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CONNECT THE WORLD
Juan Guaido Calls for New Anti-Maduro Protests; Hunger and Seething Anger Grip a Once Rich Country; Maduro Rejects Election Ultimatum from European Countries; Trump Tries to Distance Himself from Roger Stone; U.S. and Taliban Agree in Principle to Peace Framework; U.N. Human Rights Team Arrives in Turkey to Investigate Killing of Jamal Khashoggi; Debate and Vote on Prime Minister May's Plan Set for Tuesday; The Man Bringing "Order!" to the U.K. Parliament. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired January 28, 2019 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00] HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN HOST: Hello there, welcome to CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones live from London for the next hour.
We begin the show then with a nation tearing itself apart. Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido has called for massive nationwide protests on
Wednesday and Saturday in an effort to put pressure on President Nicolas Maduro to step aside. Mr. Maduro though shows no signs of backing down,
and still appears at least to have the support of the military, although Guaido we should say is currently in negotiations with military leaders.
And then of course, there are the people.
Venezuela is a nation suffering from extreme poverty, where hunger is a way of life for millions. CNN's Nick Payton Walsh has gone undercover in some
of the places hit hardest by all of this suffering. Nick joins me now live from Bogota in neighboring Columbia with more on this. Nick, nearly a week
under cover. What have you discovered?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's important to remember that while a lot of this crisis in Venezuela is framed as sort of
a reignited cold war between Moscow's interest supporting the Maduro government and the U.S. decision to recognize Juan Guaido the interim
President self-declared. Really on the streets that politics is significantly less important. People are dealing with a daily crisis of an
emergency of hunger really. Of working out where their next meal will come from. Startling to behold that kind of crisis amidst glittering
infrastructure from a time when this was a very wealthy petro state barely a decade ago. I should point out, in some of the scenes you're about to
see here in this report, many people wanted to be anonymous out of fear. And because of how we film, there were technical issues. I mean, the audio
isn't as amazing as it could have been. But this is how a week inside Venezuela also looked like.
WALSH (voice-over): Cross into Venezuela as on ending disaster, the world's worst growing refugee crisis. And it's like the world as you know
it is slowly ending. Oil once made them the richest in South America. But this is now the line for three days and nights, to get a full tank. In the
capital, there's a cue for everything, everywhere. Hunger breeds a special kind of anger.
(on camera): This is how hyperinflation works. These groceries cost $50 now because of what's happening with the local currency. They will be
worth double at least by next month. People tend to (INAUDIBLE) prices today.
(voice-over) There's no cueing for the youngest living off of what even here, nobody wants.
This isn't play. This's practice for self-defense.
My brother got killed in July by another gang, says 14-year-old Ismailia. They found the body in the river. We gather stuff. We beg. A piece of
chicken skin. To take home. In the socialist utopia, it now leaves nearly every stomach empty.
This was the day when change was meant to come. Hundreds of thousands flooding central Caracas watching opposition leader Juan Guaido swear
himself in as interim President. But it fast turned sour. They had this standoff outside the military airfield here for months. But this is the
first time with an opposition leader claiming the presidency. All eyes were on the Army and whether it too would rise up.
(on camera): The question really in the standoff, it is about military's hope. And throwing stones at here but what they really need is the army to
(voice-over): That didn't happen. And the police tear gas and motorcycle charges, sent us fleeing down side streets. Some likely wounded, although
dozens reported dead during the day. It was up here, in the normally loyal slums where the fight was nastiest.
Special Forces entered these streets. They've been coming back to make arrests all during the afternoon. When we're invited to meet Carolina's
extended family, when Maduro's base has long lived. States handouts bought loyalty for years but now this. This is all she has to feed four this day.
And they say now, they too want Maduro gone.
[10:05:00] They can't hold it in anymore, one of her cousins says. We're being crushed. We're beggars now. Always begging. This isn't political.
It's survival. People are killing each other for a kilo of rice, for water. Army defectors outside Venezuela call those soldiers to rise up,
but we hear from one junior officer that even when you can't feed your family, it's more complicated.
I would say 80 percent of soldiers are against the government. Some even go to demonstrations. But the figure fish is the senior officials are the
ones eating, getting rich, while on the bottom, we have it hard. I get a dollar and a half every month, promptly enough for one chicken and a food
box from the barracks. Then we have to work magic to make it last like anyone else.
(on camera): Would you or the soldiers you know at your level, would you open fire on resistance people in the streets?
(voice-over): I would rather quit. That person could be my brother or my mother. We need a general to flip, to make a change.
And as Washington says, Maduro isn't President, but Moscow insists he is. Everyone else walks zombie-like, further and closer towards starvation.
