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Historic Partial Government Shutdown is Over; Stone: "I Will Not Bear False Witness Against Trump"; DACA Recipient Fears Deportation if Protection Disappear; Temporary Fix Leaves Thousands of Workers Worried About the Future. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired January 26, 2019 - 12:00   ET


FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Thanks for joining me this Saturday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Temporary relief from the partial, partial, the historic partial U.S. government shutdown. For the first time in 35 days, nine federal departments and smaller agencies are reopening for now. The president and lawmakers now have just three weeks to hash out a more permanent spending deal after reaching a temporary spending resolution, one that does not include border wall funding. President Trump is trying to spin this into a win, saying he made no concessions in the deal. But the bottom line remains there is still no funding for the president's wall. Here is his message about what could come next if no agreement is reached in three weeks.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So let me be very clear, we really have no choice but to build a powerful wall or steel barrier. If we don't get a fair deal from congress, the government will either shut down on February 15th again or I would use the powers afforded to me under the laws and the Constitution of the United States to address this emergency.


WHITFIELD: That looming threat of another shutdown is an unbearable thought for the 800,000 federal workers and their families who have gone weeks without a paycheck. CNN's White House Reporter Sarah Westwood joining me right now. So what more can you tell us about negotiations, talks, all sides coming together or ways what's next?

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well Fred, President Trump is making clear despite his decision to fold in the shutdown stalemate, he intends to make a play for his border wall one way or another at the end of this three-week negotiating period. Despite claiming repeatedly through throughout the shutdown he would not reopen the government until he got new wall money, Trump essentially agreed to the same kind of deal he rejected in December when the shutdown began. It's a three-week temporary spending bill that will keep government open until February 15th and give appropriators some time to work on a border security package. Trump defending his concession on Twitter this morning writing, "21 days goes very quickly. Negotiations with democrats will start immediately. Will not be easy to make a deal, both parties very dug in. The case for national security has been greatly enhanced by what has been happening at the border and through dialogue. We will build the wall."

Now White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders hinted that democrats might get something in the way of concession if they agree to border wall funding writing, in part, "the only outstanding question is whether the democrats want something or nothing."

Yesterday's deal came after Trump caved amid mounting pressure from lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. Congressional republicans were starting to show signs of breaking ranks on Trump's hard-line position. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell called President Trump on Thursday to warn him it was just unclear how much longer that GOP conference would be able to hang together. White House aides were particularly concerned Fred, that images of chaos at airports around the country, which were starting to pour in even more on Friday, were going to push some of those wobbly republicans into democrat's arms. So even though the White House is still holding a national emergency declaration now as an option, they're hoping by the end of the three weeks they can get bay partisan deal, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Sarah Westwood, thank you so much. So as thousands of federal workers wait to receive those -- the back pay and paychecks, many are still struggling to put food on the table for their families. To help ease that burden, food banks and free restaurants for federal workers still in operation, including one in Washington run by chef and activist Jose Andres. CNN's National Correspondent Kristen Holmes is getting a up close look at that pop-up shop and what's happening and for how long is this being made available?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Fred, that's absolutely right. They're actually keeping this open through next Friday even though we're all breathing a sigh of relief that the shutdown is over, these federal employees are still living through it. They're still not being paid. They've gone a month without getting a paycheck and now there's this added fear that this could all happen again in just three weeks. Take a listen to what one federal employee told us about this feeling right now.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel good that it's open. It's only open for three weeks. It's really sad when someone who is rich and a millionaire, a billionaire maybe thinks that playing with people's lives is important and it's, you know, to get what you want.


HOLMES: And Freddie also told us that even though she's so grateful to places like this, the World Central Kitchen, this is actually her first time going to a place like this because of her pride. She always thought of herself as someone that gave to charity, not someone that was going to receive charity and she told us that it's just because this month has been increasingly harder and harder. She has a daughter with special needs. Getting that medicine has been incredibly expensive and she knew she needed to do what she needed to do and that's why she's here today. Fred. WHITFIELD: Well another great example of how so many have opened up

their homes, their hearts, you know, for so many people in need who never expected to be in this predicament. all right, Kristen Holmes, thank you so much.

