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Harris Launches Campaign; Diverse Democratic Field; Schultz Mulls Run; Deadline for Shutdown; Interview with Sen. Chris Coons (D- DE). Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired January 28, 2019 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Heartburn among some Democrats who worry he could split the anti-Trump vote.

There's also news on the Hillary Clinton front, which is basically that there still is a Hillary Clinton front. CNN's Jeff Zeleny reports that Clinton is telling friends she is not closing the doors on a 2020 run.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Is venti big or small?

BERMAN: I don't -- I've never -- see, one of my complaints about Starbucks is there's tall, grande, venti and they're all big. I don't get it. It's silly and it's burnt.

Besides that --

CAMEROTA: Wow.

BERMAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: OK

Meanwhile, federal workers are back on the job this morning now that the longest government shutdown in history is over. But another shutdown maybe just around the corner. President Trump tells "The Wall Street Journal" the chances of a new deal being reached before the threat of another shutdown in just three weeks are less than 50/50. And he's again considering invoking emergency powers to fund his border wall without congressional approval.

Let's talk about it all.

BERMAN: Yes, joining us now, Michael Smerconish, the host of CNN's "Smerconish," former Republican member of Congress Mia Love, and John Avlon, CNN's senior political analyst.

I want to play a little bit more of the announcement from Kamala Harris. And what struck me was her word choice, how she kept on saying we, we, we, inclusive. Listen to what she says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We all stand together.

It's about we the people.

We rise together or we fall together as one nation indivisible.

I'll fight for an America where we keep our word and where we honor our promises, because that's our America. And that's the America I believe in. That's the America I know we believe in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Now, Representative Love, you are not accustomed to weighing in on Democratic presidential primaries, but I am curious how you assess this as a rollout yesterday in the message she was sending.

MIA LOVE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think the inclusive type of message, the we, I used it a lot because I wanted people to feel like this wasn't just about me, this was about them. And so when we talk about we, I remember even using words like, the America I know. This is the America that we have grown up in. And so I think that using that inclusive language is good.

I think when it comes down to it, after you get people to come along with you, you've got to figure out what -- OK, what are the policies? What's going to change? How are you going to differentiate yourself from the other candidates that are in the field? And it looks like there are going to be a lot of them.

CAMEROTA: Well, I think that in some of the things she said yesterday, she didn't talk about policies I mean much, but she did talk about themes. And so let me play for you, Michael, what it sounds like are the themes that she will focus on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And as we embark on this campaign, I will tell you this, I am not perfect. Lord knows I am not perfect. But I will always speak with decency and moral clarity and treat all people with dignity and respect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: She went on, I think the next sentence talked about how -- and I will tell you the truth. So truth, moral clarity, dignity, these are the things that she's going to be hitting and, you know, is, I guess, is that enough? Are people so hungry for those themes that that is what will launch her to the top of the field?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, in a word it was all about contrast. It was Kamala Harris trying to portray herself in starkly different terms to the president of the United States.

Here's an observation that I think has gone unnoticed thus far today. California has heretofore been an irrelevancy in the nomination process. That has changed. That June presidential primary has been moved forward. California will now be included in Super Tuesday in early March. And when Iowa voters caucus, California voters that day will begin voting, voting early. So "x" the unknown here, is if Kamala Harris, if she can carry her home state and do it by congressional district, because that's how they vote, could come out of the gate early in the process with a lot of delegates.

BERMAN: You know, it was so funny, Michael, you are not the first person to bring that up this show, but it only goes to prove what political junkies see in all of this is something sometimes different than everyone else. California, a huge treasure trove of delegates to be had there.

John, it's a big Democratic field. A very big Democratic field. Going to get bigger. Maybe even as soon as this week.

An announcement like this, does it give anyone pause if you're Beto O'Rourke, still mulling over, you know, which truck stop is going to be the place for your next coffee? Do you maybe pause and say, hey, this is going to be hard to go up against?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Beto O'Rourke's bet (ph) poetry fascination I think has its own lane right now.

Look, if you really have the fire if the belly, you -- other folks getting in is not going to make a decision for you. The difference is that Kamala Harris really does have a clear differentiation in what is already a crowded field. And while she can bridge the different wings of the party, because she's got a background in law and order as attorney general that will be controversial, some folks on the far left -- but I think she's incredibly well positioned.

