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TSA Screeners Continue Work without Pay; Law Enforcement Officers Killed; Thousands of Migrant Kids Separated; Trump Directed Cohen to Lie. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 18, 2019 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:31:54] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: It is day 28 of the government shutdown. Airports around the country are feeling the effects. Some TSA employees are not showing up for work.

Joining us now is TSA screener Allex Hutchins. He's a member of the American Federation of Government Employees Union. He is a former combat veteran. And he is working without pay.

Alex, thanks so much for being here.

You're working noon to 8:30 every day. you're not being paid. Obviously that is causing a lot of personal stress. But tell us why some of your colleagues, your fellow screeners, are not coming in to work.

ALLEX HUTCHINS, TSA SCREENER WORKING WITHOUT PAY: It's starting to get difficult on a lot of personnel as far as coming to work because you're put in a tough situation where you've got to decide, do you buy something to eat or do you put gas in your vehicle. And as this goes on, no one is prepared to actually be able to come to work and it costs money to come there and you're not getting any money. So the airport's doing a lot of things to try to help us out, such as providing food and stuff like that. But, personally, I don't -- if you don't have gas to come to work, you just can't come to work and that's --

CAMEROTA: And that's really important to know. I mean also, obviously, there's child care issues. And you don't see this, in other words, as a protest, a sick-out, an intentional sick-out protest? This is -- these -- you're saying your colleagues are make -- having to make real life choices?

HUTCHINS: Yes. People are making real life situation -- choices. If people -- if people was able to make money, they would come to work. They don't have a problem coming to work. They want to come to work. It's just the fact that they don't have the financial assets and needs to be able to get to work.

CAMEROTA: The workload has not changed. You have the same amount of passengers that you have to screen, but you're doing it with fewer TSA screeners. And so tell me the situation that that's causing at airports.

HUTCHINS: Well, it's putting a stress on you because the policy doesn't change. The standards doesn't change. And the standards still have to be enforced. It's one passenger, one screener, one SOP. And so everyone is still doing their job. They're just doing more of their job.

CAMEROTA: And so passengers are getting quite testy. And, in fact, you've been on the receiving end of some of their hostility. What are they saying to you?

HUTCHINS: Well, some of the passengers are very nice. They're polite. They give you respect saying, hey, thank you for being here. But some of the passengers, oh my goodness. They will say stuff to you like -- one guy was like, hey, when do you guys think you'll get paid? And his buddy turned around and said, they'll get paid when Trump gets his wall.

You've got to understand, this is not about Trump's wall. This is about America, you know. and I'm doing a job, you know. I don't -- I don't need that. That's not really necessary.

CAMEROTA: Is there any way to predict which passenger is going to be a really bad apple?

HUTCHINS: Oh, yes, you can see it. They've got this look on their face and it's as clear as day. I can tell you right now, if I was to say, I know how that guy voted based on his appearance and how he approach you and --

CAMEROTA: What -- what does that mean? What do you -- what do they -- what do they betray (ph) in their appearance?

HUTCHINS: They have this sense of arrogance. And it's a mean, hostile look. And it's like they're -- it's like they're coming to attack you for doing your job and your job is to keep them safe. I mean who does that?

CAMEROTA: You're the one showing up for work, by the way.

HUTCHINS: Exactly. And, I mean, if we're not showing up, trust me, those passengers are not catching a plane that day.

[08:35:03] And we understand. We don't want the lines to be long. We really, truly don't. We want people to come there, you know, come -- we want the passengers to be able to come there, catch their flight without being a distraction or a hindrance to those passengers. But you've got to understand, passengers, we're there to help you and protect you. We -- you know, and that's -- that's our job. That's what we focus on. We're not there to try to delay your -- your flight. Trust me, we want you in and out of there. I want you out of my face as soon as possible because I don't want to have a long, drawn out conversation with you.

CAMEROTA: Have you encountered passengers with "Make America Great" caps on? HUTCHINS: Oh, yes. There was a guy came through there the other day.

He had a "Make America Great" hat on. He had his hat on. He had his t- shirt on. But, hey, guess what, as a professional, we still treated him with the utmost respect.

CAMEROTA: Of course. No, and I'm not suggesting they shouldn't wear that. I was just suggesting that you -- I thought that you had a particular experience with people who show up with their MAGA hats.

HUTCHINS: Yes. And they -- they come through there and we treat them with respect. I could care less about your political affiliations. That doesn't matter to me. The only thing that matters to me is, I do my job to the standard to get you out of there. And they will say stuff that's like, are you serious, guys? Do you realize who you're talking to? I mean, no, it's really, truly not necessary. We don't -- we don't mind -- you know, hey, support Trump, support Hillary, support whoever you want to. But understand this, we see you as a flying public and our job is to make sure that you get on that aircraft and make sure that aircraft gets you to where you're trying to get to and reach your destination safely. That's all we're trying to do.

CAMEROTA: Yes. See, that's such a good reminder. You're trying to keep people safe, even if it's really frustrating with long lines.

