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FBI Arrests Former Trump Campaign Associate Roger Stone; Analysts Examine Indictment of Roger Stone; FBI Arrests Longtime Trump Associate Roger Stone; Interview with Senator Michael Bennet of Colorado. Aired 8-8:30a ET
Aired January 25, 2019 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Our cameras were there for the FBI raid at 6:00 or so this morning. They knocked on the door. They went in, they took him into custody. Listen to it all take place.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: FBI, open the door. FBI.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Roger Stone was then taken into custody. The indictment says that Stone sought stolen e-mails from WikiLeaks that could damage Donald Trump's opponents at the direction of, quote, a senior Trump campaign official. So let's get right to CNN's Sara Murray with all of the breaking details. So what is the big headline from that very dramatic rude awakening Roger Stone got before dawn this morning.
SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We now see Roger Stone, he has been arrested. He's expected to appear in court in Fort Lauderdale later this morning. And I can tell you, John and Alisyn, that he and his lawyers were convinced as of last night when I was talking to them that this was not coming today. They did not believe that if Roger Stone were to be arrested that he would be taken into custody in this manner. We have not seen this from other people who have been targets of this investigation. So this is stunning the way it was done.
In the indictment he's facing seven counts at this point. One is for obstruction of justice, five are for making false statements, and one is for witness tampering. And this has a lot to do with Roger's testimony to the House Intelligence Committee. That is where the obstruction of justice charge comes from. That is where the making false statements charge comes from.
The witness tampering has to do with Roger Stone's interactions with a guy named Randy Credico, who is a New York radio host, the person that Roger Stone insisted was his back channel to WikiLeaks and Julian Assange. That is something Randy Credico has denied. But they lay out in this indictment the various ways that prosecutors say that Roger Stone tried to essentially intimidate Randy Credico to change testimony, to change his version of events so it would match what Roger Stone told the House Intelligence Committee. Now, Roger Stone's lawyers haven't commented so far this morning. As
I mentioned, they are shocked that he was taken into custody. But Roger and his attorneys have previously said that there was no collusion, that Roger did not try to obstruct justice. And I think that they will point to this indictment and say these are not charges of collusion. But it is also worth noticing as you read through, it does talk about his contacts with the Trump campaign about what was about to come from WikiLeaks. Back to you guys.
CAMEROTA: Sara Murray, thank you very much for all of this breaking news reporting. So this CNN team was on the ground for this dramatic raid on Roger Stone's Fort Lauderdale home, or at least this dramatic arrest. We don't know what happened after he was taken into custody. Joining us now is CNN Crime and Justice Producer David Shortell. David, you were there before sunrise. This came as a surprise to you, it clearly as a surprise to Roger Stone. Tell us what happened.
DAVID SHORTELL, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: Yes, Alisyn, it was just after 6:00 a.m. when about a half-dozen police vehicles, black cars with silent sirens, came down this Fort Lauderdale street. Nice neighborhood. Cars came down silently, and then about a dozen officers, FBI agents in tactical vests with heavy weapons, fanned out across the front lawn of Roger Stone. Moments later they were tapping at his door, rapping loudly, FBI, open the door. We saw a light go on on the second floor, presumably Roger Stone being awoken by those loud knocks on his door. Moments later, you're hearing it now, FBI, warrant. Roger Stone appeared then in the doorway shortly afterwards. He was not wearing his usual attire. He's a nice dresser normally. He was in pjs. And the FBI agent confirmed it was him. The communication that we were able to overhear from the front line was minimal. But Roger Stone did say, yes, I'm Roger Stone. And then now we know he was taken into custody and charged.
CAMEROTA: And David, what happened? Could you see Roger Stone's demeanor? Could you see any sort of negotiations happening between the agents and Roger Stone as to if they were going to let him get dressed, if he was going in handcuffs, anything like that?
