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'Empire' Actor Faces Felony Charge, Accused of Faking Attack; Coast Guard Officer Charged with Planning Mass Attack; Michael Cohen to Testify in Public Before House Panel Next Week; DOJ Preparing for Mueller Report as Early as Next Week. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired February 21, 2019 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jussie Smollett should come clear. The truth will set him free.

[05:59:32] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've known him for eight years. I've never known him to lie.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: This turns out to be the modern-day lie if the police are right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taxpayers funded this investigation. They can't just not give us the information.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That will be totally up to the new attorney general.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think there's anything Trump would be looking forward to here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Thursday, February 21, 6 a.m. here in New York, and we have a ton of breaking news this morning.

In just hours, a bail hearing is set for "Empire" actor Jussie Smollett. He's now facing a felony charge for allegedly filing a false police report claiming that two men attacked him last month.

Also, a chilling case in Maryland. A Coast Guard officer is accused of planning a mass murder. The lieutenant whom authorities say is a domestic terrorist and a self-proclaimed white nationalist is set to appear in court today. Officials say targets include Democratic lawmakers and journalists. The court filing revealed that he'd been stockpiling weapons in his apartment just outside Washington, D.C.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, and there's a lot more news. There's a big development in Robert Mueller's investigation. Sources tell CNN the report could be handed over to Attorney General Bill Barr as early as next week. The filing of this highly-anticipated report may ignite new controversy over how much of it Congress and the American public gets to see.

So we have so much to cover for you this morning. Let's begin with CNN's Ryan Young. He is live in Chicago for us with the latest twist in the Jussie Smollett case -- Ryan.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, as of an hour ago, the actor still hasn't turned himself in. Look, this story gained national attention and people wondering how it will come to an end.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

YOUNG (voice-over): Jussie Smollett going from an alleged victim to a suspect in a possible felony, with Chicago police saying that "The Empire" filed a false police report when he claimed these two men attacked him last month while hurling racist and homophobic slurs.

JUSSIE SMOLLETT, ACTOR: I don't have any doubt in my mind that that's them. Never did.

YOUNG: Authorities say the brothers testified before a grand jury on Wednesday for 2 1/2 hours. Their lawyers telling reporters that the men were paid by Smollett to carry out the attack.

GLORIA SCHMIDT, ATTORNEY FOR OSUNDAIRO BROTHERS: There was a point where this story needed to be told, and they manned up and they said, "You know what? We're going to correct this."

YOUNG: One police source telling CNN investigators are working to obtain Smollett's financial records to corroborate the claim. This surveillance video shows the two men inside a beauty supply store just one day before the alleged attack, purchasing items including a ski mask and a red hat.

One source telling CNN Smollett missed a scheduled meeting with police on Wednesday. He denied any involvement in the attack in an interview last week.

SMOLLETT: Who thought I'd (EXPLETIVE DELETED) make something like this up or add something to it or whatever it may be? I can't -- I can't even -- I'm an advocate.

YOUNG: His attorney saying in a statement Wednesday night, "Like any other citizen, Mr. Smollett enjoys the presumption of innocence. Authorities tweeting Wednesday that they're looking to speak with Smollett's lawyers to negotiate a reasonable surrender for his arrest. And Alisyn, we've been talking to our sources overnight to try to figure out did they know the whereabouts of the actor.

That so far has come back with they know there where he is. They want to see if he's going to walk himself in or if his lawyers are going to call police to try to figure out how they're going to play this out -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Boy, these next few hours will be very interesting to see how that unfolds, Ryan. Thank you.

Here to give us more info is CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson. He's a criminal defense attorney.

Joey, so Jussie Smollett now faces charges of felony disorderly conduct for filing a false police report. What does that mean for him, and does that charge come with jail time?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: What it means is that he's in a very bad place and now, obviously, everybody gets the presumption of innocence. And we'll determine later exactly what happened.

But as it's looking now, Alisyn, it looks problematic. You cannot file a false police report. To the issue of jail time, it's a felony. That felony carries one to three years. And notwithstanding, you know, in this particular case, I think there's an incentive for jail, because you want to set the example that this is not the proper thing to do.

