, there's people around here waving European Union flags that want Theresa May - want the British government to put a hold on Brexit, to

postpone it and to go to the people for what they call a "people's vote" for essentially a second referendum with the option of remaining in.

But, you know, matched for everyone here that's turning out to go for a second referendum, we've got people that want Britain to leave, even

without a deal. These are people that voted Brexit in the first instance and they believe that any attempt to derail that process would be a

betrayal of their original vote.

And those people of course run into the millions. I think, there were 17.4 million people in the country that voted for this country to leave and they

are still a very vocal group of individuals. What we are not seeing here, I think it's very interesting, going back to Bianca's point, I don't think

anybody here who supports Theresa May's deal and that may be a sign of things to come in the Parliamentary vote later on tonight.

FOSTER: I mean, it is very vocal. It really just show the amount of emotion involved here, even more emotional it seems than when they

initially had that referendum here in the U.K. People are so entrenched in their positions on this, it's difficult to see where the compromise is in

Parliament and amongst the public.

CHANCE: No, that's absolutely right, and I think that's why it's been so difficult for Theresa May and the British government to find a compromised

solution because the nation is so divided. Parliament is divided. The nation outside is divided. The protesters here outside Parliament are

divided as well, and what's been incredibly difficult for the government is to find a compromise, it's probably impossible, in fact, to find a

compromise to bring those sides together.

Again, ironically, the only thing that has united the protesters so far is their opposition to the deal that Theresa May has negotiated with Brussels.

And so, look, if that is not accepted in Parliament, if Brexit is not postponed, which is an option, but we require a Parliamentary majority, the

only legal default position is for Britain to leave without a deal and that is the way that legally the country is heading at the moment, unless

something changes.

FOSTER: Okay, Matthew, thank you. It's starting to rain here in Westminster, so that might dampen things a little bit, although we're

pretty used to it in this country. Let's go to Melissa now because Melissa, there was some offered help to Theresa May from Brussels

yesterday, a couple of letters sent over, some question about whether or not they are legally binding, but they are playing to the debate, take us

through what those letters are and whether they would stand up in court.

MELISSA BELL, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Well, first and foremost, when you're picking up on what was just being said, Max, the idea that both Donald Tusk

and Jean-Claude Juncker who are the authors of this letter do not have anything more to offer to the British Prime Minister than that deal that

was negotiated.

Let's be clear, over 17 months that represents the only deal possible from the E.U.'s point of view, and the E.U. has been quite consistent in this,

but also in that letter, really going probably as far as they could to try and reassure those MPs that are in favor of a Brexit, those that are most

hard line and that are likely to vote against Theresa May's deal because they want a pure Brexit that the one being offered by the British Prime

Minister.

Talking about that backstop, that controversial issue about that border between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland that worries so many MPs.

But really going no further than saying, look, we are committed not just in this withdrawal agreement, but also in the political declaration that goes

alongside it, to finding a solution that would avoid that backstop ever being put in place and even if at the end of 2020 and this transition

period, no formal agreement had been reached on t the future shape of the relationship between the U.K. and the E.U. and, therefore, the backstop was

necessary for a while.

The E.U. and its institutions would ensure, would do everything that they could to find an agreement quickly so that the backstop didn't stay in

place for terribly long, but that really is about as far as they could go, and all that we have heard over the course of the last few hours and the

last few days is that the E.U. leaders, the E.U. institutions ...

[08:10:10]

BELL: ... and their leadership intend to stand firm. What we expect is that if Theresa May, may fail tonight to get her deal through that she will

come back to Brussels, very difficult to see, though, Max, what she could possibly extract.

FOSTER: Okay, in Brussels, Melissa, thank you. With that, we couldn't get any more from there because from tomorrow really, the debate moves to

Brussels - will Theresa May be able to renegotiate that is the way many people see this going forward.

One thing many in Britain would like that Theresa May has repeated rejected is a second referendum on Britain's membership with the European Union.

Matthew was talking about that. She warned lawmakers in Parliament on Monday that not backing her deal runs the risk of a second vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAY: There are those who want to see no-deal and those who want to see a second referendum and potentially frustrate Brexit. The inexorable logic

of that if this House wants to ensure that we ever delivering on Brexit for the British people is to back the deal that will be before this House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: With me here is Labour MP, Rushanara Ali, thank you for joining us. How often is it like this here in Westminster, when it's particularly

noisy?

