Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Is Joe Biden's Experience A Blessing Or A Curse? Vatican Holds Summit On Sexual Abuse; Judge Says Department of Justice Broke The Law In Sex Abuse Case; Nike's Stock Falls After Duke Star Breaks Shoe. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired February 22, 2019 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: -- tell you to do in terms of the hush money.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Exactly, which is a story we have not heard.

You know, obviously, we know that Michael Cohen was the person who handled the turnover of the hush money. But it has been easy to assume, and Cohen has said in legal papers, he did it at the direction of Donald Trump, which Trump has never acknowledged.

How did that all work? Were there -- what were the conversations?

And, of course, is there any corroboration of Cohen's story? Are there e-mails, are there texts? Is there anything?

He recorded conversations that suggest that then-candidate, now- President Trump was intimately involved in this.

BERMAN: Jeffrey Toobin, it is always a pleasure. Thanks for being with us this morning.

TOOBIN: Alrighty, Berman, see you.

BERMAN: Alisyn --

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right.

He leads in the polls, but is Joe Biden's political experience somehow a liability in this climate? How his experience could be a blessing or a curse. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:35:00] BERMAN: Twenty-twenty might be calling his name, but will he answer? A CNN poll shows that most Democrats want Joe Biden to jump into the presidential race, but could the former vice president's burden be his political past?

CNN's Arlette Saenz live in Washington with the very latest on that.

First of all, welcome to CNN -- welcome to NEW DAY, Arlette. Great to see you again. Go ahead.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Thanks for having me, John.

Well, Joe Biden remains one of the biggest unknown factors of this 2020 race, and there are also questions about how his long record could play in today's political environment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN (D), FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Guys, how are you?

SAENZ (voice-over): If he jumps into the 2020 race, Joe Biden's career of more than 40 years in Washington could be seen as a blessing or a curse.

BIDEN: I was in the Senate a long time.

SAENZ: With six terms in the Senate, plus two as vice president, Biden's record is ripe for scrutiny. One area set to come into the spotlight, his time as chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee when he championed the 1994 crime bill.

BIDEN: People are prisoners in their neighborhoods, they're prisoners in their house. This is straight, flat truth. Violence in America is epidemic.

SAENZ: Decades later, Biden expressed remorse after the measure led to an era of mass incarceration.

BIDEN: I haven't always been right. I know we haven't always gotten things right, but I've always tried.

SAENZ: But the former vice president still points to major elements of that bill, like an assault weapons ban and the Violence Against Women Act.

BIDEN: Well, I've spent my whole career -- my whole career fighting against violence against women. I wrote that act myself with my own hand.

SAENZ: Also under the microscope, Biden's treatment of Anita Hill --

BIDEN: Professor, do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you, God?

ANITA HILL, ACCUSED THEN-U.S. SUPREME COURT NOMINEE CLARENCE HILL OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT: I do.

BIDEN: Thank you.

SAENZ: -- presiding over the hearing as she accused Clarence Thomas of sexual harassment.

HILL: Telling the world is the most difficult experience of my life.

SAENZ: Nearly three decades later in the wake of the Me Too Movement, Biden says he owes her an apology.

BIDEN: Anita Hill was victimized. There is no question in my mind. I am so sorry that she had to go through what she went through.

SAENZ: Some of Biden's past votes play differently in the context of today's Democratic Party, from authorizing the use of force in Iraq --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The joint resolution is passed.

SAENZ: -- to his endorsement of NAFTA.

BIDEN: I'm supporting NAFTA because I think it is a positive thing to do, but not because I think it's going to cure the workers' fears who have legitimate reason to be concerned.

SAENZ: Biden's long record in the Senate could provide some fodder for future rivals.

He's already done battle with one 2020 hopeful, Elizabeth Warren. The two facing off more than a decade ago over a Biden-backed bill making it more difficult for people to file for bankruptcy.

BIDEN: Let's call a spade a spade. Your problem with the credit card companies is usury rates from your position. It's not about the bankruptcy bill.

ELIZABETH WARREN, THEN-HARVARD LAW SCHOOL BANKRUPTCY PROFESSOR TESTING AGAINST BANKRUPTCY BILL: But, Senator, if you're not going to fix that problem, you can't take away the last shred of protection for these families.

