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Three Women Tell CNN of Alleged Abuse at Hands of Priests; Sanders Slams Trump as He Announces Presidential Run; Karl Lagerfeld, Iconic Fashion Designer Dies. Aired 2-3p

Aired February 19, 2019 - 14:00   ET


[14:00:00] HANNAH VAUGHN JONES, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hannah Vaughn Jones in for Hala Gorani. Tonight, a look into

sexual abuse by priests in France. Police speak to three women who were betrayed by the men they placed their trust in. Also, tonight, Bernie is

back. He makes another run for the presidency. He joins a crowded Democratic Presidential field. And saying good-bye to an icon, the fashion

world is in mourning after the death of Karl Lagerfeld. We start the program with the harrowing story of abuse suffered at the hands of Catholic

priests in France. Just this month, the Pope admitted for the first time that nuns had been sexually abused by bishops and priests for years. Now

three women, who allege abuse, have spoken exclusively to CNN about how they were betrayed by those with power over them. Their suffering had been

silenced by the church and their stories had gone untold until now. Melissa Bell has the story.


LUCIE, ALLEGED VICTIM OF A PRIEST: And it was like automatic, you know? He wanted to go to the end to ejaculation and I was just like an object for

him. And I had the feeling he did this a lot of time.

MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Lucie, not her real name, said she was abused by a priest. So, do they. None of their alleged abusers have

ever faced trial. This is the story of the broken women of Saint John. The Order of The Contemplative Sisters of Saint John was founded here in

Saint-Jodard by Father Marie Dominique Philippe, who preached for the physical expression of affection.

It was long after his death that the order recognized he was guilty of sexual abuse. For years there were rumors about other priests and other

victims within the order. Lucie was 18 years old and preparing to become an oblate, a layperson consecrated in the church when she said the abuse


LUCIE: You can be 18 or 16 or 20. When you have not experienced sexuality and you have suddenly in front of you the sex of men, it's just a shock.

BELL: It took Lucie 15 years to be able to talk about it. She then says the church wouldn't listen. In the criminal courts, the statute of

limitations had expired. The Vatican now says it is investigating allegations made by several women against Lucie's alleged abuser. He was

removed from the community ten years ago, but even now it is the strength of her faith that makes it so hard to take in.

LUCIE: He's a priest. He's a father. He's near god. He's like god. He's -- the Christ is living in him. He cannot do something like this. I

think the worst was to talk. It broke me. It broke my body, in fact. I prefer to have been shot by a gun or if I have just a leg handicap, it's

OK, I can live my life. But here it's a murder inside of your heart and of your soul because it's about faith also. So, it's like something is dead

in me.

BELL: She was a novice when she was abused. The Order of Saint John says her alleged abuser is now being investigated by the Vatican. He declined

our request for comment. She only began to put a word on what had happened to her two years ago, and by then, it was too late to take to the criminal


LIENE MOREAU, ABUSE VICTIM (through translator): The psychological abuse was worse than the sexual abuse. It's my inner life. He took my dignity,

my femininity, all that I was.

BELL: She said the abuse went on for 15 years. In the letters she shows us, the father suggests discretion, adding that his crazy love for her

comes from Jesus. CNN reached out to the Vatican. Its spokesman wouldn't comment on any specific allegations but did confirm that several clerics

belonging to the congregation of Saint John were being investigated.

This is a former nun who heads a victim's organization.

LAURENCE POUJADE, SENTINELLE VICTIMS GROUP (through translator): We are talking about victims who don't speak out. But what about those who went

straight to psychiatric hospitals? What about those who mutilated themselves? I know of one case her parents called me to tell me that she

had cut out her own tongue. What can you say? What happened for a victim to do that?

BELL: Not all of the abuse took place here, but the order says that over the course of the last 45 years, five priests have been found guilty of

sexual abuse in civil courts with three under investigation. Furthermore, two priests have been found guilty of abuse in church courts. French

authorities wouldn't comment, but the Order of Saint John gave CNN a statement saying that it accepted that errors had been made in the past and

the handling of cases of sexual abuse because of a lack of awareness of the suffering cost to the women. We did just try and ring the bell here at the

Order of St. John but no one was speaking to us on camera.

[14:05:00] What matters, though, now, is that the order has recognized that there are victims other than those of the founder. Now, that

acknowledgment came just after Pope Francis had lifted the lid on what he called sexual slavery within the ORDER OF SAINT JOHN. So, what did the

Pope's words mean for the victims?

MOREAU: Well, it was like a bomb. It's a new beginning.

BELL: The Pontiff's recognition may come late, but it does put words on a trauma that for so many had, until now, been unspeakable.


JONES: Melissa Bell joins me now from Paris. Melissa, we heard their extremely powerful testimony from three women whose pain will surely

resonate with countless others.

