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Interview with Democratic Senator Maize Hirono of Hawaii. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired February 01, 2019 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:00] SEN. CORY BOOKER, (D) NEW JERSEY: It is not a matter of can we. It's a matter of do we have the collective will, the American will? I believe we do. Together, we will channel our common pain back into our common purpose. Together, America, we will rise.

I'm Cory Booker, and I'm running for president of the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REBECCA BUCK, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: As you mentioned, this is an incredibly crowded, competitive Democratic field that Cory Booker is entering into today. And so the question is how will he compete, how will differentiate himself from the rest of these candidates.

One thing he mentioned in this announcement video that gave us a look at that, is that he is the only senator who lives in an inner city, in the inner city of Newark, just down the street from us here. This is the city also where he cut his teeth politically as mayor. That's executive experience no other senator running has. So these are some of themes that he's going to hitting over the next few months ahead of the primaries.

In terms of his rollout, he is going to Iowa and South Carolina next week. These are two of the states that are going to be key for him. And South Carolina, of course, with a majority of African-Americans comprising the Democratic electorate in their primary process. He will also do an interview later today on "The View" showing how important women voters will be for Cory Booker, especially when you have so many women candidates running in this field. So his work cut out for him, but on day one, Cory Booker starting with a strong message.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Rebecca Buck, stay with us. We're going to make you stand outside in the cold and be part of this conversation as we bring in Nia-Malika Henderson, a CNN senior political reporter, Van Jones, former special adviser to President Obama and host of "The Van Jones Show," and David Axelrod, CNN senior political commentator and host of "The Ax Files." Among all of us, Ax, you're the one who has kind of elected a president already. So I want to ask you, Cory Booker's entrance into the race official now, what does it do to the field?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: First of all, thanks for giving me the entire credit for electing the president.

(LAUGHTER)

AXELROD: I appreciate that.

Listen, Cory Booker is a dynamic guy. He has a really interesting story. The Newark story is very compelling. You know, one of his problems is that we saw earlier in the week Kamala Harris enter the race with a message that was not dissimilar. They are in kind of the same lane with the same theory of the case that if you do well in these early primaries you turn the corner into more diverse states where the African-American vote is very meaningful. But it's unlikely that both of them can execute on that strategy. So that's one of his issues.

The other is that Booker is a very inspirational guy, but sometimes he can get carried away. We saw that with his Spartacus moment on the Judiciary Committee during the Kavanaugh hearings. He can move from being an inspirational figure to kind of a motivational speaker, and sometimes it comes off a little tinny. So that's a discipline that he's going to have to deal with. But clearly a formidable guy, and not to be dismissed in this race.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And that's an important point about what we saw in those hearings. Nia-Malika, just expand on that for us for a minute, if you will, because Cory Booker getting a lot of attention which he wanted in that moment. Not all of it, though, was the positive attention that he was going for.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: I think that's right. And I think part of the issue was there are so many people running. A lot of folks all looking for a viral moment. We had seen Kamala Harris, for instance, having viral moments, doing those questioning. So he couldn't in some ways figure out how to break through, right. So I think that's been a problem with him.

And who he is, and Axelrod brings this point, who he is vis-a-vis somebody like Kamala Harris. Kamala, for instance, I think walked out in one of the hearings. He couldn't decide if he wanted to stay or go. So I think that is an issue, because in some ways he had this area to himself, being viral on social media, attracting the attention of young folks, attracting the attention of African-Americans, too. And now it's a more crowded field, so we're going to see what the difference is.

I do think a gift he has that Kamala Harris doesn't have is he connects with people on the stump in a one on one way that I think we haven't yet seen from Kamala Harris. People want to be around him and he wants to be around people, and that is so clear. A lot of folks who decide who to vote for are going to see these folks not necessarily in their living rooms but on television. And he has a kind of I think magnetism and energy that really cuts through the screen in a way a lot of the candidates so far can't quite do.

