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As Venezuela Creeps Toward Starvation, Soldiers Lose Patience; Aviation Officials Warn Against Another Government Shutdown; United States Investigating Executive Pay At Nissan; CNN Reality Check: The Bill That Could End Government Shutdowns For Good. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired January 28, 2019 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:31:30] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Now to the crisis in Venezuela. The self-proclaimed interim president, Juan Guaido, tells "The Washington Post" that the opposition is in talks with sympathetic military officials to oust President Nicolas Maduro. Maduro is calling the political upheaval a U.S.-led coup.

CNN'S Nick Paton Walsh went undercover inside Venezuela to capture the desperation that is gripping the nation. It could lead to political change. Nick joins us now with his exclusive report. He's live in neighboring Bogota, Colombia.

Nick, tell us what you learned.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: John, it is startling how we tend to cast the crisis in Venezuela as some big geopolitical new cold war -- battle of wills between Moscow and Washington.

But really, for people inside, it's about food. It's about the startling mismanagement and corruption of the Nicolas Maduro government and how that's left people unable to get the daily things you and I take for granted -- water, dinner, breakfast.

I should point out for your own technical note, many of the people we spoke to requested anonymity out of fear because of how we filmed. Some of the audio isn't the very best so don't adjust your set, but here is what the last week inside Venezuela looked like.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALSH (voice-over): Cross into Venezuela's unending disaster -- the world's worst growing refugee crisis -- and it's like the world, as you know it, is slowly ending.

Oil once made them the richest in South America but this is now the line, for three days and nights, to get a full tank.

In the capital, there's a queue for everything, everywhere. Hunger breeds a special kind of anger.

WALSH (on camera): This is how hyperinflation works. These groceries cost $50 now but because of what's happening with the local currency they'll be worth double, at least, by next month. People paying tomorrow's prices today.

WALSH (voice-over): There's no queuing for the youngest living off what, even here, nobody wants. This isn't play, it's practice for self-defense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My brother got killed in July by another gang, says 14-year-old Uzmaria. They found the body in the river.

We gather stuff, we beg. A piece of chicken skin to take home. And the socialistic utopia that now leaves nearly every stomach empty.

This was the day when change was meant to come. Hundreds of thousands flooding central Caracas, watching opposition leader Juan Guaido swear himself in as interim president. But it fast turned sour.

They've had this standoff outside the military airfield here for months but this is the first time with an opposition leader claiming the presidency. All eyes were on the army and whether it, too, would rise up.

WALSH (on camera): This is the important question, really, in the standoff. It's about the military's vote. They may be throwing stones at them here, but what they really need is the army to switch sides.

WALSH (voice-over): That didn't happen and the police tear gas and motorcycle charges sent us fleeing down side streets. Some, likely, wounded, although dozens reported dead during the day.

It was up here in normally loyal slums where the fight was nastiest. Special Forces entered these streets and they've been coming back to make arrests all during the afternoon when we're invited to meet Carolina's extended family where Maduro's base has long lived.

[07:35:12] State handouts bought their loyalty for years, but now this is all she has to feed four this day. And they say now they, too, want Maduro gone.

"We can't hold it in anymore," one of her cousins says. "We're being crushed with beggars now, always begging. This isn't political, it's survival. People are killing each other for a kilo of rice -- for water."

Army defectors outside Venezuela called on soldiers to rise up, but we hear from one junior officer that even when you can't feed your family, it's more complicated.

"I would say 80 percent of soldiers are against the government -- some even go to demonstrations. But the big fishes -- the senior officers are the ones eating, getting rich -- while on the bottom, we have it hard.

I get a dollar and half every month promptly -- enough for one chicken and a food box from the barracks. And then we have to work magic to make it last, like everyone else."

WALSH (on camera): Would you or the soldiers you know at your level -- would you open fire on resistance people in the streets?

"I'd rather quit. That person could be my brother or my mother. We need a general to flip -- to make a change."

And, as Washington says Maduro isn't president, but Moscow insists he is, everyone else walks zombielike, further and closer towards starvation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALSH: Now, just a reality check here. I mean, a lot of people cast this as a constant unending crisis. People have been dealing with these economic problems for years. I've never seen them quite so ghastly.

But you should bear in mind you don't see daily mass street protests. That large one you saw in that report -- people went home quite fast. And so, that internal momentum for immediate protest-led change isn't quite there at the moment -- John, Alisyn.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Nick, we saw you inside that grocery store there. How are people in Venezuela getting the food they need?

WALSH: This is what is so unbelievably baffling. I mean, the infrastructure of that country still sparkles. It was one of the richest in the region, frankly, just a decade or so ago. And now, it's remarkable.