BELL: That's right. And I think this is the point about this story, Hannah. This was really a story, as you said at the beginning, broken by

the Pope himself. It was in his answer to a journalist on the papal plane coming back from Abu Dhabi that he lifted the lid on something that really

hadn't been explored before, that question of sexual slavery within the Order Of Saint John, but also more broadly, a problem for the Catholic

Church that hadn't really been looked at so far, given all the focus on pedophilia and that is the alleged abuse of nuns or women close to the

orders by men, as you say, who were meant to be their spiritual fathers, their spiritual guardians, men in whom they had absolute trust. I think

one of the most striking things that we found investigating this to try and get to the bottom of what went on, this wall of silence of the victims.

Not because they are victims of sexual abuse. We know how difficult it can be for them to speak out, but because they have been betrayed on a much

more profound level. It is a breach of their trust. It is a breach of their faith. For many of them, their love of the church is precisely what

keeps them from speaking out. So, I think that now that this has been spoken to, now that this has been addressed, now that some of these women

are very bravely finally willing to tell their story on camera, and all of them said they wanted to do it without being anonymous. They wanted to

make their voices heard because they felt the Pope had allowed them to speak out. I think this is something that you're going to hear a lot more

of in the coming days and weeks as more women find the courage to speak out about what happened to them.

JONES: Yes, and Melissa, we know that the Vatican is going to be hosting the summit in the next couple of days specifically looking at the sex abuse

and the scandal engulfing the church at the moment. Is it thought that now on the basis of your reporting that these three women, and also the Order

of Saint John, will feature prominently in that summit?

BELL: Well, much of the focus is expected to be on what the focus has been for the last few years, and that is pedophilia. But I think the fact that

the Pope spoke so openly about this and the fact that this lid has now been opened will mean that we're likely to hear more about it. It does mean

that the church hierarchy is going to have to look into it. You only need look at what the Order of Saint John has asked. They've been very

communicative. Whenever we reached out over the last couple of weeks to get their comment, to get their reaction, to check facts, Hannah, they

said, look, we understand we made mistakes about this in the past in our handling of sex abuse. We didn't understand the extent of the suffering of

the women. We now do, and we intend to ensure that this problem is addressed and that these women are heard and that the allegations are

properly investigated and the priests who are found to have been guilty are in some way, even if it is within the church -- because so often the

statute of limitations has run out for the criminal courts -- something is done at church level to ensure the priests are no longer in a position to

pose a threat, Hannah.

JONES: All right, Melissa Bell live for us in Paris with that exclusive and very, very important reporting. We appreciate it, Melissa. Thank you.

Now, as accounts of clerical sex abuse continue to surface, the Catholic church has now confirmed that there are secret guidelines for priests who

father children. That is, of course, despite their vows of celibacy. The disclosure comes just days before that Vatican Summit on the sex abuse

scandal we were just referring to with Melissa. Our Vatican correspondent Delia Gallagher joins us now live from Rome. Good to see you. These

secret guidelines have been in place for some time. Who do they protect? Do they protect the priests or do they protect the children of priests?

[14:10:03] DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hannah, the Vatican is not releasing the document, but I did have an opportunity to

speak to the Vatican spokesman earlier in the day who emphasized that the document is about the protection of the child. Let me read to you a little

bit of what he told me in a statement. He said, I can confirm that guidelines exist. The protection of the child. The protection of the

child. Let me read to you a little bit of what he told me in a statement. He said, I can confirm that guidelines exist. It is a document for

internal use which synthesizes the procedure developed throughout the years at the congregation and is not intended for publication. He went on to

tell me, Hannah, that the procedure is that the priest requests to be removed from the priesthood and that he takes moral and financial

responsibility and is devoted to the child. And as they say, it is about the protection of the child. We don't have statistics, Hannah, on how many

priests have fathered children around the world. It's something the Vatican said yesterday they are working on statistics in general about sex

abuse throughout the world. But it's interesting to note that Pope Francis, back in 2010, even before he became Pope, said he thought a priest

who fathered a child should be removed from ministry. Hannah?

JONES: Pope Francis just recently, of course, has brought to light the fact that he's aware that there has been abuse by Catholic clergy men of

nuns within the Catholic religious order as well. Given that, then, what about any potential secret guidelines or advice for the mothers of children

fathered by priests?

GALLAGHER: Well, let me tell you something following on Melissa' story there. The interesting back story of that is that the Pope came out

admitting that there was sex abuse of nuns by priests and bishops because his own magazine, the Vatican magazine, wrote about it in an article. A

woman editor at that magazine brought that up two weeks ago, and that's why the Pope was asked that question on the airplane returning from the United

Arab Emirates about nuns being abused. And just today, Hannah, we have an important statement from the leadership of nuns and priests throughout the

world apologizing for what they call errors in judgment and covering up of the abuses. What we are seeing in advance of this summit is an awareness

and an openness on the part of the Vatican and the Catholic leadership of nuns and priests around the world to at least admit the problem, to promise

to do better. Of course, we'll have to see after the summit if there is follow-up on those words. Hannah?

JONES: Yes, they have an awful lot to tackle in this summit coming up in the next couple of days. Delia, thank you very much for your reporting on

this. We'll stay on the story if we get anything more in particular on that summit from the Vatican.