The democrats are taking this deal with the president as a win for themselves. Listen to Senator Chuck Schumer and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.


NANCY PELOSI, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Disagreement of policy should never be a reason to shut down government, really shouldn't, especially, again, for a period of time that has an impact on the paychecks. I'm sad it has taken this long. I'm glad that we've come to a conclusion today as to how we go forward in the next three weeks.

CHUCK SCHUMER, MINORITY LEADER: Hopefully now the president has learned his lesson. We cannot, cannot, ever hold American workers hostage again.


WHITFIELD: Joining me right now, senior columnist at the "Daily Beast" and CNN Political Commentator Matt Lewis and co-founder and manager editor at "The Beat D.C.", Tiffany Cross. Good to see both of you.

Matt, you know you're taking on this temporary deal. The president was at the Rose Garden and he's hearing applause as though this is some great victory but at the same time it didn't take long before he starts threatening if we don't come to some agreement, we could be in this again. You know, a possible shutdown again.

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR; Yes, I think that the odds of Donald Trump getting the wall that he promised, this pledge that he made, are really long. Even Donald Trump is walking that back now. He's saying we don't need a wall across the entire southern border. It doesn't have to be concrete. There can be steel slats.

WHITFIELD: But he is still saying there needs to be a barrier. Who is he talking to?

LEWIS: Well, I think there's a possibility that we could have some sort of a bipartisan compromise where we do have some border security. We have -- we reinforce some fencing. maybe we add some fencing and then we also do a deal about the Dreamers.

WHITFIELD: He has to be the one to agree to that. You sound like what so many democrats have been saying. We'll do all of these things. There will be border security. There will be, you know, hopefully something for Dreamers. But it's been the president who has said no, wall or nothing. Is he going to be...

LEWIS: And the problem -- and also -

WHITFIELD: .. is he going to be ...

LEWIS: Yes, and I agree. I think the problem with Donald Trump is he may agree to that and then change his mind if Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh aren't happy with it. Again, we could have this happen in three weeks; we could go through this again.

WHITFIELD: So Tiffany, the president is tweeting out, you know, in no way is this a concession. At the same time, in my back pocket is, you know, declaring -- I have alternative alternatives, you know, and I might be acting on that. It didn't take long for him to celebrate the government being reopened and then now going back to the same old kind of dialogue. So does this set the stage for perhaps no action or very little action in the next three weeks?

TIFFANY CROSS, CO-FOUNDER AND MANAGER EDITOR AT "THE BEAT D.C.": Well first this was absolutely a concession and I think that Donald Trump had to do something yesterday because he desperately needed for cable news outlets to lose the banner of Roger Stone indicted, his BFF got his door kicked in by FBI agents. He needed to change the narrative. There was also the other -- the issue of his billionaire NFL owner friends who were going to be extremely perturbed if there was flight issues with people getting to the NFL, so this wasn't necessarily doing the right thing and of course his hubris...

WHITFIELD: So now what you're saying is he wasn't motivated by you know, compassion. He wasn't motivated by these hardship stories, but, instead, thinking about the bottom line?

CROSS: It was the bottom line from the people -- from NFL owner, from Roger Stone and I think he was losing with the people. The people overwhelmingly blamed him and the Republican Party for the shutdown with good reason, because he owned it. He said it himself in the Oval Office in that meeting with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer.

I think there's been this false narrative where people, you know, try to act like this is a debate with half of the country and it just simply isn't. He's trying to appease less than 20 percent of the American people and when people couldn't feed themselves or their families, they overwhelmingly challenged him to do something about it.


