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Bernie Sanders Has Decided To Run For President Again; Sanders Issues Last Time He Ran Were Deemed Radical, This Time They Seem Mainstream Conversation; At Least Ten Democrats Running For President; N.C. Woman Has Testified That Sanders Illegally Collected And Falsified Absentee Ballets. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired February 19, 2019 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: He's been covering the Sanders campaign, that's been all of 17 minutes long at this point, and has the latest details. Ryan.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John and Alisyn, good morning. And of course, it probably doesn't come as that big of a surprise to many Americans that Bernie Sanders has decided to run for president again. But there was a pretty intense deliberation among Sanders and his closest aides over the last several weeks, as to when he should get in, and the way he would get it.

And he's doing it this morning with that interview on Vermont Public Radio, and an email blast to his vast network of supporters. That includes a video which outlines his rationale for running again after running in 2016. Take a listen to a part of that video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), VERMONT: Hi, I'm Bernie Sanders. I'm running for president. And I'm asking you today to be part of an unprecedented grassroots campaign of one million active volunteers in every state in our country.

Our campaign is not only about the defeating Donald Trump, the most dangerous president in modern American history. It is not only about winning the Democratic nomination and the general election. Our campaign is about transforming our country, and creating a government based on the principles of economic, social, racial, and environmental justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: And of course, the situation for Sanders in 2020 is going to be much different than it was in 2016. He surprised many people by waking up a - a progressive wing of the party that had not been as engaged as - as it had been in past presidential cycles.

And many of the issues that Sanders ran on four years ago were deemed radical, things like Medicare for all, a $15 minimum wage, and free college tuition. They've now become part of the mainstream conversation and almost the price of entry for many of these Democratic candidates that have already entered the field.

And of course, Sanders is also going to have to have a much better focus on certain aspects of the Democratic base that he did not do that well with in 2016, including female voters, and African American voters.

He's already made entries into those communities, specifically the African American community by visiting South Carolina around Martin Luther - Martin Luther King Day, and meeting with black leaders in that key early state.

And of course, one of the big issues the Sanders campaign is going to have to contend with are accusations of rampant sexual harassment in that 2016 campaign, Sanders has addressed that already. He's apologized. And he's met with some of those accusers.

But John and Alisyn, no doubt Bernie Sanders is a political force. He's one of the most recognizable politicians in America. He comes in now with no one surprised by his entry. It's going to be much different than it was four years ago.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: It sure is, Ryan. Thank you. Stay with us if you would because we have some questions for you. We also want to bring in M.J. Lee, CNN National Politics Reporter Harry Enten, CNN Politics Senior Writer and Analyst Nia-Malika Henderson and CNN Senior Political Reporter.

OK, Harry, let me start with you because there're - it's a crowded field already. We'll pull up the graphics. There are already at least 10 Democrats running. It's much different than just the short time ago that was 2016. You know, he occupied his own lane, it seemed, back then. Now it's an HOV lane.

(LAUGHTER)

So how does - how does that change?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER AND ANALYST: I mean, look, last time part of the reason he did so well was because he was the only real opponent to Hillary Clinton. And you see that in the polling right now. He starts off at 16 percent versus getting 42 - 43 percent of the national primary vote, more than that if you look at the left side of the party.

Last time around he was the main liberal challenger to Hillary Clinton. This time around, you know, last week I did the slide, you know, how far left is the Democratic field? He's still the furthest left, but there are people joining; Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, even Kirsten Gillibrand, whose record has obviously shifted towards the left in the last few years. And so, I think it will be more difficult for him to distinguish himself, but he starts off with a base and a lot of passionate supports. So we'll see what happens.

BERMAN: And Nia, he was runner-up last time. And that generally means something in both parties. People know him. There are a lot of very passionate supporters. So tell me where you think - what space does he occupy in this Democratic field?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: You know, I think he's mainly going to be just the voice for the left. It's really hard to imagine who the Bernie Sanders voter is at this point, beyond what we know the Bernie Sanders voter has been, and it's, sort of, the - the Bernie bro, right?

Somebody who's a bit younger, whiter, I think, than the overall Democratic primary process usually is in those voter groups. So it's hard to see what, sort of, lane, in terms of building some sort of multiracial coalition.

It is interesting though, he clearly is mindful of that. While he has - he has moved, I think, the party left on any number of issues, Medicare for all, and college tuition. He himself has been moved left on issues around race by the party itself, right?