Allex Hutchins, best of luck to you. Obviously we will keep in touch with you. We hope for your sake that this ends soon. Thank you so much for your service, as well and for doing your job.

HUTCHINS: Thank you. I appreciate it.

CAMEROTA: OK.

BERMAN: Thanks for showing up to work and keeping us safe, right?

HUTCHINS: I know, right?

BERMAN: Since the beginning of the year, seven police officers have lost their lives in the line of duty. We're going to pay tribute to them, next.

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[08:40:57] BERMAN: A tragic start to the new year for law enforcement. Seven officers have been killed in the United States since January 1st. This morning, we pay tribute to those fallen heroes who went "Beyond the Call of Duty."

Here's Martin Savidge.

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MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Officers Natalie Corona and Chateri Payne were killed within two days of each other, both only weeks on the force. Payne, of the Shreveport Police Department, died January 9th, shot

while headed to work to begin her shift. Graduating from the Police Academy in November she posted, long days, aching nights, but I decided to stand tall on my dream.

CHIEF BEN RAYMOND, SHREVEPORT POLICE DEPARTMENT: She was well-liked by her classmates. And it was evident to all she had a true calling to serve.

SAVIDGE: Officer Payne was murdered on National Law Enforcement Appreciation Day. Now her young daughter has no mother.

Twenty-two-year-old Natalie Corona of the Davis, California, Police Department was ambushed, authorities say, responding to a car accident. She had completed field training just weeks before.

Thousands attended a vigil for the young second generation officer whose father's a retired sheriff. In 2016, she posted a photo of herself in a blue dress holding a flag honoring law enforcement.

The fallen include veterans. Forty-four-year-old Sergeant Wytasha Carter of the Birmingham Police Department was shot and killed early January 13th when he encountered two men breaking into vehicles. His loss is felt throughout the department.

CHIEF PATRICK SMITH, BIRMINGHAM POLICE DEPARTMENT: Everyone around him, who's worked with him, has indicated that he was a very compassionate, natural born leader.

SAVIDGE: Fellow officers saluted as the coroner transported Carter's remains. He's not only a veteran officer, but an Air Force veteran as well, leaving behind a wife and children.

Twenty-nine-year-old Provo, Utah, Officer Joseph Shinners was the first police officer to die this year, shot and killed January 5th during the arrest of a wanted fugitive. He had been on the force three years and leaves behind a wife and young son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a hole that I don't think will ever be filled. But Joe, I think, has left a legacy with each and every one of us.

SAVIDGE: Gunfire isn't the only danger. Forty-six-year-old Dale Woods of Colerain Township, Ohio, died January 7th working a crash scene. He was moving a traffic cone when he was struck by a pickup truck. Even in death, he saved lives as an organ donor. He has three children.

Salt River Police Officer Clayton Townsend died on January 8th in Arizona. He was struck and killed by another car as he approached the vehicle he had just pulled over. The driver who hit him admitted to texting and driving. He leaves behind a wife and 10-month-old son.

CHIEF KARL AUERBACH, SALT RIVER POLICE DEPARTMENT: He was truly a guardian of the people. He was known by all to be very caring and compassionate.

SAVIDGE: Illinois State Trooper Christopher Lambert was on his way home January 12th when he came across a crash and stopped to render aid. Standing outside his cruiser, which he deliberately placed to protect crash survivors, he was struck by another vehicle that failed to slow down or move over. He never made it to his house where his wife and one-year-old daughter were waiting.

These are seven who sacrificed everything, even as the year has barely begun.

Martin Savidge, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: We thank Martin Savidge for bringing us that remembrance.

Meanwhile, a newly uncovered memo shows that as early as 2017, the Trump administration began planning to separate migrant children from their families when they were apprehended at the U.S./Mexico border.

Meanwhile, a separate watchdog report shows the Trump administration has no idea how many kids were separated. But it is thousands more than it had previously admitted.

[08:45:04] And CNN's Nick Valencia is life in Atlanta with more.

Just when we thought this story couldn't get any worse, Nick.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, this inspector general report is stunning. And as you noted, it shows us that the Trump administration had no idea how many children that it separated, but it's thousands more than its previously been reported. That number, 2,737.

And here's part of what that inspector-general report said here. Quote, more children over a longer period of time were separated by immigration authorities and were referred to HHS care than is commonly discussed in the public debate. How many more children were separated is unknown.

And at issue, according to inspector-general, is a lack of a proper data collection system. Effectively, the Trump administration couldn't distinguish between children that came here on their own that crossed into the United States without a parent or guardian, and those that the Trump administration deliberately separated.

What we also learned in this report, you remember last summer a federal judge set a deadline for reunification. Well, children continue to be separated even after that deadline had passed, though DHS notes that most of those children, there was concern with criminal history with a parent or guardian.