Again, we don't know, and it will be determined through the course of the judicial process exactly what occurred. But there's a real deterrent factor. You're diverting resources, and people cannot be doing this if it's not true. And so therefore, I think his exposure is significant.

CAMEROTA: There's no evidence that has come to light, and it's this video two of the brothers who are no longer called suspects. And it's them purchasing things: the hat; they're purchasing ski masks. They're purchasing sunglasses.

But explain to me how this video, which looks incriminating to them somehow implicates Jussie Smollett.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it implicates him very specifically. Remember now, we have a narrative from these two brothers. These two brothers, Alisyn, are saying that. "Listen, this is what went down." They're cooperating with the police.

"We were paid, allegedly, do this. We set this up. We practiced beforehand. We purchased a rope. We purchased the mask. We purchased other items. And it's not only my word. This is when I was in the store." The police pulled the records, including that surveillance tape. That's what we call evidence. That's also what we call corroboration.

CAMEROTA: But I mean, it's his word against their words.

JACKSON: Always.

CAMEROTA: Against their words, and he's sticking to his story that they attacked him. So how do -- what do police do next?

JACKSON: In every trial, in every situation, not that we're there yet, there's going to be conflicting evidence. You're going to have person A say one thing, person B say another. Therefore, it's left to common sense. People are going to ask themselves if it goes this far. Do these facts seem likely. Two o'clock in the morning, you're approached at that particular time.

Why were you there? Why was your manager on the phone? Why did you delay 40 minutes to speak to the police? Why did you redact your phone records? And so obviously, in instances where there's no smoking gun, I would assert that that is a smoking gun, you use corroborating supportive, circumstantial evidence to prove your case.

CAMEROTA: We've got two seconds. What if Jussie Smollett doesn't turn himself in this morning?

JACKSON: Then the police go get him. Look, he has to obey judicial process, and surrender is much more likely to be favorable to him on the issue of bail. Bail is to ensure your return to court. In the event he surrenders, it shows he's not a flight risk. That would be a good look.

CAMEROTA: Joey Jackson, thank you --

JACKSON: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: -- very much. John.

BERMAN: All right. A Coast Guard and a self-described white nationalist is due to appear in court today. Federal prosecutors call him a domestic terrorist who stockpiled a big cache of weapons and was planning a mass killing, with several political and media figures on his hit list.

Our Jessica Schneider live in Washington with the very latest here -- Jessica.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, and this man, prosecutors say, was planning mass murder was, at the same time, going to work every day at Coast Guard headquarters here in Washington, D.C.

Now, when the Coast Guard eventually noticed red flags, they launched an investigation and agents discovered an arsenal in the suspect's apartment.

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SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Court documents providing chilling details about a Coast Guard lieutenant who prosecutors say hoped to "murder innocent civilians on a scale rarely seen in this country" before being arrested in Maryland last week.

Forty-nine-year-old Christopher Hasson is facing federal charges of illegal possession of a firearm and possession of a controlled substance. But prosecutors say these charges are just the tip of the iceberg, writing, "The defendant is a domestic terrorist bent on committing acts dangerous to human life that are intended to affect government conduct."

Investigators say they found this hit list on his computer containing names of prominent Democrats, including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, and Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, as well as a number of 2020 Democratic candidates, including senators Kamala Harris, Cory Booker and Kirsten Gillibrand. The list also containing the names of several journalists from CNN and MSNBC.

Federal agents say they found 15 firearms and more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition in Hasson's Maryland apartment. In addition to a stockpile of steroids the government says Hasson was using to increase his ability to conduct attacks.

In e-mails outlined in court filings, Hasson calls himself a white nationalist and was inspired by a manifesto written by Anders Breivik, a Norwegian terrorist convicted of killing 77 people in 2011.

Prosecutors say roughly a month before his arrest, Hasson Googled topics including "Are Supreme Court justices protected," "Where do most senators live in D.C." and "civil war if Trump impeached."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: And Lieutenant Hasson will be in court this afternoon in Maryland for a detention hearing. Prosecutors are pushing the judge to keep him behind bars because of the major threat they say he poses -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Jessica Schneider for us in Washington.

