Return to Transcripts main page


High School Students Face Off With native Americans; U.S. Senator Kamala Harris Announces Bid For President; Japanese Justice Questions; WhatsApp Limits How Widely Users Can Share Messages; Uber Planning To Develop Self-Driving Electric Scooters; Giuliani Remarks Renew Questions on What Trump Knew And When; Giuliani Says Trump May Have Talked to Cohen About His Testimony; Jake Tapper Interviews Rudy Giuliani about Trump Tower in Moscow; Theresa May Lays Out Next Steps to End Brexit Deadlock; Irish Backstop Remains Key Sticking Point for Brexit; IMF Forecast for Global Growth; Protests Force Zimbabwe Leader to Skip Davos; A Viral Video Doesn't Tell The Whole Story. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired January 21, 2019 - 14:00   ET


[14:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Happy Monday. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani. Tonight, the American President Donald

Trump is keeping quiet on the Russia investigation, but those who want his job are not taking the day off. The latest to declare a 2020 run for the

White House is the California Senator, Kamala Harris. We'll tell you more about her. And this American teenager whose picture went viral over the

weekend is speaking about the standoff with the Nathan Phillips, Native American veteran that sparked outrage.

Also, worldwide changes that could change how you use WhatsApp. Find out what they are ahead.

So, Donald Trump's attorney is once again raising eyebrows with remarks about the Russia investigation. Renewing some big questions about what the

President knew and when. Mr. Trump appeared in public briefly today. It was an unannounced visit to a memorial for civil rights hero Martin Luther

King, Jr. On a national holiday honoring his birth which is today. The President's attorney Rudy Giuliani was talk of the town Sunday after making

the talk show rounds. He spoke about Mr. Trump's conversation with his former attorney, Michael Cohen, about a proposed Trump tower in Moscow.

Now, remember, Cohen has pleaded guilty to lying to congress about the extent of Mr. Trump's knowledge of the project. Here's what Giuliani told

Jake Tapper.


RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR THE PRESIDENT: President Trump did not have discussions with him, certainly had no discussions with him in which he

told him or counseled him to lie. If he had any discussions with him, they'd be about the version of the events that Michael Cohen gave then --

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: But you just acknowledged that it's possible President Trump talked to Michael Cohen about his testimony.

GIULIANI: Which would be perfectly normal. What the President believed was true.

TAPPER: You acknowledged he might have talked to him about his testimony.

GIULIANI: And so, what if he talked to him about it.

TAPPER: Is it not --


GORANI: So, what also made news is that Giuliani said the conversations about a potential Trump Tower in Moscow continued until just before the

2016 elections. Now, this is a completely different version from what we've heard from the President's inner circle and the President himself.

There's a lot to break down here. Let's bring in White House reporter Jeremy Diamond with more. So, Giuliani once again kind of seemingly going

off script and saying things that people would assume the personal attorney of the President of the United States would not be saying live on

television. He's trying to walk back those comments about those discussions about the Trump tower having gone -- having happened well into

2016 now?

JEREMY DIAMOND: Yes, that's right. You know, it has been baffling in Washington from both sides of the aisle. Democrats and Republicans alike

questioning why the President's attorney, Rudy Giuliani, would go on the Sunday shows to open more questions essentially. You know, what we had

seen heading into the weekend was the special counsel coming out with this rare statement contradicting the "BuzzFeed" news report, which alleged that

the President had directed his personal attorney Michael Cohen to lie to congress. And the special counsel coming out with that very rare statement

really kind of closed the book on that story, at least for now. And then we have the President's attorney, Rudy Giuliani, coming out and raising

more and more questions about this matter. He suggested that it was possible that the President had, in fact, spoken with Michael Cohen prior

to his congressional testimony. And then, of course, he suggested that the President may have been apprised and staying aware of these negotiations

for possible tower in Moscow right up until the November 2016 election. And now, as you mentioned, Rudy Giuliani is trying to walk some of that

back by saying that he wasn't speaking with any degree of certainty here, but nonetheless, the Trump -- President Trump and his lawyers and his

administration had come out of a win here with the special counsel statement and now they seem to be right back where they started with more

and more questions being raised.

GORANI: Sure. And this would be extremely significant because if it's the case, it would mean that the President was discussing a real estate project

in Moscow while he was running for President, while he was calling for the lifting of sanctions on Russia and other messages directed at Russia that

had raised eyebrows in the summer of 2016.

[14:05:00] DIAMOND: Exactly, exactly. And we know that the President has previously offered misleading and false statements about his knowledge of

these -- of this Trump Tower deal. You know, he had previously offered differing time lines for when he had stopped working on this project or

when his team had stopped working on this project. It later came to light that this project was going on until June of 2018. Now, again, all coming

from the President's own personal attorney which makes this so extraordinary, now saying those discussions may have even continued into

October, November of 2016. And as you mention, it's also the policy implications of this that are so, so significant because while he was

pushing for this deal, he was also talking about reducing sanctions on Russia, improving relations with Russia, leaving the NATO alliance, issues

that are still very much at the fore today and on which the President has not really changed his position.