You know, we bought ourselves, as we arrived, $200 worth of groceries and that was a ridiculous amount. It was like eight bottles of water, some ham, some cheese, some nuts, some fruit. And that in itself, next month in the local currency, will be worth twice as much.

As we said there, things have a self-fulfilling way of becoming more expensive because everyone thinks that tomorrow everything is going to be worth less.

Now, just imagine that -- $200 for massively overpriced food -- so much more than it was when I was there 18 months ago. It really is a daily crisis for people.

And one of the ways the Maduro government seems to keep itself in power is the handouts of food boxes every month. You heard that soldier in the barracks. That's how people seem to make ends meet.

And then you, really, so many others rummaging through trash -- something that you and I would consider unconceivable. So common wherever we saw there. I mean, even ourselves, on a limited budget -- we found it often quite hard to get food. And that is so staggeringly the reason why people are so furious right now -- John.

CAMEROTA: And, Nick, we heard one of the people that you interviewed say we need a general to flip. And so, what are the chances that the military would turn against Maduro?

WALSH: This is the big question. As it currently stands -- and we saw a lot of this in -- you hear lots from the rank and file that they're angry and they go through the same problems all Venezuelans go through.

But there's the richest that seem to keep the generals and the higher ranks in power there. And so long as that is all secure and as long as those generals manage to keep their subordinates on the leash so to speak, it's very hard to imagine how we'll suddenly see the military defect. And without that, it's also hard to see how Maduro gets kicked out.

And we see Juan Guaido there -- a charismatic figure -- selling a message of hope to the people, many of them middle-class as well. But he doesn't, it seems, represent those in the slums you saw there, too. They have their own set poverty base to fight.

And so, we're in for months of problems here, potentially, rather than some sudden swift change in power. Back to you.

CAMEROTA: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much for the reporting. I mean, John and I report on this every day but until we saw your pictures and what the kids there and the parents are resorting to, I think that I wasn't able to get my head fully around what's going on in Venezuela.

Thank you very much, Nick.

Well, the government shutdown here ended only after planes at a New York -- at New York's LaGuardia Airport were grounded. So up next, flight attendants and air traffic controllers tell us how the shutdown is still jeopardizing safety.

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[07:43:25] CAMEROTA: The impasse over the shutdown was broken only after planes at New York City's LaGuardia Airport were grounded because of safety concerns. That got the president's attention. But the shutdown's effect on safety lingers today.

So, joining us now are Sara Nelson. She's the international president of the Association of Flight Attendants. And, Dan McCabe. He's a representative for the National Air Traffic Controllers Association. Great to have both you here to give us a status report.

Sara, you said the shutdown -- ending the shutdown was a matter of life and death. What did you mean?

SARA NELSON, INTERNATIONAL PRESIDENT, ASSOCIATION OF FLIGHT ATTENDANTS-CWA, AFL-CIO: Hello -- absolutely. There are critical functions that happen behind the people who are determined to be essential people, like Dan. And all of the work that happens behind those people preps them to be able to have the intelligence that they need to make good decisions about how to carry out their job. So, safety inspectors, for example, were on furlough, and other civil service people that we count on for the layers of security that matter.

The other thing that was a problem was that the training facilities were down. The planning programs were down.

New initiatives -- new technology that was being put in place to assist the air traffic controllers as they're making their decisions about where to tell planes to land and how not to interrupt travel with those planes trying to take off as they're coming in. Dan can talk about that much more eloquently.

But when you have a government shutdown, it's really concerning that you don't have all the programs in place --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

NELSON: -- that support the safety professionals who are on the front lines.

[07:45:00] CAMEROTA: And, Sara, just before we get to Dan, were you hearing from your flight attendants that they were seeing actual specific things -- problems that were causing them safety concerns?

NELSON: Flight attendants were very concerned because we know it takes layers of security.

And the biggest thing that they were concerned about is our air traffic controllers who were going to work every single day making sure that we were safe but not having a paycheck in a high-stress job. Anyone can understand that that is a threat to safety in and of itself for a highly-trained, highly-certified, high-medically-required job where people have to retire at age 56.

And so, flight attendants know very well it's not a good idea to stress those people out further, and that's exactly what the shutdown did.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

So, Dan, listen, it sends a shiver down my spine, as someone who flies, to think that air traffic controllers during those 35 days were not well-rested, were concerned about paying bills, were stressed.

But were, from where you sit, passengers' safety in danger during that time?

DAN MCCABE, REPRESENTATIVE, NATIONAL AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS ASSOCIATION: Well, it was getting worse as we moved forward and just based upon the things you brought up, the emotional state of the controllers. Thursday and Friday was among the worst I'd ever seen.