I want to bring in Lisa Monaco, the former assistant to the president for homeland security and counterterrorism under President Obama. And Lisa, you were also a career federal prosecutor.

I want to read you the first line of this detention memo. It says, "The defendant intends to murder innocent civilians on a scale rarely seen in this country. He must be detained pending trial."

That is chilling, Lisa. What does it tell you?

LISA MONACO, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, good morning, John. It is stunning. That first line of that detention memo really took my

breath away. As you mentioned, I was a career federal prosecutor. I also oversaw all terrorism and national security prosecutions nationwide when I was in the Justice Department. And I have never seen a detention memo start with a sentence like that. So that was really stunning.

BERMAN: And we put up the target list. We know that this man had been looking into media figures, Democratic political figures. We also know that he had been reading the manifesto from a European terrorist, that 15-hundred-page manifesto from Anders Breivik. What does that tell you?

MONACO: Well, that focus is really interesting to me. You know, the Breivik incident happened and his attacks happened, 77 people killed in Norway, happened in 2011.

And so that was when I was in the Justice Department, and I was very focused on that case. And -- but it is not a household name when it comes to terrorism cases.

So it says to me that this -- this Hasson guy is pretty committed, pretty focused, and he was following this manifesto almost to a "T" in a very tactical sense.

BERMAN: Very tactical sense. He was stockpiling performance- enhancing drugs, because Breivik suggested that that and diet somehow put you in a better frame of mind to carry out terror attacks.

[06:10:03] The environment in this country right now, some people consider a toxic environment. How do you think that will play into this case?

MONACO: Well, we're going to have to see how this case unfolds, John, but there's no doubt that this arrest and this -- this detention that the government is seeking today in the hearing is in line with a rise that we've seen in domestic extremism and hate crimes overtime.

In 2017 we saw a three-fold increase by some measures in far right extremist attacks. So this is consistent with those trends and really quite concerning to folks who focus on domestic terrorism.

BERMAN: Very quickly, we still don't know exactly how this came to light, how this crossed the transom of law enforcement. Why is that important to you?

MONACO: That is one of the big questions I have. You know, how did the guy come on law enforcement's radar? Did he -- was there a tip? Was there somebody at work who saw something strange? Was he under surveillance for some other reason?

Well, we're -- it looks like he was buying drugs from individuals outside of this country. Were those people under surveillance? So all of these things are big questions.

BERMAN: Lisa Monaco, thank you very much for being with us. We're going to stay on this case -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, John. Our next big story, Michael Cohen will testify in public next week before the House Oversight Committee. The president's longtime lawyer, now a convicted felon, canceled an earlier appearance, citing safety concerns.

A judge has now granted Cohen a two-month delay to surrender for his three-year prison term. Ryan Nobles is live on Capitol Hill with the latest -- Ryan.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Alisyn.

This on again, off again, highly-anticipated hearing is now back on again. It will happen next Wednesday, February 27, and it will happen here on Capitol Hill while the president is on the other side of the world meeting with Kim Jong-un in that second summit with the North Korean leader.

Of course, the president's former lawyer canceling that first appearance because he was worried about safety concerns. And now we are getting a sense of exactly what he will tell congressional leaders in this open hearing.

Elijah Cummings, the chair of the House Oversight Committee, saying this in a statement yesterday, that the scope of the hearing will address the president's payoffs, financial disclosures, compliance with campaign finance laws, business practices, and other matters.

And of course, there is some concern about the way that the president and the White House have handled Cohen's public appearances. The mayor's -- the president's lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, bringing up Cohen's father-in-law in repeated press statements.

And Nancy Pelosi's made it very clear that they are not going to tolerate any threats to Michael Cohen. In a tweet yesterday, she said, "Michael Cohen will come in front of the @OversightDems and @HouseIntel Committees next week. Congress has an independent duty under the Constitution to conduct oversight of the executive branch, and any efforts to intimidate family members or pressure witnesses will not be tolerated."

