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CNN Gets Rare Access to the Taliban; GOP Scrambles Ahead of Vote; Vatican Treasurer Convicted; Aired 9:30-10a ET
Aired February 26, 2019 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:30:00] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Remarkable, living in Taliban country. Our chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward goes behind enemy lines for an exclusive, in depth, inside look at what it's like living under Taliban rule in Afghanistan.
Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Has life under the Taliban changed now from what it was before?
No?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: All right, now to a CNN exclusive. Our chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward with extremely rare access, journeying behind dangerous enemy lines deep into Taliban-controlled Afghanistan. She is with me now to share her 36 hours with the Taliban.
Some of this is very disturbing, obviously, for people to see. I want to warn them first. I've known you for years.
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
[09:35:00] HARLOW: We've been -- we've been friends for a long time. I'm not surprised that you got this. If anyone would get this, it's you. But it's still remarkable to see. Walk us through what we're going to watch.
WARD: I think what is really surprising is we haven't seen this world since 9/11. It's basically been shrouded in secrecy. It's been blocked off, inaccessible to outside visitors. And with the U.S. sitting at the negotiating table with the Taliban, with the Taliban feeling that victory is within its grasp, we felt really strongly that now is the time to get in there, to get on the ground and see whether this group has really changed.
And we did see some instances of change. The hospitals that are being run, partly by the Taliban, but with money also from the Afghan government, these kind of ad hoc cooperation situations. And that's where I first want to take our viewers is to this visit that we did to a clinic. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARD (voice over): Our first stop is a clinic that has been run by the Taliban since they took control of this area almost two years ago. A plaque at the door reveals it was a gift from the Americans in 2006.
Suddenly, a young girl outside is hit by a motorcycle. A boy rushes over to help her. The driver is a Taliban fighter. He slings his gun over his shoulder and wanders over, apparently unconcerned. Life here is brutal.
The girl is rushed inside. Her frantic mother following behind.
WARD (on camera): Is she OK? Is she OK?
WARD (voice over): But no one seems as shocked as we are. The doctor gives her mother some painkillers and sends her away. After years of fighting here, he has seen much worse.
WARD (on camera): Who's in charge of the hospital? Who's managing it?
WARD (voice over): He explained that the Taliban manages the clinic, that the government pays salaries and provides medicine.
This sort of ad hoc cooperation is becoming more and more common. And there have been other changes.
WARD (on camera): So this is something you wouldn't expect to see in a clinic under the control of the Taliban. Looks like some kind of sexual health education, talking about condoms, other forms of birth control.
WARD (voice over): Twenty-two-year-old midwife Fazila has worked under the Taliban and the Afghan government.
WARD (on camera): What has been your experience working under the Taliban here?
WARD (voice over): The Taliban never interfere in our work as women, she says. They never block us from coming to the clinic.
In the waiting area, these women say it's war and poverty that makes their lives miserable.
WARD (on camera): Has life under the Taliban changed now from what it was before?
No?
WARD (voice over): We are trapped in the middle, the woman says, and we can't do anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Amazing. I have so many questions on that.
Did you feel like the civilians that you spoke with, especially those women, those mothers, were candid with you or were they holding back?
WARD: I did. I was very surprised as to how candid they were. And what was so interesting is, I kept asking them questions, you know, what do you think of the Taliban? Do they -- and they were like, lady, it doesn't matter who's in charge here. We've lived under the government. We've lived under the Taliban. We're impoverished. It's been decades of war. We have disabled children that we can't take care of. We can't put food on the table. These are the very real concerns that they have. They're less preoccupied with who is in charge.
And when we sat down with the governor, the Taliban governor of this area, we tried to get a better sense from him, not just of the services that they're trying to provide, but of what the ramifications are from a security point of view for the U.S. specifically if the Taliban really takes over.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARD (voice over): Khaksar agrees to sit down with us. His bodyguard listens for security updates on the radio.
We start out by asking about the Taliban's brutal tactics and the U.S. concern that they could, once again, offer safe haven to terrorists.
MAWLAVI KHAKSAR, TALIBAN SHADOW GOVERNOR (through translator): Whether it's the Americans or ISIS, no foreign forces would be allowed in the country once we start ruling Afghanistan.
WARD (on camera): Are there real efforts being made to stop killing civilians?
KHAKSAR: Those responsible for civilian casualties are the ones who came with their aircrafts, artillery, B-52 and heavy weaponry.
WARD (voice over): In reality, the Taliban is responsible for thousands of civilian deaths in the last three years alone.
WARD (on camera): And what about these suicide bombings at polling stations, for example? These kill many civilians.
[09:40:02] KHAKSAR: We deny this. This accusation is not acceptable to us.
WARD (voice over): There are small signs that the Taliban is moving with the times.