GORANI: Jeremy Diamond, thanks very much. Of course, the shutdown continues.

One of Mr. Trump's most prominent and popular critics announced plans to challenge him in 20. The Democratic Senator Kamala Harris said she is

running for President. She took questions from reporters a short time ago. She's not alone, though, in his Presidential ambitions. Harris is one of a

growing number of candidates for next year's election. We'll have much more on this later this hour. She was speaking at Howard University in

Washington, D.C. today.

67 days is how long Britain has before it leaves the European Union. Now, how it leaves is still up very much for debate. Less than a week after

Theresa May's deal was rejected roundly by parliament, she was back again in the house of commons to offer an alternative. She said she will return

to Brussels to try and seek more concessions on the issue of a second referendum, Mrs. May said it would set a difficult precedent.


THERESA MAY, UK PRIME MINISTER: I set out many times my deep concerns about returning to the British people for a second referendum. Our duty is

to implement the decision of the first one. I fear a second referendum would set a difficult precedent that could have significant implications

for how we handle referendums in this country. But I also believe there has not yet been enough recognition of the way that a second referendum

could damage social cohesion by undermining faith in our democracy.



GORANI: Let's get more into this. Bianca Nobilo has been covering this story all day. What has may got, what is she offering beyond her first

Brexit deal she hopes could convince those who opposed her first deal to support this one?

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very little. An M.P. came up to speak to me just before the prime minister gave the speech. I said, what are you

expecting? And he said, plan A in a sparkly costume. That is precisely what we got, no substantive changes.

GORANI: What is May thinking, then, what's her strategy?

NOBILO: She said she's changed her approach. Her plan is to be far more collaborative, to reach out to all of the parties to get their input on the

problems they currently have with the withdrawal agreement and see if she can go back to the E.U. and try and tweak it accordingly. Now, if we look

at the way that this has been undertaken, the E.U. had a clear negotiating mandate from before the negotiations even began. That was decided by the

E.U. and given to Michel Barnier. We are 67 days out from when Britain is supposed to leave and now Theresa May is asking the house of commons what

it wants from Brexit.

GORANI: Both MPs and parties were saying we will not accept a no deal. This is suicidal. They're going to try to take power away from the prime

minister and make sure that doesn't happen. Are they likely to succeed?

NOBILO: It's difficult to say at this point. The prime minister addressed that when she spoke to the House of Commons today. She said if you're

worried about no deal, there's only two ways that that can happen. And she also spoke about the fact that no Brexit is still a concern as she has this

entire time. Her plan was to convince MPs they either have to revoke article 50 which is no deal, which doesn't honor the result of the

referendum and we understand why, or they need to agree to a deal. That's why she wants to push ahead with the deal she has. In terms of the plots

and coups as they have been referred it in the British media by parliamentarians to wrestle power back from the prime minister and her

government, we'll be seeing that develop over this week. So next Monday, that's when amendments to the prime minister's statement of intent today

will be debated over. And that will be the opportunity for MPs to express support for various different things, like extending article 50, or being

in the customs union.

GORANI: They can't extend article 50 willy-nilly they need the E.U. to be on board. They can revoke article 50. That the E.U. said you can do,

don't need a reason. But to extend it because you're not ready is something the E.U. --

[14:10:00] NOBILO: Theresa May referenced that, too. She said if it's simply a deferral that is not in the E.U.'s interest to grant. However, if

there is a clear reason, i.e., election or second referendum, that's understandable. Across parties they are pushing for those options. They

would need to see an extension of article 50 before they can explore those alternatives.

GORANI: One of the big sticking points is the North Ireland/Ireland border. Thank you very much, Bianca.

Police, in fact, over the weekend have made several arrests. They are investigating a car bombing that shook Londonderry Saturday night. Police

reported further security incidents today with two vans high-jacked by armed masked men. The bombing is raising fears that sectarian violence

could be revived in North Ireland as tensions over Brexit leave the future uncertain. The Irish border remains one of the biggest sticking points in

Brexit negotiations, so though we are not saying and there is no implication even from authorities on the ground that this violence is

linked to Brexit, an atmosphere of tension could revive some of these old rivalries and perhaps even increase the level of violence. Nic Robertson

is in Londonderry for us tonight. Tell us more about this car bombing because, I mean, if anybody is concerned today about renewed violence as a

result of these difficult negotiations over the border, this was a very tangible example of how badly it could go.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Reporter: Oh, absolutely. Hala, I'm just going to look over my shoulder right now

because what you're seeing here are the police vans moving away from the street. They've had cordoned off almost 48 hours since the car bomb

exploded. They've taken the vehicle away. They've done forensic examination of the area of all the debris. Today the situation in this

city further complicated by two vehicles being high-jacked by masked armed gun men, which is exactly how the gun men got hold of this car bomb that

they planted here on Saturday, they detonated. The police still have some areas of this town cordoned off of people evacuated from their homes. They

did controlled explosions on those vehicles. Yes, absolutely. In this current time where people are concerned and worried about what may happen

to Brexit. Remember, this city is right on the border and the Brexit deal really could -- and the way it goes could affect their lives because many

of them have friends and family just across the border. It's a couple of miles from where I'm standing. They would go and visit them on a daily and

weekly basis. People are very concerned and they're concerned as well within that vacuum of uncertainty. You could have a return to violence.

