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New Day

Interview with Ian Bremmer; Jury Deliberates in El Chapo Trial; Zuckerberg's Sister on Success; U.S. Pulling Out of Arms Treaty. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired February 04, 2019 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:33] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump now acknowledging that ISIS could regain strength in Syria if U.S. troops leave the country. His solution if that happens, well, listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We'll come back if we have to. We have very fast airplanes. We have very good cargo planes. We can come back very quickly. And I'm not leaving.

And, frankly, we're hitting the caliphate from Iraq and as we slowly withdraw from Syria.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: You may also recall in December the president said without proof that ISIS was defeated in Syria.

Want to bring in Ian Bremmer, the president and founder of the Eurasia Group and author of "Us Versus Them: The failure of Globalism."

The president speaking there about U.S. troop presence in Syria. He also said loosely in that same part of the discussion that he wants to put troops -- that he might put more U.S. troops in Iraq to counter Iran. You think he's just speaking loosely.

IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT, EURASIA GROUP: Yes. I mean he's not talking about anything that would be a military strike against Iran. He's not happy with the fact that the Iranians continue to engage in ballistic missile development, support for Hezbollah and other organizations we consider to be terrorists in the region.

But, you know, the fact is, the U.S. military has done about as much as the U.S. military can do against ISIS on the ground in Syria and Iraq. That does not mean that we have destroyed and defeated ISIS or terrorism in these countries. But as you see, you know, the American presumption, whether or not it's Trump or previous presidents, is that the way you fight terrorism is almost exclusively militarily. And -- in terms of real policy. And you look at Iraq right now, Mosul, where everyone that is thought to be not only former ISIS but a first cousin, a lawyer supporting them, getting rounded up, thrown in camps, and the death sentence. A lot of people living in Mosul today think life for them is worse than it was under the caliphate.

Now, we're not actively fighting right now, but I tell you, conditions for terrorism in that part of the world are going to create more people that are going to want to blow stuff up.

HARLOW: Interestingly, that wasn't the note or the reasoning that the president put behind his statement in the CBS interview yesterday as to why he would leave U.S. troops in Iraq.

BREMMER: Right.

HARLOW: His point was to watch Iran.

BREMMER: Iran.

HARLOW: And then Margaret Brennan jumped in and said, are mean, you know, are you considering a strike on Iran then? And he said, no, no, we're watching for the intelligence.

You don't make much of that.

BREMMER: He likes to say, like with Venezuela, he likes to talk loosely about having military options, right? Remember when he decided to hit Syria and Assad for chemical weapons use, which he talked about in that interview as well, I mean that was one of his most significant policy successes in his first year. Everyone, Dems, Republicans, said, yes, they were glad they did that. Obama did not. He likes to bluster on the military.

But with Iran, I mean it's not as if the U.S. could do anything that wouldn't lead to massive escalation in the region. And -- and so, as a consequence, he did pull out of the deal, but everyone else is still in the deal. The Europeans last week actually finding new ways to get humanitarian support to the Iranians.

What the Iranians are doing, they're trying to run out the clock on what they hope would be only a one-term Trump presidency so the next president would go back and rejoin the deal.

HARLOW: Right.

BERMAN: Just one more beat on the president's choice of language in talking about U.S. troop presence in Syria and Iraq vis-a-vis Iran. And his own revisionist history about the political steps that were taken here. Remember, the secretary of defense, James Mattis, quit over this.

BREMMER: Yes.

BERMAN: The president doesn't see it that way. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He resigned because I asked him to resign. He resigned because I was very nice to him. But I gave him big budgets, and he didn't do well in Afghanistan. I was not happy with the job he was doing in Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BREMMER: You asking me? I mean, look, we know that Mattis resigned on his own terms. We saw the letter that was sent. Clearly the White House was surprised by that.

But also, Trump was increasingly unhappy with Mattis. That fight was growing. I think everyone knew that Mattis was not long for the job at that point. So, I mean, I absolutely agree with the fact that Trump was unhappy with Mattis on Syria, on Afghanistan, on sending troops down to the southern border. There were a bunch of issues where these guys were directly at loggerheads.

BERMAN: But the notion that he asked Trump -- he asked Mattis to resign and Mattis didn't quit is just not true.

BREMMER: That -- from all accounts, both internal and external, that is not true. But, again, Trump, a lot of revisionist history on things that would make him look better. We saw that with the size of his win, the size of the crowds during the inauguration, same thing here. And I -- again, I think that everyone that watches him after two and a half years now kind of gets that about him.