Now we turn to other news and U.S. politician and announcement from Senator Bernie Sanders. He is promising to finish what he started back in 2016,

asking voters to help him complete the revolution. Sanders made it official today he is running for President once more. He fired up many

Americans, especially young voters when he challenged Hillary Clinton for the Democratic party and nomination last time round. He lost that fight,

of course, but succeeded in pushing the party towards more progressive ideals. Now in a new campaign video, he says the future of America is at

stake in 2020.


BERNIE SANDERS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know as well as I do that we are living in a pivotal and dangerous moment in American history. We are

running against a President who is a pathological liar, a fraud, a racist, a sexist, a xenophobe and someone undermining American democracy as he

leads us in an authoritarian direction.


JONES: Last time around, many Americans didn't even know who Bernie Sanders was when he announced his Presidential campaign. This race is far

different, though. But he is also up against a very crowded field of contenders. Let's bring in our Washington correspondent Ryan Nobles for

more on this. Ryan, what does Bernie Sanders have in 2020 that he didn't have back in 2016?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: I think that's the big question, Hannah. Many of those strengths that Bernie Sanders had in 2016

have really become liabilities in 2020. He was a fresh face, even though he was in his 70s when he ran the last time around. Now he's an

established candidate. What he did that was so incredible in many respects was he really moved the entire Democratic party further to the left,

pushing issues like Medicare For All, a $15 minimum wage and free college tuition.

[14:15:00] These were ideas that four years ago people thought were crazy, and now they have become the price of entry for many of these Democratic

candidates. So now you have a very big field of Democratic candidates who are espousing many of the same things that Bernie Sanders has already

espoused. In addition to the fact that many of them are younger, many of them are more ethnically diverse, many of them are women. These are all

important attributes for a Democratic field that in many ways is looking for diversity. So that makes it difficult to see a path here for Bernie


That being said, though, Hannah, he's certainly going to come in as a front runner. He is polling in the top five in almost every survey taken. And

he certainly is going to have enough money. Is already raised more than $1 million since his announcement this morning.

JONES: Any word yet from Donald Trump on his potential opponent come next year?

NOBLES: As a matter of fact, the Trump campaign has responded to Sanders' entry into the race. This is unique. They don't do this every time a

Democrat announces that they're getting into the field. They did it when Elizabeth Warren got in, for example. Basically, the statement they put

out is Bernie Sanders has already won. He's already moved the Democratic party to the far left and they brought up that word socialism, which, of

course, Bernie Sanders describes himself as a Democratic socialist. This is something that the Republicans and the White House have really been

pushing hard on this idea that you can replace Democratic politics in the United States with socialism, and there would be no difference. And they

even point to extreme examples of that, like the situation in Venezuela as an example of what could happen if Democrats take control. Of course,

that's not exactly the way Democrats would portray themselves, but these are the talking points you can expect to hear from Republicans,

particularly when you have someone like Bernie Sanders in the race. And depending on the amount of support he ends up garnering from Democratic


JONES: All right. Ryan Nobles, thanks very much. So, let's talk more, then, about Sanders campaign with an experienced political veteran, David

Gergen joins me now. Good to see you as always. Bernie Sanders is 77 years old. If he is successful in his bid for the presidency, he would be

sitting in the oval office as an octogenarian. Is that what America needs?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't think that's what America is looking for especially in the Democratic party which has now

been excited by younger candidates, by women getting in in great numbers. The Democratic party sees many more possibilities, but they do look to

Bernie Sanders with fondness because, you know, he did support and help create some of the ideas like Medicare For All as we just heard and doing

things for free college that have become staples for many Democratic candidates, or people to the left, well to the left. He's a father of a

lot of this. So, there is a fondness for him. I would have to say that I think the newness is what's attracting people to other candidates like

Kamala Harris and Amy Klobuchar. At the moment, Hannah, I think that most political analysts would agree it's probably a top three that have emerged

who are now in the race and one is Elizabeth Warren, one is Bernie Sanders, and the other is this newcomer from California, Kamala Harris. But we

haven't heard from Joe Biden yet.

JONES: Uh-huh.

GERGEN: The way our primary system is structured, his name recognition is going to go a long way toward helping him in a very crowded field. The

person who has, you know, 30 percent support can do very, very well.

JONES: Yes, because when you look, David, at the field of contenders, he's going to be up against, Kamala Harris as you said and Elizabeth Warren, I'm

wondering nationwide outside of Bernie Sanders' base appeal, how does he resonate with the youth vote, with the African-American vote, the Hispanic

vote? How does that go down?

GERGEN: He resonates well with the youth just because they look at him as an uncle type or grandpa figure. And they just like him. But I don't

think he resonates as well anywhere near as well with African Americans and frankly doesn't resonate that well with women. The Trump people would want

him to be the candidate. He'd love to run against Bernie Sanders. Bernie, for all the enthusiasm of the Democratic camp, is not toxic as Elizabeth

Warren is, with, say, the business community. But he's certainly seen by middle America as way too far to the left. Nobody has priced out these

programs he's supporting now, but they would be extremely expensive and that will come up in this campaign big time.

[14:20:04] JONES: Some people accuse Bernie Sanders last time around of having watered down the Democratic vote, almost being responsible for

Hillary Clinton losing ultimately to Donald Trump. Could he be the villain once more?