WALSH: It's important to have a quick reality check here, while there is great discontent and fury frankly at the Maduro government inside the
country of Venezuela, that hasn't translated into a daily anger on the streets. You know, that protest you saw in that report happened last
Wednesday, and the next one is called for the following Wednesday. They come out on the streets, they're angry, they're polite, they support
Guaido, and then they go home. So we got to see really a sea change frankly in that activity, or some miraculous behind the scenes negotiation
by that interim President Juan Guaido for there to be a moment where the Maduro government begins to feel more nervous than it does now. Although
frankly how it managed to hold on to power given the gross incompetence and corruption of how he's handled the economy is staggering itself -- Hannah.
JONES: And, Nick, do you sense then that this sort of crunch moment is drawing near, be for politics, or indeed for food, that the people will
soon rise up, as Guaido is currently urging them to do?
WALSH: Well, I mean it's amazing, frankly, to see, since 18 months when I was last there, how far it has fallen now. And how frankly there hasn't
been more fury on the streets as a result of this. There's a crime wave. Estimates, just killed 80 people a day nationwide through murders. And
that's like a symptom I think really of the collapse of that entire society.
But it hasn't really dislodged the military generals. They're rank and file, as you heard there, are angry and want change, but there are still
subordinate to a general class who are making money out of the status quo now, as is Nicolas Maduro. They have to hold on the levers of power, and
more importantly food, too. Remember that soldier said, the way he feeds his family is a handout box from the barracks. That's common for
government employees. So key questions that have to be answered really are whether or not Nicolas Maduro is as comfortable in that position with the
military as he seems to be. How lengthy support for him as a character will be? Rather as a state that's allied to them.
But we do have to I think see protests on the street take on a different kind of form, a different kind of permanence if that indeed is the way that
Juan Guaido thinks he wants to move forward in terms of dislodging Nicolas Maduro or some miraculous behind the scenes negotiation. Perhaps the
military that really makes the Maduro government feel uneasy. It's pretty comfortable it seems now -- Hannah.
JONES: Nick, we appreciate your reporting on this. Nick Payton Walsh reporting there live from Columbia, neighboring of course to Venezuela.
Thanks very much indeed, Nick.
Now, against the backdrop of the poverty that we just heard about is of course the struggle for control of Venezuela, a struggle that involves
Washington, Moscow and even the Bank of England. Here is the very latest with the journalist, Stefano Pozzebon, who is in Caracas, Venezuela.
STEFANO POZZEBON, JOURNALIST: Yes, Hannah, the opposition is trying to isolate Nicolas Maduro even further and in particular, to prevent him from
using the Venezuelan assets that are kept abroad. That's why Juan Guaido brought to the Bank of England, asking not to deliver to Nicolas Maduro
$1.2 billion worth of gold that are still kept in the vaults of the Bank of England gold.
On the other side, Nicolas Maduro again reiterated that he thinks the actions by Juan Guaido, the pressure that the international community is
putting on him, is a coup, originated by the United States, and that the White House is directly behind the actions of the Venezuelan opposition.
At the same time, the Kremlin has dismissed reports that Maduro had employed the Russian mercenaries, as its security details here in Caracas,
[10:10:00] But again, we see pressure mounting up yet again this week, with new protests called by Juan Guaido and by the Venezuelan opposition on
Wednesday, and then later on Saturday. The street, the people of Venezuela, will go back on to the street. The key element to put even
further pressure on Nicolas Maduro and on the military pathways, to try to break through this stalemate and force a negotiating table --Hannah.
JONES: Stefano Pozzebon reporting for us there from Caracas in Venezuela. Now the Venezuelan-American lawyer, writer and journalist, Eva Golinger,
joins us now live from New York. Eva, thanks very much for being with us on the program. And you've written quite extensively about your experience
of having the ear of autocrats, in particular Nicolas Maduro predecessor Hugo Chavez. Given that, what do you think Nicolas Maduro is currently
EVA GOLINGER, VENEZUELAN-AMERICAN LAWYER (via Skype): Oh, I think there is no question that he is not relinquishing power unless it is by force. They
are digging in deeper. They believe that they have the legitimacy to remain in power. That they have the support of the necessary elements of
the armed forces. And of a strong sector of Venezuelan people that are hard core behind him, as supporters. Ideological, as well as just in
general, opposed to a U.S. military intervention.
