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Warren Apologizes Again; O'Rourke Decides on Run; Fact-Checking State of the Union; Trump Honors Matthew Charles. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired February 06, 2019 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[08:30:31] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Senator Elizabeth Warren from Massachusetts is apologizing again after new revelations about her heritage, or claims she has made about her heritage. "The Washington Post" obtained Warren's Texas state bar registration form from 1986 where she wrote that her race was -- I think the word she used -- were American Indian there.

Joining us now, MJ Lee, CNN national political correspondent, and David Chalian, CNN political director.

MJ, first to you, because you've done some reporting on this new information that came out just within the last 24 hours. Tell us exactly what's going on here?

MJ LEE, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what's going on is that "The Washington Post" has reported on a new example that we didn't know about previously of a time when Elizabeth Warren wrote that her racial identity, that her racial background was Indian- American. And, you know, this is an example -- and here's the -- actually the visual of that. You can see this is from when she was actually at the University of Texas back in the 1980s. And I should say American Indian, if I said Indian-American I meant to say American Indian.

This is so significant because in the past we weren't really sure. And she hasn't really given a clear answer. And I think "The Washington Post" did a good job of laying this out, of whether the senator herself was involved in the various forms that she has filled out in identifying her as such. But this makes it clear that this is in her own writing and her team is not disputing the authenticity of this form. They are also not disputing that this is her own handwriting.

I think, John, it is very clear that her team has not figured out how to handle this. And I think a lot of that just simply has to do with the fact that this is genuinely a very, very sensitive issue where they've had to tread very lightly. But I think at every turn of this, there's not been really a perfect solution or a way for them to sort of get out of this political mess for them. Whether it was, you know, people calling on her to take the DNA test, whether it was people really viewing the video and the release of that test as a flop, and then the whole apology last week. Again, I think that this is not an issue that is going away for her

because it is a difficult issue for her to handle and there's not a clear answer on how to deal with this.

BERMAN: Yes, I think there are two things going on here, David. Number one, there's, of course, the process question, which how she is handling this. But this story, in those words, American Indian, which she clearly signed herself, also get to the substance of it.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: No doubt about it. I mean I think the -- it's a race, right? And she wrote in American Indian.

Here -- here's the problem. This has now been six years. This is not -- this is six years that she has been battling this charge against her. And -- and so, as you know, in the fall, she took that DNA test, but then she had to apologize to Cherokee Nation. She just did so again a few days ago. She says that she's sorry that she's not making clear enough the difference between her family -- like ancestry and membership of a tribal nation. She understands that's totally different.

But if you are days -- just a couple of days before your formal launch of your presidential campaign, and you are still apologizing for something you've been answering about for six years, I think it's fair to say that -- that you have not positioned yourself in a way to put this behind you as you begin to launch your presidential campaign.

BERMAN: Not behind you at all.

CHALIAN: Yes.

BERMAN: I mean it's front and center it seems just constantly here.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: No lesson learned from Hillary Clinton and the e-mail debacle and the -- when you're explaining, you're losing?

CHALIAN: Well, you know, the way that Elizabeth Warren and her team around her have said, you -- and MJ just alluded to this. So many people were hammered her, her political opponents, as well as some others, take a DNA test, take a -- so she took it. And that didn't -- that didn't solve this.

BERMAN: Right.

CHALIAN: That didn't put the (INAUDIBLE) in. I don't think anybody really thought it would. But it -- it was a box she checked that she thought she'd be able to point to and then continue to move on.

But the biggest question here is, how many other forms are out there where she may have filled this out? Is this Texas registration form the last of this or does the campaign know if anything else is out there and anticipating something else?

BERMAN: And, MJ, as you look at this and you look at the size of the Democratic field, the challenge for Elizabeth Warren will be, there are a lot of other choices out there. If you're a Democratic voter and you like the message that Elizabeth Warren is delivering, well, maybe you can find that in a package which doesn't have as many question marks or, you know, doesn't have this explaining or apologizing.

[08:35:04] LEE: That's right. And one thing I would note about this Texas bar registration is that one note that they're making -- the Warren team is making is that this was not anything to do with the application to the bar. This was a form that she filled out after she was already admitted to the bar.