BERMAN: Van, you told us you have been aware of Cory Booker since you were both at law school at Yale in the early '90s. We talked about his personal qualities there, but there are issues with which he has been closely identified for decades, and criminal justice reform is one of them. How will that in his role there impact the race?

[08:05:15] VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. First, as I said, I have known this guy for 25 years. I'm so glad I graduated from Yale law schools three months before he got there, because in the history of the Yale Law School, Bill Clinton and Cory Booker were the two students to have the biggest impact on the school. It's still Cory Booker's law school in a lot of people's eyes.

What I want to say is that criminal justice reform is something that I think all African-Americans, especially African-American folks from our age group -- in the 1990s you had three strikes and you're out. You had this huge expansion of the prison population, mostly with our peers. And that left a big, big mark on all of us. And I think for Cory Booker that's going to be a big part of the reason he's running. When he says nobody should be left behind, nobody should be thrown away, he's talking about that experience of the 90s and early 2000s where we saw a whole generation being transferred over into prison. That's going to be a big deal.

There's also going to be a big battle royal, a heavyweight battle for the black vote between Kamala Harris and Cory Booker. They both have their strengths. Kamala Harris being a woman, being a strong woman, I think that's going to have a big appeal. Cory Booker being better on the issue of criminal justice reform than Kamala, who is a progressive prosecutor, but she's got some criticism for her role in that. So you're going to see a big fight.

The last time you saw anything like this I believe with Carol Moseley Braun and Al Sharpton I think were in the same primary one time. But neither of those figures have the heavyweight star power that you have with a Kamala and a Cory.

HILL: And what you just set up there, Van, Rebecca, it's interesting as we look at Cory Booker's rollout this morning. These are always, of course, very well calculated. But he's starting off with Tom Joyner. Also speaking to his Latin American audience today. He's going to meet with the ladies on "The View," which touches a number of these boxes that Democrats, Republicans as well, have been consistently accused of forgetting sometimes and taking for granted.

BUCK: That's right. So he's trying to reach all corners of the party. And when you have such a huge competitive field, you really do have to cobble together a coalition from wherever you can get these votes. And so one other thing I noticed about his announcement video today is it seemed very young, very hip, very vibrant in a way that might also appeal to millennials. The African-American imagery was quite obvious. But this is something that shows me that he's also looking at millennial voters, young voters, as part of that coalition that he wants to bring together.

But Latino voters, you mentioned he's going on Univision radio for one of his interviews this morning. This is one area where he will have some very stiff competition from Kamala Harris, who of course is from California and has worked on immigration issues, potentially Beto O'Rourke, if he decides to run. And so he's trying to show that he can compete with these other candidates for these voters. Certainly his campaign is laser focused on these groups this morning.

BERMAN: I'm going to steal an idea that Erica mentioned to me as we were coming into this segment.

HILL: We're a team, John Berman.

BERMAN: I'm stealing an idea. This is outright theft. David Axelrod, Cory Booker, in the announcement video and as far as I could tell as part of his planned rollout, I didn't hear him mention President Trump. Kamala Harris in her big announcement speech did not directly mention President Trump once. How intentional is this do you think for the Democratic candidates, and how important is it do you think for the Democratic candidates to try to run independent of the specter of the Trump presidency?

AXELROD: I think that the aura of Trump can be assumed. That is obvious that that is a big overhang on this election. And the challenge for these candidates is to explain how they would lead beyond Trump, what they represent beyond Trump. They all are implicitly criticizing Trump. In that video he talks about leaders who we can look at with pride and not shame. I think that's the phrase he used. And that was an unmistakable inference. But I think people can very be careful not to suggest that their only virtue is they are not Donald Trump.

HILL: And another thing, I'm just going to to listen to a little bit --

JONES: One thing --

HILL: Go ahead, van.

JONES: I just wanted to add, though, of all the people who are running, I think we have 947 people running.