But I think that's where things are heading. I think that the threats coming out of Washington are very serious, and that in fact, they've died
at this point, because there is no question, this is a regime change operation. They're not trying to cover that up. I don't think that when
Maduro denounces that there is a coup in the process against him, that anyone should discount that as a conspiracy theory. It's open and
explicit. And you know, I think that what is going on is that there are many who are backing that and saying that his government is illegitimate,
but the country is in such dire state, severe crisis, that it is time for him to go. And you know, the main point here is that some of that
provocation is enabling Maduro even further and rallying his support around him. But I do think that at this stage at least, he is not just going to
give up power and walk out.
JONES: Yes, we should be clear I guess that Donald Trump has said that military intervention is still an option on the table. He hasn't said that
that is exactly what is going to happen. But interesting to hear you say that, you think that Nicolas Maduro is preparing for that kind of external
intervention. With that, though, it is not just the United States who are kind of on the Juan Guaido -- in the Juan Guaido camp at the moment. What
do you think other Western nations, for example, will do, if Trump does take the lead with some kind of military intervention? Because he's not
the most predictable of Presidents. So will people feel comfortable about following suits?
GOLINGER: He's very similar -- Trump is very similar, in fact, to Nicolas Maduro, I wrote about it in an op-ed in "The New York Times" and in my book
that I just published, "Confidante of 'Tyrants'". Where I refer specifically not just to Chavez in that experience as his adviser and
friend, but also to the similarities between Trump and Maduro. And part of is that lack of strategic vision, the impulsive and erratic behavior.
But at the same time, this is an ongoing escalation of U.S. policy towards Venezuela. And it is a regime change operation that has widespread
support, bipartisan, and of course, you know, that Washington has built a coalition around the world, in Western nations, and throughout Latin
America. Which I think is the key here, is the fact that we've seen violent uprisings against Maduro, we saw them against Chavez, we saw a coup
in 2002. They failed primarily because, A, they didn't have enough support in Venezuela, or from the military, but also, in the region, in Latin
America. And that has changed dramatically. Now, the majority of the region supports the ouster of Nicolas Maduro. So the question will be, is
that pressure sufficient to proceed towards some kind of negotiated solution in transition? Or will it end in a violent confrontation? Which
as of right now looks like where things are heading.
JONES: You mentioned that you think the U.S. policy towards Venezuela has long been about regime change. Do you think that's largely or solely to do
with the oil-rich minerals that the country has? And if it does turn out to that, could we see Venezuela being essentially a proxy war for the likes
of the U.S. and Russia?
GOLINGER: It's possible. Though I'm not sure to what extent Russia would take those interests forward and engage in some kind of cold war, or other
type of conflict with the United States over Venezuela. Certainly, Venezuela is a geopolitical battlefield. I referred to it that way
previously because of the fact that it is not just the fact that it does possess the world's largest oil reserve -- crude oil reserves -- and as
well as gas, and other gold, and natural resources and minerals. It's also the port of South America. It's geo strategy location, that is of utmost
importance for the United States to remain control and dominance over that area. It is right south of the U.S. border.
[10:15:00] And, you know, it controls a large maritime territory that borders with Puerto Rico. So I think the U.S. is looking more to recoup
its influence in the region.
JONES: Great to get your perspective. We appreciate your analysis. Eva Golinger live for us there in New York, thank you.
GOLINGER: Thank you.
JONES: Now, still ahead on the program, a crippling U.S. government shutdown is over. But Donald Trump and Democrats are already facing a new
deadline to try to reach that so far elusive budget deal or indeed the U.S. President could follow through on threats to evoke emergency powers. Stay
with us for more on that.
ANDERSON: You're watching CNN. This is CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones in London for you. Welcome back.
It is back to business as usual today, for hundreds of thousands of U.S. special workers. But the clock is already ticking towards yet another
possible government shutdown. President Donald Trump and Congressional Democrats have less than three weeks to reach a deal on his demand for a
border wall. If the stalemate continues, Mr. Trump says he'd be willing to endure another shutdown, or he may even declare a national emergency.
The President meanwhile is trying to distance himself from Roger Stone, after his long-time political adviser was indicted in the Russia
investigation. Court filings show Stone was communicating with senior Trump campaign officials about WikiLeaks, dumps of hacked e-mails from the
DNC. Let's bring in CNN senior Washington correspondent, Joe Jones, who's live at the White House for us. Joe, good see you. Let's talk about the
border wall standoff to start off with. The President has been keen to take to Twitter and said there is no way he caved in to this. Is that just
alternative facts from this White House? Or is it still actually plausible that in just three weeks' time they might actually get and agree to fund
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: It's very difficult right now to see how the President gets his wall. Democrats in the House of
Representatives have made it very clear that a majority of the majority there is not interested in funding a border barrier for the President. He
said as much in an interview with "The Wall Street Journal" over the weekend, indicating he thinks the chances are less than 50/50, that the
Congress will come up with something that he can sign that satisfies him.
