Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Border Crisis, National Emergency Declared; U.S. Aid Blocked by President Maduro; Court Challenges and Congress over National Emergency Declaration; Trump Threatens to Release ISIS if E.U. Do Not Take Them; Mueller Probe's New Evidence on Roger Stone; Smollett Orchestrated His Attack; Civilians Fleeing ISIS Last Syria Territory; Building Border Wall Risk Land Seizures; Cross-Exam with Elie Honig. Aired 5-6 pm ET

Aired February 17, 2019 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00] (JOINED IN PROGRESS)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: The "Newsroom" continues with Ana Cabrera right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: You are live in the "CNN News room." I'm Ana Cabrera in New York and right now, two countries both in crisis at the highest level. One is the United States launched into a state of national emergency by President Trump who insist that drugs and deadly crime are pouring in from Mexico. Democrats in Congress call this crisis fake. They're pushing back. Another national emergency in our hemisphere, a little more obvious.

Venezuela, crippling poverty and political unrest there creating a full blown humanitarian catastrophe. And this weekend, U.S. Air Force cargo planes are again delivering food, medicine, and relief supplies to areas just outside Venezuela's border.

Also there today, U.S. Senator Marco Rubio, center of your screen there, white hat. He's promising the United States will stand with the people of Venezuela, his words, every step of the way. My conversation with the senator on the Colombia-Venezuela border in just a moment.

First, though, to CNN's Nick Valencia. Nick, you were aboard one of those U.S. military flights this weekend. What's in those aid shipments and how long before the people in Venezuela will see them?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Basic goods and commodities, Ana, that could be found in an every day grocery store. Things like rice, beans, lentils, but right now, not in Venezuela. There is even a hygiene kits, toothbrushes, toothpaste, nutritional biscuits to help those children that are malnourished, suffering from this crisis.

How and when this aid gets into Venezuela will ultimately be up to the Venezuelan military. Now, we talked to representatives within the Juan Guaido government, they tell you that they are very optimistic that the military will do the right thing, the moral thing, and allow this aid in.

However, there is undoubtedly concern that recent U.S. involvement could provoke an already unpredictable Nicolas Maduro from doing something even more drastic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA (voice-over): It isn't just a mission to deliver basic goods. It's a mission to deliver hope. Over the weekend, three planes carrying 66 metric tons of humanitarian relief made its way to the Venezuelan border with Colombia. The supplies, part of an effort led by the USAID and both the Departments of Defense and State.

Sate Department official, Julie Chung, helped lead the mission to assist the millions impacted by what she called a man-made crisis created by Venezuelan president Nicolas Maduro.

JULIE CHUNG, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: The only thing stopping us is the Maduro regime. We've seen them block the bridges, block the roads. It's an abomination to humanity to stop basic necessities and goods from entering your country to help your own people.

VALENCIA (on camera): Is there any concern that something like this would provoke him from doing something even more drastic, that this could perhaps be seen as further politicizing a crisis?

CHUNG: If anyone is politicizing the crisis, it's Maduro.

VALENCIA (voice-over): Lester Toledo, a representative of self- declared interim Venezuelan president Juan Guaido, joined the U.S. officials on the trip to the border. He was there when the first stage of U.S aid arrived on the Venezuelan borer, February 8th. I asked him if this is the year Venezuela will turn the corner. He said he thinks it'll happen in a matter of weeks.

(on camera): This is the second shipment of humanitarian aid sent by the U.S. government to help Venezuela in the last two weeks. They say it is part of their commitment to interim president Juan Guaido. Inside these palettes, they say, is enough to feed 3,500 children and up to 25,000 adults.

VALENCIA (voice-over): Landing in Colombia, the humanitarian convoy was greeted by USAID director Mark Green. He said the aid is arriving at the most critical time.

MARK GREEN, USAID ADMINISTRATOR: The crisis Venezuelans are fleeing is man-made.

VALENCIA (voice-over): In a matter of minutes, the supplies were offloaded and driven to this warehouse in Cucuta, Colombia, positioned only a few hundred yards from Venezuela. The question now, with the border closed and Maduro's regime showing no sign of backing down, how to get the supplies to the people who need it most.

