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Warren Comments About Trump; Democratic Hopefuls Campaign in Early States; Harris Supports Legalizing Marijuana; Deliberations Continue in El Chapo Trial; Denver School Teachers Strike; Stone, Corsi and DNC Hack. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired February 11, 2019 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: With us now, Kirsten Powers, CNN political analyst and "USA Today" columnist, and Astead Herndon, national politics reporter for "The New York Times."

And, Astead, you were out with Elizabeth Warren in South Carolina. And what makes this moment in Iowa over the weekend so notable is that she's been really careful not to go after the president, not to respond to each and every statement that Donald Trump makes.

So when I heard her do this, I'm like, that's an interesting way of not getting in a constant battle with the president, to say he might be in jail soon.

ASTEAD HERNDON, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Yes, it's definitely an escalation from the rhetoric that we've seen from her previously. In the first month of events, when she was still technically exploring in Iowa, South Carolina, New Hampshire, he tried to stay focused on really big policy ideas. She was staying away from the president and very intentional about that.

But we've seen Senator Warren on Twitter and previously willing to go a little further than other candidates in going back and forth with the president. We know the president likes to attack her. And so I think she sees this as a way to kind of pick and choose her spots to show that she's willing to respond.

But she -- I expect her to still be very careful about that going forward because even though we have these moments, which will take up some air time, she wants to rally Democrats around big, fundamental structural issues. And these are kind of just like the icing on the cake.

BERMAN: And that's the challenge, Kirsten, for Democrats here, which is that I think Democratic primary voters want a candidate who can go toe-to-toe with the president, but there's also an appetite to not be in the mud the whole time.

So how do you strike that balance?

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Stay out of the mud. You know, I don't think that -- I just don't think anything is really added to the public debate by trying to imitate Donald Trump. It's not something -- it's something that, frankly, a lot of Republican voters don't even really like and that they say that they voted for him in spite of it. His -- his base likes it, obviously, but I think that it's something that people recognize has really degraded our public conversation.

So I don't really think that there's really anything in it for her. And you could say, I guess, she's trying to bait him, but he doesn't really need to be baited and nothing is really gained when he makes the attack against her. In particular, the attacks on her claims to, you know, have been Native American. The -- you know, the people who really suffer the most in those situations when Donald Trump attacks her for that actually isn't Elizabeth Warren. It's the indigenous community who has to be constantly re-traumatized by his racist tweets about indigenous people.

BERMAN: And he had one Sunday. Yes, he had a racist tweet this weekend that at this point I don't even need to put back up on the screen because I don't think people need to see it.

But when you look at what issues matters to Democrats or what traits in a candidate matters to Democrats, the top of the list by a lot is a good chance to beat Trump, forty-nine percent. I think we have this number we can put up on the screen.

POWERS: Yes.

BERMAN: Forty-nine percent say a good chance to beat Trump is the number one trait they want. Thirty-nine percent say the right experience.

When you're talking about electability, Kirsten, what do you think voters think that entails? What's the secret sauce that they want?

POWERS: Well, I think people are actually waiting to see. I don't know that anybody looks at the field and says oh, that person's definitely the one who's electable because you don't really know that until the race starts in earnest. Right now people are going on name recognition and not much more, frankly, because most of the people who are running aren't well-known outside of their immediate constituencies, the states that they're representing, for example. And so I think that -- that what that means is, you know, a lot of people talk about Amy Klobuchar and say, well, she's too moderate for the base. And I think there's -- there's -- that's definitely true, she's not where the base is.

But there also are polls showing that people are willing to vote for somebody who doesn't line up with them on every single issue, if they think that they're electable. The number one issue is, can you beat Donald Trump? They want Donald Trump out of the White House.

BERMAN: Let's put up a picture from this weekend, if we have it, of Amy Klobuchar announcing in Minnesota in the teens. The temperature was in the teens there. It was snowing. This is quite an image for an announcement, Astead. And Kirsten gets to what her -- if not her explicit, her implicit theme is here. I'm from the Midwest. I'm from the middle of the party. HERNDON: Right.

BERMAN: I'm the one who can win.

HERNDON: Exactly. And we see her even leaning more into that. She's announced that she's going to head to Wisconsin after going to Iowa, saying that the last Democratic nominee didn't spend time in Wisconsin, famously taking a kind of slight jab at Hillary Clinton. But she's really playing on those themes that this is the party -- this is the part of the party that we have ignored. And I am the person who can speak to them.