GERGEN: Well, first of all, I didn't think it was fair to label him the villain. It was a hard-fought race with Hillary Clinton. They went head

to head. She won. He was -- you put that behind you, that's just politics. How -- I don't think he'll be seen as a spoiler this time. I

think rather what you're going to see is one or two or three candidates pull ahead after these early primaries. It's going to be hard for him to

make that cut, I think. One or two or three candidates pull ahead after these early primaries. It's going to be hard for him to make that cut, I

think. There are a lot of people who are crowding into his lane and may reduce the percentage of vote. He will be so much better off if this race

started with Sanders and with Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobuchar and Joe Biden. He'd have a much better chance of that. When you have 15 people up

there, you know, it's going to diminish his popular numbers.

JONES: His brand of politics is, of course, falls under socialism which is the other end of the political spectrum from what Trumpism is still about.

GERGEN: Right.

JONES: In some corners of America, is socialism a dirty word?

GERGEN: Yes. It's important to remember that America went a very different way through the 20th century from western Europe and from Canada,

say. There were strong socialist parties that developed across western Europe and in Canada. The United States has never had a strong socialist

candidate. We've had third-party candidates who have tried, but they haven't come anywhere close. And socialism is seen as a dirty word. It

was associated with communism and people almost use them interchangeably for a long time. And the fear of socialism or the Abhorrence of socialism

is as in the south or the rocky mountain states. The Republicans see an opportunity in Bernie Sanders calling himself a socialist. And in others

in the Democratic party calling them Democratic socialists, they see that as a real opening and frankly they're going to run very, very hard at it in

the next few weeks and see if it catches on. The programs this young woman has caught fire in the United States, many especially among millennials,

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, she has put forward a progressive program that is attracting Bernie Sanders. She's going to vote for it called the Green New

Deal, going back to F.D.R., but sort of an environmental new deal.

JONES: But she's not running, right?

GERGEN: She's not running, but every candidate is being asked, do you support the green new deal or not? The Republicans are trying to force a

vote in the Senate among Democrats to see if they'll take a stand because they want to use it as a bludgeon against them in the general election.

Democratic socialism, it may be popular in parts of the country like California, especially the bay area, for example. And here in new England

it's got a lot of adherence. If you look at the country as a whole, frankly the Republicans think and believe and hope that if they use it

against the Democrats, it will really soften the impact and soften the anti-Trump vote and make it a much more winnable election.

JONES: OK, all right. The Democratic field is certainly starting to look very busy indeed. We will speak to you lots more about it over the course

of the next year or so.

GERGEN: I look forward.

JONES: David, thanks so much.

Still to come tonight on the program, a look back at the life of the creative genius as the fashion world mourns the life of Karl Lagerfeld.

Honda will close a factory. Is Brexit the blame? We'll bring you the details.


JONES: Welcome back. The fashion world is in shock and mourning today with word that designer Karl Lagerfeld is dead. A giant in the fashion

industry, Lagerfeld was creative director for three of the best-known Houses in the world. Chanel, Fendi and his own Lagerfeld label. He was 85

years old. CNN's Jim Bittermann has more on Karl Lagerfeld's remarkable life.


JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR EUROPEAN CORRESPONDENT: Amongst the kings of couture, monochrome suit, dark glasses and ponytail, he was a photographer

and publisher synonymous with Chanel best-known for reviving the French brand after becoming chief designer in 1983. He also produced collections

for Fendi and his own label. Recognizable for his wit and persona.

KARL LAGERFELD, FASHION DESIGN ICON: Never make an ugly dress because somebody could buy it.

BITTERMANN: His preferred material may come as a surprise.

LAGERFELD: It all starts with paper. I sketch, I design, it becomes a dress, I print it on paper again if you see it like this. My favorite

material in life is paper, paper, paper.

BITTERMANN: The German designer's family built its fortune importing condensed milk. But Lagerfeld moved from their home in Hamburg to begin

his fashion career in Paris under Pierre. Winning his first design contest in 1954, alongside another aspiring designer and future fashion competitor,

Yves Saint Laurent. He worked with Chloe before being hired as consultant director responsible for modernizing the design house's fur lines. His

decision to run Chanel founded by Gabriel Coco Chanel turned him into one of the celebrated fashion designers of the 19th century.

LAGERFELD: You can teach the craft. But it has to be the eye, the wish, the desire. And to think also that fashion is important without being too

serious about it.

BITTERMANN: Revered in the esoteric high fashion, he combined artistic instinct. Not afraid to break with tradition during his later years, he

worked with High Street brand H & M in 2004 in a move that raised eyebrows among the fashion elite. Though it was quickly copied bring others. He

then became an unlikely champion of models' rights, arguing against the retouching of photographs. Rumors swirled about his health after his

absence from the Chanel show in January this year due to what the company described as fatigue. Reflecting on the industry he did so much to craft,

he delivered a timeless message.

LAGERFELD: There are problems in the world. Who may be more important? This is not a problem, but it's an industry. You know, fashion has to go

with time. If fashion doesn't go with time, fashion would be lost.


