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Interview with Rep. Lucy McBath (D-GA); Reflections on Capturing El Chapo; Runner Shares Mountain Lion Attack Story. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired February 15, 2019 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[08:31:02] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: One year after the Parkland massacre, the House Judicial Committee advanced the first gun violence prevention legislation in decades.
Joining me now is a member of that committee, Democratic Congresswoman Lucy McBath. She lost her 17-year-old son Jordan in 2012 when he was shot and killed at a Florida gas station.
Congresswoman, thank you so much for being with us today.
REP. LUCY MCBATH (D), GEORGIA: Sure.
BERMAN: I do want to note that tomorrow would have been your son's 24th birthday, I believe.
MCBATH: Yes.
BERMAN: So I just wanted to give you a minute to reflect on Jordan. And tell us if you have ever thought about what he might think of the work you're doing in Congress now.
MCBATH: Well, I think that Jordan would be really proud of his mom and he'd probably say go, mom. He always thought that I could accomplish or do anything that I wanted to.
And I remember one day of Jordan saying, mom, I think you're the strongest person that I know.
BERMAN: It must have taken a lot of strength over the last seven years, you know, since he was killed.
Just tell us a little more about your son.
MCBATH: Well, Jordan was always the life of the party. He was -- had a gregarious smile, a wicked sense of humor, but he always seemed the central focus -- he seemed to be the central focus of all of his friends. He was always that individual that was bringing everyone together. And so I had always believed that he would probably do well as an activist or someone that was an organizer. And I guess I have appeared to be the very things that I expected that he might be.
BERMAN: He is working through you right now in Congress.
MCBATH: Yes.
BERMAN: And the Judiciary Committee yesterday on the one-year anniversary of the Parkland massacre passed some of the first gun violence prevention legislation we have seen in a long, long time.
MCBATH: Yes.
BERMAN: You were a key part of moving that through the committee. How did that feel?
MCBATH: Well, it was surreal, but it was very bittersweet. I had been working on this legislation with other legislators and activists and survivors for the last six years. And I can recall all the times that I sat on the other side of that dais, you know, being in the audience, watching, you know, amendment after amendment be, you know, shot down, so to speak. And so it was very surreal, but it was very bittersweet. I did say that I supported this bill in the name of my son, but also all the other survivors and families that I have worked with over the years that are depending on Congress to do right by them in keeping them safe.
BERMAN: And give us the thumbnail sketch of what this legislation does. It increases background checks substantially, yes?
MCBATH: Yes. Federal background checks for all gun sales. Basically any time a purchaser wants to go to a licensed gun dealer to purchase a firearm, there will be a required background check that that purchaser will go through to determine whether or not they're able to actually purchase that firearm. And it just acts as a deterrent to keep firearms out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them, such as domestic abusers or people that might be severely mentally ill or also individuals that have very dangerous criminal histories.
BERMAN: This is the part of the conversation where no doubt everyone always says to you, yes, it got through your committee, it might get through the Democratic House, but this has no chance of getting through the Senate. What do you say to them?
MCBATH: Well, I don't believe that. I believe that there are senators sitting on the Republican side that truly know that we are doing the right thing. And I think going forward people are going to have to be very aware what their constituency is going to be -- expecting of them when numbers of people all around the country understand that they could have a Parkland at any time in their communities. I think people are beginning to stand up and say, this just makes sense. It's common sense.
BERMAN: In less than two hours the president of the United States is going to declare a national emergency in order to get some of the funds he wants to build a barrier on the southern border. There have been those who have suggested, if there's a Democratic president some day he or she might declare a national emergency to battle gun violence. Would you like to see a national emergency in this fight that you've been working so hard on? [08:35:02] MCBATH: Well, in my mind, there really is a national
emergency. People continue to die every single day. we know that We've got over a hundred people in this country that die unnecessarily to gun violence every single day. That is a public health crisis. It is a national emergency, not a wall.
BERMAN: So you would support if the president woke up tomorrow and said, I'm signing a declaration of a national emergency to battle gun violence? You would support that?
MCBATH: I -- most definitely I would want it to go through Congress. Let's make sure that all the checks and balances are put in place. Let's make sure that democracy works the way that it is supposed to. I still believe that that should go through, you know, the congressional oversight. We need to have public hearings. Let's follow the proper channels to make sure that we're really doing the right thing and not declaring something that can be -- not declaring something that, you know, we're just saying is a national emergency, even though we know that we can go through the entire process to change the culture as we should be doing.
BERMAN: Very quickly, what's it been like to be a member of Congress, and particularly this freshman class?
MCBATH: It's been amazing. I am so excited to be among some of the brightest and just intellectual minds. To be a part of this Congress, the most diverse Congress, the Congress that has the most number of women that have stepped up to take these seats has been phenomenal. And I'm just very excited as a mom on a mission to be a part of them.
BERMAN: Congresswoman Lucy McBath, thanks so much for being with us today. And know our thoughts are with you on what would have been your son's 24th birthday tomorrow.
MCBATH: Thank you. Thank you so much.