And we're learning all of this while we're also finding out that there was talks and plans far earlier than any of us knew that the Trump administration had to separate families. And we're learning this information from Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon, who released a memo drafted by DHS and DOJ officials which shows that they were working on a family separation policy as early as December 2017 despite later claims that no such policy existed. Merkley tweeted at the president last night saying the shutdown is part of a crisis that he deliberately created using these children as political pawns and not treating them as vulnerable human beings.

John.

BERMAN: This is going on for a lot longer than it has been reported --

VALENCIA: Absolutely.

BERMAN: And the numbers are much bigger. They can't give us an exact number. Remember, these aren't widgets, these are children.

Nick Valencia, thanks so much for being with us.

We'll be right back.

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[08:51:02] CAMEROTA: A bombshell "BuzzFeed" report claims President Trump directed his former lawyer, Michael Cohen, to lie to Congress about the Trump Tower Moscow project. CNN has not independently confirmed this report.

Earlier on NEW DAY, one of the journalists behind it told us that he is certain that his law enforcement sources on this story are, quote, rock solid.

Joining us now is Garrett Graff, author of "The Threat Matrix: Inside Robert Mueller's FBI and the War on Global Terror."

Garrett, you guide us every day through the matrix of Robert Mueller's investigation. Is today -- if this report is true -- a game changer?

GARRETT GRAFF, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It absolutely is. This is potentially one of the biggest, substantive developments that we have seen in this investigation in months. And I say that after several months of what have been already pretty important developments.

This -- and just to note, you know, this report from "BuzzFeed" from Jason Leopold and Anthony Cormier, these are two of the journalists who have been at the top of their game throughout the entire Russia investigation. So this is -- we have sort of every reason to trust their sourcing and every reason to trust these two specific journalists.

BERMAN: I will say, they nailed the Trump Tower Moscow story. They had the reports that the timeline was being fudged from the beginning. You know, months before Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to it.

But, Garrett, I do want to ask you because people may not know this. Among your many talents, you ran "The Washingtonian" for a while. You ran a magazine. So journalism is very much in your blood.

You mentioned Jason Leopold. He had a bit of a checkered past as a reporter. In the Patrick Fitzgerald case and the various investigations during the Bush administration he was accused of inventing sources and there were editors, you know, who wouldn't touch him then.

Now, Anthony Cormier tells us all the sources in this story that matter, the law enforcement sources, are his. But should that cause us concern and take a step back and take this report with a grain of salt?

GRAFF: I don't think necessarily in this specific case. You know, "BuzzFeed," as you said, has been one of the news outlets that has led the way on this story start to finish. You know, right from the start really with the Steele dossier through their Trump Tower reporting. These two reporters, Jason and Anthony, have done some incredible work on some of the financial movements that the Treasury Department has been interested in that have been handed over to Mueller as part of this Russia probe. So this -- this is news coming from a team that has demonstrated their bonafides (ph) on this particular story in ways that rank with the, you know, the best reporting that we've seen.

CAMEROTA: I mean Jason Leopold got in trouble for his reporting but it was in 2002, 2006. So it's possible, obviously, that he has learned and changed. But I would have felt a lot better, and I want to ask you, Garrett, you know, they didn't see the texts. They didn't see the e-mails. They didn't see the transcripts of the other interviews with the other Trump Organization people that they say their law enforcement sources are relying on. So it's not just Michael Cohen's word against Donald Trump. It's not just he said/he said. It's this other mound of evidence. And I wish that the reporters had been able to see it, but, again, what they say is that their sources are rock solid.

GRAFF: Yes. I mean one of the things that we can know in this particular case, unfortunately, is that their sources have been incredibly good on other aspects of this story. And we have some sense actually of who some of those previous, anonymous sources are because actually one of them has been arrested by the FBI for leaking to "BuzzFeed" about some of those Treasury center -- financial center transactions. So, you know, we know from the past -- and as John mentioned on the Trump Tower Moscow story, they nailed every aspect of that story, you know, six to eight months before Robert Mueller became public with it.

[08:55:13] BERMAN: So -- so, Garrett, you know Robert Mueller here. And if this story is accurate, the Mueller team is sitting on evidence that the president of the United States suborned perjury. That's what this reads as. Why? Like, what's going on here?

GRAFF: Yes.

BERMAN: What's Mueller doing with that? Why haven't we heard more about this?

GRAFF: Well, so this -- you know, three things stand out to me really quickly in reading through this story. First, this is both the collusion and it's the conspiracy. You know, and this is a window into how much Robert Mueller actually knows because it, again, based on what we know from the sourcing that they're reporting, you know, they have documents and Trump Organization witnesses contributing to this.

CAMEROTA: All right, Garrett Graff, thank you very much for walking us through it as you do so often.

All right, on this latest bombshell report, we'll have more on it, obviously. We are awaiting the White House's response.

BERMAN: There hasn't been one.

CAMEROTA: Maybe it's early.

BERMAN: Maybe.

CAMEROTA: President Trump hasn't tweeted about it.

BERMAN: More after this.

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