SHORTELL: Alisyn, it was a wild scene, and it all happened very quickly. So when the agents fanned across the lawn they were moving slowly, but urgently. When Stone came down, within moments it was cordial almost. They had a discussion. And then, in fact, we were moved down the street. The agents came across the street while this was happening and moved us. So we were unable to see the whole interaction. We know that Roger Stone is no longer here on this street in Fort Lauderdale where he lives with his wife. But he was gone within maybe 30 minutes. So depending on if that was a discussion or him getting dressed, we are unclear at this moment. But Roger Stone was discussing apparently what was happening to him this morning, which was that he was being arrested. They were having a friendly discussion, and now he's in custody.
[08:05:04] CAMEROTA: And very quickly, David, you were there just because of a good reporter's instinct. You knew that the grand jury met yesterday, and you just on a hunch thought maybe it would be good to go see what Roger Stone was up to this morning, and you happened to be there, and our CNN cameras happened to capture this. Very quickly, last question. Behind you did any agents stay behind? Can you tell if they executing a search warrant on his house or if they just left, all left with Roger Stone?
SHORTELL: Alisyn, we're about a hundred yards up the street, so we are not seeing any activity down the street from here. A lot of cars did peel out when Roger Stone was taken away earlier this morning in the 6:00 hour. So not much activity left here. There still is yellow tape blocking access to this street here in Fort Lauderdale, so something is going on down there. Whether or not it's something that is of interest to this investigation, it's unclear at this moment. But they are not letting typical people go down the street. They are not letting the media down there either, Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: David Shortell, thank you very much for giving us this exclusive CNN video of what happened at Roger Stone's house when he was taken into custody. We'll check back.
BERMAN: What a morning, what a panel we have for you to discuss this. Joining us is Maggie Haberman, White House correspondent for "The New York Times," Jeffrey Toobin, our chief legal analyst, and David Gregory, CNN political analyst.
Let me read you, this is P-207, what I believe to be the two key graphs in this 24-page indictment, new information. "By in or around June and July, 2016, Stone informed senior Trump campaign officials that he had information indicating Organization One had documents whose release would be damaging to the Clinton campaign. After the July 22nd, 2016, release of stolen DNC e-mails by Organization One, a senior Trump campaign official was directed to contact Stone about any additional releases and what other damaging information Organization One" -- that's WikiLeaks -- "had regarding the Clinton campaign. Stone thereafter told the Trump campaign about potential future releases of damaging material by Organization One." Again, that's WikiLeaks.
Jeffrey Toobin, to you. You have had a chance to read through this indictment. This is the first direct link that the special counsel has made, in my mind, between the Trump campaign and the WikiLeaks information.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: And I think that may be an extremely important use of the passive voice in that indictment, "was directed." Who directed Trump campaign officials? It sounds to me, and again, I only want to say it just sounds to me like it could be Donald Trump himself, because that -- who else would direct campaign officials to be in touch with Stone? It is highly suggestive that candidate Trump himself told his officials to get in touch with Stone and find out what's going on.
Remember, of course, this is while he was campaigning saying, I love WikiLeaks. So it's not like he thought WikiLeaks is the outlaw organization that his CIA director later described it to be. This, I think, the use of the passive voice in that sentence is extremely interesting and potentially important.
CAMEROTA: Go ahead, David Gregory.
DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: What does it add up to, I think is a critical question, because, I obviously agree with Jeffrey that if the president is directing this contact, we know a few things at this point as the indictment spells out. The DNC gets hacked. The Russians are behind it. Mueller has already indicted Russian security personnel for hacking. And now you have someone very close to Trump who was in contact indirectly, according to the indictment, with WikiLeaks. The candidate says WikiLeaks is great. He's calling on the Russians to find missing e-mails. And he's clearly open for any kind of opposition research wherever it comes from.
But Stone is acting like a kind of gadfly I think is his defense here, that he's just BS-ing and that he's pumping things up. And is the extent of it that, hey, Roger, find out what they've got and what else they are coming up with, or does it go beyond that to actual criminal interference? I think that's suggestive here but we still don't know the answer.
BERMAN: Maggie Haberman, you have covered Roger Stone for years. Talk to me in your mind the significance of this remarkable morning.
MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Roger Stone has been indicted, so that in and of itself is sort of remarkable right. This has been a discussion over the last several months of people waiting for this indictment to come through.
