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New Day
Senator Mitch McConnell Discusses His Legacy In New York Times Magazine Profile; Do Michigan Voters Blame President Trump For Government Shutdown?; CNN Reality Check: How The Partial Government Shutdown Is Making America Less Safe; President Trump Recognizes Venezuelan Opposition Leader As The Nation's President; Name Game For 2020 Democratic Presidential Candidates; President Trump Will Deliver State Of The Union Address After Government Shutdown Ends. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired January 24, 2019 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:30:00] CHARLES HOMANS, POLITICS EDITOR, NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE: -- and Speaker Pelosi. And I think he thought that basically, the less seen of him probably the better for him. Obviously, he's reached a point where that's not really tenable anymore.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And, I mean, could there be a bigger difference in style -- and we'll get to this -- between Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump? It's so interesting that they have become allied and work together in this way because he -- Mitch McConnell -- avoids the limelight, as you say.
But let's talk about what he's gotten in these past two years. How is he the big beneficiary of this Trump presidency?
HOMANS: Well, I think if you look back to the last year -- the last couple of years of the Obama presidency, McConnell started in motion this process of really keeping up on a lot of judicial seats -- a lot of federal judge seats on the hope that there would be a Republican president who could fill them. And it just so happened that that Republican president ended up being Donald Trump.
And so, he was invested very early on in sort of the effort to coach Trump in his view of the judiciary that he kind of collaborated with these conservative judicial activists on. And so that's been the big one. And he's been able to fill -- Trump has been able to fill more federal judiciary seats than I think any modern president and McConnell has played a very strong role in that.
CAMEROTA: Eighty-three.
HOMANS: Right.
CAMEROTA: Eighty-three conservative judges or at least conservative- endorsed judges. That -- and two Supreme Court justices. They hit the jackpot. If that was Mitch McConnell's plan for years, he hit the jackpot in these two years.
HOMANS: I think that's right. And I think he points to his decision to block President Obama from appointing Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court as the most consequential thing he's ever done. That's how he described it to me.
And I think he's right. I think that people who both like and dislike him would probably agree on that point. That was really a critical moment in terms of strengthening Trump's legacy. He didn't realize it was Trump's legacy he was strengthening at the time but that was the consequence of it.
CAMEROTA: So, in terms of their style -- as I said, they're quite different -- and the question is do they like each other? You had a funny passage in the piece that I'll just read.
"When I asked Elaine Chao, who is Trump's secretary of Transportation and McConnell's wife of 26 years, if Trump and McConnell liked each other, she was silent for a full four seconds" -- which is a long time -- before replying, 'You'll have to ask the president that, and you'll have to ask the leader that.' When I did ask McConnell, all he said was, 'Yeah, we get along fine.'"
HOMANS: And I asked this question to a lot of people close to McConnell and virtually nobody would hazard a positive answer to that question. It was usually some variation of what Sec. Chao told me.
CAMEROTA: Not a ringing endorsement.
HOMANS: No, and I think he makes no secret of them being very different people. And he also makes no secret of him, I think at times, not being a huge fan of the president. But it's -- he's put himself in a position where he needed to work with whoever the Republican president was and he, I think, has been pragmatic about that.
CAMEROTA: And again, he's getting what he wants. I find this piece so illuminating because you understand what motivates Mitch McConnell. So, while he may perhaps have to hold his nose at some of the president's style or comments, he's getting exactly what he wants. And so, that's why he's willing to go along with all of this.
HOMANS: I think that's true. And I think he has not necessarily faced up to all the consequences of having done that, which I explore some in the piece. But I think it's -- he has understood all along that there's sort of things that he sees himself as being able to work with the president on. And then, there are things where his general mode is to sort of ignore them to best of his ability.
CAMEROTA: One of the big headlines from the piece is that Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan, previous Speaker of the House, had or have a plan in the event that President Trump attempts to fire Robert Mueller.
What is that plan?
HOMANS: I don't know. Neither of them would tell me. It was -- for all I know it's a very strongly-worded statement they have kept -- you know, they kept in a sealed box somewhere.
But the -- but, you know, they did -- Ryan did tell me that they had discussed the scenario in which Trump decided to fire Mueller and had planned out what they would do in that situation. And when I had pressed him on the question of what the plan was, he told me he would answer me with another question, which was has Mueller been fired yet? No.
So, you know, implying that whatever they did was effective. Do we know that it's effective? No, we don't.
CAMEROTA: Here -- I'll just read the portion of it because I think it's so interesting for people.