Now the players in this game are going to be House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell who I think is in the Republican Witness Protection Program after the latest fiasco with his party, when they have the vote, when the two measures failed, the spending bills failed in the house, more people voted with the democrats. I think he has to face harsh realities that the people are not with hill, despite the narrative he tried to create, the people are not on his side.

WHITFIELD: All right and Matt do you see that the president will see that or have some sort of realization because of the majority of Americans have said while he was campaigning, the majority of Americans, according to latest polling, showing most of America opposes the wall. So why is he maintaining this mantra that it's the wall or nothing? LEWIS: Well I think a few reasons. Number one, Donald Trump has

always been much more interested in his political base than he has been in growing his coalition or the electorate at large. I think he still sees his path to re-election as going through the electoral college and winning places like Michigan and Wisconsin and Ohio and that means appeasing his base and keeping them happy, keeping Anne Coulter and Rush Limbaugh on board.

The last thing I'd say is Donald Trump has always put a premium on looking tough, on this macho swagger. I don't see how he can afford to back down. He has backed down for now. But to have this (inaudible) occur with no wall, that's why I think there's a real danger he could declare a national emergency. I think the courts would stop it. I don't think he would get the wall.

WHITFIELD: He's sign posting it, he really is and then he walked off, you know, that podium not taking any questions and perhaps that, you know, speaks to the -- trying to maintain that swagger.

LEWIS: He needs to find a way to save face and that's what this would do.

CROSS: But the challenge is, I just want to say, that he's an unreliable negotiator. He constantly moves the goal post. So even when people have tried to meet him in the middle, there...

WHITFIELD: And then critics say there was no negotiation so, you know...

CROSS: Well he's tried to make border security synonymous with the wall and that's just plainly not factual either but the challenge is his very blindly loyal base doesn't really understand what's happening at the border, so he can create his own narrative and we've seen that Roger Stone who helped him, who's, you know, the architect of disinformation, he's taking pages out of his playbook. That's why he's been able to keep his base loyal to him, because they don't know any different.

WHITFIELD: Right, deny and no apologies. That's part of the playbook.

LEWIS: It all comes from Roy Cohn. They both learned from the same master.

WHITFIELD: All right and Tiffany Cross. Thanks to both of you, appreciate it.

Meantime, Congressman Steve King is defending himself against racism claims. straight ahead what he told voters today at a town hall about his comments regarding white supremacy. And later, another group of people caught in the middle of the shutdown and border wall battle. The Dreamers. One woman joins us live to explain why she does not to be a bargaining chip.


WHITFIELD: Iowa Congressman Steve King is addressing claims of racism against him, speaking at his first town hall since being rebuked by U.S. Congress. And after telling The New York Times that he didn't get why he didn't get why the terms white nationalist and white supremacist are offensive. CNN's Sarah Sidner is with us now. You were in that town hall, what was the turnout like? Describe it all.

SARAH SIDNER, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: It's a very small town, a town of about 930 people. One of the smaller towns with the county seat -- inside the county seat. I should mention that there are about 80 people that showed up to this town hall and Steve King has not had a town hall in many, many, many months, especially since all this controversy over his comments. I will say that when he came up, you know, they did the pledge of allegiance and then Steve King said well I'm going to go ahead and address the elephant in the room, that being that New York Times article and also the fact he was stripped of all his committee assignments as well as a Congressman.

Here is some of what he said addressing the crowd.


REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: It is stunning and astonishing to me that four words in a New York Times quote can outweigh 20-some years of public service, 20-some years of giving you my word every day and not one soul has stood up and said that I've ever lied to you or misrepresented anything or given it to you in any spin that's anything other than what I believe to be the objective truth.


SIDNER: And he ended that with saying I am not a racist. What he did not say is he did not deny that he said it. Talked about taking it out of context, if you will. The crowd was very happy to see him for the most part. There were a few in the crowd, just a couple of people, who were Democrats, that we realized later on who asked one tough question about his travel and whether or not he'd be saving money and not traveling abroad so much. And he addressed that as well. But the crowd was very, very friendly. It was pretty much a love-fest here in Primghar, which is a tiny town that -- you know, most of the people here have supported Steve King.