In terms of what it means for people around Donald Trump, Donald Trump and Roger Stone have a very complicated relationship. I think Jeffrey Toobin knows this, too. It spans many decades. Roger is Trump's oldest and longest serving on and off political adviser, but the "off" is important there.
[08:10:03] Trump and Roger have at times had a falling out. Remember that Roger was fired by the Trump campaign, or, according to Trump, Roger had told me that he quit at the time. but they have had lots of back and forth.
I do think that this gets a little closer to the president, and I agree with Jeffrey that I think the key question is the "was directed" sentence here. Roger has told me, he has told other reporters that this was puffery, essentially, his discussions about WikiLeaks during that time. And one of roger's calling cards is that he tends to sometimes write himself into scenes that he isn't a part of.
I think that Mueller has evidence beyond just texts and e-mails or I don't think that you would see the indictment just based on other things that we have seen from Mueller. I think that there is a reference in the indictment to an October conversation involving someone on the Trump campaign, I believe that that is Steve Bannon, in an e-mail exchange that my colleagues and I wrote about a while ago. But that July reference, it could be only a very small number of people. Steve Bannon was not there yet. And I agree that "was directed" is a precise way of phrasing it.
CAMEROTA: And also, it says that a senior Trump campaign official was directed. So that means that the pyramid gets smaller for who could make that direction.
BERMAN: In the previous paragraph it just says, hang on, that Stone informed senior Trump campaign officials, plural. This is again in the June-July timeframe here. More than one senior Trump campaign official was somehow connected to this pursuit of the WikiLeaks information. If I'm a senior Trump campaign official in the June-July timeframe right now, I imagine maybe you are a little bit nervous, Jeffrey?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely. Although, I tell you one person who may be breathing somewhat of a sigh of relief this morning is Steve Bannon, of all people, because there is a passage in here where Stone says to someone else, I keep trying to call Steve Bannon and he won't call me back. I'm sure Bannon is very glad for that reference.
But if I could just talk about one thing about Roger Stone that I think all of us who have -- Maggie and all of us who have covered him for a long time know. He talks with this tremendous bravado, and he likes to talk like a gangster even though he's not a gangster. There are references to "The Godfather" in here, to Frank Pentangeli. And particularly the exchanges with Randy Credico where they are obviously having a very contentious dispute through these texts, and he says I'm going to kill your dog, effectively.
That sounds funny when you're just sort talking with Roger Stone. Here in black and white, it's pretty ugly, and he is going to have to defend it in front of a jury and say, well, when I said I was going to kill his dog I didn't mean I was really going to kill his dog. It looks very different in an indictment than it does reciting Roger Stone stories a bar.
CAMEROTA: Maggie, how is president Trump going to react to this this morning?
HABERMAN: I think that you will see a version of Roger Stone and I don't speak, he left my campaign. It will be something along those lines. Again, I think what Jeffrey just said I think is really important. I think that anybody who has had communications with Roger Stone in writing over the years is familiar with a certain style, including some things that look a little stark and strange. Except as I remember from some of these exchanges he had with Randy Credico who I believe is one mentioned in this indictment, although not by name, there are these contentious, I'm going to kill your dog and so forth, and then it ends with things let's go get dinner.
So I don't know how this all ends up. I don't think that the president is going to claim Roger as somebody who he's close to. I think he hasn't for some time. I think the president's M.O. with all of these indictments is to try to minimize the interactions he or the campaign have with someone.
TOOBIN: Actually, though, there is a recent tweet -- we should look it up -- in the past couple of months where the president draws a contrast between Michael Cohen, who flipped, and Roger Stone, a stand- up guy. So we should track that down because he was sort of supporting Roger Stone in his defiance of Mueller.
HABERMAN: That's a great point.
BERMAN: David, go ahead.
GREGORY: I have a couple of questions to put on the table. Is this the beginning of something? If he was a stand-up guy, does he continue to stand up as he has to answer for some of these things and multiple counts of lying to investigators, lying to Congress, obstructing justice, witness tampering. I could also see the president saying, there is still no collusion here. What he was doing was checking out whether there was more coming from WikiLeaks. That's his standard defense.