Obviously an important distinction, however --

BERMAN: Yes.

LEE: I don't know if this is a distinction that is going to actually sink in for the average person that is sort of tuning in and out of the headlines of 2020, right? And I think the point is that for the people who might already be inclined to sort of question her motives here, for the people who might already be sort of seeing this as an example of Elizabeth Warren having been dishonest or, you know, having used this to try to further her career in a way that doesn't sit well with them, this example, regardless of, you know, sort of the details of the form and regardless of the fact that her team says this had nothing to do with her entrance to the bar, I think this is just going to cement certain people who are already inclined to view her negatively.

BERMAN: Very quickly, David, because we're out of time here. Beto sort of very much opening the door yesterday, Beto O'Rourke, to a run. And Amy Klobuchar is saying she's going to announce something on Sunday.

CHALIAN: Right. In -- in her home state of Minnesota.

BERMAN: Yes.

CHALIAN: So -- so I don't know that there's too much mystery there.

BERMAN: Yes.

CHALIAN: But, yes, when Beto O'Rourke got on stage with Oprah Winfrey yesterday, we got a timeline from him. We're going to get an announcement from him at the end of the month. He said it's a role he wants to play.

BERMAN: Yes.

CHALIAN: So it sounded like he's very much actively in the final stages of coming to a decision about potentially running.

BERMAN: This is going to get interestinger and interestinger as they say in "Alice in Wonderland."

CHALIAN: Yes.

BERMAN: David Chalian, MJ Lee, thank you very much.

HARLOW: We have a new word for the morning. Interesting. BERMAN: Thank you Lewis Carroll.

HARLOW: Yes.

All right, President Trump suggested that he would welcome many legal immigrants during his State of the Union Address. In fact, more than ever before he says his policies just show that's not what he really thinks or what he supports. They paint a very different picture. A "Reality Check" is next.

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[08:41:01] HARLOW: All right, President Trump says he wants more immigrants entering the United States, as long as they come here legally. That's what he said in the State of the Union last night.

So does that mean that the Trump administration has been good for the rights of legal immigrants?

John Avlon with a very important "Reality Check."

What he said last night was so dramatically different, a departure from the policy of his own administration.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: So let's dig in to that, Poppy.

Look, one important part of the president's speech last night wasn't actually supposed to be part of the speech. Listen.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want people to come into our country in the largest numbers ever, but they have to come in legally.

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AVLON: So, that middle part, "largest numbers ever," was an ad lib. And it's one place where the president probably should have stuck to the script.

Now, we all know the Trump administration is obsessed with illegal immigration. But behind the scenes it's also in a quiet war with legal immigration. Trump has blasted what he calls chain migration, whereby family members follow each other legally into the country, despite the fact that the first lady's family is here on that plan.

Now, Trump's made it harder to get certain visas. Even simple visitor visas, which have dropped more than 10 percent under Trump according to "Politico." He's curtailed visas for same-sex partners of foreign diplomats. He's dramatically reduced the number of refugees legally seeking asylum in our country and is even trying to deport some Vietnamese war refugees who have been here for decades.

What's behind all this? Well, former Trump staffer Cliff Sims' new book, "Team of Vipers," he quotes senior aide Stephen Miller as saying, quote, I would be happy if not a single refugee foot ever again touched American soil.

So when the president says he wants more people to come into our country in the largest numbers ever, don't believe the hype.

And then there's this little irony. While the president was blasting socialism, he denounced, quote, government cohesion, domination and control. So it's worth noting that the president plans to use eminent domain to take land from private citizens to build parts of his border wall. Last time I checked, nothing says socialism quite like seizing private property for a government goal.

And that's your "Reality Check."

BERMAN: The words he says, the words he means to say, and then what those words actually mean.

All right, John Avlon, appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Pope Francis acknowledging for the first time that priests and bishops have sexually abused nuns in the Roman Catholic Church. Nuns have been making abuse accusations in recent years in Italy, Latin America, India and Africa. The pope calls it a continuing probe and says even though the Vatican is working on the issue, more needs to be done.