[08:35:11] HARLOW: Let's listen to the president in this important exchange on any military option for Venezuela.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARGARET BRENNAN, CBS ANCHOR, "FACE THE NATION": What would make you use the U.S. military in Venezuela? What's the national security interest?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I don't want to say that, but certainly it's something that's on the -- it's an option.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: He's leave -- as he pulls troops out of Syria, for example, he's -- he continues to leave that as -- as an option on the table. Do you believe that the president would use military force for Venezuela?

BREMMER: Well, if we're sending more to the border of Mexico, they're getting closer.

HARLOW: Yes, no.

BREMMER: They're moving in the right direction.

HARLOW: I hear you, on very different issues, but, I mean --

BREMMER: Yes. No, I know, I know, I know. No, I think it's -- at this point I'd be very surprised. I think everyone in the Defense Department has backed away real fast when Trump talks about military in Venezuela. But, you know, that message from John Bolton, the national security adviser, on the manila pad that said 5,000 troops to Colombia --

HARLOW: Right.

BREMMER: That was a signal. They're --

HARLOW: Which did not get knocked down, by the way, from anyone at the White House.

BREMMER: No. And why would they? Why would they? There's no -- it's just notes. It's just notes.

HARLOW: Clarity?

BREMMER: I -- they don't want clarity. And, to be fair, other administrations would handle that the same way. They want to show that they are both putting diplomatic pressure, which is succeeding. The Europeans now as well today saying they no longer recognize Mr. Maduro because he refuses to have new elections.

HARLOW: Right.

BREMMER: So almost all the allies are with the U.S. They're upping the economic pressure and they're upping the military possibility. And all of that, it means that the likelihood that larger numbers of military supporters of Maduro will flip against him and the Russians will facilitate him getting out without having more violence on the streets. That's what we want, right? So on Vene (ph) I actually think that they're more or less in the right direction here.

BERMAN: Ten seconds or less, because my producer is going to kill me, we're out of time.

BREMMER: Sure.

BERMAN: On China, you have some news that the U.S. ally crown prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohamad bin Salman, may be running around the United States' back to make nice with China.

BREMMER: It looks like he's about to make a big trip to Beijing at the end of this month and become much more important to the Chinese economically. Both the Middle East and in Africa. Americans are not going to take well to that, but MBS needs friends right now. He's under a lot of economic pressure.

BERMAN: Fascinating to watch that. The return on the U.S. investment to MBS may not be what they're looking for.

HARLOW: Right.

BREMMER: May not be, yes.

HARLOW: Good point.

BERMAN: All right, Ian.

HARLOW: Ian, thank you. The jury in the case against El Chapo set to begin their deliberations today. How quickly will they decide his fate? We'll have a live report, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:41:24] BERMAN: In just minutes, a jury will be in deliberations in the trial against Mexican drug lord El Chapo Guzman. He faces life in prison for allegedly running the Sinaloa Cartel, one of Mexico's largest drug trafficking operations.

CNN's Polo Sandoval live in the courthouse in Brooklyn with the very latest.

Polo.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, call it judgment day here, the trial of Joaquin Guzman, a man known as El Chapo. For the last really 38 days, about 11 weeks of trial, these jurors have had in essence a front row seat to the inner workings of the Sinaloa Cartel and how it's been responsible for the smuggling of billions upon billions of dollars of narcotics into the United States.

Now with both sides presenting their case, the judge, in a few moments now, will be presenting those seven women and five men with a specific set of instructions. These will be guidelines that they will consider as they determine either guilt or innocence in the case. And they will also go over what has been extremely lengthy testimony here with dozens of witnesses. And that includes about 14 of the government's cooperating witnesses, 11 of whom claim that they either worked for or with Joaquin Guzman as the alleged head of the Sinaloa Cartel.

The defense, though, Defense Attorney Jeffrey Lichtman, on Friday, wrapping up his closing arguments by really questioning the credibility of these witnesses, calling them liars and, of course, also reminding the jury that they had essentially worked out deals with the government. So we do expect again the jury to be instructed later today and then the deliberations begin as we await the face of Joaquin El Chapo Guzman.

Guys, back to you.

HARLOW: All right, important and fascinating. Polo, thank you.