[08:15:01] GREGORY: And that's still a question for me, which is what's potentially incendiary is let's say the president or candidate was talking to Roger Stone and they were working at some level indirectly with the Russians to get the information out. Or was he simply saying go find out if they've got more stuff coming? Isn't that a different -- you know, that's a different matter altogether and not necessarily a crime.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's a terrific question to chew over. David, Maggie, Jeffrey, thank you very much for helping us understand what's happened so far.
This is just the beginning of what could be a very eventful day.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: It's only 8:15 on the east coast.
BERMAN: Coming up, White House press secretary Sarah Sanders. What is the White House response to the dramatic developments?
CAMEROTA: So, the breaking news this morning, the FBI has arrested long-time Trump associate Roger Stone. A Senate Democrat reacts to the news, next.
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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
CAMEROTA: We do have breaking news. Roger Stone, President Trump's longtime associate, was arrested early this morning by FBI agents. He has been indicted on seven charges brought by special counsel Robert Mueller.
Let's get reaction from Capitol Hill. Senator Michael Bennet, the Democrat, on the Senate Intelligence Committee, a Democrat, joins us now.
Good morning, Senator.
SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D), COLORADO: Good morning. Thanks for having me.
CAMEROTA: I don't know if you have seen the dramatic video that CNN has obtained of Roger Stone's arrest before sunrise this morning by FBI agents pounding on his door.
[08:20:00] You are in the Intel Committee. How do you think this moves the needle on the investigation?
BENNET: Well, obviously, I can't talk about anything on the Intelligence Committee. But I can talk about your footage. And my first thought when I saw those FBI guys on the door, or Roger Stone's doorways, thank God we still live in a country that subscribes to the rule of law. We are a country of laws, not a country of men.
That's evidenced that -- what you showed today is evidenced that that's still true. There is so much I'm frustrated about with the way the government is working. But law enforcement is doing its job.
And this investigation has resulted in the indictment of over 30 people. I think eight people have pled guilty. It is not a witch hunt. It is a professionally run investigation by Robert Mueller who is respected by law enforcement all over the country.
And I think it's incumbent on Democrats and Republicans to make sure this investigation is protected and he's able to take it to its conclusion, wherever it leads.
CAMEROTA: And, by the way, many law enforcement, many FBI agents are doing their jobs today without being paid. Maybe those agents we just saw arresting Roger Stone are not being paid because of the government shutdown. So, you had this emotional scolding of the whole idea of the shutdown and the president's border wall yesterday on the Senate floor. So, I just want to play a moment of that for everyone.
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BENNET: This idea that he was going to build a medieval wall across the southern border of Texas, take it from the farmers and ranchers that were there and have the Mexicans pay for it isn't true!
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CAMEROTA: Seems like you reached a breaking point yesterday. What happened?
BENNET: Well, what happened was my colleague from Texas, Senator Cruz, was on the floor claiming that he felt sympathy for the Coast Guard guys that aren't being paid. By the way, I have huge sympathy for that. I think it's ridiculous that they are not being paid.
But what I pointed out was that in 2013, Ted Cruz shut down the government while Colorado was beset by floods. You know, we had people dying, people's homes destroyed, communities trying to recover, people trying to do everything they can to rebuild, the best of America, the best of America. And here, we were shut down for politics so he could read Dr. Seuss on the floor of the Senate.
So, my view is, look, this is absurd that the government is shut down. We should never shut the government down. Beyond that, we should focus on a set of priorities that are important to the people of Colorado and the rest of the country like whether we are going to furnish a decent education to people, whether we're going to create a system of higher education that people can afford, whether they're going to invest in our infrastructure.
When was the last time you guys talked about any of that on CNN? Or --
CAMEROTA: Yes. Well, listen, Senator Cruz's point yesterday was there was a clean bill that Senator Kennedy had introduced that Democrats didn't support that could have supported the Coast Guard.
BENNET: Yes, because it was a political trick. It was an excuse for not opening the rest of the government. It was an excuse not to pay those FBI guys or those DOJ guys. Having worked at the Department of Justice myself, I know what amazing civil servants they are, not to pay the people at Homeland Security, but to claim to the American people that somehow just paying the Coast Guard was adequate or sufficient.
