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President Donald Trump Declared National Emergency; Former Vice President Joe Biden Was At Global Security Conference In Munich; Special Counsel's Office Has Revealed A Major New Detail In The Russia Investigation; Illinois Manufacturing Business That Lost Five Employees Including A Student Intern In This Mass Shooting; Mexican Drug Lord Joaquin El Chapo Guzman Has Been Captured; New Version Of Barbie Will Include Dolls With Prosthetic Limbs And Wheelchairs. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired February 16, 2019 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00] ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Companywide liquidation sales start tomorrow. Payless merely the latest casualty now on the age of online shopping joining other big names like Toys "R" Us and Brookstone.
Top of the hour. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera here in New York. Thanks so staying with me.
I want to give you a live look here at Washington, D.C., capitol city of a nation that according to the President is under threat right now by criminal forces crawling their way across the southern border. So urgent is this attack again in the view of the President that it warrants the declaration of a national emergency.
Not surprisingly, President Trump and his declaration of a national emergency to fund the construction of a southern border wall is dominating the campaign conversations this weekend, many of the Democratic hopefuls are sitting lawmakers.
We will be part of the congressional or legal challenge to the President's plan. I'll speak with a member of the House intelligence committee live in a moment.
But first, CNN's Kristen Holmes in West Palm Beach, not far from the President's resort, Mar-a-Lago. And that's where he is spending the weekend.
Kristen, for a country where a national emergency has just been declared, and it not only so far, the President is spending the day rather casually, what can we expect to see of him at this moment?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, if the rest of the weekend looks anything like today, not much. Behind the scenes, he went to his golf club for about six hours, he has absolutely nothing on his public schedule. Now, of course, that could change but right now we are viewing this as a vacation to his Florida resort.
Now like the President, the other thing you are unlikely to see this weekend is what is going on behind the scenes as the White House legal team gears up for this litany of lawsuits. We already know that the ACLU, El Paso County, as well as the civil rights group out of D.C., all of them said they are going to file lawsuits to stop this national emergency next week. And I talk to one legal adviser, one analyst earlier today just to see what this would like. And he pointed me to one of the remarks President Trump made on Friday. Remarks he said he thinks will likely be brought up in some of these lawsuits. It's a time where President Trump seems to undermine his argument. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I could do the wall over a longer period of time, I didn't need to do this. But I would rather do it much faster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: And of course that is that I didn't need to do this. Going from saying it's a national emergency, it has to be done, to I didn't need to do this, but I wanted to do it much faster.
The other thing he pointed out to me is precedent. I know we are going to hear from President Trump as well as other Trump surrogates who say that this has been done before. That national emergencies have been declared before. But what he wanted to stress to me is that no national emergency that was done to bypass Congress, because they didn't get the funding they wanted from Congress has ever been declared before. So this is really a new unprecedented territory -- Ana.
CABRERA: All right. Kristen Holmes near Mar-a-Lago. Thank you.
Joining us now is Indiana congressman, Andre Carson. He is a Democrat on the House intelligence committee and the first member of the Muslim faith now to serve on that committee.
Congressman, thanks for being with us.
REP. ANDRE CARSON (D), INDIANA: Thank you, Ana, for having me.
CABRERA: President Trump did it. He declared a national emergency at the border. You and your lawmakers now have really two paths to fight this, the legal path, let the courts decide or the congressional path put forward a resolution to terminate the national emergency, which if the House passed, the Senate would have to vote on as well. Which path do you see as the best option?
CARSON: The latter, of course. Look. In terms of lawsuits, California has already filed a lawsuit. The reality is clear that Congress controls the purse strings. With that control, we need bipartisan support. So it's going to take Republicans and Democrats to keep the President in check. The founding fathers were very clear about having three separate but equal branches of government to act as a check and balance against the executive branch or one of the other branches. So I think in a very real sense, the President is missing the mark.
He may as well build a 20 foot statue of himself at the end of this border wall because this is purely a vanity project.