JONES: Remembering Karl Lagerfeld and we will be hearing much more on the legacy and the life of the man later on in the program. I'll be speaking

to the vogue international editor later on.

Also coming up before then, yet another bitter blow for the UK. K-car industry as Honda announce it is closing its factory, but what's behind

that decision? We're going to have all those details coming up next.


[14:30:31] HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: A devastating decision, that's how the U.K. government has described the move by a

Japanese carmaker Honda to close its U.K. factory in just two years' time.

The plant in Swindon, England currently employs three and a half thousand people and has made more than three million cars since it first opened back

in 1995.

Now, Honda says it's taken the decision due to, quote, "unprecedented changes to the industry." But many people fear it's down to Brexit,

including the U.K. business secretary Greg Clark who's already expressed his bitter disappointment at the decision.


GREG CLARK, U.K. SECRETARY OF STATE FOR BUSINESS, ENERGY AND INDUSTRIAL STRATEGY: Now, I'm not going to pretend to an audience of manufacturers

that this is anything other than a very bitter blow. And I think the thoughts of everyone in this room, with the dedicated workforce and the

suppliers of what has been a phenomenally successful business and has done so much for U.K. manufacturing during its time here.


JONES: So three and a half thousand people are set to lose their jobs in Swindon. And what could be a huge, huge blow to the local economy, CNN's

Anna Stewart spoke to some of those people affected and Anna reports now from Swindon.


ANNA STEWART, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They came into work only to be told to head back home. And in two years, they'll be

leaving for good. Honda management confirmed the news they're closing the doors here, their only U.K. factory.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I found out from work yesterday, so do you know your husband doesn't have a job in two years' time.

STEWART: Honda says it's leaving the U.K. due to unprecedented change in the industry. It wants to push ahead with making electric vehicles and

it'll do so from plants in Japan, China and North America.

CLARK: It's a blow to the whole British economy.

STEWART: The decision has nothing to do with Brexit, according to the company. But locals here in Swindon find that hard to believe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm disgusted the way they've handled everything, the government, the parliament. It's just disgusting. It should have been

sorted weeks, months ago. It's terrible.

STEWART: The plant is one of the biggest employers in the region, and most found out about its closing on the news.

You found out not from your employer?


STEWART: Frederick Selly (ph) works at the quality control end of Honda's production line.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a lot of people that work for Honda lives in Swindon. And with Honda gone --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, how are people going to pay their mortgages?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How people going to pay their mortgages? I mean, it's just -- it's a disaster really.

STEWART: It's two years until the factory will close. Finding another job in this U.K. auto sector could be difficult.

STEWART (on-camera): Jaguar and Land Rover have said they're cutting 4,500 jobs worldwide, having already cut 1500 last year.

Ford have said their operations in the U.K. where they employed 13,000 workers are at risk from a hard or no-deal Brexit.

And then there's Nissan who said they had no longer going to make new model of car, the X-Trail at their British plant. And things here could get

worse before they get better.

STEWART (on-camera): A new E.U.-Japan free trade agreement has reduced the need to make cars within the block. All this has ripple effects beyond the

big car makers. Thousands of people work in companies and the automotive supply chains up and down the country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's going to be the end of Swindon. It's going to be the end of Swindon.

STEWART: Anna Stewart, CNN, Swindon.


JONES: Thanks, Anna.

[14:35:00] Well, Honda, the carmaker insists it's not closing the plant because of Brexit, but are people actually buying that argument? Let's

discuss it all with Richard Quest. Richard joins us now live from New York. Good to see you.

So, Richard, should we blame Brexit? Are all those remainers out there justified in saying, we told you so?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: It's far more complex than that. The simplistic answer for them is to hang it on Brexit, but no car company

decides the fate of a multi-billion dollar plant on the basis of one thing or the other.

And anyway, the Japanese have been warning for some time about their worry because those plants in Britain were only built because of Britain -- the

U.K. because the U.K. had access to the single market.

However, Japan now has a free trade agreement, a preferential treatment with the E.U. It no longer needs to build its cars in the E.U. It can

take advantage of existing production capacity in Japan and export.

I'm going into a bit of detail here, Hannah, because it proves the point that, yes, Brexit undoubtedly played a part in this, but whether it was the

-- whether it was the spark or, indeed, it was just the reaction, we will never know.

JONES: And so I guess the point being that it's not just the U.K. that's being affected by these changes in the car industry. It's Europe wide or


QUEST: Oh, yes, Europe wide will certainly be affected by the japan/E.U. trade agreement. And secondly, of course, we're waiting to see what the

U.S. administration does in terms of tariffs on vehicles, both for China and for the E.U. So that is a bigger note.

The New York Times this morning had an editorial on Brexit which is fairly scathing reading for those involved. And it points out the mess that


I suppose if one had to question Honda's decision, if it is for grander reasons than Brexit, why do it five weeks before the most crucial date?

Why not just wait until after the March 29th, and then one way or the other, you can explain it away? The timing by Honda is terrible.