He was uncomfortable, in many ways, talking about race in 2016. There was some, sort of, uncomfortable interactions he had with a Black Lives Matter protest. You see in that announcement video, he mentions racial equality, right?

[07:05:00]

And that's something that I think we're going to hear quite a bit from him. He calls the president a racist. Not every candidate has done that so far. And so, we'll see how that plays.

But I think it's going to be - it's still going to be difficult, I think, for him to expand what we know are that core group of supporters, which are primarily younger voters, as well as white voters, as well, and primarily male voters. But we'll see. He's going to be an interesting voice out there in this very - very crowded field.

CAMEROTA: M.J., he talked about the political revolution in his announcement. The political revolution that he started, he said a few years ago, and now it's time to finish it. But you've been out on the trail with people who have filled that - that void in the time that he hasn't been in the race. There are people who think that they're carrying the mantle of that political revolution.

M.J. LEE, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: Absolutely. And it was fascinating, you know, in that video Bernie Sanders referred to people joining this unprecedented grassroots movement. The reality is, this movement is no longer unprecedented because he did it back in 2016.

He's now running for a second time in 2020. And I think there is something important to be said about a difference in a candidate being a first-time runner, and trying again for a second time, and purely anecdotally. When you're out in Iowa, New Hampshire, the early states, talking to voters who are undecided right now, but coming out to see what the Democratic candidates have to say. You definitely see that there are Bernie - former Bernie supporters out there who want to know now, this time around, among the buffet of options that I have this time around, who is going to speak to me the most.

Not everyone is going to be loyally supportive of Bernie Sanders just because they voted for him last time. Because as everyone else has mentioned on this panel, he is not alone this time in challenging, sort of, the establishment-backed more moderate and centrist candidate.

He is going to be joined by so many others who, in large part, were inspired by the message that he had in 2016, and every, sort of, platform, and idea, and policy idea that he brought into the mainstream for the Democratic Party. So he is not alone this time and he is not a new face this time. And that is so important.

BERMAN: I thought - when I saw Elizabeth Warren announcing, last night and today, universal childcare through kindergarten, I thought maybe she was preemptively trying to get this policy out there to take some of the - the air out of the Bernie balloon that's rising today. But you tell me that she was going to do it no matter what today anyway.

LEE: Well, and I - and I think when she's releasing these policy positions, I don't know if they're necessarily pegged to other candidates getting in. But she is making sure that her policy positions are very clear very early on. And we're not seeing all of the other candidates, necessarily, doing this.

But the fact that, even in just this year - and we're only in the month of February, that she has this wealth plan - wealth - wealth tax plan that's already out. She has this universal childcare plan that's already out.

That means that Bernie Sanders is going to have some catch-up to do, in terms of making sure that he lays out fresh proposals that are clear to the people so that they know what they're voting for this time around.

CAMEROTA: Ryan, what about the scandal that cropped up on the Bernie Sanders campaign or the accusations that women who worked on that campaign did not feel that they always got a fair shake, and felt somewhat mistreated. Where is that now?

NOBLES: Well, listen Alisyn, there's no doubt that this is going to be a problem for Bernie Sanders. This is a cloud that hangs over his campaign for the way it was conducted back in 2016. But I talked to a lot of people that were big supporters of Bernie Sanders four years ago, people within the campaign who did acknowledge, and perhaps were even victims of sexual harassment during that campaign.

And very few of them actually blamed Bernie Sanders himself. They believe that he just did not have a full grasp, as to what was happening at every level of his campaign. And they really want to give him the opportunity to make things better this time around. And Sanders has already made steps in that direction.

He met with some of those accusers. He apologized for the way that they were treated during his campaign. And they've already implemented changes, in terms of the human resources infrastructure that existed in 2016 versus how it's going to be run this time around.

I think the big issue here for Sanders, though, is that you're not seeing a ton of criticism from his fellow competitors in this race. And that's because, within the confines of these massive campaigns infrastructures, there's concern that he's not the only person that, perhaps, had these problems within the campaign.

I think the big issue for him is how he deals with it and how it's handled going forward. But you know guys, in a field with so many candidates, and so many of them essentially espousing the same political beliefs, one little miscue like this could be something that could make a voter go in a different direction. And there's no doubt that that's something Bernie Sanders is going to have to deal with.

BERMAN: And they need to be careful about going after Bernie Sanders because many of them have adopted so many of his ideas over the last few years, and they have become Democratic mainstream, to a certain extent.