CABRERA: Now you do have a number of Senate Republicans who have been very critical of the President in this move.
You have you Rand Paul calling it a bad idea.
You have Marco Rubio saying, there's a crisis, but quote "no crisis justifies violating the constitution."
Susan Collins saying it undermines the appropriations process and the will of Congress and is of dubious constitutionality.
Do you think there are enough Republicans against this move to override a Presidential veto, if Congress does put forward a resolution to end the national emergency declaration?
CARSON: I love to see more Republicans on board which means that the American people will have to contact their representatives and senators to urge them to keep President Trump in check.
We don't need more vanity projects. It's clear with the tragedy that happened in Aurora, that we need gun control legislation that is strong. The House Judiciary Committee just passed the bipartisan act that deals with firearms, it also passed the enhanced firearms act that deals specifically with firearms. The House itself just reintroduced the assault weapons ban.
And so, I think very seriously and critically, we have issues that are more localized that we have to focus on. We just passed a comprehensive package that was done bipartisan in a bipartisan way that will deal with small businesses. That will deal with our infrastructure. That will help create more jobs.
[16:05:41] CABRERA: So I hear you saying, Democrats don't want to be dealing with immigration right now. Don't want to be dealing with border security. You want to move on to other things.
CARSON: Ana, we have a drug -- an opioid epidemic that is sweeping the country right now. The package that we just passed deals specifically with this. We have a series of capital infusions that are going across the country to help spur economy activity. These are things that constituents want to hear about, not xenophobia behavior from our President or our Congress. We want to focus on issues that impact the American people and President Trump is out of step with the public.
CABRERA: Let's dig in to some of the ongoing investigations given your unique position on the House Intel committee. President Trump repeated just the other day, no evidence of collusion. He was referencing the Senate intelligence hearing and nearing perhaps the end of the Russia investigation in their probe in the Senate.
You are on the House intelligence committee. Where do you and your colleagues stand on perhaps reopening the House probe given it was handed over from Republican controls now Democrat control?
CARSON: Well, we took a three pronged approach with director Mueller's investigation. I think the Senate's investigation and the House investigation. It was clear that our Republican colleagues, particularly Devin Nunes acted in an obstructionist kind of way. We want to re-interview some folks. And hopefully we will reopen some avenues that have been overlooked. And possibly we can discover some things that weren't discovered in the previous Congress. I think that's the beauty of having this process unfold and take place as we speak.
And so honestly, Ana, I think that I'm very hopeful about what will come about, because of chairmanship's leadership and the many members, Republican and Democrat, who sit on this committee.
CABRERA: Just a quick yes or no then. So that confirms that the Russia probe in the House is back open?
CARSON: We are going to do our due diligence to deal with Russia and many other things, we are going to make sure that we are providing the necessary support to the intelligence community as well.
CABRERA: OK. Just in the last 24 hours, there was a new development in the Mueller investigation. We learned through court documents, the special counsel team has evidence Roger Stone, longtime Trump confidant and associate, communicated directly with WikiLeaks, the organization that disseminated the hacked DNC and Clinton Team emails in 2016.
Now, if this is true, do you see that as the smoking gun of collusion in a criminal sense?
CARSON: I think it's certainly reaffirms what we have always -- what we thought for some time about Mr. Stone's communications with WikiLeaks. I don't know about the smoking gun. There could be multiple smoking guns. But one thing that is for certain, the Trump team acted inappropriately. And unethically, in terms of dealing with the Russia government and folks and persons of interest in Russia, with the intent of disrupting our electoral process.
And so we are going to let this thing unfold with a three pronged approach, as the Senate is closing in on their query. We still have director Mueller's probe, and we have the House intelligence probe taking place. So stay tuned.
CABRERA: And that remains many questions on whether the public --.
CARSON: Without question.
CABRERA: Whether Congress will get the full Mueller report when it's all wrapped up, William Barr is now overseeing the special counsel investigation.