"When I spoke with Paul Ryan, I asked if he and McConnell had planned for a scenario in which Trump decided to fire Mueller. 'Yes,' Ryan replied unhesitatingly. 'What was the plan?' I asked. 'I'll just leave it at that,' he said.
'Did we discuss it? Yes, we discussed it. Yes, we were prepared if that actually would have happened.'
A minute later, he added, 'I can answer that with a question. Has the guy been fired? No, he's continuing on.' These were the proverbial adults in the room; they had this."
What did McConnell say when you asked him?
HOMANS: Well, I asked McConnell. I said Paul Ryan told me that you guys had a plan and I'm curious what that plan was. And he sort of looked at me and said, "I bet you're curious" and then laughed a little bit. So --
CAMEROTA: Sphinxlike.
HOMANS: Yes.
CAMEROTA: Wow. All right, well, the piece is "Mitch McConnell Got Everything He Wanted. But at What Cost?" Everybody can read it in "The New York Times Magazine."
Charles Homans, thanks so much. Great to talk to you.
HOMANS: Thanks for having me.
CAMEROTA: John --
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The record-breaking government shutdown is making everybody less safe. So, how real is the danger?
[07:35:00] An eye-opening reality check straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: Voters in Michigan helped put Donald Trump in the White House in 2016. Now, in the midst of the longest government shutdown ever, are they standing by the president?
CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich joins us now live from New Baltimore, Michigan with what you've learned -- Vanessa.
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John.
Yes, we're in a northern suburb of Detroit, a place that fell on hard times during the recession. But in 2015, around the same time that the president announced his candidacy, the local economy here started to pick up and the president picked up a lot of supporters. This county, Macomb County, went on to help elect the president.
So, we wanted to come back to town to places like the Pit Stop Diner right here in New Baltimore to see how people were feeling as we enter day 34 of the shutdown.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YURKEVICH (voice-over): There's a split of opinion on lane 10.
TROY SEARS, MACOMB COUNTY, MICHIGAN RESIDENT, TRUMP SUPPORTER: She's not taking the right side about being a Trump supporter.
YURKEVICH: Troy is a Trump supporter. His bowling partner, Chelsea, is not.
SEARS: He's not scared. He'll get jobs done that we need to get done, you know. He's not afraid to stand up for our country.
CHELSEA CLARK, MACOMB COUNTY, MICHIGAN RESIDENT, DOES NOT SUPPORT PRESIDENT TRUMP: I'm kind of terrified to tell people that I'm not a Trump supporter because they go crazy.
[07:40:02] YURKEVICH (on camera): You obviously -- you don't agree?
CLARK: No, no, not at all -- no. I feel like the shutdown has definitely lasted too long.
YURKEVICH (voice-over): The pair are bowling with their children at the local alley in Macomb County.
Obama won here twice, but Trump flipped the county in 2016, winning by more than 11 points.
But what the president has done recently has both of them unhappy.
YURKEVICH (on camera): Do you think the shutdown is worth the wall?
SEARS: No, I do not think that. I think it's a waste of time and money, and it's causing way more problems than it's helping anything.
CLARK: It's definitely not worth a wall for the government to be completely shut down for this.
YURKEVICH (voice-over): But just down the road is Robert Rasch, who works in the auto industry and also runs a family clothing business. He says both jobs are doing well thanks to hard work and to President Trump. ROBERT RASCH, MACOMB COUNTY, MICHIGAN RESIDENT, TRUMP SUPPORTER: We see growth in the United States, we see growth here in our town. This used to be the home -- the Motor City -- the capital of tool and dye in the tool and dye industry -- the automotive industry -- and it's starting to finally come back.
YURKEVICH: And he likes that the president isn't backing down on his wall, even if it means shutting down the government.
RASCH: You have to do what you have to do. It's something that is necessary. To come to the United States, you have to come the right way.
YURKEVICH (on camera): Do you think that there is anything that the president could do that would make you shy away from him at all?
RASCH: No, because you know what? I am -- I've only been around 54 years but I just think to take that position, God bless him.
YURKEVICH: Is there anything the president could do put him in a better light in your eyes?
MARK ASTOR, MACOMB COUNTY, MICHIGAN RESIDENT, DOES NOT SUPPORT PRESIDENT TRUMP: Leave, step down.
YURKEVICH (voice-over): In another part of the county over a plate of goulash, Democrat Mark Astor is eager to talk about the shutdown.
YURKEVICH (on camera): Do you see this being resolved anytime soon?
ASTOR: I don't. You know, like I say, he's that stubborn and I'm glad Schumer and Pelosi are pushing it so hard to him. I really am.