(on camera): The USAid director, Mark Green, said that this is the most critical time for that aid for the people of Venezuela. It comes at a time, Ana, when children are starving in the country, children that don't have to starve, children who are malnourished, hospitals that are struggling to stay open and provide for the people of Venezuela. This is now, according to the U.S. officials who are on that flight,

one of the largest displacements of people in the history of Latin America, Ana.

CABRERA: It is a stark reality there. Thank you, Nick Valencia. Joining me now in a U.S. Network exclusive, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida. He is in Cucuta, Colombia where U.S. humanitarian aid just arrived yesterday. Senator, tell us, what are you doing there on the Venezuela border today and why was it important for you to be there?

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Well, I mean, the first thing is obviously the United States has made a big contribution thanks to USAid and prepositioning all of this aid that is ready go to help the people of Venezuela who desperately need it. The second obviously is to thank our Colombian allies who have done a phenomenal job.

[17:05:00] I cannot say enough about President Duque and how the Colombian people and the Colombian government have stepped forward and just done extraordinary things for their neighbors. And third is to speak to the people of Venezuela. We're just, you know, less than a mile away from the Venezuelan border, and to be able to let them know not to give up, that the world is with them. That we will stand with them.

United States and the international community, every step of the way, no matter how long this takes, until freedom is restored in Venezuela. But this really, the number one issue right now is how do we get food and medicine to people who are dying of preventable diseases and starving to death because the regime and the dictator does not allow humanitarian aid to reach them.

CABRERA: And so on that note, Nicolas Maduro has said he believes the USAid is a Trojan horse intended to oust him from power. What happens if he doesn't let that aid through?

RUBIO: Well, look, the aid is going to get through. And I think ultimately the question is whether it gets through in a way that he's cooperative with or in a way he's not. But there's no way you're going to stand ultimately in the way of a people whose children are starving to death, whose families are dying in hospitals because of preventable diseases and they don't have the medicine for it.

So, obviously tactics are something I'm not going to publicly announce to allow the regime and their allies to make efforts to block it, but I would say this. Imagine for a moment if you're a member of the National Guard or the Venezuelan military. Your own family is hungry. Your own family is starving. Your own relatives are dying because they can't get dialysis or HIV medications.

And you're going to follow an order to block that from reaching the people. I think the bigger threat comes from these criminal bands that he has empowered. Literally, just street thugs that he has given guns to. They are the ones that present a greater danger.

But I will say this to you. We know, if there is violence next week and people are harmed here, we know who's responsible for it and every single one of them will pay a price. They will face justice or spend the rest of their lives worried about justice catching up to them.

CABRERA: President Trump has said nothing is off the table. Would you support any military intervention and do you believe it will come to that?

RUBIO: Well, the only military intervention that's happening now in Venezuela is the Cuban government. The Cubans that are controlling everything that is happening, the security forces and everything else. The United States retains the right to utilize military force in its national security interest anywhere in the world. That's not just Venezuela. That's anywhere on the planet.

But that's not what we're here to do today. There's no military aid here. This is food. This is high-energy bars for starving children. This is rice. This is beans and lentils. These are sanitary kits. This is medicine. That's what we're here to do and none of that has anything to do with military intervention.

CABRERA: Right.

RUBIO: Feeding people is not anything to do with the military. And in fact, there is a crime against humanity to deny food and medicine to unarmed and innocent civilians.

CABRERA: I understand that and I agree with you on that, but would you support military intervention ultimately?

RUBIO: Well, it's not my decision to make. I ultimately will tell you I support defending the national interests and national security of the United States anywhere in the world where that's being threatened. And ultimately, I'll leave it at that because that's not what we're focused on right now.

I will say this, and I won't go any further than to say this to you. There are certain lines, and Maduro knows what they are, and if they are crossed, I am confident based on everything I've heard from this administration and everything I know about this administration, that the consequences will be severe and they'll be swift, and he's aware of that.

But again, our focus here has nothing to do with that. It has to do with food and medicine, that's what we're hoping will happen and we're expecting to happen starting next week.

CABRERA: You are at the Colombia-Venezuela border. President Trump just declared a national emergency to build a wall to protect the southern U.S. border. It's a move I know you have opposed. Would you vote for a resolution disapproving the emergency declaration?

RUBIO: Well, let me tell you something I did since the beginning of my time in the Senate, and that is when I'm overseas, I don't care whether President Obama was president and now a president from my own party. I don't discuss, debate, or in any way attack any administration when I'm overseas doing work that's overseas.