KHAKSAR: I listen to the radio. Also FaceBook and other media.
WARD (on camera): You're on FaceBook?
KHAKSAR: Yes. WARD (voice over): But it's clear that the fundamental ideology has
not changed.
WARD (on camera): So if somebody is found guilty of stealing, you cut off their hand?
KHAKSAR: Yes, we implement the sharia -- we follow sharia instruction.
WARD: And if somebody is found guilty of adultery, you will stone them to death?
KHAKSAR: Yes, the sharia allows stoning to death.
WARD (voice over): As we're leaving the interview, the military commander for the district arrives and a dispute breaks out about us.
They should have brought a man, one of them says.
WARD (on camera): So the issue right now is that they don't want us to walk outside with the governor because I'm a woman. They think it's inappropriate.
WARD (voice over): We agree to follow the men at a distance, something I've never had to do in my career.
The commander, Mubariz Mujahid takes us to a nearby safehouse to be interviewed privately. We are warned that political questions are off the table.
WARD (on camera): Do you want to see peace between the Taliban and America?
MUBARIZ MUJAHID, TALIBAN MILITARY COMMANDER (through translator): It would be better if this question was put to the spokesperson of the Islamic Emirate (ph).
WARD: Do you feel like the Taliban is winning the war?
MUJAHID: God willing, we are hopeful. We are supported by God.
WARD (voice over): He wants to show off his forces for our cameras. His men are gathering just outside the village. It is exceptionally rare and dangerous for dozens of fighters to congregate in one place.
WARD (on camera): I have been coming to Afghanistan for more than ten years. I never imagined that I would be reporting from here in the heart of Taliban territory. But we're not going to stay long here because gatherings like this can be a major target for air strikes.
WARD (voice over): But the commander says America's military might can't keep them from victory.
MUJAHID: We are ready for any sacrifice. We are not scared of being hit. This is our holy path. We continue our jihad.
WARD: Most of these men have been fighting U.S. forces since they were old enough to carry a gun. The question now is, are they ready to put those guns down?
Our visit with the Taliban is coming to a close. It's time to leave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Unbelievable.
First, as a woman there, you know, very few women have ever gotten in and no woman has gotten access like you got to the Taliban. But you also said, Clarissa, you don't -- you fundamentally don't think a man could have told the story this way because the women welcomed you.
WARD: The women welcomed us. Also, I think, as a woman, you're seen as less threatening. There's less of a sense that you're a spy, that you're an enemy combatant. Because we are able to wear the full facial veil, on the one hand it's not very pleasant to wear it. On the other hand, it makes you invisible. It means that you can really go about doing your job in a way that a western man would be attracting so much more attention. So it actually really helped us.
HARLOW: And you could ask all of the important, pointed questions to them. Still, what you --
WARD: We were told not to ask political questions.
HARLOW: Yes. Of course, you -- but of course you did your job.
WARD: But we did.
HARLOW: Any world in which you believe after being on the ground there that the Taliban takes control of Afghanistan officially?
WARD: I think that's the way it's looking right now, unfortunately. U.S. troops withdraw, I think it will be only a matter of time before the Taliban is in control of most of the country.
HARLOW: You do?
Clarissa Ward, incredible reporting.
Everyone can see all of it on cnn.com as well, the entire piece.
Thank you to you, your producer, your photo journalist. Amazing work.
WARD: Thank you.
HARLOW: We appreciate it.
All right, we're just hours away from a major House vote in Washington, D.C. Republicans are scrambling to decide whether to block the president's national emergency declaration for wall funding. We'll have a live report from The Hill, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:48:48] HARLOW: All right, hours from now, the House will vote on a resolution to block the president's national emergency declaration to fund a wall on the southern border. It's expected, of course, to pass the Democratic-controlled House, but a major test, of course, will loom in the Senate.
Republican Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina made his position very clear. Here's what he writes in a new "Washington Post" op-ed. Quote, conservatives rightfully cried foul when President Barack Obama used executive action to completely bypass Congress. He goes on to say, there's no intellectual honesty in now turning around and arguing that there's an imaginary asterisk attached to executive overreach, that it's acceptable for my party but not the other party. As a U.S. senator I cannot justify providing the executive with more ways to bypass Congress.
Phil Mattingly is on Capitol Hill.
No doubt the president didn't like that one. We've seen Thom Tillis sort of stand up to him before. But I'm interested in if he's going to be alone on this island or will he be joined by enough of his fellow Republicans senators to make a real difference?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It really, Poppy, depends on what your definition of real difference is. Look, as you made clear, the House, in a couple of hours, will vote to pass this resolution to terminate the national emergency. But I think the real question going into this vote is not whether or not they'll have the majority to pass it, it's how many Republicans are going to join with Democrats.