Some came from, for example, Sioux Falls, they came from Sioux City to this small place. But a hard place to get to, not near a highway and that was pointed out by the Democrats who were -- were here in tow listening, and they are from his district as well. Certainly the crowd was friendly but Steve King said that he is not a racist, he kept saying it over and over and over again. That certainly hasn't quelled the controversy around him, especially since he's been stripped of his committee positions. Fred.

WHITFIELD: Sara Sidner, thank you so much.

All right, despite being indicted and arrested, Roger Stone says he did not collude with Russia or WikiLeaks. Straight ahead here, what he's telling CNN about the case against him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) WHITFIELD: Hello again, everyone, and thank you so much for being with me this Saturday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

All right, longtime Donald Trump associate Roger Stone will be back in federal court Tuesday for his arraignment. Stone was indicted on multiple accounts on Friday, including making false statements, obstruction and witness tampering. Part of the indictment claims Stone lied about his ties between the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks.

He says the charges are politically motivated and he plans to plead not guilty. Stone was arrested during a dramatic FBI raid of his Florida home early Friday morning, he spoke to CNN's Chris Cuomo last night and downplayed the charges brought by Special Counsel Robert Mueller.


STONE: First of all, I always said that there could be some process crime. There's still no evidence whatsoever that I had advanced knowledge of the topic, the subject or the source of the WikiLeaks disclosures.

I never received any of the WikiLeaks disclosures, I never communicated with Assange or WikiLeaks other than the limited communication on Twitter, direct message, which I gave to the House Intelligence Committee last September I guess it was.


CNN Justice Correspondent Jessica Schneider joining me right now. Jessica.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Yes, Fredericka, you saw there Roger Stone making his media blitz before he appears in Washington D.C. in court on Tuesday.

And the judge he'll face there actually has cracked down on other defendants who have been talking to the press and their lawyers, including Paul Manafort and Rick Gates. And Roger Stone, you heard it there, he continues to say there is no collusion, there never was any collusion.

And while it's true that he isn't facing any conspiracy charge, he is facing that hefty seven count indictment. And probably more importantly, there is a lot in this underlying - in the underlying details of this indictment that is damaging and raising those continued questions about whether there was perhaps some larger conspiracy with the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks and Russia.

So the part of the indictment raising the most questions here, that a senior Trump campaign official in July 2016 was actually directed to contact Roger Stone about any of the releases or damaging information to Hilary Clinton that could be coming from WikiLeaks.

And of course that was after the Clinton campaign had already said that they had been hacked by the Russians. And it wasn't just this one contact with the Trump campaign, this indictment talks about multiple contacts where Roger Stone kept the Trump campaign apprised of any future releases from WikiLeaks.

So really the questions are all still there, who exactly directed this senior Trump campaign official to contact Roger Stone, was it the president? Was he directly involved? So Fredericka, this indictment really turning out to be classic Robert Mueller where he - he accuses someone and indicts someone about false statements and obstruction, but really there are still some lingering questions there about what else might be in the pipeline for the Special Counsel's investigation and whether or not the president could be directly implicated. Fred.

WHITFIELD: Jessica Schneider, thank you so much. All right, let's talk further on this. With me now is Samantha Vinograd who is a former senior advisor to the national security advisor under President Obama.

Also with me is Shan Wu who is a former federal prosecutor and CNN legal analyst. Good to see you both. All right so, Shan, you first, you know, Stone and his attorneys, you know, have been highlighting that prosecutors found no collusion, you know, or they would have charged him with that.

And, you know, he stood outside that court room, you know, really proclaiming victory. So is it as simple as that that no collusion, no crime?

SHAN WU, LEGAL ANALYST, CNN: Well there's definitely lots of crimes in that indictment, and I think he's really just blowing smoke. I mean they really have him clocked dead to rights (ph) in terms of the lying and trying to tamper with the witnesses.

