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Ex-Fixer Cohen Testifies While Trump Is Halfway Around the World; Senator Collins Says Cohen Enduring Extensive Grilling from Intel Committee; Trump Said He Trusted Kim Jong-Un At First Summit; Documents Detail Alleged Sex Abuse of Migrant Children in United States Custody; Interview with Rep. Ted Deutch (D-Fl). Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired February 26, 2019 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: All right. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me. Michael Cohen spent more than a decade defending, supporting, cheering on Donald Trump. But now for the very first time according to a source the President's ex-attorney is expected to publicly discuss Trump's role in some of the crimes Cohen pleaded guilty to this past year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Should the President be worried? What happens if you have criminal conduct? Why before? Why should Congress trust you now, Mr. Cohen?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: There he is. Cohen on Capitol Hill arriving there this morning to kick off three days of testimony. Right now, as we speak Michael Cohen is sitting behind closed doors being questioned and grilled by the is that the intelligence committee. Thursday he'll do the same, again, behind closed doors with House intel. But tomorrow is the big day. It is this time tomorrow before the House oversight committee that will be in full public view. That is when the convicted felon is expected to talk about how the President was involved in hush money payments during the 2016 campaign, two women alleging affairs with him and perhaps so much more. Cohen has already pleaded guilty to crimes related to those payments. And the chairman of House oversight says that he has gotten the sign-off from federal prosecutors in New York to discuss eight or nine different areas with the man once known as the President's fixer. So, we start on Capitol Hill with our senior Congressional correspondent Manu Raju. And Manu, we just heard there are limits to tomorrow's testimony. But what are you hearing about what's happening today behind closed doors?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, a lot is happening, focusing on the misstatements that Michael Cohen made in 2017 when he testified before this same committee along with the House intelligence committee, but when he told this committee lies that he admitted to later, pleading guilty to those lies about conversations that he had with the President and others about that Trump tower Moscow project that they were pursuing in the Trump organization back in 2015. He had said at the time that he really downplayed it when he met with the committee initially suggesting that it ended in January 2016, but he later admitted that he lied to the committee and said those conversations were much more extensive, they occurred up until June of 2016. But what we were told by people who are in attendance, that there's been a lot of focus about those past misstatements in this closed-door session that's been going on since 9:30 this morning. Now, Roy Blunt, who's a member of the committee, wouldn't talk about details. He said this is a closed hearing. But he did spend quite a bit of time explaining what he had told us before that wasn't truthful. Susan Collins, another member of the committee, said he's been enduring extensive grilling over the past several hours here. And members want to know exactly why he lied and whether the President was involved in any way. We don't have a sense of what he has said about that just quite yet. But the White House is already pushing back, Brooke, saying that there's nothing that can be trusted about what Michael Cohen is saying privately or publicly. Sarah Sanders putting out a statement saying it's laughable that anyone would take a convict liar like Cohen at his word and pathetic to see him given another opportunity to spread his lies. Tomorrow will be a bit different scope. We're going to hear about those hush money payments, the President's involvement in those. The silence on those alleged affairs that occurred in 2016, the payments that occurred in the 2016 campaign. Other crimes that Cohen is going to allege the President was involved in. Perhaps new details. Some corroborating new evidence. That's what the members want to hear. Both sides, Republicans in particular, are going to question his credibility, can he sustain that scrutiny? All big questions heading into tomorrow. But today he's facing those questions about why he lied initially and the members are reacting saying they want to hear more from Michael Cohen. Brooke?

BALDWIN: OK. So, the grilling continues behind those closed doors. Manu Raju all over it. Thank you so much. Let's get some analysis on what to expect also for this key day tomorrow. Elie Honig, Jennifer Rodgers, who are both CNN legal analysts and former federal prosecutors, are here. Just jumping off of Manu's point on the hush money payments, that can be sort of the opening moment for these members of Congress to start questioning Michael Cohen and obviously their thinking if he would cover up in that regard what else perhaps did he cover up with President's help? What are your key questions?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The hush money payments are a perfectly logical place to start. We know Michael Cohen was involved. Michael Cohen himself directly implicated the President. And DOJ signed on to that very importantly. So, I would want to get chapter and verse on those payments. I'd want to talk about the inaugural fund. Trump was -- excuse me, Cohen was involved in that. He made a recording of somebody involved in that.

[14:05:03] I want to know about Cohen's false statements to the Senate, his false testimony about the timing of the Trump tower Moscow project. It's clear that someone else or other people were involved in crafting that false testimony. Who was involved? Who saw your testimony? What was the conversation? I want to know whether anyone ever promised him or brought up the possibility of a pardon, which could be obstruction of justice. We've seen the President potentially dang dangling pardons from Manafort and stone. Were there similar conversations with Michael Cohen? The last thing I'd want to k. Him is what questions did you decline to answer from the answer from the southern district of New York? Our old office turned down Cohen originally as a cooperator because he would not answer everything. I would say what were you protecting, who were you protecting?

BALDWIN: Sounds like the members of Congress right now behind closed doors are asking those questions.

HONIG: They can use that.

BALDWIN: They can. But he lies. And he's lied all the time. And so, you heard the White House response. The Republicans are going to be poking holes, why should we be listening to this guy, convicted felon. The Democrats are the ones who could be sympathetic to Michael Cohen in their questioning tomorrow. So why should Congress, why should America even listen to him and believe him?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: When you listen to Sarah Sanders it's almost as if she doesn't know how criminal cases are brought, right? How big criminal organizations and schemes are taken down. And it's by taking cooperating witnesses who can tell you about the inside of the scheme. And I've got to tell you as we know, they all lie at the beginning. So, what you have to do as a prosecutor is yes, you're skeptical. You talk to them. Do you believe them right after that? No. But you listen to what they have to say and you look at the other evidence. You corroborate them with other witnesses and what they're telling you. Documents, recordings, basically anything you can find that either supports them or doesn't support them. And then you decide whether they're worthy of belief and then you're going to sign them up and put them in front of a jury. No one is going to take this at face value. They're going to take what they already know from other sources, put it against what Michael Cohen is saying and that's when you decide whether he's believable. But just because he lied at the beginning, that is so, so common. Doesn't mean he's lying now.