Read this with me because there is a tweet from Matt Schlapp, the head of the American Conservative Union. His wife also serves on the White House communications team. And this caught my eye. He wrote on Thursday, tomorrow will be the first day that President
Trump will have a fully operational confirmed attorney general. That's true. Let that sink in, he writes. Mueller will be gone soon.
Do you see the Mueller investigation going anywhere or changing tempo even as a result of William Barr becoming attorney general?
CARSON: That's difficult for me to say. I would hope that incoming attorney general Barr will allow director Mueller to continue his investigation and wrap up his investigation. I would be deeply saddened if he were acting in an obstructionist kind of way. I hope he, as an attorney and law enforcement officer, will let Mueller do what he has to do. If there's nothing to uncover, then everyone should be comfortable in letting the investigation continue as it is going.
So we have checks and balances in place. It's not perfect because human beings are imperfect. But one thing's for certain. In the next coming days, months and maybe even year, we will have the answers we all so desperately seek to unearth.
[16:10:28] CABRERA: No doubt.
Quickly, if you will, congresswoman Ilhan Oman of Minnesota, Muslim like yourself, faced backlash this week, after some tweets she posted about Israel that many thought were anti-Semitic. She is new to Congress. You have been on Capitol Hill now for more than 10 years. Do you see this as a learning moment for the new congresswoman about the impact of her words now that she's on the national stage?
CARSON: Of course. We have all had these learning moments. I mean, I have made statements that I have had to walk back. We have all made some statements that have been -- many of us, rather, have made statements that have been considered to be provocative.
But I think she raises some important points in her statement. I think it's a question that we all have to examine on any group or individual that may have undue influence on our electoral process or members of Congress. But that's not to say that she is anti-Semitic. She has a lot of support from the Jewish brothers and sisters from the Jewish community. None of us is above reproach, criticism or critique, myself included, other groups included.
So as a result of this, Ana, we just had a very powerful and moving discussion with Muslims, Christians and Jewish and even secularist members of Congress a few days ago. I was part of that discussion. Sister Ilhan was a part of that discussion. My other sister, Rashita (ph), Jewish members of Congress, Brother Jamie Raskin and others were a part of that discussion. It was a phenomenal discussion about strengthening Christian, Muslim, Jewish, other religion relationships as it related to being legislators. And telling our own personal stories and our own personal journeys.
And when you get into that kind of space, where people can talk freely about their personal journeys because we all have one, you kind of see that we are not that dissimilar. We are all interconnected. We all have our personal struggles and our journeys, how we get to certain conclusions, how we formulate opinions. How we may be open to changing our assumptions that we may have had about persons, groups, that's a part of being able to grow and evolve as human beings, having these kind of discussions and allowing people to say things and walk back. She was clear in her statement. She was clear in her apology. We should rest there and we should move forward.
CABRERA: All right. Congressman Andre Carson, good to have you with us. Thank you very much.
CARSON: Thank you, Ana.
CABRERA: Former vice President Joe Biden may not have announced his 2020 plans yet, but he is not shying away from the international stage. Today he is at a global security conference in Munich, showing off his foreign policy chops and making clear his stance on NATO.
CNN political reporter Arlette Saenz is in Munich and joins us.
Arlette, what was his message and how was it received?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Ana, he was very warmly received here at the Munich security conference. Joe Biden has been a frequent presence here over the years. But he came here today right off the top and said that he strongly supports NATO, and spends a lot of his speech talking about the importance of unity and standing behind our allies, saying that the U.S. should always remain committed to European allies as they have throughout the history of their relations.
Now, his speech came just a few hours after vice President Mike Pence, who was here encouraging U.S. allies to get out of the nuclear deal with Iran. So there's been a little bit of a contrast between the former and current vice president.