And as we spoke last week, everyone has their breaking point and I was concerned that breaking points of larger amounts of people were getting closer and closer. Since the announcement on Friday afternoon, the mood has improved immensely. People were able to go home, spend time with the families, get a couple of good night's rest, and were ready to get back to work as normal.

CAMEROTA: Yes. I never want to hear the words air traffic controllers and breaking point in the same sentence.

But, you know, Dan, you pointed out that it's just -- you can't just like flip a switch and everything goes back to normal. So after these 35 days, how do you get it back to a well-oiled machine? What's gone wrong? What has to happen today?

MCCABE: Well, that's something we've still got to figure out. So we'll work collaboratively with the FAA and other entities to find out what negative impacts may we have seen over 35 days of having the government shut down. We'll work to mitigate those quickly.

Look, we've got to get the FAA Academy open, we've got to get to hiring people. Here in Atlanta, we've got to come up with a plan to make sure the Super Bowl goes off without a hitch. So we've got a lot of work to do.

But, you know, air traffic controllers make the impossible look mundane, so it's just another day at the office for us.

CAMEROTA: But do you have to retrain people? Have skills gotten rusty over 35 days?

MCCABE: No. As far as the controllers that are working the scopes right now, we won't -- we won't need to train those.

Now, as far as some modernization programs that we've been working on within the building, we'll have to -- we'll have to retrain the entire workforce on some of those just simply because they haven't touched it in so long.

CAMEROTA: Sara, I know that you and your association are trying to make sure this never happens again, but what can you do?

NELSON: Well, we are going to work every single day to help people understand the really severe nature of this. I think this shutdown was the longest in U.S. history, more than twice as long, so we did get to that breaking point and people got to see how dangerous it is when you shut down the federal government who do incredible work that we don't see every single day.

We have these amazing federal sector of civil servants who make our government run, and when you shut that down it interfaces with private business and the whole thing starts to unravel.

So in this case with the airline industry, it was very obvious that if planes don't take off my members don't have jobs, people don't get services to their communities, they're stranded in their communities, and our interstate commerce that we're so dependent upon doesn't flow. So this is very concerning and we all know how impactful this was -- how important it is that we keep the system going. That we help people understand that if you come to work for the federal government and do these key jobs, we're going to have your back. We're not going to put you in a situation where you have to worry that this is going to happen to you.

We should never do this in this country. No other country would put up with it. And so, we're going to work every single day to make it very clear that we won't put it up -- put up with it for one more day.

CAMEROTA: Sara Nelson, Dan McCabe, thank you for what you do on any given day, and we'll be watching what happens over the next three weeks. Thank you, both.

MCCABE: Thank you.

NELSON: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: John --

BERMAN: A bipartisan bill could put an end to shutdowns forever. So, how would it work? Can it pass? A CNN reality check is next.

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[07:53:46] CAMEROTA: OK, time for "CNN Business Now." More trouble for Nissan as the U.S. opens an investigation into the Japanese automaker following a scandal.

Chief business correspondent Christine Romans joins us with more. What's this about, Christine?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT, ANCHOR, "EARLY START": Good morning, Alisyn.

Well, U.S. regulators now asking questions about how Nissan reported executive pay. Nissan said it has received an inquiry from the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission and is cooperating fully. The Japanese automaker made that comment after "Bloomberg" reported the SEC is investigating whether it accurately disclosed its executive pay in the United States.

Now, Nissan's chairman, Carlos Ghosn, was arrested in Japan in November. He spent two months in custody. He's a legend in the auto world. Ghosn is suspected, though, of underreporting his income by tens of millions of dollars and transferring personal investment losses onto Nissan.

Nissan and Mitsubishi both fired Ghosn as chairman soon after that arrest. He resigned as chairman and CEO of France's Renault last week after the French government withdrew its support for him.

Greg Kelly, a former top exec at Nissan, has also been indicted in that case. Ghosn and Kelly have both denied any wrongdoing, John.

BERMAN: All right, Christine Romans. Thank you very much.

Longtime NBC News anchor Tom Brokaw under fire for comments he made about Hispanics on "MEET THE PRESS." Listen to this.

[07:55:03] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM BROKAW, FORMER ANCHOR, "NBC NIGHTLY NEWS": I also happen to believe that the Hispanics should work harder at assimilation. That's one of the things I've been saying for a long time.

You know, that they ought not to be just codified in their communities but make sure that all their kids are learning to speak English and that they feel comfortable in the communities. And that's going to take outreach on both sides, frankly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Brokaw is now apologizing for those remarks in a series of tweets. He says he feels terrible his comments on Hispanics offended some members of that proud culture. Again, this is what he says, adding he's worked hard to knock down those false stereotypes.