HARLOW: All right, embattled Virginia Governor Ralph Northam's former medical school classmates are coming to his defense this morning. A group of them say they fully believe that Northam is not one of the individuals in this racist photo on his yearbook page. They add, they don't believe the governor ever condoned racism. CNN interviewed a yearbook staffer who says photos on personal pages were chosen by the individual student.

Meantime, the woman accusing Virginia's lieutenant governor of sexual assault 15 years ago is meeting with lawyers in Washington to figure out her next step. A source tells CNN that Vanessa Tyson felt she had to take action when she saw the news about Northam's yearbook photo and worried Fairfax could become governor of Virginia. Fairfax calls it allegation, quote, totally fabricated.

BERMAN: Now here is what to watch today.

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ON SCREEN TEXT: 10:15 a.m., House Democrats speak.

3:00 p.m., President Trump speaks about ISIS.

4:30 p.m., Hillary Clinton speaks at Georgetown.

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[08:44:54] HARLOW: All right, ahead, one of the special guests of President Trump last night singled out during the State of the Union. That man freed from prison after two decades. He is with us to share his story.

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HARLOW: There were moments of unity last night and a big one was on the bipartisan criminal justice reform that was passed. The president talked about that in the State of the Union and he singled out a man from Nashville who was recently released from prison after more than two decades behind bars for drug offenses. Watch this.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In 1996, at the age of 30, Matthew was sentenced to 35 years for selling drugs and related offenses. Over the next two decades, he completed more than 30 Bible studies, became a law clerk and mentored many of his fellow inmates. Now Matthew is the very first person to be released from prison under the First Step Act.

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[08:50:14] HARLOW: Wow, what a moment.

Matthew Charles is with me now.

Such a pleasure to have you.

MATTHEW CHARLES, GUEST OF PRESIDENT AND FIRST LADY AT STATE OF THE UNION: OK, thank you for having me.

HARLOW: January 3rd, when you walked out of prison, was really the beginning of the rest of your life.

CHARLES: Oh, yes, it was.

HARLOW: And -- and then you end up at the State of the Union last night.

CHARLES: True.

HARLOW: What was that moment for you like, Matthew, when the president said -- and I know it struck me watching -- welcome home.

CHARLES: Oh, it was amazing. I mean it was like almost as equivalent to being released from prison --

HARLOW: Really?

CHARLES: Because the welcome home, to hear that society was on board with giving me a second chance was just amazing to here.

HARLOW: Do you feel welcomed?

CHARLES: I do feel welcomed. Much so.

HARLOW: A lot of people don't know -- their first introduction to you was last night. But you actually went to the White House last week, before the State of the Union --

CHARLES: That's correct.

HARLOW: To meet with some members of Congress.

CHARLES: That's correct.

HARLOW: Tell me about that.

CHARLES: Last week we were invited to meet some of the sponsors of the First Step Act and we went over to the Senate, as well as to the Congress, and met some supporters and sponsors of the bill. And then we were invited to the White House to meet Jared Kushner, who was also very supportive and instrumental in getting that bill passed.

HARLOW: What did he say to you?

CHARLES: He just was telling me that he was thanking me for being able to utilize my story to present that the bill should be passed to give these guys -- or inmates a second chance. So I was very pleased to hear that he had used my situation.

HARLOW: You have a daughter.

CHARLES: Yes, ma'am.

HARLOW: A 33-year-old daughter. You have two grandchildren.

CHARLES: Yes, I do.

HARLOW: One of them a three-year-old little girl.

CHARLES: A three-year-old boy.

HARLOW: A three-year-old boy.

CHARLES: And a 13-year-old granddaughter.

HARLOW: And a 13-year-old girl. Can't get that wrong.

What do you want to do with the rest of your life?

CHARLES: Well, my heart's passion is to help the poor and the homeless and single parent families. God instilled that in me, along with my transformation in 1996. So that is one of my primary focuses.

But the ability to be able to have a platform to speak about criminal justice reform --

HARLOW: Yes.

CHARLES: Since I was incarcerated for 22 years, I want to take advantage of that situation and speak on behalf of those that have also changed, that don't have anybody speaking on their behalf.