[07:05:12] Remember, historically, the Democratic Party goes for the hot hand, not the person next in line. And so I think there's going to be a lot of momentum towards Kamala Harris. And the messages yesterday, we, truth, a real character-driven narrative where her biography is something that can reunite the nation echoes of Barack Obama in that, I think she's going to be top tier right out of the gate.

And to Michael's point, the fact that Iowa's in February, and Super Tuesday is going to include California in March, this is all strike -- strike -- setting up to be an incredibly compact and she's going to be one of the real players in this race, I think (ph).

CAMEROTA: Mia, what do you think, does she scare away other people right now considering?

LOVE: I don't think she scares anybody away. I do agree with the assessment of character. I think that that's one of the things that Republican have been frustrated with. It's the -- we don't like what's going on with Twitter. We don't like the words. We don't like the indecent or the comments that really make people feel like they're not included in this -- in this great American plan that the current president may have.

So I think that character, I mean, gosh, Republicans, that was one of the things that Republicans always defended and wanted to make sure that they kept the integrity of character. You can't just lie, you can't just, you know, make things up. It's just -- there's not a -- there's not a gray area. It's black and white. There's right and wrong. And so I think that they're capitalizing on the sentiment of what Americans are feeling.

BERMAN: It's interesting that this would be looked on upon as something that is unusual in this current climate.

All right, the three of you are actually interesting guests to have when we talk about Howard Schultz and the idea of an independent presidency because each of you in your own ways has split from party orthodoxy.

Let's listen to Howard Schultz, who was, for a long time, the CEO of Starbucks, go on "60 Minutes." He's been talking about this for years. But last night he made it more clear than ever that he is perhaps likely to enter the presidential race as an independent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD SCHULTZ, FORMER STARBUCKS CEO: I am seriously thinking of running for president. I will run as a centrist independent outside of the two-party system. We're living at a most fragile time. Not only the fact that this president is not qualified to be the president, but the fact that both parties are consistently not doing what's necessary on behalf of the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Michael, are people clambering for a Howard Schultz candidacy?

SMERCONISH: People are clamoring for a competent, independent candidacy. And why not Howard Schultz? Why should he be ruled out at this stage? You've talked about the data. The most recent static from Gallop is 39 percent -- 39 percent who self-identify as an "i" as compared to 34 percent who say they're a "d," 25 percent who say there's an "r."

I listened to Harry Enten. Sure, he's right that some of those people are strong leaners and lying because they like the panache of sounding like an independent. But let me assure you, there are many of us who really are independent and are not aligned with either party and are dying for somebody to give us other than a binary choice.

AVLON: Look, Michael and I are brothers in arms on this in terms of centrists and independents. And I think there are a plurality of Americans who are centrist and independent, who have felt politically homeless for decades and the further polarization of politics only increases that.

Now, the question is whether Howard Schultz is the right candidate and whether 2020 is the right time. I personally would rather see more centrist and independents run for the Senate to create a fulcrum strategy, for governorships, to really show that this is a viable path forward. The danger, of course, is the independent candidate can be a spoiler

at a time when it's especially high stakes. That said, the far left may be freaking out about Howard Schultz even floating a trial balloon. But the candidates on -- the independent candidates who have had the most negative impact, from their perspective, are Ralph Nader and Jill Stein, who demonstrably helped elect Republican presidents who did not govern from the center, shall we say.

BERMAN: I think they're freaked out about his $3 billion more than they're freaked out about anything else. I think that's the thing that makes them --

CAMEROTA: Which he said last night he'd be willing to spend.

BERMAN: Right.

AVLON: Yes. All of it.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean --

BERMAN: Which gets you three coffees, by the way, in Starbucks.

AVLON: Oh.

CAMEROTA: Wow.

I mean --

LOVE: I think people also are going to try and figure out what that means, because I -- you know, I think about -- if you're going to win, you're going to have to get people from the Democrat side and also the Republican side. So independent centrists, what does that mean? And it's going -- I think that there's going to be a little bit more pressure on him to kind of figure out where those policies are and how they can get some of those people to come together in the middle so he has enough of a voting base because you're just --

AVLON: I --

LOVE: You -- I don't know what that means. I don't know where they stand -- where he stands on several trade issues or other issues that really -- that are important.