JONES: Yes. And I guess that's the argument, at least, of the U.K. business secretary as well. We heard from him earlier. He very much is

sort of blaming the atmosphere of Brexit on this decision by Honda.

And, Richard, can you give us any clues as to how the U.K. is doing with its other trade deals outside of the auto industry come March 29th and


QUEST: Yes, some small ones. And Switzerland, the Faroe Islands, a couple in Asia, they have failed with Japan so far. The U.S. has a mutual

agreement in place, but nothing more than that. And Australia and New Zealand both also have mutual agreements in place. And there's no big

winner so far, or big catch.

However, everybody is waiting to see what happens. Look, if the U.K. goes into the transitional agreement or transitional period after March the

29th, then everything is plain sailing for two years. It's a two-year grace period and then proper deals can be put in place. If they crash out

on the 29th, then those deals will have to be sought very fast indeed.

JONES: Yes. And we all know that it often takes longer than two years as well to come up with any kind of deal, not least Brexit in and of itself.

Richard quest, thank you very much indeed. I know you have "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" coming up at the top of the next hour. So, viewers, stay tuned

for that. Thank you, sir.

Now, the verbal jabs just keep on coming between Venezuelan president, Nicolas Maduro, and the U.S. President, Donald Trump. The two leaders

sparred in back to back addresses on Monday, speaking from Florida. Mr. Trump appeals directly to Venezuela's military and warned them against

supporting Mr. Maduro.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you choose this path, you will find no safe harbor, no easy exit and no way out. You will lose


We seek a peaceful transition of power, but all options are open.

Maduro is not a Venezuelan patriot. He is a Cuban puppet. That's what he is.


JONES: Well, Venezuela's president and now the military have both responded with their own criticisms of Mr. Trump. Stefano Pozzebon joins

us now from the Venezuela capital of Caracas. Stefano, good to see you. So strong rhetoric coming from both presidents at the moment. Is the

response from Mr. Maduro so critical because there is so much concern about what Donald Trump is threatening?

[14:40:59] STEFANO POZZEBON, JOURNALIST: Yes, exactly, Hannah. And, frankly, we didn't have to wait too long to see a response from Nicolas

Maduro. He was on state television yesterday less than two hours after Donald Trump had his speech in Florida.

Maduro was attending an event to launch a new scientific investment company here in Venezuela. But I spoke at length for more than an hour and a half,

and had some very strong words for the U.S. president. Here's what Nicolas Maduro said.


NICOLAS MADURO, PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA (through translator): Donald Trump must take care of the internal affairs in his country instead of trying to

solve the internal affairs of Venezuela. He has a lot of problems and pretty serious ones within his country. That's why he tries to deflect the

attention from his country, getting into Venezuela and fabricating a crisis, trying to fabricate a crisis, looking to provoke and militarily

threatening us.


POZZEBON: Fabricating a crisis. Essentially what Nicolas Maduro is saying is that the White House is trying to use Venezuela as -- in order to divert

attention from internal problems that the White House is facing in the U.S.

But that leads us to the key date of February 23, Hannah, because on that date is when the opposition has said time and time again that they will

bring the humanitarian aid inside Venezuela from several locations around the Venezuelan border with its neighboring country.

But most crucially from the city of Cucuta, in Colombia. That is where the date that the -- that the opposition will play their cards and try to bring

the aid in. Notwithstanding the fact that Nicolas Maduro is banning the island, blocking the bridges that are linking Venezuela with Colombia.

So that is the main reason, more serious and perhaps confrontation between those who are trying to bring the humanitarian aid into Venezuela and those

who have been ordered the army to block it.

So main question is, will the army stand by the orders by Maduro or will they recognize the authority of the opposition leader Juan Guaido? And how

will the situation escalate even further around the critical event, Hannah?

JONES: And, Stefano, of course while this verbal sparring continues between Trump and Maduro, and this aid doesn't get to those people who so

desperately needed, ordinary Venezuelans are struggling just with everyday life.

POZZEBON: Yes, exactly. Frankly, Mr. Maduro said that the U.S. is fabricating a crisis here. But it's very hard to deny the dangerous

situation, the dramatic situation that most of the Venezuelan population is facing because of the five years of economic crisis, Hannah. We say that

time and time again.

But let's reiterate one more time that prices here are doubled every 26 days. The average minimum wage for a Venezuelan worker is less than $6 a

month. That's enough to cover you from maybe few kilograms of rice and little else.

And we're talking about a country of 30 million people who have seen an exodus of at least four million, according to figures by the United Nations

immigration agency, saying that they have left the country because of the economic crisis.

And Mr. Maduro himself in the same speech where he accused Donald Trump of fabricating a crisis around Venezuela, the president of Venezuela himself

announced that he will purchase 300 tons of medical supplies from a key ally in Russia, from Vladimir Putin.

So from one side, he's saying that the crisis is fabricated, but from the other one he's saying that he's calling his friends to rally and coming to

support with medical supply.

So it's really hard to deny the facts that the Venezuelan population is suffering here. And no matter who will eventually bring the humanitarian

aid here, that aid is mostly needed, Hannah.