BIDEN: I got -- OK. You're very good, professor.

SAENZ: Senator Warren recalled years later --

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: And, Sen. Biden was on one side in that fight and I was on the other, and you better believe I didn't hold back.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAENZ: Now, Biden has said he's ready to litigate any possible liabilities from his past. And friends of him who have spoken to him recently have said that he's aware if he enters the 2020 race he'll become a target not just of President Trump, but also of his fellow Democrats -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Arlette, thank you very much. Stick around if you would so we can have a larger conversation.

We want to bring to in CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny. He's also done extensive reporting on Joe Biden's possible presidential bid.

So, Jeff, help us understand what Arlette just laid out there. Is it that some of his past positions have not aged well in the rearview mirror, but it's not that his lifetime of political experience is somehow a liability, right? We're not living in an upside-down --

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Right.

CAMEROTA: -- world where voters no longer want any Washington Beltway experience. It's his particular positions. Is that what could trip him up?

ZELENY: Well, Alisyn, good morning.

I mean, that is the central question here as Arlette was pointing out.

I mean, it is a fact that people like something new. Democratic voters like to fall in love with someone new. So never mind the fact that yes, they do love Joe Biden. Yes, they do like what he stands for.

But, boy, this year looks so different than those years before in the Senate, so that is the central question here.

I think that this context with this -- with this president, people are looking for experience how to run the government, so that certainly helps Joe Biden in that sense. But there's no doubt that if he decides to jump in he is going to have to explain and clarify and say based on what we see right now, I may have done things differently.

[07:40:00] So I think on the edge the experience is helpful, but not entirely so because he will have to start by essentially saying I'm sorry. But other Democrats have done that as well, so we'll see.

But, boy, at the end of Arlette's piece there -- that exchange with he and Elizabeth Warren -- I think that would certainly happen again on a debate stage if he decides to run.

CAMEROTA: Yes. No, that one -- that's --

ZELENY: Wow.

CAMEROTA: -- pretty revealing -- that one, Arlette.

Here's the latest poll in terms of what people want, OK. So what voters say they want. This is a CNN poll.

Electability -- the best chance to beat President Trump --

ZELENY: Right.

CAMEROTA: -- 49 percent. Then, here you go, right experience, 39 percent. Willing to work with the GOP, 28 percent; and hold progressive views, 25 percent.

That is really a pupu platter there of what voters want. I mean, it's hard to know where Joe Biden -- if Joe Biden has to apologize for his past experience, Arlette.

But listen, you have had several conversations with the former vice president about this calculus. So where is he? What's he thinking about, jumping in?

SAENZ: Well, he's still going through those final stages of the decision-making process and I had the chance to ask him on Saturday, in Munich, where exactly he stands.

And he's repeatedly told me that he feels like there's no hurry for him to get into this race, and that's something that's echoed by those that are close to him. That they feel like he has a little bit more time than other candidates to jump into the 2020 race.

But as of now, they are still moving forward trying to put together the pieces of this puzzle in case he does decide to launch a bid. But he's still trying to determine whether his campaign would be viable in today's political climate.

And also, weighing -- probably most importantly to him -- the family considerations. They have gone through a lot in the past few years after the passing of his son Beau back in 2015. That's something that kept him out of the race last time around.

But for now, all the friends that he's been speaking to recently have walked away from conversations with him that he is likely to do this.

But one thing that everyone in Biden world cautions is that you never know what's going to happen with Joe Biden until the words come out of his mouth. So for now, we may still be a few weeks away from finding out how he feels and ultimately, getting that word directly from him.

CAMEROTA: And that unpredictability is sometimes seen as endearing and sometimes --

ZELENY: Right.

CAMEROTA: -- it has been seen as gaffe-prone which, of course, would also come back -- certainly would be brought up if he jumps in -- some of his previous gaffes.

But, Jeff, is he right about this time line? I mean, aren't already the resources of fundraising and staff being divvied up?

ZELENY: I mean, that is the central question here. He can't wait a while but not a very long time, and that is why, Alisyn, you said staff. There are people who would like to work for him -- who want him to jump in -- but they're not going to wait around forever.

So I think that he knows that he has a limited amount of time. So look for him to make a decision probably in April.