Cohen himself tweeting that he is looking forward to telling his side of the story. Of course, Alisyn, he is scheduled to report to prison at the beginning of May -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Ryan, thank you very much for setting all of that up.

Joining us now to talk about it is John Avlon. He's our CNN senior political analyst. So Ryan just laid out what Michael Cohen -- what they want to talk to him about, all the financial disclosures.

Here's what Elijah Cummings, the chairman, says they don't want to talk to him about. "The scope of the Oversight Committee's open public hearing will not include questions relating to the Intelligence Committee's investigation of efforts by Russia to influence the 2016 election and other matters."

What do you see here, and what's going to happen?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, that's a clear bright line, but the headline here is the revelations will finally be televised. This has been delayed several times under intimidation of his father, he said.

And it's significant, because he has knowledge not only of the campaign and you saw Elijah Cummings' note, but also of the business practices. So this is going to be wide-ranging and, I think, pretty revelatory testimony.

CAMEROTA: I wonder what makes us think he's going to show up next week, since he canceled. I mean, everybody thought he was going to show up for February 7 until he canceled it, and he says under threat of intimidation from Rudy Giuliani, the president's attorney, and the president.

AVLON: Well, in part because he's confronted those -- the House Dems say they won't permit it. It's understandable to have a little bit of loosey in the football about this.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

AVLON: But he is committed to this date, and the judge has extended his time before he has to report to prison, in part because so he had time to prepare for this testimony.

CAMEROTA: It's also interesting that he himself tweeted that "I look forward to telling the American people my story. #truth"

AVLON: "#truth, this is the rehabilitation of Michael Cohen's reputation. He seems to be taking it very seriously, and he's in a unique position to know as Donald Trump's longtime fixer. He was there in the room.

CAMEROTA: I mean, the fact that the judge has postponed him having to report to prison from March 6 to now May 6, you know, I just wonder if he thinks that maybe he's going to somehow dodge it altogether or if he thinks that he can postpone it indefinitely.

AVLON: I think that game doesn't work, even for, you know, white- collar criminals. It's a serious charge. Most folks wouldn't get time off for shoulder surgery.

CAMEROTA: Yes. But wouldn't those people get time off for cooperating like he is, for publicly testifying to everything he knows?

[06:15:05] AVLON: And that's one of the weird things, that Cohen didn't try to make a deal as far as we know. Cohen -- Cohen really seems to be trying simply to come clean. This almost is a period of confessing your sins in public, because he feels he was basically played for a patsy by the most powerful man in the world.

CAMEROTA: What are you looking forward to hearing from Michael Cohen? What still needs to be answered?

AVLON: I think the key questions are the things that only Michael Cohen could know. Someone who was at Donald Trump's side, who in some ways was Donald Trump's Mini Me, in business with some shady practice. In the campaign with payoffs, allegedly, to these paramours and more.

What was his relation with Russia? Not with regard to the investigation, but with regard to his businesses? Cohen could be in a unique position to know and tell us.

CAMEROTA: And of course, who directed him to make those payments?

AVLON: That's one of the key questions.

CAMEROTA: John Avlon, thank you.

AVLON: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: John.

BERMAN: All right, Alisyn.

Sources tell CNN the attorney general is preparing to announce as early as next week the completion of Robert Mueller's Russia investigation. But exactly how much of that report will lawmakers and the public see? We have new details on how this process will work from one of the reporters who broke the story. That's next.

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BERMAN: Sources tell CNN that Attorney General William Barr is preparing to announce the completion of Robert Mueller's Russia investigation as early as next week. But how much of this confidential report will Congress and the public ever get to see?

[06:20:09] Joining us now to discuss, Laura Jarrett, CNN justice reporter who broke this story; Asha Rangappa, a former FBI special agent; and Joe Lockhart, former Clinton White House press secretary.

Laura, I want to start with you here.

First, terrific reporting on this. What were some of the signs that you and your team saw that made this evident? And No. 2, how is this going to work next week insofar as we know?