We had people telling that to us here in the days before even this car bomb went offer.

What they will have heard today from Theresa May in Parliament, they would have heard very clearly her say the one thing she is going to do to try to

change before she goes back to the E.U. again is talk to the D.U.P., those politicians that prop up her slender majority. This country is divided

along nationalist and unionist lines. This would be nationalists. The union want to remain ties with the United Kingdom. The nationalists don't

have a strong voice with Theresa May and that kind of leverage. There would be -- sorry, they fear they might lose out. Sure.

GORANI: One thing that sounds basic -- maybe it's a stupid question, but if Theresa May and those who want a clear Brexit oppose the idea of

ensuring -- an insurance policy there will never be a hard border between the Republic of Ireland and North Ireland, how -- I mean, I guess my

question is why oppose that if you're saying you're against the idea of ever tinkering with the good Friday agreement, which clearly calls for a

free flow of traffic?

ROBERTSON: Tinkering with the Good Friday agreement, even discussing that here, is a highly contentious issue because it was the agreement that ended

the three decades of what people call sectarian violence. I think perhaps why think of it as nationalist unionist violence. When Theresa May says or

there are rumors about tinkering with it that she has put down, the Irish government put down that other MPs are putting down, it does bring back

people's fears that if you tinker with the thing that gave peace to this area, then, therefore, you potentially allow a route for violence to come

back. As I was saying before, it's the unionists who have the biggest leverage over the prime minister. So, if you're in the nationalist

community, you might feel that your aspirations about the Brexit deal aren't going to be fully realized, or may be compromised. Of course, it's

that kind of tension, as you say, that gets to what is bothering people right now.

[14:15:00] GORANI: How do you deliver a Brexit when the Republic of Ireland is part of the E.U., the U.K. will leave the E.U. without a

border, or you put the border and then you risk sectarian violence? It is virtually impossible to deliver.

ROBERTSON: Well, these are the red lines that have caused the E.U. Theresa May may need to think about changing. She made red lines about

coming out of the Customs Union, coming out of the single market, which is what she said the British people asked her to deliver on. That was her

interpretation of the referendum. The compromise positions might be that you would compromise on the customs -- leaving the customs union. You

would compromise on leaving the single market if those compromises were available. But what she's doing at the moment is going in the other

direction, which appears to be having discussions will potentially compromising that future relationship with the Republic of Ireland. I

spoke over the weekend at length with the D.U.P., MP's spokesman in Westminster, Sammy Wilson, about Brexit. He said to me that the European

Union's demands about a backstop on the border actually break the terms of the bell fast agreement. Remember this as well, that the D.U.P. didn't

ever sign up to the Belfast agreement. There was a referendum in the country. More than 80 percent of people turned out. More than 70 percent

of people voted for that agreement. It is very, very highly valued here. But what the D.U.P. are actually saying and I was told over the weekend,

is that they don't feel as committed to the good Friday agreement as perhaps many people in this city would. That's how you get these gaps and

divisions and worries and a pathway to violence.

GORANI: All right. Well, for me either you have a border or you don't have a border, I don't -- you know? One threatens one union, the other

threatens the other. I don't see how you can find a compromise there. But we'll see. Maybe they'll come up with a create i. Solution. Thanks very

much, Nic Robertson, appreciate it.

Israel said it hit several targets in Syria. It was fired at the Golan Heights yesterday. Benjamin Netanyahu said his country will not ignore

such acts of aggression. Russian state media are reporting that at least four Syrian soldiers were killed in the latest strikes. Oren Liebermann is

live in Jerusalem. Oren, it's unusual for Israel to publicize they're hitting targets inside of Syria. Why are they doing it now?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's incredibly rare. In fact, last week was the first time we've seen Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu openly

say right after a strike, yes, this was us. He apparently acknowledged the strike just yesterday shortly after it happened. And even rarer, daytime

strike. The question you ask is why. There is an election coming up. Domestic politics may certainly be at play here. Netanyahu as the prime

minister, the defense minister, and he tries to play himself up as Mr. Security. That may be a part of it. What else? This may be a loud and

clear message to Iran as its forces are established in building themselves up in Syria, a message from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to Iran that

the attacks, the strikes will continue.

GORANI: So, is this related to a new strategy, a new communications strategy? Does it have something to do with internal Israeli politics?

What's behind it?

LIEBERMANN: It could be a combination there as Israel tries to exert some sort of influence on what's happening in Syria through Iran, through

Russia, trying to use what influence it can. That influence, that messaging is Israeli air strikes, whether acknowledged or unacknowledged,

that are carried out in Syria. So, this is Netanyahu's message, saying we're going to keep carrying out those strikes. And he reiterated that

both right after it happened and earlier today.