It was a political trick is what it was. And it's -- we should open the government up. This is -- this -- the idea that we are holding hostage the American people's government over a campaign promise that the president simply can't fulfill because it was a lie is ridiculous in the greatest democracy ever known on the planet.
CAMEROTA: Well --
BENNET: And we've got to come to our senses here and say we expect a different standard out of our elected officials than we are getting.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
BENNET: And I think we've all got a job to do as citizens to make sure people are held accountable.
CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, yesterday, as you know, there was an opportunity with the two bills in the Senate, neither of which passed. So, today, are we any closer to ending the shutdown?
BENNET: Look, they didn't pass, they didn't pass. But ironically, the Democratic bill got more votes in the Senate than the Republican bill. And I think that was Mitch McConnell demonstrating to the president that there are not the votes in a Republican Senate -- remember, the Republicans have the majority in the Senate. There are not the votes there to support the president and his wall. And McConnell showed it clearly yesterday by holding those votes.
And so, my hope is that somebody at the White House is paying attention to this. Unfortunately, I'm not sure they are sympathetic to the catastrophic result of the shutdown for federal workers living all over the country including in Colorado. But maybe -- and I don't think they have a lot of sympathy for them. But maybe they've got the sense now that they are on the losing end of the stick here politically.
[08:25:06] And they will allow the government to re-open and we can begin to do the American people's work again.
CAMEROTA: Senator, one of the president's ideas, in fact, CNN has gotten a draft proposal of what it would look like is an emergency declaration which would actually seize some private property along the border in an eminent domain clash to build the wall. I mean, it's just striking because I remember not long ago when Republicans, particularly conservatives, would have gone ballistic at the idea of a president seizing private property. You talked about what would happen in Colorado.
BENNET: Yes.
CAMEROTA: So, what's going on?
BENNET: Well, let me say this, about this. Republicans in Colorado -- I mean, I don't want to be presumptuous, but my state is the third Republican, third Democratic and a third independent. Republicans in Colorado would go ballistic if any president suggested he was going to seize farmland or ranchland by eminent domain. And every elected official in the state would protect our state and our property owners against that kind of activity.
I do not for the life of me understand how Republican senators in Washington, D.C. could defend it or see it differently. It doesn't make any sense. It is a great example actually. In fact, a perfect example of how the Republican Party nationally has become Donald Trump's party and how the Republican Party nationally is no longer conservative.
There is nothing conservative about declaring an unconstitutional emergency and seizing the property of private citizens by eminent domain. That is a radical act by an autocrat. That's something we expect in countries that are all over the world that don't subscribe to the rule of law.
The idea it is being talked about by an American president and endorsed by members of his party in Washington, D.C. is a sign of how close we are to the edge. And when we stand up against that kind of stuff from my point of view anyway, this is not about standing up for Democrats. It is standing up for everybody in this country who believes in the rule of law and believes this democracy has a set of precepts it needs to function.
CAMEROTA: Senator, very quickly, we're out of time, but you have found a passion. Pundits pointed out you found your voice with this. I'm just wondering as we approach 2020, are you considering something bigger than just your Senate seat?
BENNET: Well, I don't know. I said last night like everybody in this building I'm thinking about it. I think we need a huge change. I view Donald Trump not as the cause of our problems. I think he has accelerated a lot of problems, but he is a symptom of the political breakdown that we've had in this country over the last ten years, much of it caused by the right wing of the Republican Party.
And we have to come together and begin to resolve these differences in order to leave our children and grandchildren the country that we were left.
CAMEROTA: Senator Michael Bennet, we appreciate you being on NEW DAY.
BENNET: Thanks for having me.
CAMEROTA: Thank you very much for your perspective.
BENNET: Thank you. Thank you.
CAMEROTA: John?
BERMAN: All right. The breaking news this morning, the president's long-time political adviser Roger Stone under arrest, charged in the Mueller investigation. What does the White House make of this? The president's press secretary, Sarah Sanders, joins us next.
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