LAURA JARRETT, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So as to the signs, a big shout-out has to go to our amazing stakeout team, who is out in front of the special counsel's office literally every single day, rain and snow, and they saw last week that, in an unusual move, they were carting out boxes from the office. Something that they hadn't seen before. They had also noticed a number of attorneys from main Justice and the D.C. U.S. Attorney's Office coming over.

They also noticed that the grand jury, which we've also been watching day in and day out, hasn't been there, hasn't been spotted at the courthouse since January 24, the day this they returned the indictment on Roger Stone, Trump's longtime adviser.

So we were piecing together all of these clues for a long time, asking our sources every day, when is this happening? What's going on?

And what we finally pieced together yesterday is that the current plan, understanding it could change because the fact is the Justice officials are very mindful of the fact that the president is supposed to go overseas next week. He's supposed to have the summit with North Korea, and so they want to be mindful of those diplomatic efforts.

But the current plan is for, in the next week, Robert Mueller to deliver his confidential report to the attorney general, Bill Barr. Bill Barr will then say, "Public, I have received, it. I'm reviewing it." And then sometime soon thereafter in the next couple weeks, possibly 10 days, he will submit his own executive summary to Congress. And the big question is what exactly is he going to say to Congress?

CAMEROTA: And therein lies the rub, Asha. Because I mean, how unsatisfying will it be if Bill Barr just gives some sort of cursory summary or some sort of headline.

And, in fact, Senator Richard Blumenthal wanted to know what it was that Bill Barr would be able to provide. And so he asked him about this on January 15. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D), CONNECTICUT: Will you commit that you will explain to us any changes or deletions that you make to the special counsel report that's submitted to you in whatever you present to us?

WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I -- I will commit to providing as much information as I can, consistent with the regulations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: He'll commit to being noncommittal. I mean, what does that mean? What will the public learn?

ASHA RANGAPPA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, so, you know, he is there referring to the internal regulations of the Department of Justice, which is not to reveal derogatory information on individuals that are not charged.

And if you think back to James Comey, this is partly what he was criticized for, is for going on and saying, "We're not charging Hillary, but she was reckless" and all this kind of stuff. Because it then kind of casts a pall on people who may not have committed, you know, criminal acts.

The issue here, though, is that this is a case of intense national interest and public importance. Because it's not just an investigation like with the Clintons about his private sexual behavior. This is about interference in an election and how it affected the American people.

So I think that those privacy interests or some of those regulations have to be balanced against his obligation or Congress's need to know what actually took place in this investigation.

BERMAN: There's also a glitch in the system here, which is the Justice Department regulations are that a president can't be charged or can't be indicted.

Also, William Barr is saying, "Well, we don't reveal any of the details on declinations when we decline to prosecute." Well, they can't prosecute. Does that mean they're going to release any of the details?

Joe, you think that might be politically impossible.

JOE LOCKHART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I do think it's politically impossible. This is just too important, as Asha said.

And you've got the catch-22 perfectly, which is if your policy is you can't indict someone, then -- and your policy is also you can't release any information about someone you're not going to indict, then you're going to bury this. I just don't think you can bury this.

And I think if they do bury it, that that will be an impetus for the Democrats to open impeachment hearings. Because impeachment hearings are not about -- you don't start an impeachment hearing by saying, "We're going to impeach." You start it as a fact-gathering process.

And I really do think that that will leave them no choice and a huge pretext for saying, "This is why we have to do this."

CAMEROTA: Laura, here's the latest public opinion poll, for what it's worth. This is a CNN poll that shows there's great interest from the American public, that 87 percent of the American public have been, you know, waiting to find out what Robert Mueller discovers.

[06:25:05] And, again, it would just be really anticlimactic if -- if this comes out and -- I understand, I think that Asha makes a great point, that it could be redacted and you don't want to hear derogatory things about people who aren't somehow central. But we have to hear the conclusion.

JARRETT: Yes, I'd like to know who that 9 percent is and what their -- what their thinking is on that.

I mean, I think Asha and Joe are absolutely right. The political aspect here for Barr is really dangerous. I don't see how he's, at least, not going to be facing a huge subpoena from Congress right away. They're going to try to haul Robert Mueller up to the Hill right away to press him on exactly what he said in that report. Whether he'll answer, whether he'll come voluntarily, whether the Justice Department will try to block it, I think all of this is going to get litigated to the highest levels, probably up to the Supreme Court.