AVLON: There is actually broad congruence to be the center right and left on policies much than the two wings (ph), as you just experienced. I mean from free trade, free markets. It tends to be individual liberty and generational responsibility. Two things that seem to have been abandoned by both parties.

[07:10:10] CAMEROTA: Well, look at the field right now. It's just interesting to do a status report today. It's only 645 days till the election, so let's just --

BERMAN: You keep saying -- I -- it's -- but there -- it makes it sound like it's not urgent. I think it really is urgent with these candidates getting in. CAMEROTA: Well, I agree with you. It sure seems to feel like it is

urgent. I mean particularly with, as you point out, that crowd that Kamala Harris got that looked like the Patriots sendoff.

So, at the moment, it's the most diverse field, as we know. There's -- that's her crowd.

AVLON: It's great.

BERMAN: But now I'm completely distracted thinking about Tom Brady.

CAMEROTA: I know. I'm sorry.

BERMAN: So give me a second to get back.

AVLON: Oh, OK.

CAMEROTA: I'm sorry.

But it's just interesting to see how crowded the field is, Michael, already, with Democrats, and whether or not, given the talent that is in there, given the passion for President Trump that so many people still have, if an independent has a lane.

SMERCONISH: Well, I find that fascinating and also Jeff Zeleny's reporting that you've been talking about saying that Hillary hasn't ruled it out. And, Alisyn, when I heard your report today, the first thing that I thought of was a Mark Penn essay that if my memory is accurate it was November of last year that ran in "The Wall Street Journal" where he and a coauthor were encouraging her to run. And, of course, I looked at that like many and I said, is this the trial balloon? Well, that in connection with Jeff's report makes me think, you know, maybe she really is putting out the feelers and trying to tell people to keep their powder dry.

BERMAN: We'll see. I mean, we'll see. It could also be she just doesn't want to say definitively no just yet.

Representative, could I just ask you again, and if we can put the pictures of the people running in the Democratic field back up. One of the things that is striking to so many is the diversity of this field, the racial diversity, the diversity in backgrounds, people -- the mayor of South Bend, you know, who is gay.

You, who have been looking to increase the diversity in the Republican side of the aisle for so long --

LOVE: Yes.

BERMAN: When you see this, what do you think?

LOVE: Well, look, I mean, I'd like to see that same picture. I thought we were moving in that direction to get more diversity in the Republican Party. There's a lot of work do for Republicans in terms of being inclusive. One of the things that I mentioned in my concession speech is that

there's a sense that you never really take us home. And what I meant by that is the legislating in Washington really doesn't transcend into -- onto the ground. The people that are actually -- that are suffering, the people that are trapped in poverty programs, the people that really want to be able to get out and be contributing members of society, they're completely forgotten about that. And we have to let people know that these policies actually work for them.

And I'm telling you right now, that's not the feeling that people get. They're like, you know, we -- we just don't feel like that Republicans like us. And we have to change that because that's not -- that's not, you know, it's certainly not the party I signed up.

AVLON: But I'm sure you'd agree that Donald Trump isn't helping that?

LOVE: Well no. No. And then as -- after -- I mean after this whole shutdown showdown where he got absolutely -- I'm sitting there thinking, what did he get out of that? Eight thousand -- 800,000 people suffering, what did he get out of that? Absolutely nothing. And we're looking, saying, who is this person actually benefiting here with these tactics? And, gosh, I'm just -- I'm triggered about that whole thing. I'm just -- it's been frustrating.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, listen, we've talked to all the people -- not all the people -- we've talked to many of the representatives who did not get their checks for the past two weeks. We'll be talking to two airline officials coming up.

So, Mia, from where you sit, what's going to happen in three weeks? Are we --

LOVE: We could be right back the same place. It's almost like they were playing checkers and then they said, you know what, we don't like this, threw the board off and then decided to just set the pieces together again. And we're going to -- and they're just going to have a do-over.

I don't know what's going to happen in three weeks. I really hope that they get really smart and that we don't get back into the same place. This is not about them. It's not about the state of government. It's supposed to be about the state of the union. It's supposed to be about government not running people but actually allowing government to run.

CAMEROTA: On that note --

BERMAN: Wow. OK.

CAMEROTA: Thank you all very much.

BERMAN: Appreciate it, Michael. Thank you all.