He does not want to jump in during the month of March, probably, because that would mean that he would have to show a fundraising number. The first period of fundraising ends at the end of March so that is going to be the first indicator of how these candidates are stacking up. So look for him to possibly do it shortly after that. But look, he is going to make his own decision on his own time line.

But, Alisyn, one thing I'm learning, he is having some conversations about this with Barack Obama, his partner in the White House. I'm told by aides to both men they have conversations pretty regularly but not all that often, about once a month or so.

But I am told that President Obama is advising him to follow his gut. He's listening to him but he's not offering an opinion on if he believes he should jump in.

Alisyn, also, he is not planning on offering an endorsement, so that is going to be a fascinating development. President Obama believes he should stay on the sidelines of this Democratic fight and not endorse even Joe Biden, but that is going to be interesting here if he gets drawn into all of this.

And the Obama record is going to be looked at through the prism of today's politic as well, so that is the baggage that Joe Biden would carry into this. But it also comes with a lot of advantages as well.

So we will see if he runs a third time. Again, as Arlette says, most people around him believe that he will, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Really interesting, guys. Thank you so much for sharing both of your reporting with us. Jeff Zeleny, Arlette Saenz, thank you.

Obviously, we will hold our breath until April, at least.

BERMAN: That's a long time.

CAMEROTA: That's a long time of holding your breath -- you're right.

We also have a programming note for you. CNN will hold a presidential town hall with Sen. Bernie Sanders. This will be moderated by Wolf Blitzer. It's next Monday night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN.

BERMAN: Hi.

CAMEROTA: I'm Bernie Sanders.

BERMAN: Pope Francis promises concrete action at a Vatican summit on sexual abuse. Hear what some survivors of abuse say about that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:48:35] BERMAN: Day two of an unprecedented event at the Vatican. Nearly 200 church leaders from around the world are there for a summit to confront the child sex abuse crisis. The Pope says the church needs actions, not just words, to deal with the problem.

CNN's Rosa Flores live in Rome with the latest details. Rosa, give us an update.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, good morning.

Day two is all about accountability. And while survivors that I talked to say they agree with Pope Francis when it comes to the need for concrete measures, they don't agree with his 21-point reflection plan. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEONA HUGGINS, ABUSE SURVIVOR: I'm disappointed by what we saw today on that list of reflection points when number one is we're going to create a manual or a handbook. I thought they already had the handbook.

PETER SAUNDERS, ABUSE SURVIVOR: Concrete measures mean zero tolerance is not just a word. Zero tolerance means excluding priests and other religions who rape and abuse children from ministry permanently.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: And while this historic summit continues here at the Vatican with prayers and speeches, and even homework that Pope Francis assigned to bishops so that they can learn more about abuse on children around the world, law enforcement has lost patience. We are seeing civil and criminal investigations not just in the U.S. and Chile, but other parts around the world.

[07:50:06] In the U.S., specifically, we've learned from Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro that at least 46 A.G.s from around the country have contacted his office wanting to learn how he handled his investigation. And then, of course, there's the A.G. from Illinois saying that the Catholic Church cannot police itself.

So regardless of what comes out of this historic meeting, a lot of survivors I'm talking to say that they're going to have to rely on civil authorities to hold the church accountable.

And, Alisyn, I'm going to leave you with this because I knew that you have interviewed so many survivors -- something that a survivor told me that really stuck with me. Some of the survivors said every time that they retell their story they relive the trauma, and that's why they want history to be made here so that they don't have to retell their stories again -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: It makes sense, Rosa. I mean, it just makes perfect sense. And to them, it is crystal clear what needs to be done. And we can hear their frustration with how hard it has seemed for the church to really get it.

So, thank you very much for the reporting from Rome for us.

Now to this story. Another Trump cabinet secretary is in trouble. A federal judge in Florida has ruled that the Department of Justice broke the law by not speaking with alleged victims of a Palm Beach billionaire accused of sexually abusing dozens of underage girls.

CNN's Jessica Schneider is live in Washington with the very latest. What's the connection? Explain the connection here, Jessica.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, there have been a lot of questions and criticism surrounding this plea agreement for the Palm Beach politically-connected billionaire Jeffrey Epstein. So let me take you back to "The Miami Herald". They exposed, back in November, that Epstein really got the deal of a lifetime when he was only sentenced to 13 months in a county jail despite being accused of sexually abusing 36 underage girls in a sex ring that spanned from New York to Florida to even an island in the Caribbean.