(LAUGHTER)

JONES: Of all the people who are running, Cory Booker is a walking repudiation of Donald Trump. He is literally the antidote or the opposite in that he is almost relentlessly optimistic, upbeat, and embracing of everybody. He doesn't have to come out and saying anything about Donald Trump. He is the anti-Trump just by nature.

HILL: So that actually leads us perfectly I think where you and I were both looking to go which is this bit of this interview that we have with Tom Joyner.

BERMAN: OK.

HILL: Or maybe not.

BERMAN: I've got a different point, but go for that.

[08:10:01] HILL: OK, so we're going to tag team it. Let's listen first to what he told Tom Joyner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CORY BOOKER, (D) NEW JERSEY: I'm running really not to beat anybody. I'm running to unite people, because I know that when we stand together, when we work together, we can rise together. And let me tell you this, we are not going to win the race by showing the worst of who we are, but by the best. And I only know one way. As we were all taught by some of our best ancestors that you can't drive out darkness with darkness. You have got to bring the light. You can't drive out hate with hate. You've got to bring the love. I just think it's time for a more radical empathy for each other in this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So I will say what stood out there, Van, to your point about optimism but also talking about, I'm not running to beat anybody. Also the not mentioning President Trump's name, which Kamala Harris didn't do either. It's setting up a very different tone. Nia, I'll throw that to you.

HENDERSON: I think that's right. It is setting up a very different tone. I think one of the issues Cory Booker is going to have is do people find this tone and this talking about love, which is great, do they find it sort of corny and cloying? And also do they find it also an echo and too much of an echo President Obama? The idea that we have to appeal to your better angels. There is no red America or blue America, there is the United States of America. So I think that is the problem.

To the extent that he is walking in the shadow of Obama, he's got to figure out a way to differentiate himself from Obama, because in truth, a lot of, particularly African-Americans, they feel like Obama didn't go far enough in many ways, wasn't tough enough on some of these issues. So I think has got to figure that out. It sounds great. It's optimistic. But in some ways it's what folks heard in 2008 and 2012 and bought it from Obama and certainly have a lot of love and respect still for Obama, but might be looking for something a little different now, a little tougher. And in that way, maybe somebody like Kamala Harris who talks about fighting, maybe that is something that they might want to hear that they haven't necessarily heard from the candidates.

AXELROD: That may absolutely be true. But I do think people are going to be looking for a counterpoint to Trump, someone who can heal the country. There is a lot of weariness in this country over the kind of continuous discord and acrimony and nastiness. And so -- it may be absolutely true, but I do think people are going to be looking for a counterpoint to Trump, someone who can heal the country. There is a lot of weariness in this country over the kind of continuous discord and acrimony and nastiness. And so -- it may absolutely be true. But I do think people are going to be looking for a counterpoint to Trump, someone who can heal the country. There is a lot of weariness in this country over the kind of continuous discord and acrimony and nastiness. And so -- it may absolutely be true. But I do think people are going to be looking for a counterpoint to Trump, someone --

JONES: There's something's wrong.

BERMAN: David Axelrod, we heard most of what he said. I think we lost his shot. Do we have everyone else still up right here? One of the points I wanted to make there is that Van brought up the fact that Cory Booker is the walking antithesis of the president, Donald Trump. They have one thing in common, which is that two people who worked very hard to get both of them elected, Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump. Rebecca Buck, they were big backers. Weren't they bundlers basically for Cory Booker?

BUCK: They were.

BERMAN: It is interesting.

BUCK: They were. They hosted a fundraiser for him at their home in fact in New York. They were very close to him as far as donors go. But as Cory Booker has pointed out, he's been asked about this in the past few months. And as he pointed out, they were Democrats at that time. And so that's how he explains this relationship. Charles Kushner, Jared Kushner's father, is a huge Democratic donor here in New Jersey. Of course, the Kushners are from the state of New Jersey. And so it's not unusual or out of the ordinary that they would have supported Booker being Democrats. But of course, Booker says now that Jared and Ivanka are working with President Trump, he would not accept any money from them today, and in fact they haven't talked since they have taken on this new role. So it is a very interesting relationship indeed.