I'm on the record talking about how I feel about that. I refer you back to it. I'm not trying to -- you can ask me on Monday when I'm back stateside and I'm more than happy to answer it there. But when I'm overseas, I just don't criticize our government, nor do I speak about domestic political issues while we're here.

CABRERA: You don't have to criticize the government. Are there enough Republican senators to get a super majority overriding a potential presidential veto?

RUBIO: I don't know. As I said, I have no idea. I mean, we'll find out, maybe we won't. But as I said, right here today, we're here focused on Venezuela and on this bipartisan support that exists for this. It's another important point to make. There is extraordinary bipartisan support for what U.S. policy towards Venezuela is, and that's important for the Venezuelan people to know.

CABRERA: You are still a U.S. Senator, and the president just declared a U.S. national emergency. Is there a national emergency happening right now in the U.S. at the U.S. southern border?

RUBIO: Well, that's the third time you asked me the same question and it's going to be the same answer.

[17:10:01] I've made public statements on this. They're out there. I've tweeted about it. I encourage you to refer to those and I'm more than happy to talk about it again on Monday when I'm back. But when I'm overseas, I just don't talk about domestic politics. It's a practice that frankly has been a tradition of U.S. office holders for a long time.

CABRERA: OK. Before I let you go back to Venezuela for the one more moment, you said there is a red line in this situation in Venezuela. What is that red line?

RUBIO: Well, I think some are obvious. We have U.S. personnel still working inside of Venezuela. Should any harm come to them, I believe based on everything I know about this administration, the consequences will be severe and swift. We expect a legitimate government, a national assembly and its interim president, Juan Guaido, for freedom and liberties to be respected, not to mention his life.

And of course, innocent people, people that are doing nothing. If you come -- if you are walking down the street carrying humanitarian aid peacefully, food, medicine, and nothing else, you should not be the target of violence. And if you are, I don't just think the U.S. would respond to something like that. I think the world would.

But obviously, we hope it doesn't come to it because at the end of the day, I think there are hopefully enough good people left in that regime or around it, I should say, in the security forces at the ground level, at the rank and file level, who are not going to deny their own parents, their own neighbors, their own mothers and fathers, their own children food and medicine.

CABRERA: All right. Senator Marco Rubio, again, joining us from the Colombia-Venezuela border. Thank you very much for taking the time.

RUBIO: Thank you.

CABRERA: Back to the emergency declaration now in the U.S. and the brewing legal battle over the president's latest action to fund the border wall. Lines in the sand are being drawn and while some Republicans remain divided over whether the president has overstepped his authority here, Democrats are united, calling this move unconstitutional and planning a vote to stop it.

Meanwhile, California's attorney general says he will file a lawsuit to stop this emergency declaration since it would siphon money from projects already funded in his state. And he says other states are set to follow his lead. One of the president's closest advisers, Stephen Miller, was pressed on this issue this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS HOST: Can you name one case where a president has asked Congress for money, Congress has refused, and the president has then invoked national powers to get the money anyway?

STEPHEN MILLER, TRUMP SENIOR POLICY ADVISER: Well, this current situation --

WALLACE: Just yes or no, sir.

MILLER: The current situation pertains specifically to the military construction authority. I think it puts the --

WALLACE: I'm just asking, has there been a single case where Congress asked for money for military construction, Congress said no, and he then --

MILLER: The meaning of the statute, Chris, is clear on its own terms. If you don't like the statute or members of Congress don't like the statute --

WALLACE: Would you agree the answer is no? There hasn't been a single case like this.

MILLER: They should have changed it a long time ago. But the premise of your question is also false because Congress has appropriated money for construction of border barriers consistently. This is part of a national security admission --

WALLACE: But he's never done this under a national emergency where --

MILLER: We've declared national emergencies to promote democracy in Belarus, to promote democracy in Zimbabwe, to --

WALLACE: But it didn't involve taking money that Congress refused to appropriate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: CNN's Sarah Westwood is in West Palm Beach near where the president is spending the weekend. Sarah, reaction has been pouring in. Walk us through the arguments put forth by both sides.