RUSHANARA ALI, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT, LABOUR PARTY: Well, lately, it's been quite a regular feature of life in Westminster.

FOSTER: Yes, there's a lot of MPs that have been getting some abuse, haven't they from various people.

ALI: Yes, they have.

FOSTER: Were you suffering from that as well?

ALI: No, I haven't, Max, but some of our colleagues have and obviously, after this vote and in the coming days, that may escalate, so it's very

important that the police provide the protection that people require because we should be able to do our jobs in safety.

FOSTER: Huge amounts of pressure on MPs tonight ahead of this vote, which way are you going to go?

ALI: I am not supporting Theresa May's deal because I don't believe it's in my constituents' interest or in the country's interest. Even in her

analysis, the government's analysis shows that the economy will be nearly 4% smaller under this deal and there is no clarity about what the future

trading relationship will be.

And given Theresa May and her government's record of where we are now, we don't trust that she will be able to negotiate the future trading

relationship within the two-year transition period. It will take many years and that will mean more uncertainly, more damage to our economy and

that's why I can't support this deal.

FOSTER: You're going to like the results of the survey we've been putting to our viewers today, it says, what's the best Brexit option for Britain?

Theresa May's deal 10%, leave with no deal, 9%. So you know, one in ten for both of those, but second referendum, eight out of ten of our viewers

voting at least, it's not a scientific poll, I think a second referendum is the best way forward. These are international viewers. Why do you feel

the same way?

ALI: Well, look, I arrived at the conclusion that we should have a public vote, a second referendum on the deal that Theresa May has negotiated which

is the Brexit in reality that we are getting not the - not actually what was promised two years ago because that was never going to be realistic.

But I believe that the public should have a final say, given that Parliament hasn't been able to settle this. I don't think that it's likely

that this vote will get through today and that's because this deal is not a good enough deal, but if people - if the government is so adamant that this

is the best they can do, then I think the public have the right to vote on it and I think that it's important also that we have the option to remain

because we can now see, after the last two years, what the consequences are of leaving the European Union and what the consequences would be of the

situation that we are in now.

And I think that it's right that we should go back to the people and ask their permission to leave under the deal that she's promising.

FOSTER: So the question in the referendum would be do you support Theresa May's deal or do you want to remain?

ALI: I think that would be the best thing to do because --

FOSTER: Which isn't going to get agreement from those who want a Brexit without any deal whatsoever, a Brexit that they would argue people voted

for last time.

ALI: There is no majority in Parliament for a no deal. I mean, you've already seen that last week in the vote - the motion that was passed last

week and there are many people in Theresa May's government who have threatened to resign --

FOSTER: But why not pop that to the public because obviously, there's more remain MPs than there are members --

ALI: Well, because there's no majority in the country. Your own survey shows that one in ten support - 9% support no deal. There is - people

don't want us to damage our economy any further, but I think the right thing would be to have a people's vote where the deal that Theresa May has

negotiated, the Brexit that she has managed to negotiate, is what goes back to the people, so that they can choose.

Because I think at the end of the day, given the situation we're in, if we cannot - if Parliament can't agree on what should happen, then I think

there should be the right course of action. Otherwise, the people won't --

[08:15:04]

FOSTER: It's a shame, though the Parliament can't sort this out, isn't it?

ALI: Well, because of the way that Theresa May ...

FOSTER: It's a failure, isn't it in the Parliamentary politics ...

ALI: Yes, it is. It is a failure of the government. It is a failure of Theresa May to set the red lines that she did which ruled out a permanent

Customs Union, access to the single market and by putting herself in a straight jacket, she has ended up negotiating a terrible deal which is why

she hasn't is not getting support for it here in Parliament.

FOSTER: Rushunara, I am going to let you get on, so you've got a very long night ahead, and tomorrow is going to be even busier probably, as well.

ALI: I suspect.

FOSTER: On the Labour side, we'll be wondering what your response will be. As lawmakers in Parliament prepare to vote, we want to know what you think.