JONES: Stefano Pozzebon live for us in Caracas, thank you.

And now, there is outrage and anger in France and beyond after 80 Jewish graves were desecrated at a cemetery in a suburb of Strasbourg. Nazi

symbols were painted on the graves.

French president Emmanuel Macron condemned the vandalism and visited the cemetery to inspect the damage himself. Thousands are protesting anti-

Semitism tonight in marches across France. These demonstrations have been planned for several days, but are garnering more attention in light of the

cemetery vandalism.

OK. I believe we have the latest now from the U.S. president. He's been at a signing ceremony. Let's listen to what he's been saying.


[14:45:58] TRUMP: But the date is not a magical date. A lot of things can happen. The real question will be, will we raise the tariffs because they

automatically kick in to 25 percent as of $200 billion worth of goods that they send. So I know that China would like not for that to happen, so I

think they're trying to move fast so that doesn't happen.

But let's see what happens. I can only say that the talks with China on trade have gone very, very well. In the meantime, our economy is very

strong. We're doing well. I don't know if you noticed, but deficits seem to be coming down. And last month, it was reported and everybody was

surprised, but I wasn't surprised. We're taking in a lot of money coming into our treasury from tariffs, from various things, including the steel

dumping and our steel companies are doing really well, aluminum companies also.

So we're very happy about that. I think that it's -- they'll be coming very shortly. They're going to have detailed discussions on subjects that

have never really been discussed by people that sat in this chair. They should have been, very important subjects, and I think we're doing very

well. OK.



TRUMP: I've seen it, I've watched, I've gotten a lot of reports on it. We'll have a comment at the appropriate time. It would be wonderful if

they got along. It seems like that was a horrible situation, but we're getting reports. We'll have a statement to put out, OK? Thank you very


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, did you did you ask Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker to change the leadership of the investigation into

your former personal attorney, Michael Cohen?

TRUMP: No, not at all. I don't know who gave you that. That's more fake news. A lot of -- there's a lot of fake -- there's a lot of fake news out

there. No, I didn't.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is the current status of your relationship with Mr. Whitaker?

TRUMP: Very good. I had a lot of respect to Mr. Whitaker. I think he's done a great job. He's a very, very straight shooter. I watched him

during the hearing. Some of it. I thought he was exceptional. He's a very fine man. And he should be given a lot of thanks by our nation. OK.

Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your reaction to the lawsuit yesterday filed by the states against your executive --

TRUMP: Well, I think I called it exactly, right? Including the fact that they would put them into the Ninth circuit. That's where they put them in.

And I think we'll do very well. We have absolute right to do that. I have an absolute right to call national security. We need strong borders. We

have to stop drugs and crime and criminals and human trafficking, and we have to stop all of those things that a strong wall will stop. I could

call it a barrier, but I think I don't have to do that so much anymore. We'll call it whatever we want.

But the point is that we have to have a stoppage. Billions and billions of dollars of illicit things are pouring through our border, and we talk about

points of entry. One of the things we do have is a lot of money now for points of entry because everything was given -- the money was given so much

that you almost don't know what to do with it by Congress.

But when it came to the wall, they wanted to hold back because it was politics. That's all it is. In fact, I hear the Democrats want to take

down all walls along the southern border. And if they do that, you're going to have a very different country, but they're not going to do that.

They wouldn't--

First of all, they won't do it because they know it's wrong. They know walls are necessary, maybe more than we do, but they're playing a political

game and their new game is let's take down all walls. I saw where Beto wanted to take down walls. I said -- they asked me, "What do you think?"

I said, "Well, I think that's probably the end of his political career."

We're doing very well in the wall. We're building a lot of wall right now. You know that. In the valley, we're doing a tremendous work in a very

important area. We have a lot more under negotiation right now. We're working with the army core of engineers. They're fantastic. And a lot of

great things are happening.

I think in the end, we're going to be very successful with the lawsuit. So, it was filed. It was filed in the Ninth Circuit and I actually think

we might do very well even in the Ninth Circuit because it's an open and closed case.

I was put here for security. Whether it's space force which we're doing today or whether it's borders because if our nation doesn't have borders --

we don't have too much of a nation. Especially when drugs and all of the things that you know better than anybody what's happening at the border.

It's a bad situation.

So I think -- I think we're going to do very well with the lawsuit. OK? Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You referred earlier to your meetings in Vietnam. What do you want to achieve during that summit?

TRUMP: Well, I'd just like to see ultimately denuclearization of North Korea. I think we will see that ultimately. I have no pressing time

schedule. And I think a lot of people would like to see it go very quickly from the other side. I really believe that North Korea can be a tremendous

economic power when this is solved. Their location between Russia, China and South Korea is unbelievable.

[14:50:09] I think that North Korea and Chairman Kim have some very positive things in mind, and we'll soon find out. But I'm in no rush,

there's no testing. As long as there's no testing, I'm in no rush. If there's testing, that's another deal. But there has been no testing.

If you look at the end of the Obama administration, it was a disaster what was going on. You don't have that right now. It's a much different

feeling. I think people have -- there's always danger, but I think people have a much different feeling.