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Ana, the president's latest move has opened up even more divides among lawmakers on Capitol Hill even among just Republicans, some of whom support the president's approach in this matter, some of whom don't. Democrats have always opposed the construction of a border wall no matter the funding source.

But they say that the president's national emergency declaration is an unconstitutional use of executive authority, that the president is only using it to deliberately go around Congress, which had weeks to appropriate money for the border wall but declined to.

There are some Republicans who are concerned about the precedent that a national emergency declaration used in this way might set, but other Republicans are arguing that there is a genuine national security and humanitarian crisis on the border that needs to be addressed somehow.

So obviously, there were a lot of differing opinions about the situation floating around right now. Just take a listen to the starkly different opinions voiced by Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff and Republican Congressman Jim Jordan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: This is the first time a president has tried to declare an emergency when Congress explicitly rejected funding for the particular project that the president is advocating. And in saying just the other day that he didn't really need to do this, he just wanted to do it because it would help things go faster. He's pretty much daring the court to strike this down.

REP. JIM JORDAN (R), OHIO: All I know is this is a serious situation, this is a crisis. Look at the drug problem, the human trafficking problem, the gang violence problem. That's why we need the border security wall, and that's what the president is committed to making sure happens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:14:57] WESTWOOD: Now, White House officials say the president is prepared to defend his declaration against these expected legal and Congressional challenges to the constitutionality of this move. So, Ana, there are a number of roadblocks facing the administration before they ever get a penny of that $6 billion in federal funds Trump is trying to unlock with this declaration.

CABRERA: Sarah Westwood near West Mar-a-Lago, thank you. Actors -- lawyers, I should say, for actor Jussie Smollett are now responding to reports that police have evidence he orchestrated his own attack.

Plus, the president is giving European allies a new ultimatum, why he's threatening to release ISIS fighters in Syria. And for the first time, prosecutors say they have evidence of Roger Stone communicating directly with WikiLeaks. So what does this mean? We'll break it all down for you straight ahead live in the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Law enforcement sources now tell CNN Chicago police have new evidence suggesting the "Empire" actor paid two men to orchestrate this attack.

[17:20:03] Jussie Smollett initially told authorities the men yelled racial and homophobic slurs and one put a rope around his neck during the alleged assault last month. The two men are now said to be cooperating with the investigation.

This is just the latest twist following a tearful interview Thursday with "Good Morning America" in which Smollett gave a detailed account of the attack and how desperate he was for the suspects to be caught.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSSIE SMOLLETT, ACTOR: I was talking to a friend and I said, I just want them to find them. And she said, sweetie, they're not going to find them. It just made me so angry because, so I'm just going to be left here with this. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm just going to be left here with -- with, like --

So they get to go free and go about their life and possibly attack someone else, and I'm here, left with the aftermath of this bull? That's not cool to me. That's not OK. So, I understand how difficult it will be to find them.

(END VIDEO CLIP))

CABRERA: Chicago police now want to speak with Smollett again as soon as possible. CNN's Ryan Young is in Chicago. Ryan, what are you hearing now from Smollett's attorneys about this new evidence?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you could understand why police would want to talk to him again. And look, last night in a statement released to CNN, Smollett's attorneys wrote in part, "As a victim of a hate crime who has cooperated with the police investigation, Jussie Smollett is angered and devastated by recent reports that the perpetrators are individuals he's familiar with.

He has now been further victimized by claims attributed to these alleged perpetrators that Jussie played a role in his own attack. Nothing is further from the truth, and anyone claiming otherwise is lying."

So obviously, a strong statement from those lawyers, but so much of this investigation is now playing out in the public with so many more questions. Ana?

CABRERA: Where does the investigation go from here then?

YOUNG: Well, that's a great question. We know 12 detectives are currently working this case. They have been working it from the very beginning. What we have learned from parts of this investigation is look, they looked at ride-sharing information, they looked at taxicab receipts from the area, and they've been able to pick up these two brothers on video at some point.

And there's an extensive video surveillance system throughout the city So they've been able to see and track parts of the men as they're going home. We know they went to their home and they started going through some of the items that they have there.

The idea these brothers may be talking with police and they want to talk to the actor again, it's a very -- it sets up a very interesting week to see if the actor comes back in to talk with detectives to try to figure this all out.

CABRERA: And of course, still no official arrest or charges just yet in this case. Ryan Young, thank you for staying on top of it.