Get your phones, tablets, computers, join us at cnn.com/join. The question we're asking, what's the best Brexit option for Britain, the deal Theresa

May negotiated with E.U. leaders, leaving the E.U. with no deal or a second referendum? Cast your votes, cnn.com/join. We'll update the results

throughout the day. You can see them there at the bottom of our screen, second referendum is way out in front.

Kristie, over to you.

LU STOUT: All right, Max, thank you. We can hear the drum beat has returned behind you. Big noise during a big week for British politics.

Now, U.S. President Donald Trump, he is lashing out over reports that he may have worked with Russia against American interests and he is getting

support from the Russians.

Also ahead, a former Canadian Ambassador to China is warning relations between the two countries are at a crisis. We'll have more on the death

sentence given to a Canadian man that is damaging relations even more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Welcome back to a rowdy Westminster. In a matter of hours, in the House of Commons just behind me, British Prime Minister Theresa May's

Brexit deal faces its most difficult test that delayed vote in Parliament. A defeat the deal is all but certain, the question is by how much?

Some estimates predict the Prime Minister could lose by more than 100 votes in the face of what could be a historic loss. Mrs. May is being - making

last ditch efforts to get MPs to back her deal, a deal that apparently pleases no one though. We are going to follow the ins and outs of this,

Kristie and also leading into tomorrow, which is the response which could ultimately lead to another general election.

LU STOUT: Absolutely, Max. Thank you. Looking forward to that. And now to the United States and this "New York Times" report that NATO allies will

likely find disturbing. The paper is reporting that U.S. President Donald Trump has privately raised the idea of leaving the alliance several times

since a contentious NATO summit last summer. The reports say since then, Mr. Trump continues to question whether the alliance is still relevant and

claims, it is a drain on the U.S. All of this comes in the fallout over those stunning reports over the President's relationship with Russia.

Democrats, they are discussing whether to subpoena interpreters who attended private meetings between Mr. Trump and Russian President, Vladimir

Putin, this after a report that the President seized an interpreter's notes and demanded the details not be shared with anyone, including those in his

administration after one meeting.

[08:20:10]

LU STOUT: On another front, Moscow is backing up Mr. Trump's denial that he ever worked for Russia. A Kremlin spokesman says the speculation,

quote, "has no relation to reality," echoing Mr. Trump's denial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I never worked for Russia and you know that answer better than anybody. I never worked for Russia,

not only did I never work for Russia, I think it's a disgrace that you even ask that question because it's a whole big fat hoax. It's just a hoax.

LU STOUT: President Trump lashing out there. Let's get right to CNN senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns. He joins us from the White

House, and Joe, it was incredible to hear that, a U.S. President feeling compelled to say he is not a Russian agent.

JOE JOHNS, SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, CNN: It certainly is incredible, but when you think about it, it was very necessary for the

President to issue that denial for at least a couple of reasons. In the first place, over the weekend, the "New York Times" newspaper here in the

United States published an article suggesting that the FBI launched an investigation into whether Mr. Trump was wittingly or unwittingly working

as an asset of Russia, especially when he fired FBI Director James Comey.

The President was asked about that over the weekend, for the first time did not issue a direct denial, though he did register his indignance over the

article. So it was necessary yesterday, the President in front of a helicopter flying out was asked about this again and issued that denial.

Also important to say to our international viewers who pay any attention to United States politics are well aware that Mr. Trump, time and again, has

been seen as cozying up to Russia in a variety of different ways, all of which has made his relationship with Vladimir Putin very curious to

political watchers here in the United States -- Kristie and Max.

LU STOUT: Yes, curious is the word. You know, Donald Trump openly criticizes, for example, Theresa May, Angela Merkel, not so with Vladimir

Putin. Joe Johns, we'll leave it at that, but thank you very much indeed for your reporting. Joe Johns at the White House.

And while Mr. Trump is trying to play down his relationship with Mr. Putin, he has been working on getting closer to North Korean leader, Kim Jong-un.

According to a source, he wrote a letter to Mr. Kim that was flown over to Pyongyang and hand delivered over the weekend.

The source also added one of North Korea's top negotiators could visit Washington this week to finalize details for a second U.S.-North Korea

summit.