I think we're going to now be in the next tranche of this. We've been in the investigative tranche for a long time. And I think the next step here is the congressional fights and all the battles on Capitol Hill.

But the regulations, I mean, they just give him so much authority. And I think it's part of the reason that you see even Republicans like Senator Chuck Grassley coming together in a bipartisan fashion with Senator Coons to say, "Wait a minute, the regulations here actually don't say that he's supposed to give everything to Congress." The regulations say all he -- all he has to do is only reveal if there were times where the Justice Department told Mueller that's a step too far. So anything where he wasn't allowed to proceed with an investigative step, they do have to reveal that. They do have to tell Congress when he's done, of course.

But other than that, the regulations just don't provide for it, especially not the -- sort of the underpinnings, the factual evidence, all of the things that people are going to want to see that backs up all the findings in the report. That's certainly not provided for in the regulations as they're written right now. BERMAN: All right. We have some new video just into CNN that I think

is worth seeing, in the spirit of video that we've broken here on NEW DAY regarding Roger Stone.

CAMEROTA: This one's different. This has a different tone, I feel.

BERMAN: This is Roger Stone in Florida getting ready.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROGER STONE, LONGTIME TRUMP ADVISOR: Feeling great. Thank you. Enjoy the Florida weather.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Going to leave you hanging there for a second. I want you to hear Roger Stone.

CAMEROTA: He's saying, "Enjoy the weather."

BERMAN: He's in Florida enjoying the weather. He's headed to Washington, D.C., for a hearing before the judge, Amy Berman Jackson. This is the judge, whom he put up in an Instagram post. He is being hauled in there for a hearing, perhaps, to consider whether to further enforce the gag order or maybe, Asha, revoke his bail.

How much trouble is he in today? What's going to happen?

RANGAPPA: Well, he is in trouble. I mean, you don't post a picture of a federal judge in crosshairs and not have, you know, U.S. marshals show up at your house and, you know, give you a warning and end up in court.

But I think that this is going to be a stern warning. I would be surprised if she revoked his bail, because, you know, she has to strike a balance here between making sure that he gets the message that his conduct is unacceptable, but not being punitive so that he can then turn the story back to him and make himself a victim and use her, you know, actions as a basis to suggest that she can't be partial -- impartial in his case.

CAMEROTA: I guess so. Except that he violated a gag order. That is a threat. Any way you slice it that is a threat putting it up with crosshairs. And so why wouldn't she send a message by throwing the book at him?

I mean, he is a public figure. People can't do this. They need to tone it down on social media. So, you know, I mean, why wouldn't she be punitive in this case?

LOCKHART: Well, I mean, she certainly is within her power to. I think some of this is, you know -- Roger Stone is trying to be provocative here. He's trying to stay in the public attention. And I'm not sure she really wants to play into that.

If I could just go back to the previous question. One of the reasons on Barr that he has so much authority here was because of the excesses of Ken Starr.

RANGAPPA: Correct.

LOCKHART: They allowed the independent counsel statute in 1999 or 2000 to expire because, you know, 2,700 pages went up to -- and was made public.

There is a middle ground, and Barr needs to find that. The middle ground of "I'm not going to release everything, but I have to release it."

And, in fact, politically, I don't think it's that big a winner for the president if this thing is kept secret, because then you still have 60 percent of the country who thinks he did it. There's going to be exculpatory things in here. There has to be. And I think that politically, it's not a simple equation as everyone thinks.

BERMAN: No, and there is a different precedent. There's the Jaworski precedent from '74 where some of the grand jury testimony could be made available to Congress if they're engaged in impeachment proceedings, which is formality. But that could be something big to watch for in the House.

All right. Asha, Joe, Laura, thank you very much.

CAMEROTA: All right. College basketball's brightest star stopped in his tracks. His slip that had a major shoe company issuing a statement. That's next.

BERMAN: Yes, this was huge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A layup from Cam Johnson.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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