So the second alternative for him would be to declare a national emergency, and that would make available certain funds, pots of money, that might not
otherwise be available.
[10:20:05] However, if the President were to do that, it is all but assured that Democrats, who oppose this idea, would go to court, say it is not
appropriate, it's not an emergency. Which means this wall that the President promised -- in fact, promised that Mexico I would pay for --
could be stuck in the courts, as we approach the re-election season -- Hannah.
JONES: And Joe, let's talk about Roger Stone then. He was speaking to CNN, I think it was just last Friday, talking about this whole idea of
collusion or no collusion, and the Mueller investigation. Let's listen to what he has to say and we will speak after that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROGER STONE, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISOR: As you know, perjury requires both materiality and intent. There is none. But secondarily, where's the
Russian collusion, Chris? Where's the WikiLeaks collaboration? Where's the evidence that I received anything from WikiLeaks or Julian Assange and
passed it on to Donald Trump or the Trump campaign. Simply does not exist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: And so Roger Stone clearly there enjoying his moment in the political limelight. The President though starting to distance himself
from his friend, former friend. Might it still be the case that we see Roger Stone flip on Donald Trump?
JONES: Well, from his own words, over the weekend, as you said, he's made multiple television appearances. In fact, he just got off of TV here in
the United States, scarcely 15 minutes ago. That limelight as you describe, a pretty harsh light for anyone who has been indicted in federal
court. However, he seems to be making the best of it. He has said that in his view, there is only one thing worse than being talked about, and that's
not being talked about.
But here's the thing. He said over the weekend that he might even consider cooperating with the Special Counsel, which is a far cry from some of the
things he said before. He's also indicated that he would not bear false witness against the President, but that doesn't rule out the possibility of
talking to the Special Counsel, if he finds out that there has in fact, been some cooperation, between the campaign, and Russia. Of course, there
are people who would argue that the Special Counsel has come pretty close to establishing that, with all of the other indictments, and people he's
brought in to talk to, over the course of this long investigation -- Hannah.
JONES: And Joe, just finally, some newcomers entering into the Presidential race already for 2020, Kamala Harris among them. She's had
some quite harsh rhetoric when it comes to the tone of American politics. Let's listen to what she had to say. Oh, I don't think we have it. But
anyway, perhaps you can explain for our viewers, Joe, what Kamala Harris had to say about the fact that America can do better than what it is
JONES: She said it repeatedly, not only that America could do better, she also talked in terms of "we" which is sometimes very different from what
the President had to say. Clearly trying to create just, a bit of division between the way she'll run her campaign and the way President Trump has run
the country. So she is setting herself up, as a strong critic of the President, and we haven't heard a lot from this President about Kamala
Harris, but I expect we will.
JONES: I'm sure we will. Joe Johns, thanks very much indeed. Live for us there from White House. We appreciate it, Joe.
And now, the Trump administration has lifted sanctions on three Russian firms with ties to a controversial Russian oligarch. The U.S. Treasury
Department says the companies were initially sanctioned because of their control by Oleg Deripaska, not for their own conduct. The Department adds
that all three firms have made significant changes to diminish the Russian billionaire's ownership. Meanwhile, individual sanctions on Oleg Deripaska
do remain intact.
Now to other news and an update on the peace negotiations between the United States and the Taliban. The American envoy to Afghanistan says the
United States and Taliban officials have agreed in principle to the framework of a peace deal. The two groups have been in talks over the past
several day, as CNN's Nic Robertson joins me now in London to pick through the broader terms of this deal. What have they agreed?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: I think part of the headline here is that Khalilzad has been talking with Taliban officials.
But he hasn't been talking with the most senior person in the Taliban. He has been talking with the number two, Mullah Baradar. In fact, this
interlocutor who's been appointed by the Taliban last week as their number two figure and as their main interlocutor with Khalilzad, making him Mullah
Baradar, the head of Taliban's political commission that's based in Doha, a long way outside of Afghanistan. So what Mullah Baradar has the authority
to do is to talk and negotiate with Zalmay Khalilabad.
[10:25:00] But not necessarily be able to sign off on a deal. So while Khalilabad and that part of the Taliban have an understanding and the
understanding is quite clear and both sides know this. That it would be a cease fire, followed by a discussion between U.S. and Taliban, about
complete withdrawal of U.S. forces. And in part with that, would follow on immediately, there would be Taliban, Afghan, political negotiations.