Now, here's what to watch today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ON SCREEN TEXT: 10:00 a.m., Manafort hearing begins.

10:00 a.m., International coalition meets on Venezuela.

1:45 p.m., Oscar nominee luncheon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: FaceBook turns 15 today.

HARLOW: Wow.

BERMAN: In a rare interview, Mark Zuckerberg's sister talks about what the FaceBook founder was like before starting the social network.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:47:50] BERMAN: FaceBook is 15 years old today. And like any 15- year-old, it's going through that awkward phase at this point.

HARLOW: That's a good point.

BERMAN: The social media giant enduring growing pains over user privacy and fighting foreign interference. But mark Zuckerberg's sister says the social media network's CEO is unfazed.

CNN's Laurie Segall joins us now with more.

Laurie.

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN SENIOR TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: It's interesting because I've been working on this documentary on FaceBook for many months and I've been looking at, who is Mark Zuckerberg? Where did he come from? And why is FaceBook where it's at today at 15?

And I spoke to Randi Zuckerberg. And -- this is Mark Zuckerberg's sister. And she talked about the earlier days. And she also responded to the criticism of FaceBook at this moment. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEGALL: Do you have any memories that stick out that just really defines like childhood at the Zuckerberg's?

RANDI ZUCKERBERG, MARK ZUCKERBERG'S SISTER: Mark, I mean he was always talented at a lot of things. I think he really developed a passion for computers and for writing code really early on. He always was building games and building little things and testing things out. So, you know, you could -- you could definitely tell really early on that he was definitely going to be some kind of a creative, inventing genius.

One of the funniest memories that I have with Mark and I growing up is our mom was really nervous about Y2K. You know, everyone thought that the world was going to end and computers were going to, you know, somehow explode. And so at the countdown to New Year's Eve that year, we snuck into the back of the house and cut the circuit breaker at midnight, which is so mean, but so awesome. And we were super grounded.

SEGALL: How do you feel, as his sister, as one who cares deeply about technology, about people genuinely questioning the impact of his creation and whether it's good for humanity?

ZUCKERBERG: He has always just been an incredible trailblazer of pushing the boundaries, you know, of what he sees, where he sees the world should go. And, you know, he has pushed a lot of us to think of the world in a bigger, more connected way than we ever thought it would be.

And, you know, he has never been fazed by what other people think of him. I have to say thank goodness for that because I think if he was the kind of person who cared, you know, how other people reacted, we wouldn't even have half of the amazing contributions that FaceBook has made to the world. So, you know, for better or worse, Mark is not the kind of person who is swayed by what you or I or anyone thinks of him. And because of that, I think we're going to get a lot more amazing things out of him in the years to come.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:50:25] HARLOW: That's really interesting, he's not swayed by what anyone else thinks.

Laurie, this is, obviously, part of your big doc that's coming up. What big questions does FaceBook have to deal with as it turns 15? The biggest questions?

SEGALL: I mean, first and foremost, like, what is the cost of connecting the world because we're looking at it right now. His mission. You hear Mark Zuckerberg say over and over again he wants to connect the world, connect the world. And we're here. And now things are very complicated because they've succeeded in every fashion.

But I think the questions are, is what's good for business good for society? Is that business model under attack? Does it need to fundamentally change? Can FaceBook burst its own filter bubble? You know, this is a company -- there's been some hubris along the way, a lot of hubris along the way, and can they reach out and get help from other people to help deal with these complicated questions?

And then I also think, you know, this is one I think a lot of us are more connected than ever. And because of technology, people feel just as alone.

HARLOW: It's true.

SEGALL: So did, you know, this company that promised to connect us also in a sense make us feel a little bit less alone and isolated with that impact of technology. These are all fundamental questions of FaceBook that I think we're going to ask. And also of technology in the larger sector.

HARLOW: Totally. Thank you. I'm so excited to see the doc. I know it's been months and months of work.

Tune in Sunday. Laurie talks exclusively, of course, long sit-down with Mark Zuckerberg and a ton of FaceBook insiders. What is really going on inside the social media giant? A CNN special report, "FaceBook at 15: It's Complicated," airs 9:00 p.m. Eastern Sunday night only right here.

BERMAN: All right, I can't wait for that. President Trump took steps to pull out of a key nuclear arms treaty with Russia. Since then, Vladimir Putin ordered new missiles to be developed. Is another nuclear arms race on the horizon?

Our John Avlon has the "Reality Check."