GORANI: All right. Oren Liebermann live in Jerusalem. Thanks very much.

Lots more to come from growing to growing not so fast. China's economy is sputtering. It could be just the beginning. We're live in the World

Economic Forum in Davos. Also, the story behind this video some say provides an important look at racism and division in America. We'll be

right back.


GORANI: It may be time to buckle up. The world economy could be in for another bumpy ride, according to the I.M.F., the international monetary

fund, which has cut its forecast for global growth. One reason is that the power house China, which reports its weakest growth in nearly three decades

but still at an enviable 6.6 percent, that could be part of it. Other possible risks to the global economy are uncertainty around Brexit and

trade tensions. Not all doom and gloom, though. I.M.F. Chief Christine Lagarde warned leaders to act before it's too late.


CHRISTINE LAGARDE, CHAIRWOMAN IMF: The risk of a sharper decline in global growth has certainly increased. Add to this the uncertainty, the

geopolitical worries, and disappointing long-term growth prospect, and you have an economic picture with a pretty clear message. Address remaining

vulnerabilities and be ready if a serious slow down were to materialize.


GORANI: Lagarde was speaking at the World Economic Forum which is about to kick off in Switzerland. It would be an ideal place to hash all of this

out. But some of the world's most powerful names are no shows. Richard Quest is there and he joins us now. So, what are people saying about

China's slowing growth, which is still -- would be a dream come true for many western nations, Richard?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: Yes, it would be a dream come true, except it's a developing country. So, one expects, one expects

China, India and countries like that to grow in these -- this sort of numbers. To your point, here they're very worried. They are worried.

People will talk about it because, you know, this balance growth of the U.S. growing fast and China being an engine of growth, take China out of

the equation, the U.S. has its own domestic problems, still growing the fastest of all. Europe is likely to slow down. Even talk of a recession,

and you can start to see why there are real concerns at Davos this year. For some years, Hala, Christine Lagarde has been telling people here, fix

the roof while the sun shines. I can tell you, the sun ain't shining anymore and there are plenty of people there who have not done the remedial


GORANI: And what about the fact that all these big-name leaders are not showing up this year, how is that being received?

QUEST: Secretly people are pleased. They're relieved. They're not talking about -- we're not talking about Donald Trump in that sense.

Theresa May, they woven joyed or not. Emmanuel Macron people know he's not coming. He wasn't scheduled. It's not like he pulled out. Emerson, when

you look at the problems in Zimbabwe, it's no surprise. On the big one, on Donald Trump they are sort of saying, look, last year this place lost its

head over Donald Trump, it became more giddy over him being here. This year they want to beat back to business. There is a real feeling here that

there is a slow down to address. There are problems with trade to address.

GORANI: Uh-huh.

[14:25:00] QUEST: But there really does need to be some good thought about bigger issues of industrial revolution, what happens next, and frankly,

Hala, what happens when most of us are facing losing our jobs because of robots doing it for us.

GORANI: All right. Davos debate, U.S./China trade war, global growth as well, of course. And by the way, as well, the top 26 billionaires,

according to Oxfam, I should say, now own as much as the poorest 3.8 billion people. I suspect some of them are at Davos as they are every

year. Thanks very much, Richard Quest, in Davos. We'll see you on "quest for business."

Protests over fuel demonstrations, at least five people have been shot to death in confrontations with security forces since last week. Several

opposition leaders have been arrested as well. David McKenzie has the latest developments on that. Tell us more about what's unfolding in

Zimbabwe. The President having to pull out of Davos.

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that as you were reporting, Hala, rushing back to Zimbabwe, he is expected in the coming hours. The

situation he faces is a crisis for sure. Hundreds have been arrested in those protests. Sometimes indiscriminately according to activists we've

spoken to. There have been serious allegations and eyewitness accounts of people thrown into jail without bail on pretty flimsy grounds. This stems

from an announcement a week ago on a massive fuel increase to stop the lengthy lines forming, to just try, get gas, get petrol in people's cars.

This country is really on the brink economically. And these last few days of stay away, shutdown, people not going to work, and the crackdown by the

military and security forces certainly put Zimbabwe on a tenuous situation, Hala.

GORANI: After Mugabe, there were hopes the country, the economy would improve, people apps lives would improve. I guess that's why we're seeing

so much frustration as well.

MCKENZIE: That's right. People had high hopes. I was there on the streets with people as they were cheering the military during that apparent

coup. Now it's a very different story, of course. The economic situation is hurting people so directly that they do feel on some level the

Zimbabweans I've spoken to, they have blacked out the internet, social media. A high court in Harare, a judge there said it was illegal to block

the internet. They have now since lifted it. It does show the heavy- handed approach during the Mugabe years or decades hasn't changed. And the mantra of Zimbabwe's open for business is what at least one activist told

me, Hala, just a P.R. game. Hala?

GORANI: And these videos that we were showing -- we can put them up again, because they show just how violent things got. We were reporting the death

of at least five protesters, I believe. What's going on there? Are security forces -- obviously they are using very deadly weapons against

these demonstrators.