YURKEVICH: Do you think that they should give in at some point?
ASTOR: No, I wouldn't, just for what Trump has said even in his campaign. All along he was saying Mexico's going to pay for it, Mexico is going to pay for it. Have at it, bud. Have at it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YURKEVICH: And as this shutdown continues, John and Alisyn, it's local businesses here in town that are stepping in to help federal workers. A local yoga and trampoline studio are offering free classes. And the county hospital is offering to waive free -- to waive their copays for federal workers -- John and Alisyn.
BERMAN: Yes, some 800,000 people missing a second paycheck this week.
Vanessa Yurkevich on the ground near Detroit. Thanks so much, Vanessa.
CAMEROTA: All right, it would seem an obvious conclusion that not paying TSA screeners, Coast Guards, FBI agents -- it would make us less safe. But exactly how much less safe are we today?
Senior political analyst John Avlon has our reality check. What's the answer, John?
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, let me start you off with a quote, Ali. Quote, "It's always good to be a part of history, but this is a very negative part of history."
So sayeth Donald Trump after Nancy Pelosi told the president that he can't give the State of the Union in front of Congress right now. But he could have been referring to America's longest shutdown, which is now in its 34th day.
Look, it's already estimated to have cost more than the wall in terms of lost economic growth in the country, and every day we see more examples of this self-inflicted stupidity.
But here's one that really hammers it home. The State Department just canceled a multinational conference about border security due to our shutdown about border security. That's right.
The conference, meant to bring together border patrol experts from 85 countries to discuss small things like stopping weapons of mass destruction from moving around, is off for now.
And in the once friendly skies, the pilots, air traffic controllers, and flight attendants -- they've had just about enough. Their unions releasing a statement saying quote, "We cannot even calculate the level of risk currently at play nor predict the point at which the entire system will break."
They point out that air traffic controller staffing is at a 30-year low and nearly 20 percent are now retirement-eligible causing some to ask whether they should stay in the game at all. And that could cause a cascading problem given that training newbies takes up to about four years.
Back inside the terminal, the rate of TSA screener sickouts recently hit 10 percent. And the agency had to plead with 250 of its people -- not being paid, mind you -- to shift around the nation to where they're needed most.
NTSB, which looks into accidents from the skies to the rails, says it hasn't investigated 87 of them since the shutdown began. And that could cause more problems because NTSB says, quote, "Important evidence is being lost and this evidence could prevent future accidents and save countless lives."
That's not all. The commandant of the Coast Guard put out a personal message saying, quote, "It's unacceptable that Coast Guard men and women have to rely on food pantries and donations to get through day- to-day life as servicemembers."
[07:45:05] The FBI Agents Association released a 72-page report detailing the ways it's harder to keep us all safe.
For example, remember how MS-13 is a big part of President Trump's push for the wall? Well, the FBI can no longer pay for translators and informants to track that gang, stopping some investigations in their tracks.
To add one final note to the desperate absurdity of it all, the president's former chief of staff John Kelly, who was working the West Wing when the shutdown began, just signed a letter with other former Homeland Security chiefs, calling the shutdown unconscionable. And, God forbid a tragedy does occur while we have a crippled capacity to respond.
Look, even the president's former chief of staff knows this shut show is making America less safe and less secure, and security is the entire reason President Trump says he shut down the government in the first place.
And that's your reality check.
BERMAN: With, I might add, like a difficulty level of 14. You stuck the landing --
CAMEROTA: On the way (ph).
BERMAN: -- on the shut show, John.
AVLON: I appreciate that.
BERMAN: I was truly concerned about that.
CAMEROTA: Hashtag shut show.
So, when will Congress start to feel the urgency? You know everything.
AVLON: I mean, look, they really should be. The workers are getting absolutely rolled over.
But here's one modest proposal. You know, given the TSA slowdown, I've got a sneaking suspicion if that were directed a little bit more at Reagan National in Dulles and congressmen were inconvenienced, that might create a sense of urgency. A small scintilla of the pressure the federal families are feeling right now.
CAMEROTA: Scintilla shut show.
That is -- that is great. That's a great suggestion and hopefully, people are listening, John. Thank you very much for that reality check.
All right, U.S. diplomats have been hours to get out of Venezuela. The White House decision that has the South American country cutting ties, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:50:57] CAMEROTA: U.S. diplomats in Venezuela have less than 72 hours to leave the country. President Nicolas Maduro ordering them out after President Trump officially recognized a rival opposition leader as Venezuela's legitimate president. Stefano Pozzebon is live from Caracas with the latest developments. What's happening?