Now Biden has returned to the international stage today as he is weighing a 2020 run. And he said he was here as a citizen. But he was still holding meetings with world leaders like Ukraine's President Poroshenko who he worked closely with as he was vice president. He also sat down with the prime minister of Greece, and this all comes as former vice president Joe Biden is trying to decide whether he is going to run for president in 2020. And I had a chance to ask him where he is in that decision making process. Take a listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I haven't reached a decision. I'm in the process of doing that. And I will in the near term let everyone know what that decision is. I think there is a sufficient amount of time to do that. And I think that we have a tendency especially in the states to start the whole election process much too early. I think we should be focusing now on what needs to be done to alter some of the policies that are being promoted by the President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[16:15:17] SAENZ: So, he didn't really offer any clue which way he is leaning there. But a lot of his friends and allies who have spoken to him lately like Senator Dianne Feinstein told our colleague Manu Raju earlier this week that she got the sense when she met with him that is he going to run for president. So we are still in these final stages of decision making for the former vice president. But when he was here today, it gave him a chance to show off those foreign policy credentials that he has really honed in on, since his time in the Senate as well as in the White House. So for now, we are just staying tuned, both back home and here in Europe as to whether vice presidents can be running for President in 2020.
CABRERA: We know you will keep us posted if he gives us some breaking news while he's there in that regard.
Arlette Saenz, thank you for joining us.
It was the Jewel city all across America we are trying to get. But now Amazon says plans to build their new HQ2 in New York quashed. What this could mean about the Democratic Party?
Plus, new details from Aurora, Illinois, where a gunman opened fire after learning he had been let go from his job. Police are set to give an update within the hour. We will have that for you.
And tonight at 7:00 eastern, a day after Colin Kaepernick's surprising settlement with the NFL, his lawyer speaks exclusively to me.
You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
[16:20:44] CABRERA: Freshman congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez celebrating Amazon's stunning decision to pull out of building a headquarters in New York. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D), NEW YORK: We can create 25,000 jobs with mom-and-pops. We can create 25,000 with companies that are willing to come to the table. But we should not be giving away our infrastructure, our subway system, our schools, our teachers' salaries, our firefighters' budgets to a company that has not shown good faith to New Yorkers. And we can ask for more before because we deserve more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: The retail giant had planned to build a campus in the Queens neighborhood of Long Island city for 25,000 employees fueled by $3 billion in state and city incentives to Amazon. The controversy revealing an interesting dynamic playing out right now. Establishment Dems versus the new guard.
Listen to CNN's senior political commentator, former Michigan governor, Jennifer Granholm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER GRANHOLM (D), FORMER MICHIGAN GOVERNOR: Every single governor, Democrat or Republican, are in this fight for jobs. There were 200 cities that competed for Amazon. I would have walked across hot coals to get Amazon to locate in Detroit, for example.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Let's dive deeper into the politics of this whole Amazon situation. Joining us now is Molly Ball, national political correspondent for "Time" magazine and Nathan Gonzalez, CNN political analyst and editor and publisher of "Inside Elections."
Molly, what does Amazon's New York City pull out tell you about the Democratic Party division? Is it a clash of old versus new blood or progressives versus moderates? How do you see it?
MOLLY BALL, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, TIME: Well, look. I am not privy to enough details of exactly how much influence Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in particular had on Amazon's decision to talk about that side of it. But in terms of the debate that we are hearing within the Democratic Party, that is something that is very much happening right now. And it clearly has a lot of power. You have a lot of Democrats who are uncomfortable with the kind of energy that Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez represents. And yet they also see that their party, you know, needs fresh blood, needs fresh faces and that she has excited a lot of people. So I think there's a little bit of a skiddishness about, you know, going up against her. I think they are a little bit afraid of her. And I think she probably likes that.
CABRERA: Nathan, this wasn't even in AOC's Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's district. But people are either giving her credit or they are blaming her for it, depending on how you view at this move. Why?
NATHAN GONZALEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. Well, I think it was a clash - as the governor Granholm said, I think from governor Cuomo's perspective in New York or mayor De Blasio, I mean, they are looking at this as a jobs opportunity. An opportunity to quickly bring an influx of jobs. The Congresswoman was talking about I think bringing in those jobs through mom-and-pop shops, which would take a lot longer.