So I hope that very positive things are going to happen. I think that it'll be a very exciting couple of days. Thank you all very much. Thank



TRUMP: Bernie Sanders is running. That's right. Personally, I think he missed his time. But I like Bernie because he's -- he is one person that,

on trade, he sort of would agree on trade. I'm being very tough on trade. He was tough on trade. The problem is he doesn't know what to do about it.

We're doing something very spectacular on trade. But I wish Bernie well.

It will be interesting to see how he does. I think what happened to Bernie maybe was not so nice. I think he was taken advantage of. He ran great

four years ago. And he was not treated with respect by Clinton, and that was too bad.

I thought what happened to Bernie Sanders four years ago was, was quite sad as it pertains to our country. So we'll see how he does. You've got a lot

of people running, but only one person is going to win. I hope you know who that person is. Goodbye, everybody. Thank you.


JONES: President Trump speaking somewhat candidly at the signing ceremony at the Oval Office just a short time ago.

Now, we want to bring you some breaking news on a story that we've been following here at CNN. The family of the British ISIS schoolgirl who has

been asking to come back home has been told the government here in the U.K. intends to deprive her of her British citizenship.

19-year-old, Shamima Begum, recently gave birth and is now in a Syrian refugee camp. She left Britain to join ISIS in Syria when she was 15 years

old. The family's lawyer says they are disappointed with the decision and are considering all legal avenues to challenge it. That's our breaking


Plenty more coming up after the short break. Stay with us.


JONES: He defined an era and was synonymous with one of the most famous fashion houses in history. Karl Lagerfeld dressed everyone from Princess

Caroline of Monaco to Rihanna to Melania Trump. Lagerfeld today died at the age of 85.

Well, if there's one publication that really showcase Karl Lagerfeld's work, it's Vogue Magazine. And Vogue is remembering the designer today.

I'm joined by Vogue international editor, Susie Menkes. Susie, thank you so much for coming in.

He has been described as a prolific designer, a creative genius. But also, so many people remember him for his friendship, his humanity, his

generosity. How do you remember him?

SUSIE MENKES, INTERNATIONAL EDITOR, VOGUE: I think of Karl as a chameleon. He was so different in different ways. I first knew him and he was very

haute and he would -- he had always had something with him. And a whole lot of people around him. And then I was quite frightened of him. Then I

got to know him better and I understood his love for music and especially his love for books. His home had books like you can't imagine. Tables and

tables and tables of them.

[14:55:11] And then, of course, I saw all the shows that he did right from the beginning over. I think it's two decades that I've seen his work. So

for me, he is both an extraordinary designer. And also somebody who -- I wouldn't say a friend, but somebody who I knew very well.

JONES: He's one of the most recognizable men in fashion, in the world perhaps, you could say as well, for his iconic look. I'm wondering what

legacy he has then when it comes to younger designers as well. Was he very much into mentoring younger designers coming through?

MENKES: Karl Lagerfeld was always interested in the new. He never sat on his laurels. He never talked about the past. In fact, he hated the past.

And so he certainly helped some young designers, so one or two of them that he would go and encourage them.

But in general, he was just this spirit that encouraged the designers, the young ones themselves, the feeling that you get, do this. And he, of

course, Karl himself came from Germany. He won an award and he built himself up. His trajectory is not so very different from a lot of

designers that you get today.

JONES: Very well-known as well and for the animosity, I suppose he spread among some in the anti-fur campaign as well because he used quite a lot of

fur with his designs.

But also because one of his greatest love of all time was his cat, Choupette. Did you meet Choupette?

MENKES: I met Choupette. Certainly, Karl wouldn't go around without him. And I remember when we were in Germany. I think it was Karl's first visit

in fashion designers for Chanel. And this cat appeared and apparently had two people coming to look after him.

JONES: Two maids, I heard.

MENKES: Yes. That's right.

JONES: Yes. In his own bedroom as well. And poor Choupette has since been orphaned obviously now.

Did Karl Legerfeld have any other families? Well, one wonders who his presumably personal wealth, not only his fashion credentials, but his

wealth as well will be left too in his death.

MENKES: I don't know anything about his private life, but who he's leaving money to. Although I know that he has got a sister who's still living.

And the sister has a daughter in America. The sister has a daughter who I believe is a ballet dancer or a music person.

But he certainly spent a lot of time with the young boy who we all fell in love with, because he was often on the runway. And he was 7 or 8 years

old. And he was like a sort of bemusing tool for Karl. But, no, he didn't have family. He lost one of his great close friends to aids and always

after that was very sad about that period in the '80s.

And he said to me about that that he was with Madonna that the '80s didn't exist because he wasn't there.

JONES: One word, if you could, to describe Karl Lagerfeld.

MENKES: Genius.

JONES: Genius. Susan Menkes, thank you so much for joining us on the program and for sharing your memories of a great man. Thank you.

MENKES: Thank you.

ONES: And thank you as well for watching the program tonight. Do stay with us here on CNN. As I mentioned before, Richard Quest with "QUEST

MEANS BUSINESS" is coming up at the top of the hour.