However, Harry, I think it was notable that we heard Senator Kamala Harris of California in New Hampshire yesterday, perhaps she knew that Bernie Sanders was about to get in the race, trying to create some space between herself and Bernie Sanders who calls himself a Democratic Socialist.

[07:10:00]

Listen to Senator Harris yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, (D) CALIFORNIA: Well the people of New Hampshire will tell me what's required to compete in New Hampshire but I will tell you I am not a Democratic Socialist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: It's very interesting when candidates start to tell you what they are not.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS SENIOR WRITER AND ANALYST: Yes, I think that this is an example of one that even if the field is further left than it was last time Bernie Sanders is still the further left in this particular field.

Two, it's an example that Kamala Harris is definitely thinking about the general election. Socialism is a tag placed better in a Democratic primary especially in Iowa and New Hampshire.

Perhaps less so down south where Democrats are more moderate conversation but it also is an example in my mind that she recognizes, hey there's still a center of the Democratic elector that's out there. I need to go after them as well and not just tie myself down to the left because if you do that it's still (ph) 50 percent of primary voters this time around aren't going to call themselves moderate conservative and a label like Democratic Socialist may not play so well with them.

CAMEROTA: Nia let's talk about the other news that happened last night if people are just waking up and that is that 16 Attorneys Generals in the states are suing President Trump for his emergency declaration.

They say that he is basically pilfering their funds that their voters counter on, on all sorts of different state projects to fund his border wall. They are doing it they say in expedited fashion.

They say that they want to do this quickly but of course this will play into the 2020 race also.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: It certainly will and Donald Trump certainly anticipating this and his team anticipating this. Of course these are Democratic AG's all across the country and we've seen this before, right.

If you think about his Muslim ban there were a lot of Democratic AG's that banned together to fight that. Of course the Supreme Court essentially ruled with Donald Trump on this.

Donald Trump predicting in his Press Conference in that sing songey voice that ultimately things would go his way in terms of the courts. We'll see.

This is certainly a fight that Donald Trump wants. He is somebody who wants to keep this issue about the wall front and center even though it's a fight that he essentially has lost in the sense that he did guarantee that this would be a wall that would be free and paid for by Mexico.

That doesn't look like its going to happen, but yes this is a fight I think that you're going to hear about from Donald Trump a lot.

This is idea that he wants to protect American's and it's Democrats who really want to stand in his way. We'll see what happens in the courts, probably a bit of a ways to go in terms of what actually happens with this.

BERMAN: We have the President singing his song in the Rose Garden on Friday. Let's play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They will sue us in the 9th Circuit even though it shouldn't be there and we will possibly get a bad ruling and then we'll get another bad ruling and then we'll end up in the Supreme Court and hopefully we'll get a far shake.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: It's more of a patter song, sort of a music man type thing than really a melodic thing.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: MJ, but what you do hear there is the President acknowledging he knew he was going to have a legal fight here. And politically speaking it seems to me he was OK with that, that he was setting up this legal fight for political purposes.

LEE: Right and just keep in mind that in the big picture this announcement in the Rose Garden represented a big defeat for him but he wanted to do everything possible to sort of showcase and show to the people that are tuning in this isn't a lose for me, I'm moving forward and this is all going according to plan and by the way a part of that plan is that I know there are going to be legal challenges, I always knew that this was going to come, no big deal.

CAMEROTA: I mean in fact that the reporting (ph) at least to the WASHINGTON POST was that Mitch McConnell knew that and how to spin it for the President that you didn't lose, Democrats lost.

And so was, by design so that he could as though this was a win.

LEE: That's right. And for Republican's on Capital Hill they really didn't have a lot of options.

They were stuck for a long time with the President who was not going to move on this issue no matter how they sort of presented this issue to him, no matter how they explained sort of the mechanics of how things work on Capital Hill.

They knew they were working with a President who was not going to give this up.

BERMAN: He may have rehearsed that song but he also said something in that news conference which creates a big legal issue and was brought up by the Attorneys General even in their legal briefing where the President basically said, "I don't have to do this".

Let's play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I could do the wall over a longer period of time. I didn't need to do this but I'd rather do it much faster.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: And you know those Attorneys General, Harry, they picked right up on that because they say it just goes to show there is no need for an emergency. Politically speaking the emergency doesn't poll particularly well.

ENTEN: No it doesn't, in fact the poll significantly worse than the wall. I think the best poll that's been on the emergency still has it trailing by an 18 point margin, those who oppose it versus those who support it.