MCKENZIE: Reporter: Well, they certainly have been using live rounds. That includes military on the streets targeting protesters in what

Zimbabweans call high density areas. These are strong holds of the opposition in Zimbabwe. When people get onto the streets, they are

frequently hit hard by security forces. In this case, you had horrific scenes of gunshot wounds and other terrible wounds from beatings, of people

in hospitals, you know. We had a representative at the hospital today trying to talk to people. Most of them were too afraid to speak to CNN.

But you've seen these horrible videos and images of beatings. And again, as I said, serious injuries because of the security forces are clamping

down. Now, it must be said there was -- there were sporadic looting as well, but the fact that one key aide said to state media, well, this is a

foretaste of things to come. Makes activists and ordinary Zimbabweans afraid. Hala?

[14:30:00] GORANI: Thank you, David McKenzie, for that report. Some say racial tensions of America, that short clip doesn't tell the full story.

When we come back, we'll show you what else was happening during that incident. Stay with us.


[14:30:48] GORANI: Now to an event that captured -- captures much of what divides America these days. African-Americans, Native Americans, and white

Americans all facing off on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington.

One aspect of the protest went viral this weekend as the image of a white teen and an elderly Native American drummer spread over the internet.

There is more to the story. There is a portion of the video that initially wasn't seen online. Here's Sara Sidner.


SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The catholic high school student who comes face to face with a Native American elder in a viral

video is now responding.

In a statement, student Nick Sandmann says the viral video does not reflect the true nature of events when the students arrived at the Lincoln


"When we arrived, we noticed four African-American protesters who were also on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial," he said. "The protesters said

hateful things."

Indeed, a small group of black men who identify as Hebrew Israelites did say hateful things to seemingly everyone around them, including a priest --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's make America great again. A bunch of child molesting (BLEEP)."

SIDNER: And the students.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See how you got these pompous bastards come down here in the middle of a native rally with their dirty ass hat on?

SIDNER: When a black visitor tries to stand up against their rhetoric he faces hate, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got all these dirty ass crackers behind you with a red -- with a red Make America Great hat again on and your coon ass -- you

want to fight your brother.

SIDNER: At first, the Catholic students, there for the March for Life, are still in small numbers, but more and more show up, watching but not

engaging. The small group of men continue taunting them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A bunch of incest babies. A bunch of babies made out of incest.

SINDER: Sandmann says the rhetoric was startling. "Because we were being loudly attacked and taunted in public, a student asked one of our teacher

chaperones for permission to begin school spirit chants to counter the hateful things that were being shouted at our group."

And they do. At one point, a student removes his shirt and the chants drown everything out.

Two minutes later, you hear a drumbeat. That is Nathan Phillips, an Omaha tribe elder, and another drummer. Phillips says it was their attempt to

thwart potential violence.

The kids danced to it. They began chanting, some doing a tomahawk chop which Native Americans consider offensive.

NATHAN PHILLIPS, OMAHA NATIVE AMERICAN ELDER: I realized I had put myself in a really dangerous situation, you know. It's like here is a group of

people who were angry at somebody else and I put myself in front of that.

SIDNER: Phillips, a Vietnam veteran, walks around. Other students avoid him until you see him come face-to-face with a student who has now gone


In his statement, the student says he was the one trying to deescalate the situation, not Phillips.

"I believed that by remaining motionless and calm, I was helping to diffuse the situation. I realized everyone had cameras and that perhaps a group of

adults was trying to provoke a group of teenagers into a larger conflict."

Sandmann has every opportunity to move back, so does Phillips. Neither do. While they faced off, the kids faced more taunting from the Hebrew

Israelite group.

[14:35:08] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a bunch of future school shooters.



SIDNER: While Phillips maintains he felt the kids were mocking him and being rude. Sandmann says it was the adults using hateful words and trying

to provoke the kids, not the other way around.


GORANI: Well, Sara Sidner joins me now live from Los Angeles with more.

So we saw that part one of the video. We'd really only seen that close- upshot of the teen that appeared to be mocking the Native American elder. But he's saying, no, I was smiling to try to diffuse the situation is what

the teen is saying.

SIDNER: Right. That's what the teen is saying, that he was remaining still, and that he was not being the aggressor, that indeed it was the

Native American elder who had come up to him.

And, indeed, the group of Native Americans who were banging on the drums walking towards them, they did come in between the two. What is

interesting to note here, is that Native American elder told us, look, I was trying to diffuse the situation between the black Hebrew Israelites and

this group of students that kept growing and growing and growing. He said it seemed to me it just seemed like it was getting out of control and so I

decided to go in between the two.

So you've got these two different stories. Each person feels the way they feel about it, and you certainly can't change that. That is just the way

it is. They're at odds with how they feel the other treated them.

I do, though, want to mention this. The diocese that oversees the Covington Catholic High School in Kentucky, they have condemned the

students for their actions in that viral video against Native Americans, and particularly the Native American you see there, Nathaniel.