She's kind of a rare candidate who even Republican colleagues in the Senate speak very highly of on a personal level. And I think she's really going to try to play that up.

You have other senators who will try to do that as well. Senator Sherrod Brown, who might be getting in the race, is someone who can speak to that Midwestern -- kind of Midwestern roots. But also Vice President Joe Biden is someone who has really played up their electability there. And so you have a couple of people who are going to play that role, but the other ones, the more liberal ones, the more progressive ones, they don't see that as much of a challenge. They say that come a year from now they'll be able to rally voters around bigger ideals and get over this kind of momentary electability surge that they think is fleeting.

[08:35:13] BERMAN: And just a one word answer, that mention of Wisconsin was to try to -- to draw a pretty deliberate line with Hillary Clinton there, obviously.

HERNDON: Exactly.

BERMAN: Interesting.

HERNDON: And some folks -- I mean that can play both ways, you know?

BERMAN: Yes.

HERNDON: You know, there are people who think Hillary Clinton messed up strategically there. There are also folks who think that Hillary Clinton was wronged and that they could look at Senator Klobuchar and think that was too far.

BERMAN: All right, we have a little bit of breaking news here or breaking 2020 action. Kirsten, I can see you're excited in your face.

POWERS: Oh.

BERMAN: California Senator Kamala Harris was doing an interview this morning on iHeart Radio. I'm not exactly sure the name of the show but she talks about legalizing marijuana, which she has supported in the past, in her book and before that, but listen to how she describes it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Legalizing weed.

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That's not true.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know.

HARRIS: And, look, I joke about it, and have joked. Half of my family's from Jamaica. Are you kidding me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Make (ph) me (ph) so mad at you.

HARRIS: But I mean -- right, no, no, I do not. No, no, no. I have had concerns -- the full record, I have had concerns, which I think must -- we -- first of all, let me just make this statement very clear. I believe we need to legalize marijuana.

Now, that being said, and not -- this is not a but, it is an and. And we need to research, which is one of the reasons we need to legalize it. We need to move it on the schedule so that we can research the impact of weed on a developing brain. You know, that part of the brain that develops judgment actually begins --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, so -- so, Kirsten, two things going on here. Number one, legalizing marijuana, which is a position she's held, and is not alone now in the Democratic Party. Bernie Sanders was talking about that four years ago. That's one thing. Then there's the joke about half her family being from Jamaica.

POWERS: This is not newsworthy to me. I just -- she's, you know, so -- if she -- if she tried pot, first of all, it's completely irrelevant. Probably -- you know, that's a -- that's a pretty common thing in this day and age. And it sounds like, you know, she does want there to be more research on the effect that it has on young people.

But, look, I'm sorry, alcohol is legal and people die from alcoholism all the time. It wreaks, you know, all sorts of havoc in all sorts of lives and it's legal. And pot is -- compared to alcohol, it is actually not harmful at all. I mean and so it's just a strange debate that we have in this country where there's so many things that are legal that cause so much more harm and then people get hung up on marijuana.

BERMAN: Former House Speaker John Boehner wants to legal now too.

Astead, very, very quick last word on this. An issue at all for Kamala Harris going forward?

HERNDON: Not that particular one. But I think the larger question of her previous record of being a little hard on crime and how she's going to reckon that with the progressive, Democratic base, that will be the bigger issue. Not this specifically --

BERMAN: Right.

HERNDON: But the larger questions of her prosecutorial record. BERMAN: Astead Herndon, Kirsten Powers, thanks so much for being with

us.

POWERS: Thank you.

BERMAN: Be sure to watch a special CNN town hall tomorrow night. Poppy Harlow talks to former Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz, who is considering an independent run in 2020. That's 10:00 p.m. tomorrow night only on CNN.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, John, teachers in one city say they cannot afford to live where they work. And now they're walking out. Their story, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:42:25] CAMEROTA: Jury deliberations stretching into a second week in the trial against drug lord Joaquin El Chapo Guzman. What's taking the jury so long?

CNN's Brynn Gingras is live outside the courthouse in Brooklyn with more.

What's the latest there?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Alisyn.

Yes, it does seem like it should be somewhat of a no-brainer when jurors are considering the fate of a man who's notoriously known for leading or being the mastermind behind this Mexican drug cartel and all these charges that he's facing and associated with that. But it does seem like jurors are really considering all their evidence.