CAMEROTA: OK. The government shutdown is over but could come roaring back three weeks from now -- or maybe this was the shutdown to end all shutdowns.

Senior political analyst John Avlon joins us with a reality check -- John.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Ali --

So, hyperpartisanship is a hell of a drug. It fueled the longest shutdown in American history.

And get this -- less than 24 hours after Donald Trump waved the white flag, the official GOP Twitter account said this. Quote, "Democrats have held our government hostage for weeks, but thanks to President @realDonaldTrump's leadership, the government will reopen."

Look, I get that their job is partisan spin but that's a total rewriting of recent history. We all heard President Trump say he'd own the shutdown and presumably, that's why polls showed a majority of Americans blaming him for it.

But what we've got here isn't an end to the shutdown as much as a 3- week ceasefire. The good news is that there isn't much of an appetite on either side to shut down the government again. The bad news is that this new Congress combines a more conservative Senate with a much more liberal house.

There is some common ground, though. Both sides have signaled support for things like more money for technology that can detect weapons and drugs at the border, more immigration judges, border patrol agents, and humanitarian aid for migrants. There may even be a shot at giving Dreamers a path to citizenship that could sweeten the deal significantly for Democrats. The wall, of course -- that's the biggest sticking point. But even the president walked that one back a little bit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We do not need 2,000 miles of concrete wall from sea to shiny sea. We never did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: And while some Democrats call the wall immoral, their party has voted for hundreds of miles of border walls and fences in the past. And some are now signaling they could support a technological smart wall, which means we're in for a high-stakes game of semantics, folks.

And here's an irony alert. After the federal face-plant of the last five weeks, there is now bipartisan support in the Senate for a bill that would outlaw government shutdowns.

Listen to Republican Sen. Lamar Alexander. Quote, "Shutting down the government should be as off-limits in budget negotiations as chemical warfare is in real warfare."

His GOP colleague, Sen. Rob Portman, has more than a dozen cosponsors for his bill to prevent shutdowns going forward.

And, Democratic Sen. Mark Warner has a similar bill with a catchier name -- the "Stop STUPIDITY Act."

And something tells me that if lawmakers were the ones not getting paid in the shutdown instead of federal workers, it would happen a lot less often, which is the idea behind a proposal commonsensically called "No Budget, No Pay."

But let's not pretend that this shutdown suddenly created a flowering of reason up on Capitol Hill. Even President Trump thinks chances are less than 50-50 that they'll get a deal done.

Here's what's clear. As long as hyperpartisan media is fanning the flames on border immigration debates, it's going to be an uphill climb, especially with Trump in office.

Case in point, the president claimed 10 times over 22 days of the shutdown that women have been found bound and gagged by smugglers at the border. But "Vox" published an e-mail they said was from a border patrol source that shows the agency scrambling for information to back up the president's claims. And we haven't been able to review that e- mail.

But here's the biggest takeaway. We need to have a fact-based, not fear-filled debate on these issues if we're going to make any kind of bipartisan progress. And, President Trump isn't helping.

And that's your reality check.

CAMEROTA: We cannot argue with a fact-based argument. That is --

AVLON: I like that.

CAMEROTA: Yes, that's great. And also, I mean, I just think it's so great that you pointed out that sometimes the president starts with a claim and then the people around him have to scurry to find evidence to back that claim up.

BERMAN: Yes, it's the backfilling department.

AVLON: Not normal.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BERMAN: Several cabinet agencies -- their job is to backfill comments the president initially makes.

All right, John. Thank you very much.

AVLON: Thanks.

BERMAN: A big campaign launch for 2020. NEW DAY continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I stand before you to announce my candidacy for President of the United States.

HOWARD SCHULTZ, FORMER CEO, STARBUCKS: I am seriously thinking of running for president as a centrist Independent.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hillary Clinton is not closing the doors to the idea of running in 2020.

JULIAN CASTRO, FORMER SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need new leadership. There's a real difference between the Democratic side and Donald Trump.

ROGER STONE, LONGTIME TRUMP ASSOCIATE: I expect to be acquitted and vindicated. This indictment is thin as piss on a rock.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: He's presumed innocent, but these are very specific allegations of lies and witness intimidation.

JEROME CORSI, CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I can't really answer what Roger's motivation is.

MICK MULVANEY, ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: All this stuff you see happening with Roger Stone doesn't have anything to do with the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman. CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Monday, January 28th, 8:00 in the east.

The 2020 race is heating up. Election Day is only 645 days away.

Senator Kamala Harris officially --