Also to Jessica's point about what's going to happen when he comes to D.C., I mean that is all going to be shut down. I was in front of that judge, she had a very, very strict construction of what her gag order meant.

With regards to collusion, correct. There's not a substantive count in there about conspiracy, they don't quite have that last missing piece of connecting him directly to WikiLeaks.

What really strikes me about the indictment though is assuming that the indictment is correct, the great eagerness on the part of the Trump campaign to want to get to this information with reckless disregard of the source, I mean that point was well known that WikiLeaks had gotten this from Russian interference and they didn't care.

They seemed very eager to try to collude even if they failed to do so.

WHITFIELD: So say, you know, is it possible that, you know, this Stone indictment really is just another piece of the puzzle, that perhaps this is, you know, just kind of a trickling, you know, the prelude before much more significant charges were to come.

SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, CNN: It's certainly possible, Fred. We can't rule out the possibility of a superseding indictment several weeks down the road, that could happen.

And in the interim, one thing is very clear, we're all focused on this work conspiracy and collusion, Roger Stone did help Russia. Whether he did so in a legal fashion or not is something that the Special Counsel will look at.

But Roger Stone knowingly communicated at the direction of the Trump campaign with an organization that laundered information on behalf of Russia.


That's not my assessment, that's the Department of Justice's assessment about the role that WikiLeaks played, helping the GRU, the Russian intelligence services, launder this information.

And that information being made public is most definitely not anything that Vladimir Putin is crying about. And the fact that the President refuses to condemn the laundering of information, hacking, et cetera, really opens us up to this happening again in 2020.

WHITFIELD: Right, and then that one of the charges is about lying then there is the very, you know, simple follow-up of what's behind the lie. Why?

You know, Shan, would so many who have been caught up in lying. I mean, so many charges of lying. What's behind the lie? You know, Mueller team feels like it already has the truth, correct?

SHAN WU, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes, and they probably do. I mean, they've been very opaque so we don't know what they have. But it is very striking and there's just a remarkable number of false statements, prosecutions and convictions going on in this case. And really does begs the question, what is it that they're all trying to hide.

I mean, when you look at the sort of open and shut case against Stone on the witness tampering, I mean, his threats to that person too which is probably Randy Credico. It's just what is he so desperate to keep out in terms of wanting him -- to Credico to go with a different version of events, you know. And it's striking, Stone has been a fixture for many decades now. He's a dirty trickster.

WHITFIELD: Four decades at least.

WU: Four decades and it's kind of interesting to watch his transformation into the digital age here. And to Sam's point, what can we and what should we be doing to guard against that kind of dirty tricks in this age.

WHITFIELD: He is also conveying that he is extremely confident. You know, he says, not only is, he's not guilty of these charges. But, he has said quite defiantly in so many different ways that he will continue to back the President.

Take a listen to what he said. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROGER STONE, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISOR: There is no circumstance whatsoever under which I will bear false witness against the President. Nor will I make up lies to ease the pressure on myself.


WHITFIELD: So, Sam, you know, the feeling has been by so many that he was telegraphing. You know, he essentially was sending a signal to President Trump and the President has done the same in his, you know, tweets prior to yesterday about, you know, praising him that, you know, he has guts.

VINOGRAD: Well, with respect to what Roger Stone said, I think at this point we probably have to look at his text messages and his e- mails because the words that he speaks often don't match when he's actually put in other forms of communication.

But the President's response to the Stone indictment and calling this a witch hunt, talking about CNN and indicating that we had some sort of one up on the indictment. All these sorts of things, really again, play into the fact that he is refusing to condemn what are really serious charges. Lying to law enforce -- or excuse me, lying to Congress, witness tampering and other issues.

And that, again, Fred, is just condoning this kind of behavior continuing and really opening up to more vulnerabilities in 2020 because it's messaging that this kind of stuff is OK. His harsher words for the FBI than he does for the Russian GRU who attacked our country and members of his campaign that may or may not have been used as part of that attack.