BERMAN: Alisyn.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, John, the manhunt lasted years. So what was it like when agents finally nabbed the notorious drug lord El Chapo? We ask the officer who arrested him, next.
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[08:40:50] CAMEROTA: Notorious drug lord El Chapo faces the rest of his life behind bars after being convicted in federal court this week.
CNN's Polo Sandoval caught up with the DEA agent named Ray Donovan who captured El Chapo in this week's "Beyond the Call of Duty."
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RAY DONOVAN, SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE DEA NY: There is evil people in this world and then there's Chapo Guzman.
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): From his days as a young border patrol agent in San Diego, Donovan was making a career out of tracking down drug traffickers and their tons of illegal product. Today, he leads the DEA's New York field office. But in 2012, Donovan set his sights on the biggest target of his career, Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman after his first escape from a Mexican prison. In 2015, when Guzman escaped his Mexican prison cell a second time using this sophisticated tunnel, Donovan and his team had what they needed to begin the hunt.
DONOVAN: When I see Chapo Guzman, I know who the real person is. I know how he thinks. I know that he is an evil, manipulator who wanted to rule the Sinaloa Cartel with an iron fist.
SANDOVAL: Donovan oversaw Operation Third Strike, the multi-agency effort that ultimately led to Guzman's final recapture in 2016.
DONOVAN: The trial and all the chilling witness testimonies introduced the world to the real Chapo, a ruthless killer, money launderer, violent drug trafficker, manipulator, liar, adulterer.
SANDOVAL: In newly shared insight with CNN about the operation, Donovan recalled how he and his team studied the cartel boss after his 2014 capture. It provided valuable intel used in the weeks after Guzman tunneled out of his cell.
DONOVAN: We knew his habits. We knew his associates, his families, the people that he liked to surround himself with.
SANDOVAL: Ultimately, Donovan's U.S. teams, along with Mexican marines, hunted down their man in early 2016 in this seaside city of Los Mochis (ph). In this dramatic raid video, you see marines clashing with Chapo's men while the drug lord escaped out a trap door, only later to be captured nearby.
DONOVAN: Imagine how it was when he escaped. We were defeated. We were deflated. We felt like we lost. We put so much effort into it. To capture him again was a tremendous feat for all of us. And it really was all the different agencies that were involved. There were 22 different U.S. agencies and federal partners that were involved with his capture.
SANDOVAL: A year later, he was extradited to the U.S. A reminder of that day now hangs proudly in Donovan's New York office.
DONOVAN: His prison number is here. These is the various operations.
SANDOVAL: It features an inmate's shirt worn by Guzman when he touched down in the United States.
DONOVAN: When he arrived here in January, 2017, and his face, what he looked like. He was no longer in control. He lost control. He's outside of Mexico. He's on U.S. soil. And, to me, that feeling of defeat that we felt when he escaped, that's what he felt at that point.
SANDOVAL: Polo Sandoval, CNN, New York.
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BERMAN: Ray Donovan, not messing around.
CAMEROTA: And he has a great, cool name as well.
BERMAN: That is some story.
All right, here is what to watch today.
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ON SCREEN TEXT: 10:00 a.m. ET, President Trump makes border announcement.
11:10 a.m. ET, Sen. Gillibrand kicks off tour in New Hampshire.
4:00 p.m. ET, Sen. Harris town hall in South Carolina.
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CAMEROTA: All right, wait until you hear this story.
A man was attacked by a mountain lion and he lives to tell about it. Wait until you hear how he got away. That's next.
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[08:49:03] BERMAN: A Colorado runner who survived an attack by a mountain lion is speaking out. To say he survived an attack by a mountain lion understates what happened here. He fought back. He killed the animal to save his own life.
CNN's Scott McLean live in Fort Collins, Colorado, with this incredible story.
Scott.
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, John.
The first thing that this runner did when he walked into the press conference was ask who was disappointed that he wasn't Chuck Norris? That is fitting because ever since this story broke, his reputation as the guy who killed the mountain lion with his bare hands has grown to legendary status. One local TV station had been calling him the king of the north.
Well, his name is actually Travis Kauffman. And it's the fact that he is an ordinary Colorado outdoorsman that makes his story so remarkable.
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TRAVIS KAUFFMAN, SURVIVED MOUNTAIN LION ATTACK: I ended up hearing some pine needles rustle, like a stick break, and I turned around and just was pretty bummed out to see a mountain lion chasing after me. [08:50:04] MCLEAN (voice over): Travis Kauffman never imagined his first time running this trail near Fort Collins, Colorado, would lead to an intense fight for his life. With injuries still covering his face ten days after the attack, the 31-year-old recounted his terrifying encounter.
KAUFFMAN: All I remember looking down and seeing the claws.
MCLEAN: Kauffman spotted a mountain lion, like this one, about ten feet away. He tried to yell and wave his arms to scare it. That didn't work.
KAUFFMAN: It just kind of kept running and lunged at me. It was going toward my face, so I threw up my hands to kind of block my face. At which point it grabbed onto my hand and wrist. That's when kind of my fear response turned into more of a fight response because I realized how close it was getting to my eyes.