[09:50:03] As it currently stands, in the House, only one Republican is cosponsoring this resolution to terminate the emergency. I'm told right now the expectation is around 10 or 15 Republicans will likely break ranks and join Democrats and then it will move over to the Senate. And, as you note, the big question now going into this, particularly given how many Senate Republicans in the lead-up to the declaration raised serious concerns, ideological concerns, constitutional concerns, is how many of them will break with the president, will break with the leader of their party, will break with the individual that's still in most of their states, particularly the redder states of them all, polls very, very well in those states.
Now, Thom Tillis will not be alone. Thom Tillis will at least be joined by Susan Collins, as I'm told right now. The expectation is probably around a half dozen other Republican senators are considering joining them. But I think the big question now is, it's not whether or not it will pass both chambers. Republican aides I'm talking to in both the House and the Senate expects it to pass both the House and the Senate, which, on its face, would be a rebuke of the president. But as the president has made clear, he's willing to veto whatever comes his way related to this national emergency. So the question isn't will it pass, it's by how much? That will dictate the future of that national emergency, Poppy.
HARLOW: It will. Phil Mattingly, thank you very much. We appreciate the reporting on that. One of the most senior members of the Catholic Church, one of the
closest advisers to the pope, is now a convicted sex offender, convicted of child abuse. Cardinal Pell, the stunning story and the jury's verdict is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:55:59] HARLOW: All right, let's take a look at moments ago, the president's motorcade arriving at his hotel. It is just about almost 10:00 p.m. in Hanoi, Vietnam. The president staying at the Marriott Hotel there. I think if they pan out, you're going to see a shot in just a moment. There's a big crowd waving American flags, also Vietnamese flags there, flowers welcoming the U.S. president and the delegation there for the negotiations.
Not much happening tonight. The president will spend the night at the hotel and then tomorrow is when it all begins. Of course, that is where my colleague and friend Jim Sciutto is. He will be reporting live from Hanoi all day tomorrow.
Well, this morning, the Vatican treasurer is now a convicted pedophile. Pope Francis is also responding after one of his closest advisers and one of the most powerful men in the Vatican, Cardinal George Pell, was found guilty of sexually abusing choir boys in Melbourne, Australia, this was in the '90s, when he was the city's archbishop. Cardinal Pell is the most senior official to be charged so far in the sex abuse scandal within the Catholic Church.
Our Vatican correspondent Delia Gallagher joins me this morning in Rome.
Look, the significance of this cannot be overstated. The third most powerful person at the Vatican, one of the nine who advised the pope himself. What is the response from the Vatican this morning?
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, as you say, I mean, it goes right to the heart of the Vatican and to Pope Francis because the pope hand-picked Cardinal Pell to come over here and help him try and clean up finances. As you mentioned, he's also a member -- was also a member of the pope's inner circle of advisers. So this is really a man who has been close to Pope Francis.
Earlier this morning, the Vatican responded in a statement. I just want to read a part of that statement to you now, Poppy. They said, as already expressed on other occasions, we have the utmost respect for the Australian judicial authorities. Out of this respect, we await the outcome of the appeals process recalling that Cardinal Pell maintains his innocence and has the right to defend himself until the last stage of appeal.
So, Poppy, the Vatican is standing by Cardinal Pell until the appeal verdict is used. That's something that may not make everybody happy considering that they've just had four days of a summit here on sex abuse and the pope saying he wants an all-out war against those who would abuse children. Nonetheless, that's their position and has been the position of the
pope since the beginning that he wants to wait until the final appeals process has been heard. There's really two considerations for the Vatican right now. One is that Cardinal Pell is still on a leave of absence as the pope's finance minister. His term officially expired two days ago. It's a five year term. But the Vatican has not issued any communication about a replacement for him or what has happened. So he's still technically on a leave of absence from that post and therefore could -- the Vatican could do something even before the appeals process is finished with that part of it.
The other thing that many victims call for is a church trial. You know, victims were here this weekend. They said, we're happy to see a civil trial for these cases. We also want to see the church trial because the penalty for the church is defrocking, is dismissal from the priestly state. And that is going to be -- have to be the Vatican's next step if and when the appeal process is finished and brings back a guilty verdict.
Poppy.
HARLOW: How -- how likely, Delia, is that, a church trial, that that would actually happen?
GALLAGHER: Well, I think at this point, Poppy, if the appeals verdict matches this verdict, that is that he is guilty, that's got to be automatic.
HARLOW: OK.
GALLAGHER: There's no way, at this stage, you saw it with the case of Cardinal McCarick (ph), that also happened in the United States, no way they can escape that at that point.
HARLOW: OK, Delia Gallagher on such a significant story live from Rome. Thank you very much.
[10:00:03] All right, top of the hour. Good morning, everyone. 10:00 a.m. here on the East Coast in the United States.
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