Now, the expectation was that this might all go swimmingly well. But the reality is that the Taliban sort of field commanders, if you will, haven't
been brought into this process. So what we understand at the moment has sort of been ground to a halt because there is a section of the Taliban
leadership in the South of Afghanistan that are opposing progress, because they don't trust the United States. It sounds like a negotiation.
Khalilabad has made real steps where predecessors have failed. So this is an advancement but it is not over the key hurdle yet.
JONES: We shouldn't run before you can walk, I guess. And it's interesting you mentioned there that facet of troop withdrawal. That's
been something that we've heard so much from this Trump administration as well, as being a priority. Do you think that because of what we've seen
for what we've heard announced at least in Syria, that that's why these talks in Afghanistan have maybe had a boost?
ROBERTSON: Well I mean, I think we certainly know from Zalmay Khalilabad's point of view, that he will recognize that he has a finite ability and
amount of time to convince President Trump not to withdraw all U.S. troops. And the concern is if the U.S. was to pull out troop, then the Afghan
government would fall, the Taliban would back in power and we know there are Al Qaeda elements, sleeper cells if you will, existing being fed and
equipped inside Taliban areas. So the implication would be they would be back in Kabul if this deal didn't go through.
So in essence, Khalilabad's under a lot of pressure here and he is a politician who has been in top negotiating positions before. He knows
Afghanistan well. Knows interlocutors in Pakistan well. As somebody who can make a difference and deliver. But he recognizes the cost of getting
this wrong. So what he has to be able to do in his sort of own domestic political environment in the U.S. is convince Trump that he's got a
workable deal. And that essentially, he can pull it off within the time limitations of Trump's remaining time in office. Because if he doesn't
it's really attractive to the President. Because for the President he'd like to be able to be the one to finish the war in Afghanistan. This
longest running war the U.S. has had. But as I say, the down side, the downside is if Khalilabad can't do it, there is that potential that
President Trump could do what he did in Syria, and say OK, I going to pull the troops out. You know. Done.
JONES: We just don't know. We wait and see. Nick, thanks very much for explaining all that to us. We appreciate it.
Live from London, this is CONNECT THE WORLD. Still to come on the program, seeking justice, after Jamal Khashoggi's murder. A U.N. human rights team
heads to Turkey to investigate what actually happened to him. We speak to one of his friends about whether he thinks justice will be done. That
interview coming up next.
[10:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JONES: Welcome back to CONNECT THE WORLD. Time for a quick recap of our top story now. Venezuela is bracing for more massive protests this week,
after the opposition leader, Juan Guaido, urged his supporters to take to the streets. The protests are planned for Wednesday and Saturday. Their
goal is to put pressure on President Nicolas Maduro who appears to still have the backing of the Venezuelan military. He oversaw military exercises
on Sunday. Maduro though is also asking the Bank of England to release more than a billion worth of gold, deposited there by Venezuela. So far,
the bank is refusing to do that.
Let's turn to some other news now. It has been nearly five months since the journalist Jamal Khashoggi walked into the Saudi consulate in Istanbul,
and never emerged. It has since been established that Mr. Khashoggi was murdered by a hit squad from Saudi Arabia. But many questions surrounding
his death remain unanswered.
Today, a team of U.N. human rights investigators arrived in Turkey to try to answer some of those questions. The group is led by the U.N.'s special
representative on extrajudicial executions. U.S. intelligence has concluded that the Saudi Crown Prince, MBS, directed Mr. Khashoggi's
murder. But Saudi officials deny all of those claims. For more on this, I'm joined by Galip Dalay. Galip is a visiting research scholar at the
University of Oxford, specializing in Turkish politics. Also, a friend of Jamal Khashoggi and you remain a close friend of Jamal's fiance, Hatice, as
well. Thank you very much for coming in and talking to us. So this U.N. probe, this independent investigation, why now? Who called for it? And
does its very existence imply that there is something wrong with the Turkish investigation?
GALIP DALAY, VISITING SCHOLAR, UNIVERSITY OF OXFORD: Well, the special report was invited by Turkey. But as far as I know there hasn't been any
official investigation within the premise of the U.N., neither by -- neither requested by any member country nor by anybody. But the special
reporter went to Turkey at the invitation of Turkey. So, right now what I see, what does that mean, because we have two parallel trials is ongoing.
One of them in Saudi Arabia, which is basically the mockery of a trial because in the hands of the person who has been accused of and the person
the head of intelligence is Mohammed bin Salman. So actually, no one is expecting him to investigate himself.
JONES: This is individuals on trial in Saudi Arabia.