But I think there is this growing anti-corporate trend within the Democratic Party. Someone who covers campaigns and election's last cycle, one of the big threads in these campaigns was not taking corporate Pac money. And I think that that just going to grow. It's not just Elizabeth Warren. Now you have Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and a host of other Democrats that are kind of taking a stand against corporate America. And I see that that's going to grow as we go on.
CABRERA: Molly, it's not just Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Freshmen Dems, there are a few others who have been shaking things up. And they have become a new target of the President. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They introduced the so called green new deal. I really don't like their policy of taking away your car, of taking away your airplane flights, of let's hop a train to California. You are not alone to own towels any more, you know, and a lot of problems.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Is it good news in some way, maybe for Nancy Pelosi, have these freshmen Dems become the new villains for the Republican Party?
BALL: Well, first of all, most of the freshmen Dems are not on the side of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in this inter-party divide. The Democratic majority in 2018 came on the backs of moderate Democrats in suburban areas. There are a lot more of them. They are just not stars the way AOC has become.
But look. Any -- you cannot have a House majority without a big tent, without a lot of ideological variation. And this was a big problem for the Republicans when they had the House. It's been I think less of a problem for the Democrats, simply because Nancy Pelosi is good at her job and good at balancing all of these interests.
But there are a lot of establishment Democrats who worry that this liberal energy is going to be a bad look for them, that it's going to overreach, that it is going to turn off those Americans who consider themselves moderate. Americans that they need to win elections. If the party becomes identified with what the President is talking about, you know, what he is describing as socialism. You do have a lot -- many Democratic office holders now, openly identifying themselves with socialism. And the establishment Democrats don't want the party to be identified with that.
[16:26:01] CABRERA: So let's look ahead to 2020 and the election, Nathan. How do 2020 Democrats juggle the popularity of some of these young freshman and some of their controversies? Do they need to tread carefully here?
GONZALEZ: First, in order to become President on the Democratic side, you need to win the nomination first. And I think you have to capture the -- a candidate has to capture the hearts and minds of this growing liberal progressive wing of the party because that's where the fight is going to be.
I think when we get to the general election, Republicans are ecstatic about the green new deal or some of the abortion bills that were put forward in New York and Virginia, or the idea of socialism, and people aligning with socialism as Molly was talking about. Because this gives something Republicans something powerful to rally against.
I mean, Democrats are mobilized and energized because they have a powerful enemy with President Trump. And Republicans kind of lack that but they have now these policies or these labels, these programs that they can rally against and I think boost their opportunity in November of 2020.
CABRERA: All right. Nathan Gonzalez, Molly Ball, thank you both for being with us.
BALL: Thank you.
GONZALEZ: Thank you.
CABRERA: Monday night, Amy Klobuchar joins New Hampshire voters to take their questions and discuss what's at stake for the country's future.
Our Don Lemon moderates a CNN presidential town hall with Senator Klobuchar, Monday at 10:00 eastern, only on CNN.
[16:31:51] CABRERA: The special counsel's office has revealed a major new detail in the Russia investigation. For the first time, prosecutors say they have proof longtime Trump associate Roger Stone communicated directly with WikiLeaks during the 2016 campaign.
CNN's Shimon Prokupecz has more details.
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: Prosecutors said for the first time that they have evidence of Roger Stone communicating with WikiLeaks according to this new court filing from the special counsel's office.
Now, it was during this investigation of the Russian hacks, this is the Clinton emails and Podesta emails, that the government obtained and executed dozens of search warrants on various accounts. Used to facilitate the transfer of stolen documents for release as well as the discussed timing and promotion of their release. This is what the special counsel's office said in their filing, that they were able to learn that from these searches, several of those search warrants were executed on accounts that contained Roger Stone's communications with Guccifer 2.0, which was a Russian intelligence agency, and with organization one, which is WikiLeaks.