President Trump says the war on ISIS is won, but now he's issuing a bold ultimatum to U.S. allies, even threatening to release ISIS fighters who have been captured. Details ahead, live in the "CNN Newsroom."

[17:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Welcome back. President Trump today urging key European allies to take back 800 ISIS fighters captured in Syria or the U.S. will release them. His message is part of a hard push on allies to help stabilize Syria ahead of the planned U.S. troop withdrawal. The president tweeting in part, "The U.S. is asking Britain, France, Germany, and other European allies to take back over 800 ISIS fighters that we captured in Syria and put them on trial.

The alternative is not a good one, in that we will be forced release them. The U.S. does not want to watch as these ISIS fighters permeate Europe, which is where they are expected to go." A crucial U.S. Ally today responding to Trump's threat.

Germany's interior ministry spokeswoman saying, "All German citizens including those suspected of having fought for ISIS, have the right to return to Germany." She adds, "For the group of jihad returnee, extensive measures of police and criminal law will be examined in Germany in the case of imminent re-entry."

The president's Syria plan is not getting rave reviews from the outgoing U.S. military commander in the Middle East. General Joseph Votel, the head of the U.S. Central Command telling CNN on Friday he disagrees with Trump's decision to withdraw troops in Syria because he believes ISIS is not yet defeated.

CNN's senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman reports on fresh concerns of ISIS fighters trying to escape by hiding among thousands of civilians who are fleeing the last slivers of ISIS-controlled lands.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kurdish soldiers, female soldiers frisk the veiled women one by one after they fled ISIS' last enclave in Syria. Bags are searched, scissors, nail clippers confiscated. The soldiers say this morning they found a pistol in one purse.

They both inhabit this land but live in different worlds. This woman only identifies herself as Umm Merrian (ph), the mother of Merrian. Her description of conditions in the town of Baghouz Al-Fawqani, bleak.

"There are lots of shelling, lots of wounded," she says.

The men folk are held apart, waiting to be questioned by Kurdish, American, French, and British intelligence officers on the lookout for ISIS members and foreign nationals trying to escape among the civilians.

[17:30:06] Prior to the launch of the offensive on ISIS' last sliver of land, Syrian Democratic Forces officials said about a 1,500 civilians were inside.

(on camera): What's clear is that officials have massively underestimated the number of civilians in the town. Within the last three days, more than 2,000 people have left Baghouz Al-Fawqani, and there may still be thousands left inside.

(voice-over): Inside and under heavy round-the-clock air and land bombardment. There is no clear picture of the number of civilians killed and wounded. The accounts of those who have escaped to this area where those fleeing are registered, impossible to verify.

(Inaudible) and her family were staying in a camp for the displaced inside the town. She says they left with bullets flying over their heads. "Yesterday, rockets hit the camp," she tells me. "They killed civilians. As soon as the planes see movement, they strike. They don't know if they're hitting ISIS or civilians."

(Inaudible) was in the same camp. "There was hunger, fear, bombing, cold," she says. "Many women and children were killed, but there was no ISIS there." As they wait to be trucked to a camp for the displaced north of here, there is no bombing. There is hunger, thirst, and misery. Supplies arrive. They're gone in seconds. Children jostle in the dust for scraps. Ben Wedeman, CNN, on the plains of eastern Syria.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Back here at home, some residents along the Texas border are now expressing concern about the president's national emergency declaration and what construction of a border wall means for them. Why they're not happy about it, live in the "CNN Newsroom."

[17:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Anxiety is running high for those who live along the Texas- Mexico border in the wake of President Trump's national emergency declaration. Some property owners could lose at least part of their land to the government and they may even find themselves in a so- called no man's land, cut off from the rest of the country. CNN's Ed Lavandera went to the border to find out what these Texans are facing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Along a quiet stretch of the Rio Grande in south Texas, there's a place that's just home to butterflies, hundreds of different species. And Marianna Wright has spent the last two years fighting to keep President Trump's border wall from cutting through the 100 acres of the National Butterfly Center in Mission, Texas.

MARIANNA WRIGHT, NATIONAL BUTTERFLY CENTER: Here Sylvia (ph) where they just came and put all these stakes out. They'll be starting on this federal piece of land.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Last year, Congress approved the construction of 33 miles of new border barrier in the Rio Grande Valley, and construction is about to begin in the coming weeks. Part of the wall was supposed to cut right through the Butterfly Center, leaving some of the property south of the border wall and some north. The government used eminent domain to seize the necessary land to build the wall, much to the dismay of the center's executive director.