They say, look, that's just not the way they we want our students to act. And they have not changed that as of yet, even after this longer video that

gives way more context to the story.

We do also know now that a congressman from their district, someone who represents the folks that live where the school is, has come out. And

Congressman Thomas Massie has said, look, "In the face of racist and homosexual slurs, the young boys refused to reciprocate or disrespect

anyone, even when taunted by homophobic bigots, which was bewildering to them, they insulted no one."

And he says. "Look, I am proud to represent these boys." So they are getting some people who are saying, look, they didn't do anything wrong.

Where you still have people looking at that video saying, no, that isn't exactly what happened. There is blame to go around. But certainly, it was

the adults from that group calling itself the Hebrew Israelites that kicked off all of this tension and made things very, very ugly at the very

beginning. Hala.

GORANI: Because, I guess it's how you look at it, that teen to some looked like he was smirking, like he was being mocking. The kids around him doing

the tomahawk chop and chanting.

Even if the elder had come up to them and not the other way around, some people are looking at this and saying this doesn't excuse this

disrespectful behavior.

SIDNER: That's right. And so we are waiting to hear from the diocese and hear what they think after all of this has been revealed and sort of the

background of all how this happened has been revealed.

But there are certainly plenty of people who look at this and say, look, the children were being disrespectful. They were not being kind -- but

they are kids, and perhaps it was the adults who created this situation and made it what it was.

And there are a lot of questions about the chaperones that were there with the kids and allowing this to happen, telling them that, yes, it was fine

to go ahead and start chanting their school chant to try and drown out the hateful words coming from the Hebrew Israelites.

There were just four or five people. There are a lot of questions that still need to be answered. And, you know, here in America, everyone is

talking about this, at least if you go on social media. It is the topic of conversation.

GORANI: Oh, around the world, I would say, Sara.


GORANI: Around the world, on social media. Yes, absolutely. It's just really made the rounds.

And I think part of it is because, too, is just such a -- such colorful graphic illustration of some of the tensions we're seeing, not just in

America, but in other parts of the world. And the fact that they're wearing the Make America Great caps, and are therefore in support of the

president and how some people who don't like this president for his rhetoric see them maybe as the younger embodiment.

So I mean, it's got so many layers to it. I think that's possibly why we're analyzing this in such detail.

SIDNER: Absolutely, Hala. You hit the nail on the head. It is the context of what's going on in America and around the world today.

[14:40:01] This conflict that we keep seeing over and over that's happening in politics, it's also happening in the streets, and some will argue it's

happening in homes, in schools, in places of worship where usually things were pretty calm.

A lot of people can't talk about these things without getting really angry and that is what you're seeing play out here. It was the perfect storm and

the perfect picture to make people react.

GORANI: All right, Sara Sidner, thanks very much for that report. Appreciate it.

Now, a story about a person you won't see wearing a Make America Great again hat. U.S. Senator Kamala Harris, a prominent critic of the Trump

administration. Today, she announced she's running for president.

The California Democrat is joining a growing list of 2020 hopefuls, Senators Elizabeth Warren and Kirsten Gillibrand have each formed

committees to explore their chances. Four other candidates have already announced their campaigns and the field will only grow in the coming

months. Several key democrats have been officially declared their plans yet.

Kamala Harris is a popular figure with many democrats. CNN's Kyung Lah has more now on the woman who could be a major player in the race.


SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D), CALIFORNIA: That's why I'm running for president of the United States.

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Senator Kamala Harris announcing her presidential campaign's core principles on Martin Luther

King Day.

HARRIS: Truth, justice, decency, equality, freedom, democracy -- these aren't just words. They're the values we as Americans cherish and they're

all on the line now.

I intend to fight for truth, and transparency, and trust. I intend to fight.

LAH: California's junior senator is notable, both in biography --



LAH: -- and her 2-year tenure in the Senate.

Supporters hail Harris's rapid-fire questioning in the Senate, from Supreme Court nominees --

HARRIS: Can you think of any laws that give the government the power to make decisions about the male body?

BRETT KAVANAUGH, THEN-CANDIDATE FOR SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not aware -- I'm not thinking of any right now, Senator.

LAH: -- to Justice Department officials --


HARRIS: Yes or no, sir?

ROSENSTEIN: He has the full independence and is authorized by those regulations. And, Senator, like I said --

HARRIS: Are you willing to do, as has been done before --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would the -- would the senator suspend --

LAH: -- making more than one of them squirm.

JEFF SESSIONS, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not able to be rushed this fast. It makes me nervous.

HARRIS: A lot of the work I've done has been inspired --

LAH: The native of Oakland says she embodies everything California stands for and what the president is against.

She is the daughter of immigrants -- a father from Jamaica and a mother from southern India, both active in the civil rights era.

HARRIS: And so it was about fighting for justice. It was about fighting to make sure that all people had a say in their future.

LAH: Harris graduated from Howard University, returning to Oakland to become a prosecutor. As a San Francisco district attorney, Harris crafted

innovative programs to reform the criminal justice system at a time when other prosecutors were taking a tough on crime approach.