WHITFIELD: We'll leave it there for now. Shan Wu, Samantha Vinograd, thank you so much.


WHITFIELD: Negotiations over President Trump's border wall have at times included the faith of the Dreamers, undocumented immigrants brought here as children. Next, one of those Dreamers joining us live to explain why she does not want to be a bargaining chip.


[12:32:56] WHITFIELD: Hi welcome back. The U.S. government shutdown is over and no progress on immigration and border security. And some 700,000 of the so-called Dreamers remain in limbo. The Trump administration terminated the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals or DACA as its better known and a proposal to end protections for Dreamers once again and it went nowhere.

With me now is Maria Praeli, she is one of those so called Dreamers and she was brought to the U.S. by her parents from Peru when she was just 5-years-old. And she also now works for FORWARD.US, an organization which favors a permanent solution for Dreamers. Maria, good to see you.


WHITFIELD: All right, so what is your reaction to being, you know, caught in the middle of this government spending bill?

PRAELI: You know, unfortunately, I'm not surprised. I have been living with this anxiety and this uncertainty for the past year and a half since the administration decided to end the program, which they didn't have to do so to begin with and put the 700,000 Dreamers in limbo. And addition to that, that they've also decided to end a lot of the TPS Programs and put an additional 300,000 individuals in limbo.

So, we're just living with this reality that every single month something new happens. We hear something new. But, in reality is the administration wanted to fix this, they would put forward something that offer or promote protections to Dreamers and TPS holders and didn't alter immigration system in a variety of other ways in the manner that they have put forward in the past.

WHITFIELD: So, you do want these things resolved. You want them tackled but you're saying not in this manner as attached to a spending bill, as it has been attached to keeping the government open or closed?

PRAELI: You know, I think that is up to Congress. The time line is up to Congress but what we do know is that almost 90 percent of the American public supports Dreamers and finding a permanent pathway to them. And that we could easily fix this issue if the administration decided to put forward legislation to protect these vulnerable populations and not demand huge cuts to our legal system, huge impactful changes to our asylum system. That is not needed. This is a manufactured -- a crisis manufactured by the administration to begin with. And we shouldn't have to continue to have these conversations over and over again.

[12:40:12] You know, the past year and a half has been filled with so much anxiety in my life because you hear these things. Legislation is proposed. And at the end of the day, every single day, I'm waking up with my expiration date in my mind thinking what am I going to do if we don't find a permanent solution for DACA recipients like myself. What's going to happen if I wake up in January of 2020 and I no longer have these protections?

WHITFIELD: And talk to me about that anxiety. I mean, the anxiety, you know, is not put aside until that January 2020 date that you speak of. But you just described you're feeling this anxiety every day, in what manner?

PRAELI: You know, you just -- you can't plan. And what I like to say is, you have that question that a lot of folks ask you. You know, what is your five-year plan? And I can't see beyond my expiration date. I have learned to live in two-year increments, planning my life in two-year increments. I don't want to plan beyond my expiration date because what happens if the program is not around when my expiration date comes around. I will no longer be able to work. I will no longer be able to drive. I could be deported to a country that I haven't been to in nearly 20 years.

So, how do you plan around that, you know. You really can't. You just try to get by and you try to do things with your life that help you get by as well.

WHITFIELD: So what do you want to this administration or lawmakers to take into consideration as they go back to the drawing board and try to, you know, carve out some sort of spending bill over the next 21 days, whether it includes, you know, provisions for DACA recipients or not.

What is it? I mean, this is your moment to make an appeal. What is it that you want to be taken into consideration particularly over the next couple of weeks?

PRAELI: You know, I want the administration and folks to be reminded that this is a crisis manufactured by this administration that they could choose to reinstate the DACA program. They could choose to not end the designations for the TPS countries and to really put forward a solution that offers permanent protections for these vulnerable populations. And that's it, right?