If you just look at the numbers, the dense -- fact that this case is so dense, it really kind of gives you an idea that they -- they do need some time possibly. They heard ten weeks of testimony. We're talking about hearing evidence when it comes to wiretaps and videos and that testimony was dramatic, hearing from former associates and mistresses.

The verdict sheet alone is eight pages long with 53 boxes that they need to check in order to arrive to this verdict. So there is a lot of sort of things they have to consider here for this case, and it does seem like they are going to take their time. We'll see if this week is the week that we actually do get a verdict, though, for El Chapo.

John.

BERMAN: All right, Brynn Gingras for us at the courthouse. Thank you very much.

Thousands of Denver public schoolteachers on the picket line this morning instead of in the classroom. Negotiations over pay failed to prevent their first strike in 25 years.

CNN's Scott McLean is live in Denver with the latest there.

Scott.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John, good morning.

This will affect more than 90,000 students. They will still be able to go to class, but there's a good chance that their teachers will not be there. Talks between the district and the union broke down over the weekend, largely over money. You see the cost of living in Denver has risen so sharply in recent years that many teachers say they are living paycheck to paycheck, they are struggling to get ahead, and a lot of them say they're fed up. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEEGAN NADON, PHYSICAL EDUCATION TEACHER: It's sad. It's sad that they can't see us and they can't see what our worth is.

LAUREL DAVIS, ELEMENTARY TEACHER: I'm anxious, scared, but I'm also angry. And I think a lot of us are angry. We're just -- we have had enough. We feel like it's been a game they've been playing with us for months.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCLEAN: So the school district says it has put a fair offer on the table. One that would boost the average teacher salary by more than 10 percent next year to $61,000. But the issue for the union is how that money is actually doled out. It would see -- like to see more of it go into base pay rather than bonuses that it says are unpredictable. The district, though, says, look, these bonuses are merit based and many of them also incentivize teachers to go to less affluent schools.

[08:45:01] Today's strike will undoubtedly have some disruption, but not as big of one as you might expect. That's because the district has found nearly 3,000 substitute teachers and central office staff to fill in the gaps for the more than 5,000 teachers and support staff that could potentially walk out today. But a lot of those teachers, they're not actually members of the union. So many of them will likely still show up to class today. As for renegotiations, don't expect those to restart until Tuesday.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Scott, thank you very much. We'll keep an eye on what happens in Denver.

And here's what else to watch today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ON SCREEN TEXT: 9:30 a.m. ET, Sen. Booker speaks to SC students.

7:00 a.m. ET, Beto O'Rourke marches in anti-Trump protest.

9:00 p.m. ET, President Trump holds rally in El Paso. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: They had been thought of as far right conspiracy theorists, but they're now at the center of the Mueller investigation. Our Jeffrey Toobin tells us what he learned about Robert Stone and Jerome Corsi. A remarkable, new profile. He'll discuss, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:50:25] CAMEROTA: All right, Roger Stone and Jerome Corsi, both known conspiracy theorists, and President Trump's informal advisers. Well, now these two are in the spotlight as Robert Mueller's team looks at the potential relationship between WikiLeaks and the Trump campaign in 2016. And CNN's chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin profiled the men and the relationship between Stone and Corsi in the new issue of "The New Yorker."

Great to have you.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: You bet.

CAMEROTA: OK, so, the question you pose at the very top, or your editor at least, what did Roger Stone and Jerome Corsi know about the DNC hack. What's the answer?

TOOBIN: Well, they tried very hard to find out what was in there. Remember, in the summer of 2016, the -- WikiLeaks came out with the Democratic National Committee hack right around the time of the Democratic Convention, but Julian Assange said he had more, and he wanted -- and the Trump campaign, and certainly Corsi and Stone, wanted to know what else was out there. So they set out to find out what else Julian Assange had on the Clintons or the Democrats, and that's where the trouble began, as they say.

BERMAN: And just to step back, as you read this piece, which is, in your normal, vivid language with excellent reporting, these are two strange guys at the middle of a national fascination right now.