MCLEAN: Kauffman tried everything from sticks to a rock. Again, no success.
KAUFFMAN: At that point more drastic measures were necessary.
MCLEAN: At 5'10" and about 150 pounds, Kauffman managed to pin down the five-month-old, nearly 40-pound animal.
KAUFFMAN: I was able to kind of shifted my weight and get a foot on its neck. And, at that point, I stepped on it -- on its neck with my right foot. A couple minutes later it finally -- finally stopped moving and then jaws opened and I was able to kind of scramble back up the hill and get the heck out of dodge.
MCLEAN: Bloodied and injured, Kauffman ran three miles before finally finding good Samaritans on the trail who helped him to the hospital.
KAUFFMAN: Don't break an ankle along with getting attacked by a mountain lion.
MCLEAN: With wounds to his face and arms and nearly 30 stitches later, Kauffman says he's lucky to be alive.
KAUFFMAN: There was a point where I was concerned that I wasn't going to make it out of it. Luckily that wasn't the case.
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MCLEAN: And this is the end of that trail where Kauffman managed to find help and a ride to the hospital. Wildlife officials say he did everything right in fighting off this mountain lion. But Kauffman says that he knew to pin down the animal's back legs because of his experience playing with his own house cat. And, John and Alisyn, if you're wondering just how rare these types of attacks are, more people died from lightning strikes last year than have died from mountain lion attacks in the last century.
CAMEROTA: Still not comforting to me, Scott. Not comforting. I don't want to be hiking on a trail and have to beat up a mountain lion. Though I could, of course.
Scott, thank you very much.
Joining us now for more is wildlife expert Jeff Corwin.
Jeff, just tell us how remarkable it is that this guy, who was out for a leisurely run with his bare hands beat up a mountain lion.
JEFF CORWIN, WILDLIFE EXPERT: Alisyn, I've got to tell you, this is a herculean story of survival. And Mr. Kauffman did everything right to survive this potentially deadly attack. I am in awe of what this scrappy 150-pound, 5'10" tall human being to survive in this very treacherous situation. It's a remarkable story.
BERMAN: Because he didn't really have a choice, right? What would have happened had he tried to run away?
CORWIN: John, if he had fled, it would have instantly triggered the fight predatory pursuit response of this mountain lion. That's what they do. It's the -- the same response you see in an African lion, a jaguar, or an American puma mountain lion or even your own domestic pet cat. You roll that yarn ball away, you twist that cranky little wind mouse, the cat goes into predatory mode. He had no chance but to turn around, face the mountain lion. And, again, he did everything right.
People forget that this was one of the first times he didn't listen to music on his run. Because it was a new trail, he wanted to listen to the surroundings. He didn't have his earphones in.
CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh.
CORWIN: Had he had his earphones in and that animal was able to dispatch him at the back side at the nape of his neck, he probably would not have survived.
CAMEROTA: It is so chilling to think about how he describes what he heard. He was just on his run and he heard a slight rustling of pine needles, OK. That's a standard sound. But he turned around and there was a mountain lion.
Now, Jeff, John Berman runs in Fort Collins, Colorado, on those very trails. Does he have to worry about a mountain lion the next time he's doing that?
CORWIN: Well, you really don't have to worry about a mountain lion attacking you. This is such a remote, rare occurrence. We can count in our hands the very few people that have been killed or injured by a mountain lion in the last century. These are remarkable predators. These are one of our most celebrated, successful wild felines, guys. They are successful from Canada down to Argentina. This is a cat that can leap from a branch 60 feet up in the treetops to the forest floor below. It can move ten miles an hour over long distances to pursue prey. They're an incredible creature. They're adapted to survive in the wild. [08:55:21] Usually, guys, in a situation like this, when you have an
animal in a conflict situation, the result is because of an old animal that's injured or sick or, in this case, a young cat without a lot of life experience competing with other cats in its territory.
BERMAN: Very quickly, if you find yourself in this situation, and I hope that no one does, what should you do?
CORWIN: Call Travis Kauffman. You know, that's -- you do exactly what -- you do, you turn around, you make noise, you look larger than life. You want this predator to think, I'm not going to be an ease meal to dispatch. And then if you're in that situation and you can't escape, you defend yourself. You do exactly what he did. That fight for survival is that ultimate hard wiring we all have to survive in these situations. But don't be afraid of the wilderness. We share these habitats with these incredible creatures. So this should not happen again, I hope, in the near future.
CAMEROTA: No, I am now afraid of the wilderness. And I'm really just going to curtail all of my jogging through mountain trails now for this --
BERMAN: Exactly, for this.
CORWIN: No, don't do it.
CAMEROTA: All right, Jeff.
Thank you very much, Jeff, for helping us with this remarkable story.
CORWIN: Thank you.
All right, the president is set to declare a national emergency at the border in a little more than an hour. So, many Republicans have warned against this type of action. What do they say this time? That's next.
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