DALAY: Exactly, there are individuals on trial. Lower ranking individuals on trial. But the political connection, because in the end, his murder has
been well established, it is a state-sanctioned murder. It is a political motivated murder. And with an order from the top of the Saudi Arabia,
Mohammed bin Salman, according to many intelligence reports. So therefore, no one can really expect any serious trial to take place. What in Turkey
has a trouble because right now the permission to go inside the Saudi embassy has not been granted.
DALAY: Still. And the U.N. special reporter also has been asking to be able to enter the Saudi consulate and she said thus far they have not
received any reply from Saudi Arabia.
[10:35 :00]That is more or less blocking it, because right now, the whole premise is on the embassy, on the residents, on the consulate, on the
residents of the consulate general, and we have no access to them.
JONES: And we should remind our viewers as well, that nearly five months on and we still don't have Jamal's body, or his remains, or anything like
that. So of course, his family, who you know well, and Hatice, his fiance as well, who are presumably been wanting to bury Jamal for all this time,
having been able to do so. What do they hope will comes out of this?
DALAY: Well, I think the clearest that you know, when you have someone, we know is dead, the person that you want is to be able to bury it, to know
that there is someplace that you can go to visit. Right now there is complete uncertainty, what has happened to the body, what is it, cut into
piece, was it, you know, burned by acids. Because there are like conflicting reports that is emerging.
JONES: There are some very disturbing reports.
DALAY: Horrifying. And right now I think the basic demand is to be able to go inside, see what has happened, establish the facts, and
unfortunately, that can't be left to a bilateral presence between Turkey and Saudi Arabia. It has to be a U.N. international investigation.
JONES: What possible repercussions could there be for Mohammed bin Salman the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia and the Saudi Royal family as a whole,
given the fact that there is now this U.N., United Nations effort inside Turkey?
DALAY: Well right now, it's not a U.N. official investigation yet. It is like a fact-finding mission that is taking place in Turkey. And it's yet
to turn into a U.N.-led international investigation.
JONES: But I suppose my question is then, would Saudi Arabia be particularly concerned about this latest development?
DALAY: I think Saudi Arabia will be concerned. But we have to make a distinction between Mohammed bin Salman and Saudi Arabia. I feel like
there shouldn't be any problems for Saudi Arabia. It's not Saudi Arabia on trial. It is like the one that killed, that ordered the murder of Jamal
Khashoggi that needs to go on trial. And if it is established according to many intelligence that is already established it is Mohammed bin Salman.
This case will follow him quite throughout his life as well. And I mean, I can't imagine many places that there will be cases like there are universal
jurisdictions that will not be filed against him. So it is highly likely this case will stay -- stick with him in one way or another for a long
Final question and just very briefly if you can, Galip. Do you believe that justice will be done as far as Jamal Khashoggi is concerned?
DALAY: Well, I want to believe that it will be done. Because if it's not, that's a terrible news for journalists, for intelligence, anywhere in the
world. And for justice to be done, it should not be just like, you know, just some lower ranking official, it should be the one who ordered it. And
it seems it is Mohammed bin Salman and he has to face it.
Galip Dalay, we appreciate you coming in and talking to us. Thank you.
DALAY: Thank you.
JONES: Now, in the U.K. -- here in the U.K., the winter of discontent continue. On Tuesday, the Parliament will debate Theresa May's latest
Brexit plan and then have vote on a range of amendments which could take the entire process out of the Prime Minister's hands. If passed some of
the amendments could shift control to Parliament altogether, giving it the power to block, delay and, of course, possibly renegotiate anything deal
with the EU. Bianca Nobilo outside Parliament in London for us now. Bianca, there are many -- a whole raft of amendments to talk through. But
can you broadly explain what we might hear, and what we might get a vote on tomorrow?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, of course, Hannah, there are about 14. And they'll be selected, the few that are going to be voted on by
Speaker of the House of Commons. This is entirely at his discretion. Now the ones that seem to be garnering the most support and the most signatures
are likely to be the ones that are chosen. But we never really can predict that for sure.
They're broadly divided into two camps. There is the amendment by Brexiteers who want to see the backstop, that controversial insurance
policy to prevent the hard border on the island of Ireland removed from the withdrawal agreement or replaced with an alternative arrangement. That's
been backed by a very influential figure within the Prime Minister's own party that's in charge of sort of keeping her back benches in check and
communicating what they want.
There is also on the other side, an amendment, which is being talked about a lot by Yvette Cooper and also another by Dame Caroline Spellman. Those
are seeking to prohibit no deal in any circumstances. So Cooper's, for example, if there's no Brexit deal agreed by the 26th of February, by the
House of Commons, then the U.K. has to ask the European Union for an extension. Whether or not they grant that remains to be seen.