China is slamming the Canadian Prime Minister for making, quote, "irresponsible remarks." This comes after Justin Trudeau criticized a

Chinese court's death sentence against a convicted Canadian drug smuggler. The death sentence given to this man comes after Canada arrested the CFO of

Huawei at the request of the United States.

A former Canadian Ambassador to China told CNN that relations between Beijing and Ottawa are at a crisis point. Both countries have now issued

travel warnings against the other. CNN's senior producer Steven Jiang joins us from Beijing, but let's start with Paula Newton standing by in

Ottawa. And Paula, it was you who spoke to this former Canadian Ambassador to China. Tell us more about what he said, how is he describing relations

between the two countries right now?

PAULA NEWTON, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Yes, Kristie, his comments, in fact, were quite pressing, and especially given what the Chinese Foreign Ministry

said today, his point is that this is at a crisis level, and Kristie, it's not just at a crisis level in terms of geopolitics, but hanging in the

balance of the future of Mr. Schellenberg and two other Canadians who right now are detained in China awaiting even any kind of specific allegations or

evidence against them.

All of this culminating in what are very, very serious comments from both governments right now, but Kristie, what it was interesting to see what

really angered the Chinese government yesterday and it was this comment from Justin Trudeau, Canada's Prime Minister. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: It is of extreme concern to us as a government and as it should be to all our international friends and

allies that China has chosen to begin to arbitrarily apply death penalty in cases facing - as in this case facing a Canadian.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: And it was really that issue of arbitrarily, China reminding Canada that they believe Mr. Schellenberg to be 1900% guilty even though he

claims his innocence, and the fact now that as you say, Kristie, they are dueling travel advisories. I can say that I just received another advisory

from Global Affairs Canada, underscoring the fact that their advisory for China has not changed, although they are letting citizens know that they

should show extreme caution.

[08:25:00]

NEWTON: Kristie, this is all adding up to quite a diplomatic spat between China and Canada, and I have to say Kristie, a spat that either country can

ill afford right now just given all the economic pressures in terms of trying to expand trade and trying to expand those relations.

Again, I've spoken to the family of Mr. Schellenberg, Kristie, and they are not just heartbroken, they are quite literally in a state of despair, not

knowing if this gentleman's appeal will be granted and we should know more about that in the next few days.

LU STOUT: Absolutely, Paula, thank you. Let's go to Steven in Beijing, and Steven, we heard from Justin Trudeau, lambasting this decision, saying

what the Chinese have done, this was a death sentence that was arbitrarily applied. So why did China do this? Is this politics? Is this a

calculated response to what happened to that Huawei exec?

STEVEN JIANG, SENIOR PRODUCER, CNN: Well, Kristie, why the death sentence obviously depends on who you ask. The Chinese have insisted this

punishment is based on the nature and severity of his crime in accordance with Chinese law, but I think Prime Minister Trudeau and many other

observers would beg to defer because what stands out in this case is the timing.

Schellenberg was actually arrested back in December 2014 and it took almost four years for the Chinese authorities to hand down his first conviction as

an accessory to drug smuggling and a sentence of 15 years in prison. He then appealed that decision, but what happened shortly after that was the

arrest of Meng Wanzhou, the Huawei executive in Canada.

Soon after that, his case seems to have become fast tracked. He soon got appeal hearing during which the court sided with the prosecution that

claimed to have uncovered new evidence against him. Two weeks later, he received a new trial, Monday, yesterday and was quickly convicted and

sentenced to death.

Now, keep in mind the Chinese Communist Party and its leadership have absolute control over every aspect of the government including the

Judiciary and officials here and the state media had been warning Canada all along that it could face severe consequences if it did not free Ms.

Meng and that is why this latest conviction and sentence are making many people more convinced that Schellenberg has become a pawn in this

increasingly nasty diplomatic fight, Kristie.

LU STOUT: Yes, and as a result, tensions between Canada and China have reached this crisis point. Steven Jiang reporting live from Beijing.

Paula Newton live for us from Ottawa, a big thank you both.