WRIGHT: They're seizing the land of tax-paying citizens and pushing the boundaries of Mexico north of the Rio Grande River, something General Santa Ana was never able to do. Trump is making America smaller, not greater.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): But the Congressional Spending Bill offered a last-minute reprieve to the Butterfly Center and four other specific locations. For now, no border wall in the Butterfly Center, but wall will come right up to their property lines and leave a quarter mile stretch of the center's property wide open.

But Butterfly Center officials say they're worried the Trump administration would use the national emergency declaration to keep trying to close the gap, and they're worried about what it's doing to the other landowners who haven't been spared.

WRIGHT: This is a shame. This is a national disgrace. And the idea that it's going to happen and produce none of the purported benefit -- I mean, that's like going and buying a new car and driving it into a building. Why would you do that?

LAVANDERA (voice-over): The Butterfly Center's legal battles paint a poignant picture of what lies ahead. The Congressional Spending Bill compromise allocates nearly $1.4 billion to construct another 55 miles of border barrier in various locations in the Rio Grande Valley.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've got to get rid of drugs and gangs and people. It's an invasion. We have an invasion of drugs and criminals coming into our country that we stop, but it's very hard to stop. With a wall, it would be very easy.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Much of this new construction will be on private property, which means the federal government will likely have to sue land owners to acquire the land. Down the road from the National Butterfly Center, Fred Cavazos (ph) and his family are still trying to stop the construction of the looming barrier. FED CAVAZOS, MISSION RESIDENT: We've had this property for all our

lives.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Cavazos and his family own 70 acres that will be left south of the border barrier, in a no man's land. They've been tied up in eminent domain litigation but are losing hope they'll stop the wall from being built starting in the next few weeks.

(on camera): So you're running out of time?

CAVAZOS: Yes. What can you do? You can't fight the government. We'll try. We'll try to stop them and stall a little bit. We can't stop the government. They'll do what they want to do.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): So the Rio Grande Valley braces for what most residents here say is the unwelcome wall. Ed Lavandera, CNN, Mission, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[17:40:06] CABRERA: For more on the fallout, I want to bring in Democratic strategist Dave Jacobson and Republican consultant John Thomas. Listen to what Congressman Adam Schiff told CNN this morning about the president's emergency declaration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHIFF: In saying just the other day he didn't really need to do this, he just wanted to do it because it would help things go faster, he's pretty much daring the court to strike this down. It is going to be a real test for my GOP colleagues in Congress and their devotion to the institution.

If we give away -- if we surrender the power of the purse, which is our most important power, there will be little check and no balance left. It'll not be a separation of powers anymore, just a separation of parties. So this is going to be a moment of truth for my GOP colleagues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: John, do you agree that this is a test for the GOP and how challenging of a spot does this put moderate Republicans in right now?

JOHN THOMAS, REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: Well, I'd think -- I think Adam Schiff is trying to put pressure on the GOP to go against the president, but there are two things. First of all, most elected members of the Republican Party nationally do believe that there is a crisis at the border. They want to stop sex trafficking. They want to reduce illegal immigrants coming into this country.

So, I don't think you're going to see a major defection here. But I think Adam Schiff also is shifting the conversation away from really what the courts are going to end up deciding. I think -- it's not whether Trump thinks this is a way to expedite his plans, but simply is this -- does the president have the authority to declare a national emergency in this context? I think the answer is going to be yes.

CABRERA: Dave, the president is painting Democrats as this party that wants no border security at all. In fact, Beto O'Rourke said this just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETO O'ROURKE, FORMER REPRESENTATIVE OF EL PASO, TEXAS: Those refugees, those immigrants, makes us stronger, makes us more successful, and yes, makes us more secure. So at a time when not a single terrorist, terrorist organization has planned or attacked the United States exploiting the U.S.-Mexico border, we don't need another wall. We don't need another fence. Because let me tell you this --

(APPLAUSE)

Walls do not, as the president has claimed, save lives. Walls end lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: The president -- Republicans want Americans to believe that Democrats don't want any walls at the border. Is that the best message for Democrats going into an election year, what we just heard from O'Rourke?