But the other amendment I mentioned by Caroline Spellman is simply a way for MP's to register the fact that they want to avoid a no deal at no cost
and that if selected it looks like it is likely to get the biggest amount of support in Parliament.
JONES: And we should say though that what we see tomorrow unfold, will not in any way be a meaningful vote. Which has been the term bandied around so
much. Nothing that comes from tomorrow, will actually be binding on the government, right?
[10:40:00] NOBILO: That's correct. So none of these amendments will be legally binding. But you can imagine that the political pressure will
exert upon the Prime Minister. Now in any kind of normal circumstance, or if the Prime Minister was overseeing a majority government, then it would
be easier to kind of back that pressure away. But it is not. Theresa May has been in a vulnerable position since she lost her majority of the
election in 2017. Not only that, her party is sort of, looks very fractured itself, and she relies on the DUP for support, so she really
can't ignore Parliament expressing its will.
They also do have a Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow, who has articulated on many occasions that he wants to champion Parliament, and
back benches and reduce the power of the executives. So he's likely to support Parliament in its efforts to try and hold the government to
account. So no, they're not legally binding. And in a way, they are meaningful. Because they are going to heap on the political pressure on
the Prime Minister and some of the Brexiteers at least, Hannah, have expressed to me, that they think if one of their amendments is selected and
there is a big show of support for it that Theresa May might be able to go back to Brussels and say look, look, if you can tweak the backstop or
remove it -- very, very unlikely -- than I can get this deal through Parliament. Because she can show them the numbers in black and white, and
say if you help me here, I'm pretty sure I can get a deal through. But like I said, we need to wait to see what is selected tomorrow and then who
supports it. Plenty of questions.
JONES: Plenty of questions. Hoping to answer many of them with you tomorrow, Bianca, when I will be joining you there in the cold of
Westminster. Thanks very much. Now Bianca was just talking about obviously the Brexit debate and who is going to be overseen by. This is
someone that the world is becoming increasingly familiar with, Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow. Not too many the strange man in a gown
who shouts "order" at regular intervals, is all he does. So, who actually is he then? Bianca went to find out.
JOHN BERCOW, SPEAKER, HOUSE OF COMMONS: Order. Order. Order.
NOBILO (voice-over): The Speaker of the House. Part referee.
BERCOW: Order. Please. Members must calm themselves. I've often advised taking some sort of soothing medicine. People may feel better in
NOBILO: Part disciplinarian.
BERCOW: I say to you, and I say in the kindest possible spirit, don't tell me what the procedures of this House are.
NOBILO: Part champion of the Commons.
BERCOW: This House must seize back control of its own core functions.
NOBILO: Being Speaker has never been easy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The historians here will know that some seven Speakers lost their heads for championing the Commons against the executives.
NOBILO: John Bercow is perhaps the most colorful of Speakers in the modern era from his ties to his unusual turn of phrase.
Zen. The House must calm itself.
NOBILO: He has tried to modernize procedures but also address the David against Goliath struggle of MP's, against the powerful machine of
BERCOW: If there are five words that I would like carved on my political tombstone -- they are, he was the back-bench's champion.
NOBILO: The back benches are just that. Members of all parties without an official role. But suddenly, they are empowered as Theresa May can't get a
majority for her Brexit deal. Some have criticized the way the Speaker has handled the debate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will have an unshakeable conviction that the referee is no longer neutral.
BERCOW: I have always been scrupulously fair to Brexiteers and Remainers alike. As I have always been to people of different opinions, or
miscellany of other issues.
ANDERSON: Speaker Bercow has also gained reputation for being tough with government ministers. But some think that's healthy.
VINCE CABLE, LEADER, LIBERAL DEMOCRATS: He is sometimes hard on ministers but he is also hard on back benches who waffle and can be quite abrupt if
people are so self-indulgent. And he is tough on ministers who don't respect the House, and don't respect back benches.
NOBILO: Speaker Bercow is no stranger to headlines. He welcomed President Obama to Westminster Hall, but not his successor.
BERCOW: After the imposition of the migrant ban by President Trump, I am even more strongly opposed to an address by President Trump in Westminster
NOBILO: Once again, he is at the eye of the storm with the U.K. heading for a no deal Brexit, and a minority government struggling with a mutantist
Parliament. On Tuesday, the House votes on the Prime Minister's latest Brexit plan.
[10:45:00] The Speaker's role in selecting amendments from back benches, will influence not just the sort of deal that emerges but when and even
whether the U.K. will finalize its European divorce.
BERCOW: Order. Order. Order.
NOBILO: Bianca Nobilo, CNN, London.