Sir.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That's right, guys.

So this weekend, I know this is true for you, John, you were probably obsessing over the Super Bowl. The political pregame conversation was surreal, consumed by blackface and the KKK on the Virginia governor's medical school yearbook page. On the Trump watch, we were treated to the White House officially denying that the president's midwinter orange permatan (ph) is the result of anything but, quote, good genes.

But amid the big game and the palpable weirdness of our political conversation, you might have missed this. The U.S. announced we're pulling out of a landmark nuclear treaty with Russia. That means the world might be on the brink of a new nuclear arms race. And that should get your attention.

The treaty's known as the Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces treaty, or INF. Signed in 1987, it was designed to be a mid-rate ban on a mid- range class of nuclear weapons. Those missiles which could destroy cities within ten minutes of being launched had been increasingly deployed throughout Europe and the Soviet Union.

Now, the INF was a real success. One of Reagan's crowning diplomatic achievements. And it cooled tensions at a critical moment in the Cold War. Nearly 2,700 nuclear missiles were destroyed between the U.S. and the Soviet Union.

So, why would we ditch it now? Well, the answer is, the Russians have not been honoring the treaty. Putin criticized it as early as 2007 and was accused of producing new and intermediate range missile weapons systems during the Obama years, drawing a stern diplomatic rebuke but little else.

Now, a treaty isn't worth much more when only one side is respecting it. The other problem is that the bilateral treaty made sense in a dual superpower world, but much less sense today when it's estimated that 95 percent of China's 2,000 nuclear missiles fall into this category.

Now, unless we all change course within six months, the treaty will be officially over and open escalation may escalate on both sides. And this strikes many folks as unwise. Nuclear arms races are good for arms manufacturers, but generally bad for living things. As Reagan's secretary of state George Shultz recently said, quote, leaving the INF treaty would be a huge step backwards. We should fix it, not kill it.

Gorbachev also weighed in calling Trump's decision to withdraw from the treaty reckless and not the work of, quote, a great mind. It's believed that nine nations now have nuclear weapons and non-

proliferation efforts are in danger of being a thing of the past. President Trump withdrew from the Iran nuclear deal, saying Iran wasn't honoring it and believes North Korea's on its way to denuclearization completely. But his own intel chiefs say that's not true.

Not only that, Trump has dismissed the U.S./Russian New START Treaty as a bad deal and claimed that the U.S. has, quote, fallen behind on nuclear weapons capacity. Quote, if countries are going to have nukes, he says, we're going to be the ones at the top of the pack.

Now, arms control may seem less interesting than Super Bowl parties and associated political scandals, but it is deadly serious stuff. As Mikhail Gorbachev recently said, all agreements aimed at nuclear disarmament and limiting nuclear weapons must be preserved for the sake of preserving life on earth.

[08:55:02] And that's your "Reality Check."

BERMAN: You can care about the Super Bowl and nuclear peace. This is a very delicate time going forward, John. I think that's an important "Reality Check." Appreciate it.

HARLOW: That's great, John, thank you.

BERMAN: All right, "The Good Stuff" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: It is time now for "The Good Stuff."

A Wisconsin police deputy comes to the rescue in the nick of time. And, man, do we mean it. Holly Leppert and her husband William were rushing to the hospital to deliver their new baby, but they got stuck in the awful winter road conditions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOLLY LEPPERT: I knew I had to -- he was coming no matter what, right? So we -- I said, pull over.

WILLIAM LEPPERT: Outside I was calm, but inside I was a nervous wreck.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Yes, he wasn't calm one bit.

HARLOW: Right.

BERMAN: They called 911 and that's when Deputy Allison George arrived to save the day. Deputy George stepped in and helped Holly deliver brand-new baby Nathan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DEPUTY ALLISON GEORGE, KENOSHA COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: This probably will be the best moment that will stick with me for the rest of my career.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: What an opportunity to help out like that. And when the family returned home, Deputy George stopped by for a reunion.

HARLOW: I think I saw it said Kenosha, Wisconsin. I've been there many times. Great people. Great officer. Cute little baby.

[09:000:01] BERMAN: That's "Politico's" note. It all comes down to Kenosha. But it's Kenosha.

HARLOW: It always does.

BERMAN: Absolutely.

HARLOW: It always does.

Nice to be with you.

BERMAN: It's great to see you again. Let's do it again.

HARLOW: I'll see you back here tomorrow

END