That's all that needs to happen. And we are in this issue again because the administration chose to end these programs. So, why do we have to continue to have these debates that include so many other parts of our immigration system when the administration is the one who chose to end this program to begin with? So I would ask like Congress in a bipartisan manner or to come together to really think about this and work and put something forward that would offer permanent protections to DACA recipients and TPS holders and wouldn't alter our immigration system beyond that.

WHITFIELD: All right, we'll leave it there, Maria Praeli, thank you so much for your time.

PRAELI: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Thanks for being with us, appreciate it.

And with the U.S. government shutdown, it is over, but its impact will be felt for months, maybe even years to come. Straight ahead, a closer look at the ripple effect.


[12:47:44] WHITFIELD: Welcome back, after 35 days of personal struggles and political jousting, the federal government is once again open for business. But how much damaged has already been done.

Yesterday, an uptick in air traffic control sick calls causing major delays and major East Coast Airports. And earlier in the week, an ATC, Air Traffic Control official told CNN the impact could be felt for quite a long time.


JIM MARINITTI, SOUTHERN REGIONAL VP, NATIONAL AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS ASSOCIATION: The hiring. The training that has not been accomplished will be difficult. The ripple effect for that, it could take years to catch up.


WHITFIELD: All right, let's bring in Jonathan Wackrow, he once served as a U.S. Secret Service Agent for President Obama. Good to see you Jonathan.

So the shutdown is over for now, but there are long term potential impacts?

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Absolutely. Just because the government looks like its opening quickly, the impact is going to last, you know, weeks, months, and potentially years.

When you take a look at the after effect of the shutdown, it's really good to do an impact analysis on three categories, people, process and technology. So, if I'm to look at the effects of the people, we know that it's been widely reported, 800,000 federal workers have been affected. They're going to get their pay.

But, unfortunately, the federal contractors who quite frankly do the yeoman's work for the federal government, they're not getting any back pay. So, their increased personal debt, their credit issues could have a lasting effect on their security levels to operate within the confines of the federal government.

From a process standpoint, we have to look at the immigration court. You know, for the last 35 days, immigration hearings have come to a complete standstill. There's a backlog of over 86, 000 cases. So just think of how long it's going to take the court system to process the backlog of 86,000 and the individuals that now have their due process delayed. Again, another long-term ripple effect of this shutdown.

And finally, I look at technology. Post-holiday season, the IRS has reported that there is a 60 percent increase in cyber crime activity that affects individuals. And this comes in the form of e-mail scams and other online, you know, fraud techniques. There has been no one for the last 35 days who have actually been looking at this.

[12:50:08] So, it's a little bit less tangible to put a number to this. But, the amount of fraud that has occurred towards individuals within the last 35 days I think is very significant.

WHITFIELD: So all of that as a result of a, you know, surefire shutdown but then.

WACKROW: Right. WHITFIELD: You know, there's a potential, you know, for another interruption as lawmakers try to work out yet another deal. So, how much does that potential even make an impact?

WACKROW: Listen, it's a significant impact. I talked to federal employees just a little while ago. I mean, what they're saying is, yes we're going back to work but we're bracing for impact.

There's no confidence that within the next three weeks. There's going to be a consensus as to a resolution to this wall, no wall, the immigration issue. And these employees are really feeling the effects and they're just bracing for another shutdown which puts the federal government and management in a precarious situation.

They have to manage a federal workforce that's now on edge. So how do you do that? There needs to be some protections that are in place to, you know, protect the law enforcement in critical functions to ensure that they get paid. And ensure that we don't lose what's known as, you know, and created (ph) which know is the experience gap.

Typically after a shutdown the federal government loses experienced workers. With only six percent of the federal workforce under the age of 13 -- I mean, the age of 30, you cannot take a senior manager regardless of their agency and back-fill them with junior personnels.


WACKROW: We create this inherent experience gap that definitely affects the operations of the agency.

WHITFIELD: And the exact experience.