And despite political pressure from her own party, she refused to seek the death penalty against the killer of a police officer, sticking to a core

campaign pledge and personal belief.

HARRIS: I am humbled to be chosen to be the next attorney general of the state of California.

LAH: But she would defend the death penalty as California's first black woman attorney general -- still personally opposed but upholding state law,

coming under fire from activists.

HARRIS: I now declare you spouses for life.

LAH: When the Supreme Court allowed marriage equality to stand in California, she officiated the first legal same-sex marriages in 2013.

HARRIS: Any day that justice is delayed, I would suggest justice is denied.

LAH: All part of her pledge to be a progressive prosecutor.

HARRIS: It is a false choice to suggest that one is either in favor of the Second Amendment or in favor of reasonable gun safety rules. We can be


LAH: That history is both an asset and an opening for attack.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about black people?

HARRIS: We are so great and --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about us? What about black people, Kamala?

HARRIS: We ourselves --

LAH: A question that may follow her to the campaign as it did on her book tour. Is it possible to be both a top cop and a reformer for progressives?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you say to those who hear that and read that and still say well, you're anti-police?

HARRIS: Well, it's just not true.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, I had to ask.

HARRIS: And that's why I say we've got to talk truth. It's just not true -- it's not true. It's not true, period.


GORANI: Kamala Harris, they're announcing she is running for president.

Still to come tonight, a millionaire businessman says he hopes animals are treated better than he was while he was jailed in Japan.

[14:45:00] New questions about Japanese justice, straight ahead.


GORANI: Former Nissan CEO, Carlos Ghosn says he will respect any conditions, if he is granted bail.

Now, remember, he's been in jail in Japan since late last year, accused of financial misconduct. His case has drawn a lot of attention to the

country's justice system.

CNN's Will Ripley talked with another high-profile businessman who spent months behind bars there.


WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: If anyone knows what ex- Nissan Chairman, Carlos Ghosn, might be going through, it's Mark Karpeles. Like Ghosn, Karpeles is a French businessman in Japan who made a fortune

and lost his freedom, accused of financial misconduct.

MARK KARPELES, CEO, MT. GOX: Well, I wouldn't want this to anyone.

RIPLEY: You wouldn't wish it on anybody.


RIPLEY: Even your worst enemy.

KARPELES: Even my worst enemy. Even humanity's worst enemy.

RIPLEY: Karpeles was a multimillionaire by age 30, owner and CEO Mt. Gox, which was the largest bitcoin exchange in the world. Until nearly half a

billion dollars of the digital currency vanished, a crime that remains unsolved.

After his company went bankrupt, Japanese police charged Karpeles with embezzling $3 million and with breach of trust, the same charge as Ghosn.

KARPELES: There is a very big feeling of powerlessness. Whatever you do, there's nothing you can do.

RIPLEY: Karpeles, who's repeatedly denied the charges, kept detailed notes of nearly 12 months in Japanese custody. He says police interrogated him

for 50 days straight, up to eight hours a day, without his lawyer. It may sound mind-boggling to many, but this is perfectly in line with Japanese


KARPELES: The more you try to deny being guilty, the harsher it gets.

RIPLEY: Closing arguments in his trial ended last month. The verdict is expected in March. Karpeles continues to insist he's innocent. But legal

experts say more than 99 percent of people charged with a crime in Japan are eventually found guilty.

Temple University Professor Jeff Kingston calls that deeply troubling.

JEFF KINGSTON, PROFESSOR, TEMPLE UNIVERSITY: That system of hostage justice, I think, does not bear scrutiny where they keep people who are

indicted in detention as long as it takes to coerce a confession out of them. That's what explains the 99 percent conviction rate.

RIPLEY: International attorney Shuji Yamaguchi says that criticism may come from a misunderstanding of Japanese culture. He says Japan's system

keeps people safe. The country has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

SHUJI YAMAGUCHI, ATTORNEY, OKABE & YAMAGUCHI: Our system supporting our society and still crime rate is going down every year. So, I think our

system works very well.

RIPLEY: Do you see things changing here in Japan anytime soon?

[14:50:09] YAMAGUCHI: In near future, no, I think.

RIPLEY: Ghosn's wife wrote a letter slamming the Japanese justice system as Draconian. "No human being should be detained under conditions so harsh

if their only plausible purpose is to coerce a confession," she said.

The Tokyo prosecutor's office tells CNN they don't make the law, they enforce it. And the investigation and interrogation are conducted

appropriately, in accordance with the law. Prosecutors say they would never prolong the detention to harass suspects.

When asked about the conditions in detention, they said, "We believe they're treated fairly." As proof, Tokyo detention center officials

invited the media inside.

If you could pick one word to describe it.

KARPELES: I think loneliness.

RIPLEY: Loneliness.


RIPLEY: Karpeles spent seven months in solitary confinement before he was granted bail. He remembers every detail of his six square-meter cell. He

says he was forced to sit upright in a corner for some 10 hours a day.