TOOBIN: Right. And, you know, also temperamentally so different. Jerome Corsi is sort of scholarly. He's a Harvard Ph.D. But he has written all these -- I say this respectfully -- awful books about, you know, John Kerry in the -- you know, the swift boating. He wrote the swift boat book in 2004. He wrote these terrible, dishonest books about Barack Obama. The Obama-nation, like abomination. He wrote a birther book, where is the birth certificate. And, you know, but he writes these -- he writes these books.

Roger Stone, as people probably remember, is this flamboyant political activist, dirty trick specialist going back to the Nixon days. And -- but they found common cause trying to find out what was going on with WikiLeaks in the summer of 2016.

CAMEROTA: And at one time they were friends and associates, and now they're, what, arch enemies because of all of this?

TOOBIN: They are arch enemies. Just fast forward, as people may remember, a couple weeks ago, Roger Stone was indicted by -- in the Mueller investigation for lying to the House Intelligence Committee. Corsi is, obviously, the chief witness against him. And that has led to a falling out between them.

And just last week, right before my deadline, Corsi sued Stone for $25 million for defamation in the course of the lead up to this case. So can this marriage be saved? Doesn't look that way.

BERMAN: You like how it's all about Jeffrey. Right before my deadline.

CAMEROTA: Well, and he was --

TOOBIN: Well -- yes, but it's true.

BERMAN: It's about me and my deadline and my issues.

TOOBIN: It was a struggle.

BERMAN: Jeffrey, I want to read one paragraph back to you from the piece --

TOOBIN: OK.

BERMAN: Because I found this very, very interesting. And this gets to actually the substance of what's going on here. You say, for a person who is usually categorical in his statements, Stone is cautious when describing Trump's involvement in the quest for WikiLeaks documents during the campaign. Quote, I have no memory of ever talking about WikiLeaks with him Stone told me in Ft. Lauderdale responding to persistent rumors that Mueller had a witness who says he heard Trump and Stone on a speaker phone discussing WikiLeaks. Stone said, prove it.

You've heard him say a lot of things, but on this, the way he was talking jumped out at you.

TOOBIN: Right. Remember, 2000 -- the summer 2016, this is when Trump is saying, I love WikiLeaks. WikiLeaks is great. That, of course, raised the question, is, what did Trump know or what did Trump do to help encourage Stone and Corsi to try to find out what else WikiLeaks had. Stone says nothing. Stone says, well, I don't believe I talked to him. The president has said I didn't have any contact. But it's -- it is, let us say, suspicious.

Now it's not necessarily illegal if he had said that.

BERMAN: No.

TOOBIN: If he had said, go find out what WikiLeaks knows. But it is suspicious that that is the one thing they would not have talked about since it was of obsessive interest to both of them.

CAMEROTA: So you went to visit Roger Stone in Ft. Lauderdale.

TOOBIN: I did.

CAMEROTA: And you were on with us the day that it was such a surprise that he was indicted and arrested in that, you know, pre-dawn raid.

Did he have any sense that something was coming?

TOOBIN: Quite the opposite. You know, I spent the day with him about two weeks before he was arrested and he was -- he was confident -- and I spoke with his lawyers, too -- that the worst was over. That, you know, he had been investigated and cleared.

[08:55:11] He still did have a legal defense fund. He was raising money. And, you know, -- he's involved with "InfoWars," the conspiracy -- Alex Jones' website. And he -- and I got a souvenir there, which I'd like to share.

CAMEROTA: Oh. Yes.

TOOBIN: You know, he -- to raise money, you know, his name is Roger Stone, so he had this big box of polished stones that he's autographing and selling and perhaps we can --

CAMEROTA: That's Roger Stone.

TOOBIN: Roger's stones. See, you get it. You could -- if you contribute to Roger Stone's legal defense fund, you get a Roger's stone.

CAMEROTA: How much did you have to give for that?

BERMAN: Yes.

TOOBIN: I did -- I got mine for free because it would have been journalistically inappropriate to contribute to his legal defense fund, but he's selling the rest of them.

BERMAN: Jeffrey Toobin with his hands on Roger Stone's --

CAMEROTA: Oh -- wow.

TOOBIN: Well.

BERMAN: There you go.

TOOBIN: I -- from -- anyway. Just sometimes you think of things to say and you don't say them and you think, what a good decision.

BERMAN: Yes, you're right. OK.

Thank you for joining us this morning. It is in "The New Yorker." It is a fascinating article to read to be sure.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Jeffrey.

All right, can another government shutdown be averted today? CNN "NEWSROOM" picks up after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END