HARLOW: Tell me about the work you're doing on that front because you wrote an opinion piece in "The Washington Post," the headline, "I was released under the First Step Act. Here's what Congress should do next." And I know your push is for FAMM, for Families Against Mandatory Minimums.

CHARLES: Yes, Families Against Mandatory Minimums was an organization that I had heard of when I first entered in the federal prison in 1996. And Miss Mary Price was the founder of it. But I wasn't really familiar with the organization as far as personal. But once they heard about my situation and reached out to me to help me in this capacity, and now that I actually see that they're still trying to get the laws changed so that the punishment will be equivalent to the crimes that are over punishment, I want to continue to speak and use that organization as well.

HARLOW: So -- so what do you think -- what do you hope would be the next step? This is intentionally called the First Step Act.

CHARLES: That's correct.

HARLOW: So if you had your druthers, what would the second step -- step act be?

CHARLES: OK. The second step act would be something along the lines where there are many that are still incarcerated with extensive sentences, that the First Step Act will not apply to. So I would say the second step should be to see if they can actually come up with something which I have an ideal to be, you know, present to them that --

HARLOW: Just what -- what's your idea?

CHARLES: That if a person is served over 15-year on a sentence that extends or goes beyond that 15-year period, that the court be allowed to reassess that person based on his rehabilitation since he's been incarcerated, as well as his conduct.

HARLOW: And do you mean -- you were, for example, in on drug charges, which --

CHARLES: That's correct.

HARLOW: Which overwhelmingly affects African-Americans in this country.

CHARLES: Yes.

HARLOW: Do you also mean for violent offenders?

CHARLES: No, just non-violent offenders.

HARLOW: OK.

CHARLES: I would say those that have received extensive sentences for non-violent crimes.

HARLOW: Because you -- you write in your piece, I got lucky. Our justice system should not depend on luck.

And previously I believe you served in the military.

CHARLES: That's correct.

HARLOW: Is that correct, before or you --

CHARLES: Yes, ma'am.

HARLOW: You were incarcerated. So what is the single most important thing that could change so that it's not -- that it's not about luck? That -- that -- that you won't be the rarity? What would have to change?

CHARLES: That, say, for instance, when if ever a person is sentence, the judge has the right to say, OK, I'm going to give you this sentence because the federal sentencing guidelines require it or as mandatory minimum requires it, but I'm going to have your case reviewed or your sentence reviewed in 15 years to see if you've been rehabilitated in a (ph) capacity.

[08:55:01] HARLOW: Let me ask you one final question very quickly. Yes, you're out --

CHARLES: OK.

HARLOW: And, yes, you get to start a new life, right?

CHARLES: Yes, ma'am.

HARLOW: But a lot -- an issue for many inmates is jobs.

CHARLES: OK.

HARLOW: How has that been for you, getting employment, really integrating back into society?

CHARLES: OK. When I first was released back in 2016, I went through an organization called Project Return. But there are not a lot of those organizations because Nashville has a population that has seized 500,000 that was in place. But in the small areas, or the cities and towns that don't really have the financial ability to do that, something needs to be put in place for those as well because people are being released from federal and state prison, going to any state and city in America.

HARLOW: Right.

CHARLES: So I was fortunate enough to be able to go through that program, which helped you get job skills and find a job. But a lot of people don't have that benefit.

HARLOW: Right.

CHARLES: So there are job opportunities in Nashville. That's the reason I elected to go to Nashville. HARLOW: And that keeps recidivism down --

CHARLES: That's correct (ph).

HARLOW: If you have a job and you have a goal every day.

CHARLES: Yes, ma'am.

HARLOW: Matthew Charles, thank you very much.

CHARLES: Thank you for having me.

HARLOW: It's really, really nice to meet you.

CHARLES: Thank you.

HARLOW: We appreciate it.

BERMAN: Great to hear from people whose lives have been changed by bipartisanship.

HARLOW: Remarkable. Yes. There you go.

BERMAN: All right, we are expecting to hear from Democrats -- senior Democrats, leadership, very shortly. Their reaction to the president's speech and what they intend to do going forward. New developments ahead. Stick around.

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