KARPELES: I hope animals are treated better than this.

RIPLEY: You hope animals are treated better than you were.


RIPLEY: Treatment he says Ghosn may have to endure for a very long time. Waiting for prosecutors to build their case, knowing all too well the odds

are not in his favor.

Will Ripley, CNN, Tokyo.


GORANI: More to come, including new rules that will change how you use WhatsApp.


GORANI: Well, a lot of us like to use WhatsApp to message the people in our lives. But if you like sharing messages with a very large group,

you'll run into some limits.

Starting today, WhatsApp has announced that users can now forward a message to only five chats at a time. They say it's to crackdown on the spread of

false information. They tested it out in India a few months ago. Now, it's gone worldwide.

Let's bring in Samuel Burke with that.

So this is to prevent fake news. Also in India, we had instances of people essentially lynching or organizing groups and angering large groups of

people. And it would end up in terrible violence.

SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS AND TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. Hala, I would argue that this is maybe the biggest change that's ever been made to

an entire social media or social communication platform in the wake of realizing that fake news can have -- and I'm talking about actually fake

news, of course -- can have literally deadly consequences, like we saw in India. People being accused of being child abductors and then lynchings,

taking their lives. So they're changing the limit from 20.

Right now, you can only send a message 20 times, down to five. But if you look at the numbers, I'll just put it up on the screen. That still means

that you could send that to a WhatsApp group, for example, a WhatsApp group can have 256 users. You can reach a maximum of 1,280 people directly.

Now, previously, it was more than 5,000, so you could argue it's a positive step in the right direction. But, of course, each one of those people you

reach, they can send to another 1,280 people regardless of whether the information is true or false that those people are sharing.

GORANI: So these are videos, photos, news stories, fake news. They're trying to limit the circulation. But as you said, you could still use it -

- reach about a thousand people with a single story.

[14:55:02] BURKE: I think the bigger picture of what we see here is social media started out close friends, just on Facebook with each other, WhatsApp

with the family group, for example. And it's become so big that they're trying to take the bubble and make it a lot smaller. Whether it's Facebook

with the fake news links, or in this images that are often shared in places like India.

GORANI: I'm not sure I've ever forwarded to more than five people at a time. But I mean, I guess people -- sometimes I get -- some of my friends

send a joke or whatever. I imagine I sent to more than a few. Now, e-scooters and you have it here, there are reports that e-scooters could become self-driving? I just can't -- this dystopian future we're

looking at.

BURKE: And you know I was just at consumer electronics show for your show reporting on e-scooters, left, right and center. You saw them at Ford's


And now, we have reports that over the weekend Uber announced at a robotics conference that they're looking to make self-driving e-scooters and e-

bikes. Balancing, I think it's even hard enough.

GORANI: How do you even do that?

BURKE: For humans, it's hard enough. But they're looking to do this. The real question is why, and it's so that the e-scooters -- remember these are

part of sharing programs that we're seeing all over cities from Europe to the United States. So the scooters can drive themselves back to the

battery charging locations they have so --

GORANI: What could possibly go wrong?

BURKE: What could go wrong? So the batteries can be switched out there, they can be recharged or if Hala Gorani wants her e-scooter at her door in

London, the scooter can just come to you at your house. Imagine looking out the window and just seeing a scooter go by with nobody on it.

GORANI: Because we have one here and you need to balance it. So I don't know also how that would work. These are reports -- already with self-

driving cars, there have been some issues.

BURKE: Exactly. Someone asked me today, how can you guarantee that a self-driving scooter won't hit somebody? Well, of course, if you can't

guarantee a self-driving car where we have seen deadly consequences for that, of course we don't know about e-scooters. And this is just the

beginning of it.

I just want to put up on the screen what Uber said about this in the past. They're actually hiring. It looks like. I'll put out a link on my Twitter

account, in case you're interested in a job, anybody. We do have job services here on HALA GORANI TONIGHT. "The New Mobilities team at Uber is

exploring ways to improve safety rider experience and operational efficiency of our shared electric scooters and bicycles through the app

location of sensing and robotic technologies."

So it wouldn't just have to be self-driving scooters. If you're on a scooter, maybe they can have sensors to tell you, oh, you're about to hit a

bump or you're going too fast. This type of technology that's already being incorporated into cars.

GORANI: Right. And when I was in Paris, the e-scooters are everywhere and people use them on the streets. And they don't wear helmets. I mean --

BURKE: We don't have to wear a helmet if there's no driver on the self- dreaming scooter.

GORANI: That's right. Or maybe they could be just use a floating helmet or I don't know. In a few years, I think we'll be living in a very

different world with just everything self-driving everywhere.

Well, we're done. We are done. Thanks for watching.

BURKE: Nice to see you, Hala.

GORANI: Thank you. Nice to see you.

BURKE: Have a good show or whatever is left of it. Ciao.

GORANI: Try not to -- try not to fall over. There you go. Bye, Samuel.

Bye. Thanks for watching, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is in Davos. We'll be right back.