You are watching "News Stream" and keep it here, because up ahead, Theresa May's moment of truth is nearly here, and it is affecting financial

markets. We're going to have a live report ahead of that looming Brexit vote, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Welcome back to Westminster in London. I am Max Foster. We return to our top story, which today's key vote on Theresa May's Brexit

deal, a vote that will affect the country's 66 million citizens for many years to come.

Shortly after 7:00 P.M. local time, British Members of Parliament will begin voting on a series of amendments to the deal with the final

meaningful vote as it is called between 8:00 and 9:00 P.M., we think.

Parliament looks all but certain to deliver a decisive defeat on May's deal. Meanwhile, trade across European markets, well under way. Let's

have a look at them, the main markets are mixed. London's FTSE slightly up right now as investors are likely taking a wait and see approach ahead of

the crucial Brexit vote. You can see there, German shares down slightly.

Anna Stewart looking at all this for us. Are they taking much notice of today's events or are they more focused on tomorrow?

ANNA STEWART, REPORTER, CNN: I think currently what we're seeing here is traders treading water ahead of the vote. I think what everyone wants to

see, politicians and traders alike is how big of a defeat is that and what does it mean for the Brexit process going forwards?

Now, the British pound has been particularly sensitive to all things Brexit ever since the vote back to 2016 when it fell to a 31-year low to $1.33.

If you look at it today, it's around $1.28. It's been at this handle now for some months with the odd little spike on a little bit Brexit movement

here and there, but yes, treading water so far, but the big question is how will it move after this after this evening?

Now, general expectations are if we see - if Theresa May wins the vote, which is highly unlikely of course, you could see the pound moving up by 3%

to 5%. That's according to JPMorgan. A mega loss, we're looking more likely to see it going down below $1.24. Most people think if she win with

a margin of a hundred votes, Max, maybe it sticks around the $1.28, $1.27 handle.

So we are waiting to see what happens there. As you said, the FTSE is ever so slightly higher, that's because most of the companies on that make their

money in dollars. So we normally see an inversion as Sterling gets weaker, we should see that going up. You mentioned the German market. I'll just

bring in a little bit on that.

We've had some very disappointing sort of GDP figures out recently and so that is why we're now seeing that index falling -- Max.

FOSTER: Okay, Anna, thank you very much, indeed. Let me keep you across that, also very interesting to see how the markets respond tomorrow and any

follow-ups such as a vote of confidence in the government.

Let's speak to Gavin Esler now, a former counterpart at the BBC. And, you know, you had a big challenge, didn't you? You had to stay utterly

impartial. We all have views on these things. And then since you've left the BBC, you've been a bit more able to say what you think, but how has

that process been for you?

GAVIN ESLER, JOURNALIST AND CHANCELLOR, UNIVERSITY OF KENT: Well, in one way, it was fairly easy because I accepted the Brexit vote because I

thought that's what the people decided in 2016. But over the past two and a half, nearly three years, the scale of the lies and deceptions, the

cheating and the incompetence of frankly, the British government has been so profound. It seems to me, we are about to commit a really, really

serious crime against the future generations unless we stop this.

So this is actually a good day to be British. It's a good day to be at the Mother of Parliaments because it's a day when I think Parliament will take

back control and say to the Prime Minister, "This is terrible, we're not going to do it."

FOSTER: When you talk about Parliament taking back control, a seismic moment in British history that Parliament, you know, this will be a long-

term arrangement, won't it? It effectively takes control from the government and in the future, that will happen in other crises at the same

time.

ESLER: Well, I think this is a moment like 1940 frankly, when Churchill came to power and Britain decided it was going to fight rather than

surrender to the Nazis. Now, I am not making that as a fast out comparison. I am saying that this is what Parliament should be doing and

Parliament has been sidelined by, let's not forget, Theresa May has a minority government.

She staged a general election in 2017 and didn't win it. So she is just hanging on by her fingertips. Nobody, including people who will vote for

her deal tonight, really likes it. And I think MPs will overwhelmingly reject it and say, "We need time to think again."

FOSTER: We've asked our viewers, obviously, this are international viewers, not particularly scientific, what's the best Brexit option for

Britain. Just one in ten saying Theresa May's deal, but loads of them, 8 out of 10, saying a second referendum. What do you make of that?