BERMAN: What a soap opera. Rebecca Buck, thank you for standing in the cold. David Axelrod, Van Jones, Nia-Malika Henderson, a great discussion, fascinating analysis, in some ways tough analysis of the path that Cory Booker has and some of the challenges that he faces.

President Trump claims his intelligence chiefs, they were misquoted when they contradicted him in testimony before Congress. We'll get key reaction from a Senate Democrat next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We'll get key reaction from a Senate Democrat, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:18:41] BERMAN: Sources tell CNN that Senate investigators have information that the phone calls Donald Trump, Jr., made to a blocked number ahead of the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting with Russians were not to his father. Democrats have long questioned whether Donald Trump, Jr., informed his father of the meeting in a phone call, giving him advanced notice and knowledge that the Russians were offering dirt on Hillary Clinton.

Joining us now is Democratic Senator Maize Hirono, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Aloha, Senator. Great to have you here with us this morning.

SEN. MAIZE HIRONO (D), HAWAII: Good morning, John.

BERMAN: This was a CNN exclusive yesterday. Those phone calls that Donald Trump Jr. made to a blocked number just before the Trump Tower meeting with the Russians promised dirt on Hillary Clinton were not to his father. Does that answer questions to you about whether --

HIRONO: No.

BERMAN: Why not?

HIRONO: Because there is a lot that needs to continue to be investigated. And this is why the Democrats focus so much on the need to make sure the Mueller investigation goes forward unfettered and unrestrained, because there is a lot going on that we probably still don't know. We need to have the dots connected.

BERMAN: Yes, but it is one of the questions specifically that House Democrats were asking, which is did Donald Trump, Jr., call his father and tell him not then, not those phone calls, that is new information, correct?

[08:20:00] HIRONO: That may be new information. I don't know about it. But surrounding all of this is all the other actions taken by Trump and his people with regard to their relationship and the discussions, whatever, what-have-you, with the Russians.

And so, that can be one instance. But there is probably a lot more we need to disclose.

BERMAN: President Trump did an interview with Maggie Haberman and Peter Baker of the "New York Times" yesterday. I think we actually have a little bit of sound from this. Where he tells them that he's been informed by the deputy attorney general he's not a target or a subject of the investigation. If we have that sound, can we play it?

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, he told -- he told the attorneys that I'm not a subject -- I'm not a target.

REPORTER: He told your attorneys?

TRUMP: Yes. Oh, yes.

REPORTER: Did he say that in the SDNY investigation, too?

TRUMP: About which?

REPORTER: The SDNY investigation. Because there's two. There's Mueller, and there's the Cohen investigation.

TRUMP: I don't know. I don't know about that. That I don't know about. (END AUDIO CLIP)

BERMAN: Is this surprising to you that the president's legal team was informed he's not a target and the president claims the subject of this investigation?

HIRONO: Well, first of all, I don't even know if it's a fact that his legal team was informed that the president is not a target. I don't think the FBI or the Justice Department goes around telling people whether or not they are or are not targets. Even if one is not a target or one could still be a subject of interest.

So, you know, everything that comes out of the president's mouth is, in my view, subject to question.

BERMAN: Again, if he's not under oath when he's talking to Maggie Haberman and Peter Baker --

(CROSSTALK)

HIRONO: Exactly.

By the way, John, he still calls the investigation a witch hunt even as so many of his own people have been indicted, pled guilty, et cetera.

BERMAN: It's important to note, he actually did call the investigation a witch hunt last night even as he was --

HIRONO: Yes.

BERMAN: -- releasing and praising this revelation, this new information that Donald Trump, Jr., didn't call in prior to the meeting.

The chairman of your committee, Senator Lindsey Graham from South Carolina says he wants more information about how the FBI conducted the arrest of Roger Stone last week in Florida. Let me read the statement from Senator Graham.

The American public has had enough of the media circus that surrounds the special counsel's investigation. Yet the manner of this arrest appears to have only added to the spectacle. Accordingly, I write to seek justification for the tactics used and the timing of the arrest of Mr. Stone.