DAVE JACOBSON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, look, I think the Democrats clearly voted for border security. They just support more technology, enhancing the technology. They support more Border Patrol agents. What they don't support is this blatant power grab that goes against the constitution by Donald Trump.

The fact of the matter is this is an abuse of presidential power. It's reckless. And the American people see that clearly. I mean, we have seen in poll after poll, Ana, whether it's CNN's poll from earlier this February, 66 percent of Americans don't support this national emergency declaration to build the wall.

In fact, interestingly in that poll, if the president cares at all about his 2020 presidential election, among independents, a whopping 63 percent of independent voters oppose this national emergency declaration. So, we have seen consistently that among public opinion, the American people, you know, obviously are wholeheartedly against this, and they see this nothing more than an abuse of power and a reckless power grab.

CABRERA: We know Congress could stand up to the president and vote on a resolution to disavow this move. Democrats are also threatening to sue the president over this emergency declaration. Today, California's A.G. said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC NEWS HOST: Mr. Attorney general, let me ask you, can you say definitely that California will be filing a lawsuit and when that will happen? XAVIER BECERRA, CALIFORNIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Martha, definitely, and

imminently.

RADDATZ: And imminently, Monday? Nothing will stop you.

BECERRA: No reason. We are prepared. We knew something like this might happen. And with our sister state partners, we are ready to go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: John, the legal battle is under way. If the president loses in the lower courts, this is all going to come down to the conservative-leaning Supreme Court, right?

THOMAS: Yes, and I think the president even said in his press conference on Friday that he fully understood this will be settled in the courts. He thinks he will lose in the first couple rounds. And really, this comes -- is likely to come down to what does John Roberts think about a president's ability to declare a national emergency? I think that's what it's going to be.

And what's interesting is, we probably won't see any final decision out of the Supremes for months. This argument may not be settled until right before election time.

[17:45:01] So, your earlier question, Ana, to Dave about what the political consequences are about having Beto O'Rourke saying walls kill people and walls are immoral or Donald Trump arguing for more border security is exactly the conversation that President Trump wants to have. It animates his base, and he thinks that the majority of Americans, certainly in those electoral college swing states will agree with him on a border security package.

CABRERA: Well, here's the issue that I take with John. I think when it comes to more sort of moderate Republicans, right, Senator Cory Gardner out of Colorado, Senator Mick Sally, who just lost in the 2018 election representing Arizona, Susan Collins. These are toss-up districts.

These are states that are increasingly more and more purple, particularly during a presidential year. And these are senators that are going to have to cast a vote in terms of whether or not to rebuke the president's reckless power grab.

And I think that's the challenge that these sort of more moderate Republicans are going to have and it's going to give some potential momentum to Democrats with the upcoming Senate vote that undoubtedly will come up to challenge this presidential declaration.

CABRERA: Dave Jacobson, John Thomas, good to have both of you with us. Thanks so much.

THOMAS: Great to be here.

JACOBSON: Thanks so much. CABRERA: Quick programming note. Senator Amy Klobuchar holds a town

hall event in New Hampshire tomorrow. CNN's Don Lemon moderates. That's tomorrow night at 10:00 eastern only on CNN.

A new man is now overseeing the Special Counsel's Russia investigation. With William Barr as the new attorney general, we are now answering your questions about the ongoing Russia probe. "Cross- Exam" with Elie Honig is next, live in the "CNN Newsroom."

[17:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: A groundbreaking revelation in the Mueller investigation this week. For the first time, prosecutors for the Special Counsel say they have evidence of Trump associate, Roger Stone, directly communicating with WikiLeaks. We also learned this week Press Secretary Sarah Sanders sat down for an interview with Mueller's team late last year.

And as the Special Counsel's investigation continues full speed ahead, there's a new man overseeing it. Trump's new attorney general, William Barr, was sworn in on Thursday. Sources say tell CNN he is now gearing up to take the reigns of the Mueller probe, which includes deciding whether to make the Special Counsel's final report public.

And that brings me to our new weekly segment, "Cross-Exam" with Elie Honig. Elie is a former federal prosecutor and state prosecutor and CNN legal analyst. And he is now giving his take on legal news and answering your questions.