CAMEROTA: A programming note. Be sure to watch Senator Kamala Harris tonight as she joins Jake Tapper for a live CNN town hall from Iowa, 10:00 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN. BERMAN: It took 35 days for lawmakers to reach that deal to end the shutdown for three weeks. So, should Americans really believe that in these three weeks they'll find a way to fix it for good? We're going to ask a key Democratic senator, next.

CAMEROTA: Also coming up, CNN takes you inside the crisis in Venezuela. Nick Paton Walsh takes to everyday people to find out how the battle for food could lied to change.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:18:56] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, President Trump is not confident that a group of bipartisan lawmakers will reach a deal on border security to avoid another government shutdown. The president told "The Wall Street Journal" in this new interview, quote, I personally think it's less than 50-50, but you have a lot of very good people on that board.

Joining me now to discuss, Democratic Senator Chris Coons of Delaware.

Thank you so much for being with us.

You were among the senators asking for some kind of a way out of this shutdown on the Senate floor when things looked at its most bleak. The shutdown is now over. You were also among the Democrats who have said that a border barrier is not immoral. You didn't like that choice of language by Nancy Pelosi.

So my question to you is, in the next 15 days, do you think that there will be any new funding for a new border barrier presented by this group of lawmakers?

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D), DELAWARE: Well, I hope so. I hope we're going to find a path out of this.

Let me be clear, what I said was that a border barrier is infrastructure. It in and of itself isn't immoral, but lots of things about President Trump's immigration policies are immoral. Intentionally separating children from their parents, using cruelty as a tool of immigration policy is immoral.

[07:20:03] But when we're talking about infrastructure on the border, Democrats and Republicans, over the last 20 years have voted to increase border security through a whole series of things, modern technology, more personnel, and more border fencing. There's 700 miles of fencing already. I don't know exactly what combination of money and technology will get the president's support, but he should let the Senate and this new bipartisan committee -- conference committee do its work and not pre-judge the outcome.

BERMAN: Just so we're 100 percent clear here, you said, I hope so, when I asked you if new barrier funding would be part of this deal, and then you also brought up the idea of more fencing. That's the hold up here. The question is, will there be new money for additional fencing? Do you want new money for additional fencing? COONS: I want whatever new money is spent on border security to be

spent as wisely, as smartly, as effectively as possible. I don't think that means another several hundred miles of border fencing. But I want to make sure that what we're spending is actually going to reduce the flow of drugs and criminals into this country, which, if I were in charge, would mean investing in ports of entry. That's where the overwhelming majority of illegal and illicit material and activity coming into our country is coming, not through the remote desert in, you know, rural Texas and Arizona.

BERMAN: Just to be even more clear, and put a point on this, you're not an absolutist. I mean there are some Democrats who have come on this show and say I'm not going to vote for an additional dollar for new fencing. You won't rule out voting for some new fencing as part of a broader deal?

COONS: I think the 35-day long federal shutdown was completely sense. I think for the president to take us back into another shutdown would be senseless. But the point of compromise is to not begin by saying, absolutely no at this end or this end. It was the president who caused this shutdown by demanding $5.7 billion for a wall. I'm not going to sit here and say, I refuse to spend a dollar on border security that includes any fencing, like the 700 miles of fencing we already have.

BERMAN: All right, that's significant, though, and that's different than Nancy Pelosi. You acknowledge that?

COONS: Yes.

BERMAN: OK. Good. Thank you. We appreciate any kind of honesty and we appreciate dialogue to be sure.

COONS: Honesty's a hobby.

BERMAN: You are on the Senate Judiciary Committee.

COONS: Yes.

BERMAN: Obviously you've had oversight over some aspects of the Mueller investigation for a long time. There was a big development on Friday when Roger Stone was indicted on seven counts there. There are defenders of the president who looked at this and said, there was no charge there of any kind of criminal conspiracy or, as the president's allies put it, no charge of collusion.

Is that how you see it and is that significant?

COONS: The way I see it is that Robert Mueller, an incredibly seasoned senior federal law enforcement leader keeps closing in. Someone with his experience doesn't make their most important and most central charge first, they make it last. And that Roger Stone, someone so close to the president and his political activity, over a long period of time, has now been charged with being actively in communication with WikiLeaks about the transfer of information that we separately know was gained through Russian intelligence I think is a significant step forward. It doesn't finally prove the case one way or the other about what the president knew, when he knew it or whether or not he was personally involved in a conspiracy with the Russians, but it moves it a step closer to his inner most circle.