JONES: All right, let's get you up to speed now on some of the other stories that are on our radar. The death toll from Friday's dam collapse
in Brazil is up to 60 people. Hundreds though remain missing. Most of the victims were mine workers. President Jair Bolsonaro has vowed to do
whatever it takes to find the missing people. Israel has dispatched a rescue team to help with the search.
Three people are dead after a tornado tore through Havana, Cuba on Sunday night. The capital was hit with winds of 100 kilometers per hour. More
than 172 people suffered injuries as a result. Havana was left in complete darkness as emergency crews worked to restore order.
ISIS has claimed responsibility for Sunday's church bombing in the town of Jolo in the Philippines. At least 20 people were killed in the terror
attack. And the city is locked down for security reasons. Two devices detonated, the first was set off inside the cathedral, and the second
targeted soldiers who were trying to help civilians from the first.
Live from London, this is CONNECT THE WORLD. Still to come this hour, there are those who seek shelter from the storm, and then there are those
who walk straight on into it. Stay with us to see how some people in northern Japan deal with a blizzard.
JONES: You're watching CNN. This is CONNECT THE WORLD with me Hannah Vaughan Jones live in London. Welcome back to you.
Now this week on the show, we're exploring one of the snowiest places on the planet, northern Japan. During the winter, cold air masses from
Siberia blow towards the Tohoku region, sometimes blanketing it with more than six meters of snow. Now in the second part of our series, destination
Tohoku, we head to the top of one of Japan's most remote mountains, with back country slopes suited for only the most daring of skiers.
BILL WEIR, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When the winter snow starts falling in Japan's northern Tohoku region, a blizzard is never far
behind. That's when most local residents find shelter indoors. Not Yutaka Ono.
YUTAKA ONO, SNOW HIKER (through translator): What I like about snow hiking is the winter scenery. Nature is beautiful. I love it. It is like a
Japanese ink painting in black and white, in a world of silence.
[10:50:00] WEIR: Ono is show shoe tracking through the Hokkaido mountains. A series of volcanic peaks in the remote Aomori Prefecture. It's one of
the snowiest, most wild places on earth. The hotels, trees, even street lamps are buried in snow. For skiers, a coat of powder is the stuff of
dreams. Many of the runs are on back country slopes suitable for only the most daring.
TIM ROBERTS, TOURIST: This place is a little different because there aren't very many cat runs into the mountains. It's a real kind of choose
your own adventure, find your own path. It's very interesting.
WEIR: Despite sub-zero winds, finding warmth here isn't hard. Thermal springs bubble across the mountain. People have bathed in onsens, as
they're known here, for centuries. A winter wonderland, yes. But Japanese history also remembers Hokkaido as a place of disaster where the cold
claims the lives of a military expedition gone wrong over a century ago.
ONO (through translator): The landscape can be both beautiful and severe. This is Hokkaido and that's the nature of nature. But it's something I
want visitors to experience, enjoy here through guides like me.
WEIR: Snowy, wild and for Ono a world of silence worth the trek.
JONES: Beautiful scenes there. We are going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
JONES: You are still watching CNN and CONNECT THE WORLD, I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones. Welcome back to you.
There was a surprise at one of Hollywood's biggest award shows on Sunday night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And Actor goes to "Black Panther". Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: "Black Panther" as you heard there won best cast at the Screen Actors Guild Award, beating films like a "Star is Born " and "Bohemian
Rhapsody". Actors make up the largest branch of the Academy Awards so this price could indicate "Black Panther" has a good shot at some Oscar success.
The star of "Black Panther" said the film is an important step for diversity in Hollywood.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHADWICK BOSEMAN, ACTOR, "BLACK PANTHER": We all know what it is like to be told that there is not a place for you to be featured, yet you are
young, gifted and black. We knew, not that we would be around during award season or that it would make a billion dollars, but we knew that we had
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Other SAG winners included "Bohemian Rhapsody's" Rami Malek for best actor and also, Glenn Close who won best actress for "The Wife".
[10:55:02] Now, in tonight's parting shots, a truly Canadian moment. We all know the winters can be harsh and can cause dangerous icy conditions on
the roads, particularly in the great white north. Sometimes leading them to major accidents. Like this, which was a 50-car pileup. Now,
fortunately, no one was injured. But the accident did cause massive traffic jams.
But no problem though for these travelers outside Montreal who got a little creative in how to pass the time. Turning the closed highway -- yes, as
you can see there -- into their very own ice hockey rink. Playing a little three on three while the crash was cleared up. Good way to pass time
Well then, I'm Hannah Vaughn Jones, live in London for you. That was CONNECT THE WORLD. Thanks so much for watching.