Do you have questions about the manner in which Roger Stone was arrested?

HIRONO: My understanding is that there are major concerns about destruction of evidence, et cetera. And that my understanding is that this is the way the FBI conducts itself. Certainly, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee has its prerogative. Perhaps he should call Christopher Wray, the FBI director, and have a chat with him, because I think we all care about the destruction of evidence. At the same time, I know that the president was concerned about what

happened to his pal. I wish he would express the same kind of concerns with regard to other kinds of law enforcement activities, including police departments that had consent decrees at the Justice Department which, under the previous -- not the current acting attorney general -- were brought into question.

So, police misconduct. I wish that the president and everybody else cared more about the systemic police misconduct, especially as it targets African-Americans and other minorities.

BERMAN: Senator, about an hour ago your Senate colleague Cory Booker announced he's running for president. I think he's either the fourth or fifth one of your colleagues who's announced officially they are running, or they're exploring or they're doing something to indicate they might get into the race.

Have you decided if you will support one of your colleagues in that pursuit for president?

HIRONO: I, frankly, like them all. I respect them all. And let's face it, the Democrats have a big tent. We can have a variety, a number of people that represents the diversity of our country and I think it's terrific.

But there are certain things that unite us such as health care is a right, not a privilege even as every single day, this administration sabotages the Affordable Care Act and tries to cut back on the coverage for people with pre-existing conditions.

So, while the Democrats have a large tent, and I welcome everybody. In fact, I think Schultz should run as a Democrat. If his ideas are all that great, he should articulate them as a Democrat.

But it's great that we have this diverse group of people running. But as I say, there are certain things that unite us.

BERMAN: It sounds like you are giving me, I love my children equally answer there when I know for a fact we love all of our children differently. We love all of our children differently.

So, what I want to know from you is, is there somewhere you are leaning? Do you think it is an important year for Democrats to nominate a woman to be president?

HIRONO: I would be delighted if we nominated a woman. I would be very delighted if that person can win. And that's what we are focused on. But, of course, I would be delighted. I would be very happy, because I think it is time for our country to have a woman at the helm.

And the Senate Democrats who are running, the women, I have worked with all of them on so many important issues. I think they're all terrific. They all have different ideas to bring forth.

But it's all about acknowledging that we have income disparity in our country. We don't have equal rights, truly. There are so many ways we can bring forth the kinds of programs that we support that distinguishes us from Donald Trump who, by the way, continuing to focus on having a wall. I mean, really, we are at the point of ridiculousness.

BERMAN: What about that? What about that? Because he told Maggie and Peter Baker last night that he doesn't expect that these conferees, the congressional conferees will come up with a plan that he'll support, and he says he has set the table for the action he will take next, hinting that it is some kind of emergency declaration.

HIRONO: Yes, an emergency of his own creation. And when he says things so cavalierly, oh, I set the table, 35 days of harm not just to 800,000 federal employees but the contractors and the whole country. What is this? A game to him?

Thirty-five days of a government shutdown and he's saying, oh, I just set the stage for an emergency declaration which he created himself. There's going to be a lawsuit if he does that. And I would hope that the judiciary which is supposed to be an independent branch of government will not allow him to have this kind of unfettered power to not only create the emergency, declare an emergency, then divert funds that are supposed to go for other purposes so that his wall can be built.

We are way past a president who is talking no sense. This is why I say with this president, how can you talk sense to somebody who makes no sense? What my expectation is that by February 15, we better have a bill we'll pass in both the House and the Senate that will keep government running until the end of the fiscal year and send it to the president. He can either sign it or not.

BERMAN: Senator Mazie Hirono from Hawaii -- thanks so much for being with us.

HIRONO: Sure, thank you.

BERMAN: Erica?

HIRONO: We are moments away now from Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announcing the U.S. will pull out of a nuclear arms treaty with Russia. Could that lead to a new arms race? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)