BERMAN: Do you think there still will be charges against someone on the idea of criminal conspiracy to defraud the government or, again, broadly speaking, a collusion charge?

COONS: Well, that's exactly the point of my hard work on a bipartisan basis to defend the Mueller probe. I don't know. None of us knows for sure what Robert Mueller has uncovered and what he's going to be able to prove. But the president shouldn't be allowed to interfere with that investigation or to short change it. That's why I've reintroduced a bipartisan bill with Senators Graham, Tillis and Booker to protect that probe and allow it to finish.

BERMAN: Do you have any theories -- "The Washington Post" had a big article today on how many people tied up in this investigation, include the people who have been charged and convicted, including people inside the White House, how many people have lied about Russia over the last few years?

COONS: Too many (ph).

BERMAN: Do you have any theories about why?

COONS: Because they were concealing inappropriate activity. I think there were -- you mean -- is your question, why were there so many people at the senior levels lying about Russia?

BERMAN: Why were there so many people lying? When you say inappropriate -- you said they're concealing inappropriate activity. Is it illegal activity? Are they concealing illegal activity?

COONS: Well, that's a conclusion to be reached first by the Mueller probe and then by whichever body is responsible for reaching the conclusion about whether it was criminal. Whether that ends up being the Congress in an impeachment proceeding or it ends up being a jury in a court of law.

I have tried to carefully not prejudge this entire investigation. On a few occasions I've gotten ahead of myself. So I'm trying to be careful about that and protect the process and protect the investigation.

BERMAN: Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz --

COONS: Yes.

BERMAN: Went on "60 Minutes" last night and said he is considering getting in the race. He sent out a tweet that said, I love our country and I'm seriously considering running for president as a centrist independent.

You're more of a centrist Democrat, I should note. Do you think that his candidacy jeopardizes the chances for a Democrat to beat Donald Trump in the general election? COONS: Well, we'll have to see. There are several different elections

in our lifetimes where a third party or an independent candidate made up the margin of difference but did not come close to winning. Either winning in the primary field generally obviously or winning in the general election.

[07:25:12] So it's possible that Howard Schultz would be a spoiler. I find it hard to believe that he actually would end up being elected president. But after 2016, I've learned any sort of guess as to what the outcome will be is likely to be wrong on my point.

BERMAN: But spoiler, yes.

COONS: Spoiler, yes. I had a cup of Starbucks coffee first thing this morning. A great cup of coffee. The real question is, is the average American interested in a repeat of Donald Trump, meaning someone with no prior experience in government and public service, but in this case, perhaps, someone who has a stronger record as an ethical business leader.

BERMAN: I want to ask you about Venezuela now. Obviously there are huge goings on down there.

Axios reporting that Senator Lindsey Graham says the president went to him and said, what do you think about using military force in Venezuela? And Graham replied, well, you need to go slow on that. That could be problematic. And then the president joked, well, I'm surprise, you want to invade everybody.

Forget the last part of that for a second, but the idea that the president's asking about military force in Venezuela, where do you see this heading?

COONS: Well, this is a critical moment, both in the history of Venezuela and in our relations in this hemisphere. I do think it's significant that the United States has now stepped out and said we recognize the opposition leader and we are calling for new, free, fair, and open elections.

The Maduro government has been a disaster from a humanitarian perspective, an economic perspective. I am concerned that Russia is being more aggressive in terms of their statement about their interests, their engagement in Venezuela. If we can get through these next few months without military action by either the United States or Russia, that would be a very positive thing.

But the suffering of the Venezuelan people is stunning. The dislocation to the whole region, striking. And ways in which this could reset positively or negatively our relations in this whole -- this whole hemisphere have to be watched closely. So a casual consideration of military action in Venezuela gives me grave concern. But building carefully a multilateral coalition with our European and North American allies and working closely with the Venezuela an opposition and people to prepare the ground for whatever might come next, that's the sort of patient preparation for diplomacy first and action second that we would hope for from a mature and seasoned leader.

BERMAN: Senator Chris Coons from Delaware, thanks so much for being with us.

COONS: Thank you, John.