STEFANO POZZEBON, JOURNALIST: Yes, Alisyn, today is the day after the historical moments that we've lived through here yesterday.
We really saw history rolling in front of our eyes when Juan Guaido swore himself in. Juan Guaido is the president of Parliament -- the leader of Congress which is, right now, controlled by the anti-Maduro opposition. And right now, there are two different people claiming to be the president of Venezuelan.
The fact that the United States have thrown their support with all the diplomatic, political, and economic implications that can mean -- the fact that they have thrown their support behind Juan Guaido with President Donald Trump recognizing Guaido as the interim president of Venezuela has a lot of implications.
And by the way, to be ordered by Nicolas Maduro to clear the embassy by 72 hours. The U.S. have responded it will not intend to clear the embassy because they recognize the authority of the president, Juan Guaido. And as such, Juan Guaido hasn't requested them to leave. So, they're saying we are here to stay and that can lead to a very escalating situation, Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: Indeed. And so, Stefano, how's the rest of the world reacting to this?
POZZEBON: We're seeing that Maduro's historical allies like Turkey, Iran, Russia, have thrown their support to Nicolas Maduro. But the rest of the Latin America community -- the neighbors of Venezuela -- and we're talking about Colombia, Brazil, Argentina, Chile -- they're all recognizing the leadership and the new interim presidency of Juan Guaido.
And, Venezuela finds itself now increasingly isolated within the regional community here of Latin America, receiving only this support of traditional allies such as Cuba and Nicaragua to the Maduro cause -- Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: Stefano Pozzebon, thank you very much for the important update from Venezuela.
BERMAN: We have a new development in that disturbing case in an Arizona health care facility.
A nurse identified as 36-year-old Nathan Sutherland is now charged with impregnating a woman who was in a vegetative state. She unexpectedly gave birth last month. Sutherland was caring for her at Hacienda Healthcare in Phoenix.
A court order compelled Sutherland to provide a DNA sample to investigators which police say matched the baby.
The health care facility fired Sutherland but released a statement saying before he was hired in 2012, Sutherland underwent extensive background checks.
CAMEROTA: Well, a company that donated $25,000 in reward money for the return of Wisconsin teenager Jayme Closs now says it will give her the money now that she has been found alive.
Hormel Foods -- Hormel Foods, which employed Closs's mother and father, are citing the 13-year-old's bravery and strength in their decision to give her the money. Jayme escaped captivity earlier this month, nearly three months after she disappeared.
A 21-year-old man is in custody accused of kidnapping her and fatally shooting her parents.
BERMAN: Hundreds of students crushed after they thought they got into a certain college. It turns out the University of South Florida St. Petersburg mistakenly sent out 430 acceptance letters due to human error. The college immediately issued an apology and reached out to the affected students to discuss possible pathways for admission in the future.
The school is also looking into ways to make sure nothing like this happens again. One way might be to not send out acceptance letters to people who shouldn't be getting them.
CAMEROTA: Right --
BERMAN: I'm just saying.
CAMEROTA: -- don't make that mistake.
BERMAN: Don't make that mistake.
CAMEROTA: That would be a start.
BERMAN: That's a starting point.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
All right, the list of Democrats running for president in 2020 keeps growing. It includes some hard-to-pronounce names and one that is nearly impossible, we're told.
Here's Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There's a new Democrat looking to run for president if only we could pronounce his name.
[07:55:02] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God. Pete Butt-e-egg.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pete Butisheg.
MOOS: You try saying the name of South Bend, Indiana's mayor --
MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), SOUTH BEND, INDIANA, 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm Pete Buttigieg.
Buttigieg, but around South Bend, they just call me Mayor Pete and that's fine with me.
MOOS: What isn't fine is that so many of the Democratic presidential wannabes have names that trip you up.
Don't call him Jool-iun Castro.
JULIAN CASTRO (D), 2020 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: No, my name is Julian.
MOOS: -- and don't do what Whoopi did when she introduced --
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, HOST, ABC "THE VIEW": Kamala Harris.
MOOS: Oops, accent on the wrong syllable.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's Kamala.
GOLDBERG: Kamala.
HARRIS: Just -- yes, just think of like a comma and add a la.
MOOS: Somebody forgot to tell right-wing critics Diamond and Silk.
INEITHA LYNNETE HARDAWAY (DIAMOND), RIGHT-WING CRITIC: You know, Camilla should be ashamed of herself.
HERNEITHA ROCHELLE RICHARDSON (SILK), RIGHT-WING CRITIC: That's right.
HARDAWAY: Shame on Camilla Harris.