Now, previously prosecutors had only outlined how attorney attempted to get in touch with WikiLeaks, Julian Assange, through intermediaries, and that Stone sought to learn about what the hackers had stolen from the Democratic Party and how he hoped for its release, so he could help Donald Trump's campaign, prosecutors have said.
Now, the new filing, providing no further details on what was contained in the communications between Roger Stone and WikiLeaks, there is one known exchange of messages between WikiLeaks and Stone, that was in February of 2018. The Atlantic reported stone exchanged direct messages via twitter with WikiLeaks accounts, in which Stone was asked to stop associating himself with the site. Both WikiLeaks and Roger Stone have denied they were in contact about the release of Clinton emails.
And prosecutors have not yet explained in full the extent of which Stone actually reached out to WikiLeaks, making it very much apparent that this court filing, this part of the investigation may not be over.
Shimon Prokupecz, CNN, Washington.
CABRERA: I want to talk more about the significance of this with Michael Zeldin. He is a former federal prosecutor and was Robert Mueller's special assistant at the justice department.
Michael, is it a crime if Roger Stone had direct conversations with WikiLeaks?
MICHAEL ZELDIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It depends on your view of WikiLeaks.
Mike Pompeo, the CIA director, believes that WikiLeaks is a non-state hostile foreign intelligence service. So if you are in communication with a non-state hostile intelligence service about leaking information that was stolen by Russian hackers, perhaps yes. If, however, WikiLeaks is a first amendment protected news organization, not as easy, because they have the same protections that the "Washington Post" and "New York Times" had in releasing these stolen Pentagon papers and the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the publication and protection.
[16:35:05] CABRERA: This week, we had a judge order a gag order on roger stone and his attorneys. His lawyers can't talk about this case at all, but Stone can as long as he is not around or inside the courthouse. So the gag order isn't all inclusive for him. Why would the judge do that?
ZELDIN: Well, because Stone has a big mouth and he talks a lot. And they are afraid that Stone's, you know, communications could be an effort to influence jurors or others in the D.C. area where he will be tried. So she put a moderate restraint on him to say, be careful of what you say. Try not to influence jurors. I'm not going to tell you what's good or bad, you are going to have to figure it out for yourself. And then I will decide after the fact.
Remember, this is sort of what she did in the case of Paul Manafort. And then she found him in contempt for violating it by his talking way too much about too many things. So it's on Roger Stone to be quiet, which may be more than he is capable of doing constitutionally.
CABRERA: Let's talk about Paul Manafort. Prosecutors filed a sentencing memo yesterday. They are pushing for him to be sentenced to 20-plus years in prison for financial crimes. Put the severity of that into context for this.
ZELDIN: So he was convicted at trial in the eastern district of Virginia, of tax violations and bank fraud. Bank fraud being the more serious charge in terms of length of sentence that he could serve. His plea negotiations, you know, lead to two counts in the district of Columbia, and everyone thought, well, he cooperated with Mueller. The two counts in D.C. would be the end result, and that's a 10-year sentence maximum with cooperation maybe six or seven. But Manafort violated that. And so, now we have two sentences, one in
Virginia and one in D.C. And the sentencing guidelines in the Virginia case carry 19 to 24 years and that's what Mueller recommended. So Manafort really did himself a large disservice by failing to cooperate with Mueller and lying to Mueller purposely which led to the breakdown in the plea agreement.
CABRERA: And do you think that hurts Mueller's case, because Paul Manafort was supposed to be a cooperator? A part of him building whatever case he may be building?
ZELDIN: It appears perhaps to be the case that that is a blow to Mueller. Remember, Andrew Wiseman, the prosecutor in this case said that the lies that Mueller made-rather Manafort made to Mueller that lead to the breakdown of their agreement, were central to his investigation. So there's something that they want from Manafort, which they think is central to their investigation, which they are not getting. What we don't know is whether they can get that from alternative means that just may be harder to get it, but they can still get it or whether Manafort is the only person who knows it. And when he fails to cooperate, it really hurts Mueller's case.