ESLER: Your viewers are extremely wise. Look, the people need to say what they want. MPs are seriously divided. There is some very, very good

people in there, in that Mother of Parliaments, but there has been a mother of all battles for the last two years. They can't decide in a majority

fashion what should happen. They should go back to the people with Theresa May's deal and say, "Do you want this?" And people will say no. In which

case, I think we may get no Brexit. But we'll have to see, but there should be a second referendum. The people of this country have to be

consulted about something so important for our children.

FOSTER: Do you think there are questions about democracy playing out here that are also playing out in Washington for example, elsewhere?

[08:35:01]

ESLER: I think that's the key to me. Two things about that. One is, you've got a government, an executive in Washington, the President and

Congress facing off about the border wall, a big struggle - Democratic struggle there and a Democratic struggle here. That's one thing.

The second thing is, what I really fear more than Brexit itself is the normalization of lies and deception, which is taking place in Washington

and which I'm pleased to say CNN and others are calling out repeatedly.

If we let some of the lies about Brexit take hold, we will go down that route to Trump land that I wouldn't like to see that at all, and just to

give you one example, we were told that Brexit would produce the easiest trade deals in history. We would have our cake and eat it. We're now

being told by some in the government, if you don't vote from this, there will be trouble from right wingers on the streets. Is that the best we can

do?

And we appeased the far right before in our history, it didn't go very well. I don't think we are in a position where want to appease them again.

FOSTER: Gavin, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate your time that you're able to join us here as well. So one vote tonight, but

opening up all sorts of seismic questions for the U.K. and democracy here. You're watching a special edition of "News Stream" and we'll be back in

just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LU STOUT: Breaking news, just in to CNN, Kenya's anti-terror unit has been deployed to an area near a hotel in Nairobi where police say a shooting

incident has taken place. David McKenzie joins us now from Johannesburg and David, is this an active shooting? Is this happening right now?

What's the latest?

DAVID MCKENZIE, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Yes, it appears that this is ongoing, a very serious situation unfolding in Nairobi, kenya, we believe. Now, the

police spokesman told local media that they are deploying or have deployed the anti-terror unit and the CID, that's the elite investigators of the

police.

There have been images of both private security and military pulling people out of the scene of the Dusit Hotel, now that's an upscale boutique hotel

and complex near a pretty well-known section of Nairobi, and this has been going on now for some time.

There was a plume of smoke and an apparent explosion rising above the buildings of that Westland's part of Nairobi, followed by a spate of

messages online of people wondering what was going on and, unfortunately, at this stage, authorities appear to say they believe the worst.

When asked, point-blank, whether this was a terror attack, we know the Kenyan spokesman said that we have to assume that this is the highest

possible type incident. And as I said, this is an ongoing situation in Nairobi. Nothing confirmed yet in terms of the nature of this attack, but

there has certainly been gunfire ringing out in the afternoon there in the capital of Kenya as well as very disturbing scenes playing out in Nairobi -

- Kristie.

LU STOUT: Yes, very disturbing scenes playing out and about five years ago, there was the West Gate Mall siege in Nairobi, Kenya. That was an act

of terror. This right now in Nairobi, an active shooting situation, as you reported, an anti-terror unit has been deployed and police are not quite

answering your question directly, but ...

[08:40:10]

LU STOUT: ... they are treating this as an act of terror?

MCKENZEI: Yes, it appears that they are, and certainly that the Recce Unit which is a well-known anti-terror unit of the Kenyan military has been

deployed to the scene. They were seen moving into the area of this hotel with automatic weapons in plain clothes. And, of course, in body armor.

As I say, this has been a city that has reeled through attacks of terror attacks in the past. At this stage, too early to tell definitively, but it

certainly looks like authorities, at least, are fearing the worst -- Kristie.

LU STOUT: Yes, fearing the worst, very fluid situation. David McKenzie, thank you very much indeed for giving us that update, and that is "News

Stream." I am Kristie Lu Stout in Hong Kong and do stay with CNN for more on this attack out of Nairobi.

FOSTER: And I'm Max Foster outside the Houses of Parliament in London, a noisy place to be today. More on the upcoming Brexit vote coming up at the

top of the hour. "World Sport," though, is next with Alex Thomas.

(SPORTS)

[09:00:00]

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