And most polls on average say by 20 point margin or plus or more that more American's oppose this national emergency than support it.

[07:15:00]

So to me this is a political play for the here and now just to get the government rolling, but in terms of the American government and people liking this, no.

And I think that this does play well with his base for sure but at the end of the day you still have to win a general election and Donald Trump continues to play to a base that already loves him. He has to recognize that 2020 is about the general election.

If he continues stuff like this it'll make himself (ph) more difficult for him.

BERMAN: All right friends, thank you so much. Again the breaking news, Senator Bernie Sanders from Vermont he is in - in the Democratic race for President.

In the meantime a North Carolina woman has testified that he illegally collected and falsified absentee ballets in a 2018 Congressional election.

The 9th District race is the last undecided contest from the midterms with the seat still open.

Dianne Gallagher is live in Raleigh with the latest on this, Dianne.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John the executive director of the State Board of Elections opened up testimony saying that they had found evidence of a coordinated, unlawful, and substantially (ph) resource election - excuse me, absentee ballot scheme.

And the first witness was a worker who basically laid all of that out. Lisa Britt works for a political operative named McCrae Dowless. Now I kind of what to break this down here because she's also his former step-daughter, but Dowless was hired by a consulting firm that worked with the Republican candidate Mark Harris.

Lisa Britt testified that she was paid by Dowless at least $150 per 50 absentee ballots that she collected. That in itself is illegal in North Carolina but she continued on talking about filling in races that were left blank on unsealed ballots, signing as a witness on ballots that she didn't actually witness somebody voting in and even forging her own mothers signature on that - on some of those ballots there.

Now she said all of this came at the direction of Dowless. She said that Dowless went so far as to help them avoid red flags that he told them to sign in the same ink as the voter, how many ballots to mail from what Post Office and when, and how do you arrange the stamps on the envelopes. Now again, she said that this came at the direction of Dowless and

that Dowless told them not to tell anybody. He sent them a message right before she said saying not to testify. Dowless chose not to testify yesterday and John, she said the thing she wanted to point out more than anything though was that she believed that the candidate Mark Harris had no knowledge of this whatsoever.

John, we're hoping that sometime this week we will find out what is going to happen in this 9th district whether or not they're going to certify Harris as the winner or declare a new election.

BERMAN: It is still undecided. You know these accusations and evidences of malfeasance there, what will happen? Dianne Gallagher for us in Raleigh, thanks so much.

CAMEROTA: All right, meanwhile Stacey Abrams is one of the rising stars in the Democratic Party. So what does she think about Bernie Sanders big announcement this morning that he is jumping into the race?

We're going to ask Stacey Abrams about that as well as her own political future, next.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:20:00]

CAMEROTA: Breaking news, Senator Bernie Sanders is launching a second run for president. He's joining a crowded Democratic field. Moments ago he spoke with CBS about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Time to replace it.

SANDERS: ...but (ph) also launch what I think is unprecedented in modern American ...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: History, I'm going to guess. Joining us now is Stacey Abrams. She's the former Democratic gubernatorial nominee in Georgia, and currently the CEO and founder of Fair Fight Action. Senator Sanders endorsed her gubernatorial run. Miss Abrams, it's great to see you.

STACEY ABRAMS, FORMER DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR GEORGIA GOVERNOR: Good to see you as well. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: What do you think of Bernie Sanders getting in the race? Is 2020 the right time for Bernie Sanders?

ABRAMS: I appreciate the fact that Senator Sanders is joining a very diverse field of candidates. I appreciated his endorsement, as I did the endorsements from the other candidates who were running. And so, I say the more the merrier. We will have a robust debate about the direction of our party, and the future of our country. And so, I - I welcome him aboard.

CAMEROTA: But it seems as though the Democratic Party is displaying at the moment - if you look Amy Klobuchar's town hall meeting last night on CNN, you see pragmatism versus progressivism. And I'm wondering where you think the voters are on that spectrum

ABRAMS: I - I don't think it's a contrast. I think it is pragmatism and progressivism. Americans want progress. We want to see our children taken care of. We want to make certain that if you work a full day's job you get a full day's pay that can actually help you achieve economic security.

And I think the debates that we're going to have during this primary will illuminate the fact that we have a complicated country where everyone has to work together, but where everyone should have an opportunity to succeed. And what we see in the different positions and policies being proposed is that there are different ideas for how we get there. And what we want is a robust debate where every person running for office has to talk about how they will make our country stronger.