Well now, a federal judge in Florida has ruled that the Department of Justice actually broke the law by failing to disclose details of that deal to the alleged victims.

And at the helm of this plea deal, making the connection here, was Alexander Acosta. So back in 2008, he was the U.S. Attorney in Miami. He's now the Secretary of Labor and he's the one who brokered this deal with one of Epstein's attorneys.

Epstein was able to plead guilty to just two state prostitution charges and that means he avoided a trial and it effectively shut down the FBI investigation that was ongoing.

So as a result of this ruling from the Florida judge we haven't heard any comment from Alexander Acosta, himself. But the Labor Department issued a statement here, saying, quote, "The office's decisions were approved by departmental leadership and followed departmental procedures."

Now, as for the Justice Department itself, its Office of Professional Responsibility -- they have opened an investigation into these allegations that Acosta and others who were at the U.S. Attorney's Office at the time might have committed professional misconduct.

As for the judge in South Florida, he is now asking both sides what should really be done as a result of this ruling. So really, it's unclear what, if anything, will happen to the attorneys who brokered this deal.

But there's been a lot of outrage from these victims. And finally, today, John -- yesterday, actually, the judge coming down on the side of those victims but unclear really what the remedy would be here -- John.

BERMAN: Jessica Schneider, thank you for this story. And just a reminder, the importance of journalism and "The Miami Herald" shining such a spotlight on this story.

Nike's high-profile sneaker blowout revising big, important discussions. Should college athletes be paid? "CNN Business," next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:57:50] CAMEROTA: Nike's reputation taking a hit after Duke basketball sensation Zion Williamson's sneaker exploded during a game.

Chief business correspondent Christine Romans is here with the fallout for the company and the debate over the shoe flap. Did you do that?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT, ANCHOR, "EARLY START": I did, sorry.

CAMEROTA: All right. So where are we with this?

ROMANS: You know, this is amazing.

First, let's watch that video again -- that high-profile product blunder. Within the first minute of Duke's matchup against rival North Carolina, the star player, Zion Williamson, slipped when his foot blew right through his shoe, the sole ripping loose from head to toe -- one big flap. Williamson left the game with a knee injury.

A high-profile product fail that took Nike's stock down one percent Thursday. You know, Nike supplies Duke's basketball team with uniforms, shoes, gear.

It released a statement wishing Williamson a speedy recovery and adding this. "The quality and performance of our products are of utmost importance. While this is an isolated occurrence, we are working to identify the issue."

Now, endorsement deals with star athletes like LeBron James and Serena Williams, and sponsorships with these big top college teams, that's part of Nike's growth strategy. Last year, it spent nearly a third of its sales on marketing and endorsement contracts.

Now, the incident on the hardwood, though, reviving a debate over whether college basketball players should be paid.

BERMAN: Yes.

ROMANS: Williamson has potentially tens of millions of dollars in his future. An injury in college could be devastating.

Stars like Williamson bring money and attention to Duke, right? Colleges sell their jerseys.

The tickets they make off their unpaid talent are unbelievable. The cheapest ticket for that Duke-North Carolina game was close to $3,000 -- almost as expensive as a ticket to the Super Bowl.

Now, of course, the athletes, they get coaching, they get training, they get a top-flight education. But, one wonders if this issue brings up that debate. And you and I have had this debate a bunch of times.

BERMAN: Look, I wished we lived in a world where people went to college just to go to college. But when you're done and one anyway --

ROMANS: Right.

BERMAN: I don't understand why he's not getting paid when he's bringing in so much money to Duke.

ROMANS: Now what about this rule -- the NBA may be having a rule where they're going to lower the age of the first stage for the draft. Does that solve this problem? BERMAN: It raises a whole bunch of other problems about the competitiveness of the NBA where you're having kids playing against grown men. We tried this before and very few of them actually played well right away. But, LeBron James was one of them. That worked out.

ROMANS: Isn't there something to be said for in college. That's when you're kind of -- you're growing up as an athlete and you're learning the game.

BERMAN: If they were there for four years, but they're not. That's the problem.

END