CABRERA: One of the things the judge said Manafort lied about intentionally was about his contacts with Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian who prosecutors say has ties to Russian intelligence. What do you see as possible motivation for Manafort to lie about this?
ZELDIN: Well, it's hard to figure out why Manafort lied at all, given that he is now going to face 19 to 24 years in Virginia, and he will get a sentence of about 10 years in D.C. So he is facing life in prison. The only thing that comes to mind is either one, what he knows is so dangerous, he feels is so dangerous to himself, they would rather die in prison than be killed by Russians or Ukrainians, or two, that he has something that he knows the President knows, and that as long as he keeps quiet, it may result in a pardon for him. Or three, which is maybe the most logical theory, is that he's just pathological. And he just has no capacity to tell the truth. And it was manifest in his failure to cooperate.
What's key though, Ana, to your - you know, at the heart of your question is, the lies with Kilimnik go to sanctions, because they go to the so-called Ukrainian peace plan, which really is a proxy for sanctions, so Manafort was talking to Kilimnik about the relief of sanctions, which is the same thing that occurred in the Trump tower meeting on June 9th. And which was part WikiLeaks inquiry by Don Jr. So all of this comes together, and if you can - you are a conspiracy theorist, then you have a lot to, you know, ponder.
CABRERA: All right. We will continue to ponder until we actually see the facts laid out with the evidence, if we get that report from Mueller, as he continues to work through his case.
Michael Zeldin, we really appreciate it. Thank you so much for being here.
ZELDIN: Thanks, Ana. CABRERA: Any moment in Aurora, Illinois, we will get an update on
yesterday's deadly mass shooting. We will take you there live as soon as it happens.
[16:44:02] CABRERA: Moments from now, we are expecting to hear from the Illinois manufacturing business that lost five employees including a student intern in this mass shooting that happened just 24 hours ago.
Police say a 45-year-old worker at the Henry Pratt Company showed up yesterday armed with a gun. He started shooting after learning he had been fired from his job, killing five of his coworkers. Six police officers were also injured. The suspect died in exchange of gunfire with law enforcement.
CNN's Scott McLean joins us now from Aurora, Illinois where the shooting took place.
Scott, police are now saying the shooter was not even supposed to own a gun. What do we know?
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Ana. Gary Martin, this 45-year-old suspect is a convicted felon dating back to 1995 in Mississippi. Yet somehow 19 years later, in 2014, he applied for and was granted a gun permit in the state of Illinois, even passed a background check. The only reason that he was flagged at all, is because after he passed that background check, he applied for a concealed carry permit. And at the point, he had to have his fingerprints run through a national database. And that is when this felony popped up.
And so, in that case, his right to own a gun was revoked. The state police sent him a letter. They have confirmed that they have sent him a letter saying, you need to turn in this gun and you need to turn in your permit.
The problem though is that no one ever followed up to make sure that he turned it in. Obviously, he didn't because he still had it and he used it to carry out this crime. So one of two things should have happened. Either the local police, the Aurora police should have filed a petition with the court to get a warrant and go and get that gun, but the other possibility is that the local police never actually got that message from the state police. They never even knew that they were supposed to go and take it. So there was a failing in the system somewhere, at this point it's not exactly clear which part of the system failed, Ana.
[16:46:59] CABRERA: Police have identified now the five victims killed in this shooting. We know one was a student intern. What else can you tell us about them?
MCLEAN: Yes. That student intern's name is Trevor Wayner. And he was actually scheduled to graduate in May from Northern Illinois University. In fact, it was his first day on the job as a student intern at this company when, of course, this crime was carried out. There were -- the H.R. manager was also among the dead, along with three other people. A mold operator, a forklift operator and the plant manager as well.