CAMEROTA: I think that that sounds like a great academic exercise, of course. But as you know, there are some progressive ideals that seem to be abridge too far for some voters, such as four years of free college, or getting rid of private insurers. And I'm just wondering which you think - which candidate, or which idea can beat - best beat Donald Trump, which of course is the Democrat's ultimate goal.

ABRAMS: Well, actually I don't think the goal is to beat Donald Trump. I think the goal is to win the White House. The goal is to put forward policy ideas that resonate for the majority of Americans. I ran a campaign in Georgia that was grounded in progressive values, but used a very pragmatic lens because I understand that there're different conditions that happen in the state of Georgia than in other parts of the country.

But the mission has to be the same. That's why I talk about debt free college, because for Georgia that was the issue that made the most sense. It's why I pushed for universal access to childcare, but through a very specific proposal that recognized the challenges facing the workers in our state.

And so, what I would ask every candidate to do is to think about what makes sense for the broadest cross section of Americans. And then we use the debates, and we use our congressional leadership to make sure we mold a policy that actually makes sense for the majority of Americans.

CAMEROTA: I want to ask you about your gubernatorial race, and just where you are now that the smoke has cleared somewhat because during the race.

[07:25:00]

As you know there were lots of accusations that your opponent who was Secretary of State had set up what you called "an obstacle course" for some voters to exercise their right to vote, including primarily African American voters.

And so at the end of the day do you think that the race was manipulated to the point of being stolen?

ABRAMS: I believe that we did not have a fair fight in Georgia and I'm excited to welcome Congressional leadership to Georgia today to talk about the issues that not only face Georgia but face our nation.

We see what's happening in North Carolina. We know about the accusations across the country that's why I'm proud to be the founder and chair of Fair Fight Georgia, demanding a fair fight in the end of voter suppression.

Voter fraud is largely a myth. It happens occasionally but not sufficiently to focus as much on it as we do, but voter suppression is real and we know that it is a wrong decision and a wrong direction for our country for people to doubt that their votes count.

And so for me the mission is to make sure that when those Presidential candidates come and apply their trade down here in Georgia and when the national campaigns come here in the general that Georgia is a fair place where every election is clear and clean and where every vote counts.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk a little bit about what's happening in North Carolina today. So this political operative for Mark Harris, the republican - basically there's a witness that says that she did falsify votes and forge signatures and get paid and all of that stuff.

What's going to happen in this race?

ABRAMS: My hope is that the State Elections Board will declare the Election null and void and we'll do a do over.

Unfortunately we face the situation not exactly similar in Georgia but where Republican Dan Gasaway is getting a third election because of problems with the election system that was managed by the now governor, then Secretary of State, Brian Kemp where they had to declare a do over because people were allowed to fight who shouldn't have and those who should've been allowed to vote where denied the right to vote.

The threat to Democracy in our country is real. Voter suppression is real and it's nonpartisan.

Although it does disproportionately affect African Americans in Georgia and people of color in poor communities across the country and we have to have national attention on this national emergency - a real national emergency, which is voter suppression in the United States.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about your future. You are thinking about running for Senate in 2020 against David Perdue.

What is the factor that will decide it for you?

ABRAMS: I have to be the right person for the job and this has to be the right job. I do not believe in running for Office simply because the position is open.

I spent a lot of time thinking about running for governor because I knew that the work I wanted to do for our state was the right work and I was the right person. I understand the opportunity to run for Senate is a critical one and I think 2021 is going to be key pivotal year as Democrats start to take more control in D.C.

And my job is to decide that I'm the right person to join the fray (ph) because we have some key issues that we need to discuss on a national level and I want to make sure I'm the right spokesperson and the right advocate to make the change we need to make.

CAMEROTA: And how will you decide that?

ABRAMS: I'm spending a lot of time really thinking about it. I pride myself on being very intentional about the decisions I make.

I do a lot of research. I think I've talked to almost every Senator on the Democratic side of the isle and I will keep thinking about it, but I will also think about what policies I would propose, how would I leverage that position, and am I the person that would best serve our country in that role.

And once I make that decision I'll tell everybody.

CAMEROTA: OK, well Stacey Abrams please keep us posted on your political decision making as well as all the Voting Rights Act that you're working on. Thanks so much for being here.

ABRAMS: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: John.

BERMAN: Right, so the man with over sight over the Russia investigation is leaving the Justice Department and soon.

So what does that tell us about Robert Mueller's plans? We'll discuss next.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:30:00]

END