MOOS: It's really a shame when both names are tricky.
JOY BEHAR, HOST, ABC "THE VIEW": Please welcome Sen. Christian Gillibrand.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How often do people call you Christen Gillibrand?
SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D-NY), 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A lot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I know her. That's Kristen Gillibrand.
MOOS (on camera): Kirsten.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my goodness.
MOOS (voice-over): And then, there's this guy whose childhood name stuck.
REP. BETO O'ROURKE (D), TEXAS: Hey, there, this is Beto O'Rourke.
MOOS: But his political foes delight in saying Bato rather than Beto.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: Whereas, my opponent, Bato O'Rourke --
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Referred to as Bato.
MOOS: Campaigns sometimes go along with the joke.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we're gonna get me one of them Bato signs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE, UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Beto.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not Camalla.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not Camilla.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's Kamala.
MOOS: Mayor Pete's husband offered some tips, like Budda-judge, to help pronounce this Maltese name that translates to lord of the poultry.
But even easy names get mangled. Take Bernie Sanders.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And, Bernie Sandwiches --
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, CBS "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": Yes.
MOOS: Sometimes a name is more than people can bite off.
Jeanne Moos --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jeanne Moose -- Moose.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Moo -- Jeanne Moo?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mooz.
MOOS: -- CNN --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's Moose, right? Moose, Moose.
MOOS: -- New York.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got me on that. Who's she? That's you?
MOOS: She's standing right in front of you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's you, right?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CAMEROTA: That is so great. She knows of what she speaks.
BERMAN: Can I just say, America is hard to pronounce names. I think it's terrific that there are so many hard-to-pronounce names when we're talking about people who lead this country.
CAMEROTA: Thank you, Mr. Ernest -- Mr. Ernesto. BERMAN: I mean it. No, no, I think it's true. Sorry to bring everyone down here. Sorry to bring everyone down here.
CAMEROTA: How do you say Mayor Pete's last name?
BERMAN: Oh, I used to avoid it. I'd say mayor of South Bend. I mean, that's clearly the way to get around that. That is the responsible thing.
CAMEROTA: Fantastic.
BERMAN: All right, the State of the Union is off but the government shutdown is still on. Will there be any progress in Washington? NEW DAY continues now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: President Trump announcing a delay of the State of the Union after Speaker Pelosi rescinded his invitation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pelosi is the new sheriff in town and it's kind of a caustic mix.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president put on a reasonable, compassionate proposal to move the ball forward.
PAUL RINALDI, PRESIDENT, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS ASSOCIATION: The biggest toll is the human toll. I'm seeing routine mistakes. The government needs to open now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is the most clear abuse of power that you can imagine and he shouldn't be threatened out of testifying.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, HOST, "STATE OF THE UNION": It's OK to go after the father, then?
RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Now -- of course, it is if the father-in-law is a criminal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's had an impact. It is absolutely worthy of examination by the special prosecutor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.
CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, January 24th, 8:00 in the east.
We have a full table because we have breaking news. While you were sleeping, the battle over the State of the Union took a dramatic turn. The president has conceded to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. He now says he will not deliver the State of the Union address until the government shutdown is over after Nancy Pelosi had disinvited him.
The president tweeting, quote, "As the shutdown was going on, Nancy Pelosi asked me to give the State of the Union address -- I agreed. She then changed her mind because of the shutdown, suggesting a later date. This is her prerogative. I will do the address when the shutdown is over.
I am not looking for an alternative venue for the State of the Union address because there is no venue that can compete with the history, tradition, and importance of the House chamber. I look forward to giving a great State of the Union address in the near future."
BERMAN: It was a solid read.
CAMEROTA: Thank you.
BERMAN: All right. Sources tell CNN the White House was caught off guard by Speaker Pelosi's move to revoke his invitation. And the president is increasingly mystified his tactics have failed to turn the tables on Democrats.
As this is going on, 800,000 federal workers -- they will miss a second paycheck this week.
Two measures to end the shutdown -- they will go up for a vote in the Senate but they are expected to fail today.
Joining us now, Dana Bash, CNN chief political correspondent; Krystal Ball, the president of The People's House Project; and, Joshua Green, CNN political analyst and national correspondent for "Bloomberg Businessweek."
Dana, I want to know what changed. Yesterday, the president called in the White House press pool to stay I'm looking for an alternative location, to threaten Nancy Pelosi. And then last night while we were all sleeping, for some reason he caved.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, we're hearing from the White House -- I heard from a source I know or Abby Phillip heard as well is that he is telling his advisers and was last night --