WHITFIELD: All right, Jonathan Wackrow, we'll leave it there for now. Thank you so much.

WACKROW: Thank you. Thanks Fred.

WHITFIELD: And we'll be right back.


[12:56:04] WHITFIELD: So, imagine walking down the street, opening your front door or picking up a newspaper and discovering someone else looks just like you. What would you do? The all new CNN original film, "Three Identical Strangers" dives deep into the surreal story of triplets separated at birth who miraculously reunited with each other by chance at the age of 19.

Earlier this week, my colleague Anderson Cooper had the chance to speak with David Kellman and Bobby Shafran, two of the brothers featured in the film about their incredible story. Here is their conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: This film is really incredible. I saw it in the hotel room. Had no idea about it and I don't want to say too much about it because I don't want to -- there's a lot of twists and turns. And I want that your audience to see it for themselves.

Just big picture David, you and your brothers were separated at birth. You and do you -- when was it that you've discovered you had brothers?

DAVID KELLMAN, THREE IDENTICAL TRIPLETS: I went to school and everybody kept calling me Eddie, saying, "What are you doing back here?" And this went a whole day --

COOPER: First day of school? Everybody is calling you different (ph).

KELLMAN: All day and everybody. And so finally, after all these people, this one guy named Michael who was a big guy, who's in the film found out about this guy, knew Eddie well enough to know his birthday and when he was adopted.

So, he found me, he asked me my birthday, asked me if I was adopted. Told me he thought I had a twin. We called Eddie. And Eddie and I had a very rational conversation. We're going to get together in about a week. And as soon as we hung up, got evaporated and Michael and I got a car and drove there, a hundred miles per hour.

ROBERT SHAFRAN, THREE IDENTICAL TRIPLETS: It hit the campus papers and hit the local papers and all of the sudden it was everywhere. And I was in Queens College and somebody showed me the picture, I guess (INAUDIBLE) and then a post to a news to Little West.

And the pictures all gray and I just -- it was too surreal, I didn't believe it. Stupidly, I didn't believe it. It's almost like when you hear your own voice recorded because it sound like you.


SHAFMAN: And then I ran into another friend who I'd known since in 4- years-old, who is in the film, and he was shaking. And he said this is you, this is real. And the gravity just -- it sunk in.

So, I got home. My mother had another newspaper without a picture but she had the all the information terms of the adoption agency, the hospital, the birthday. And she knew it was real. And I got on the phone, called information. Bobby had an enlisted number, I got Eddie's number called and, "Hi, is Eddie there?" And his mother said, "Who's this". She was apparently -- she probably inundated with press at that point. So she wasn't really friendly or in fuzzy (ph). And I explained to her and then look at newspaper and I don't think their twins -- I think I'm the third.

COOPER: I guess what was the most meaningful part of making this film? Why did you want to take part in this?

KELLMAN: When we first got together, you know, David would agree with this, that we were just -- we were overjoyed for meeting with each other. And thinking adult rationale people would say, "Aren't you angry?" Our parents were angry as a group and individual that this had been done.

We were just overjoyed that we had got each other. And a lot of things had gone by in the last 39 years, you know, and I think that we got to a point in time where it was appropriate time to tell the story and that (INAUDIBLE) --

SHAFMAN: We grew up. We got married. We had children. We have an entirely different perspective in life than you do when you're 19 and we just want to have fun.

COOPER: Right.

KELLMAN: And it was a parent's job to be angry. A parent's job to follow up.

COOPER: Thank you so much. It's really an honor to meet you.

KELLMAN: Thank you.

SHAFMAN: Thank is ours.

COOPER: You know, it's really blown away by the times --


WHITFIELD: And thanks to Anderson, David and Bobby for that interview. Be sure to tune in, the award winning CNN original film "Three Identical Strangers" premieres tomorrow, 9 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

All right, hello again everyone and thank you so much for being with me this Saturday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. All right we start with this, the temporary relief from the historic partial U.S. government shutdown.