I know you have received hundreds of questions from people all around the world. So, this is successful already. We got a lot of news this week as we mentioned and we have seen a lot of information from Mueller's team and their investigation come out in dribs and drabs in court documents. When it all comes down to it, one viewer wants to know, could Trump and his attorney general lock the final report from being made public?

ELIE SONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So Ana, great response from the viewers this week. This is the number one issue on people's minds. Are we going to see the Mueller report? Now, earlier in the week, President Trump's former attorney, John Dowd, announced there will be no report. The regulations say no report.

That is misinformation. That is wrong. The regulations that Mueller is working under require him to file a report confidentially with the attorney general. Now, the attorney general has a lot of discretion. We have a new attorney general, William Barr. During his hearings, he said he would aim for maximum transparency but he sort of conspicuously stopped short of saying he would produce the whole thing.

If the A.G. holds on to any piece of that report, look for the House Democrats to go nuts trying to get it. Adam Schiff has said he will do everything possible to get it. I do think ultimately we will see that report, we the public, but not until after a pitched political and legal battle. CABRERA: Now, earlier this week we learned the Special Counsel is

recommending up to 24.5 years in prison for Trump's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort. Many have wondered whether Trump would pardon Manafort. One viewer asks, can a pardon for the purpose of obstructing an investigation be a crime?

HONIG: Yes, a lot of interest in pardon. So there are two legal views on this. One view is that of absolute presidential power, absolute executive power. And the idea there is the president is in charge of the executive branch, which includes DOJ, and so he has the right to start, limit, or stop any investigation.

Whitaker wrote about that, Barr wrote about that, Kavanaugh wrote about that. I disagree. I take the other view, which is that under our system, no person is above the law. If you look at the Richard Nixon case when articles of impeachment were drafted against him, they include obstruction of justice.

The example I use is what if the president tweeted out pardons for sale, $20,000 each, send checks to me. Sure, the president has the constitutional right to pardon but it doesn't mean it can't be used in a criminal way.

CABRERA: All right. Now, let's switch to the national emergency and a lot of questions involving the legality there. That came of course on Friday. He faces an onslaught of lawsuits. We are already seeing the attorney general in California threatening to start that imminently. Here's the question for you. Could Congress take action themselves and overturn it?

HONIG: Yes. So there's two ways that this could be overturned. First of all, Congress can vote by ultimately a two-thirds majority in both houses. Seems unlikely but some Republicans have expressed some reluctance. We just saw Senator Rubio sort of declining to endorse clearly that it's a national emergency.

The other way this can and will be attacked is through the courts. The lawsuits are going to start flying I'm sure tomorrow or Tuesday. If the courts get it, the big question is going to be do they treat it as what the courts call a political question? Meaning we the courts make legal judgments. This is for the president so we're not going to interfere.

If that's the way the courts go, Trump's going to win. But if the court says we're going to dig in and really scrutinize. Is this actually an emergency? What is the data? What's the president's own words, right? He said, I don't need to this. Then I think the emergency declaration is in a lot of legal trouble.

Ultimately, I think we are headed for the Supreme Court here. I think we're going to have a very close call.

[17:55:01] I think it's going to be 5-4 and I think Chief Justice Roberts is going to break that tie, one way or another.

CABRERA: We have about 30 seconds left. HONIG: Yes.

CABRERA: Give us your three things to watch for this week?

HONIG: Will the president pardon Paul Manafort? No. It's not in his interest anymore. Manafort can't hurt him anymore. He can't cooperate and the president will be hurt politically by doing that. The Stone link between WikiLeaks and the campaign, what's in those texts?

If it has to do with the hacked e-mails, we are going to have a direct connection. And last, we have to brag, we called it correctly that the judge last week, Judge Jackson did issue a gag order against Roger Stone. What's he going to do? He's going appeal.

Is he going to comply? I doubt it. We have seen Roger Stone. If he doesn't comply, if he violates that order, the judge will have the option to hold him in contempt which actually could land him in jail before his trial.

CABRERA: Good stuff. Elie Honig, thanks so much for all the good information. You want to learn more or ask your own questions check out "Cross-Exam" and Elie's column on CNN.com/opinion.

The White House today is facing a flurry of lawsuits over the president's emergency declaration. Democrats call the move unconstitutional, but do they have the power to stop it?

[18:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)