What we know is that Gary Martin was called in to a meeting. We can only assume with H.R., and he was fired. And then after that, after realizing the news, he got his gun and he opened fire. Those others were killed at some point in different parts of the plant. It's not exactly clear where. And it's not exactly clear whether or not he was shooting randomly or whether these people were targeted specifically, Ana.
CABRERA: There's still so many unanswered questions in all of this, hopefully we get some answers in the upcoming briefing.
Scott McLean, in Aurora, Illinois for us. Thank you.
It was a capture, 25 years in the making. A DEA agent reveals everything about the hunt for El Chapo from safe houses to tunnels to laundry carts, do not miss this.
You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
[16:51:55] CABRERA: Weapons plated in gold encrusted in diamonds. Soundproof murder rooms and mistresses at his beck and call. That was Mexican drug lord Joaquin El Chapo Guzman's former life. Now he faces the rest of his days in a maximum security prison after being found guilty on federal drug and conspiracy charges.
CNN's Polo Sandoval caught up with the DEA agent who made it his mission to bring El Chapo down.
RAY DONOVAN, SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, DEA NEW YORK: There is evil people in this world and then there is Chapo Guzman.
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From his days as a young border patrol agent in San Diego, Donovan was making a career out of tracking down drug traffickers and their tons of illegal product. Today, he leads the DEA's New York field office. But in 2012, Donavan set his sights on the biggest target of his career, Joaquin, El Chapo Guzman, after his first escape from the Mexican prison. In 2015, when Guzman escaped his Mexican prison cell a second time using this sophisticated tunnel, Donovan and his team had what they needed to begin their hunt.
DONOVAN: When I see Chapo Guzman, I know who the real person is. I know how he thinks. I know that he is an evil manipulator who wanted to rule the Sinaloa cartel with an iron fist.
SANDOVAL: Donovan oversaw operation Third Strike, multiagency effort that ultimately led to this man's final recapture in 2016. DONOVAN: The trial and all the chilling witness testimonies
introduced the world to the real Chapo, a ruthless killer, money launderer, violent drug trafficker, manipulator, liar, adulterer.
SANDOVAL: A newly shared insight with CNN about the operation, Donovan recalled how he and his team studied the cartel boss after his 2014 capture. He provided valuable Intel used in the weeks after Guzman tunneled out of his cell.
DONOVAN: We knew his habits, we knew his associates, his families. The people that he liked to surround himself with.
SANDOVAL: Ultimately, Donovan's U.S. teams along with Mexican marines hunted down their men in early 2016 in the seaside city of Los Muchis (ph). In this dramatic raid individual you, you see marines clashing with Chapo's men while the drug lord escaped at a trapped door only later to be captured nearby.
DONOVAN: Imagine how it was when he escaped. We were defeated. We were deflated. We felt like we lost. We put so much effort into it. To capture him again was a tremendous feat for all of us. And it really was all the different agencies that were involved. There were 22 different U.S. agencies and federal partners involved with his capture.
SANDOVAL: A year later he was extradited to the U.S. A reminder of that day now hangs proudly in Donovan's New York office.
DONOVAN: Prison number is here. This is the various operations.
SANDOVAL: Features an inmate's shirt worn by Guzman when he touched down in the United States.
[16:55:00] DONOVAN: When he arrived here in January 2017, and his face, what he looked like, he was no longer in control. He lost control, he is outside of Mexico. He is on U.S. soil. And to me, that feeling of defeat that we felt when he escaped. That's what he felt at that point.
SANDOVAL: Polo Sandoval, CNN, New York.
CABRERA: Tonight AT 7:00 eastern and a day after Colin Kaepernick's surprising settlement with the NFL. His lawyer speaks exclusively to CNN.
You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
[16:59:45] CABRERA: Barbie is becoming more inclusive. New version of the famous toy will include dolls with prosthetic limbs and wheelchairs. These are part of 2019 Barbie Fashionistas' line which aims to offer diverse representations of beauty. Disability rights advocates are celebrating this decisions saying it removes stigmas and shows there is nothing wrong with people who have disabilities.