BALDWIN: You mentioned recordings. His penchant for recording all of the things, right? Is it possible he shows up tomorrow with more evidence?

HONIG: It is possible. That's why this is going to be such a dynamic situation. In any criminal trial the most dramatic, most explosive moment is when the cooperator takes the stand. Testifies against his former partner, his former boss. We're going to have that here. Only no rules of procedure, no rules of evidence.

BALDWIN: You can't object --

HONIG: Right. Normally if you have a piece of evidence at a criminal trial the prosecutor would offer it up, the defense lawyer would object the judge would evaluate it and say it's in or it's out.

BALDWIN: Yes.

HONIG: Here there's no rules for that. Nothing's to stop Cohen from pulling a document out of his pocket and say here we go, and I'm passing this out to the committee. So, it will be wild west.

BALDWIN: Wild west on Wednesday in Washington. You like that? So, this will also focus on the areas where Trump cares the most. Trump Organization, business, finances, family. So, is it possible that we could learn about new alleged misconduct?

RODGERS: We could. And that's one of the areas that I'm really interested in for a couple of reasons. The Trump organization and possible kind of corporate wrongdoing there. Because you could be talking about a bunch of different things. We've heard reporting about insurance fraud possibly that Cohen might be talking about. You have things like tax fraud. You have potential accounting first of all. And that implicates not just Trump but the Trump children. The three eldest children who are executives of the Trump organization. Which means that just because you can't indict Trump doesn't mean you can't indict anybody. There are people to charge there. Secondly, you could backstop charges like that with state charges. There are lots of laws on the books in New York state about how you keep your books and records. You can't commit accounting fraud. New York state tax fraud, et cetera. That means that if the President were to pardon, say, his children for some sort of federal crimes related to Trump organization activity --

BALDWIN: Can't do it on the state level.

RODGERS: You can't do it on the state level. That's why it's interesting going forward.

BALDWIN: See you two in Washington. Thank you, guys, very much. Halfway around the world, President Trump arrives in Vietnam for a second summit with Kim Jong-un. New details on the relationship and what the President told Kim in private. Plus, as the surreal headlines keep it coming, one conservative says America has been finally normalized Trumpism. He joins me on why there's no turning back now.

And a CNN exclusive. 36 hours with the Taliban. Clarissa ward goes to the front lines as the U.S. prepares to pull its troops after 17 years of war in Afghanistan. Do not miss this. It is extraordinary reporting. You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

[14:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: We are back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. As the President's former fixer testifies to Congress, President Trump will be halfway around the world readying for his second face to face with North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un. And I think we'd all agree that the two men have come quite a long way from the early days the Trump White House and comments like these.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States. They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen.

Rocket man is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:15:04] BALDWIN: But little by little the ice began to thaw. Fast-forward to 2018 and to this scene in Singapore last June during the first Trump-Kim summit. Lots of handshakes. Long walks. Smiles. Even a thumbs up from the President. Things went so well apparently that he boldly declared without a shred of evidence that North Korea was no longer a threat. Shortly after arriving back home in Washington. So, what, you may ask, was the turning point? According to the President, it was the power of the written word.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: When I did it, and I was really being tough, and so was he, and we were going back and forth. And then we fell in love. OK? No, really. He wrote me beautiful letters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was in September. But Trump reportedly has six of these letters which call him your excellency while touting his intelligence and energy. Letters he is fond of showing off in private and as he did just a couple weeks ago at a cabinet meeting in public.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I just got a great letter from Kim Jong-un. And those few people that I've shown this letter to, they've never written letters like that. This letter is a great letter. We've made a lot of progress with North Korea and Kim Jong-un.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Tom Countryman was a senior State Department official for national security in the Trump administration. He's also an adviser on foreign policy for America. Tom Countryman, a pleasure to have you back. Welcome. Welcome, sir.

TOM COUNTRYMAN, FORMER SENIOR STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL FOR NATIONAL SECURITY PUSHED OUT BY TRUMP: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right. So, letters aside, the first summit between these two may have been more of style over substance but now the pressure's really on, right? To walk away with something tangible both for Trump and for Kim.

COUNTRYMAN: Yes. Pressure is on. And I think it is not just optimistic but possible, conceivable that there will be a significant step forward, that both the United States and North Korea will do something significant that advances the process and at the same time they agree to an intensified negotiation process below the level of the national leaders.

BALDWIN: Progress, Tom -- hang on. Can you be specific? What kind of page progress are you counting on? COUNTRYMAN: According to press reports, there is at least hope that

from the North Korean side there will be a commitment to decommission the facility at Yongbyon where North Korea has produced all the material for its nuclear weapons. And if that comes with a inspection, verification process by international inspectors, that would be a significant step. From the U.S. side it appears the President is prepared to make some kind of declaration about the Korean war finally being over 65 years after the shooting stopped. Those two steps don't get all the way to the finish line of denuclearization and normalization of relations, but it's those kind of steps, whether large or small, that are taken in coordination with each other, action for action, that has the potential to make some significant progress here.

BALDWIN: I hear words like potential and hope and it would be so significant, and we will cover it if both sides, you know, walk away from something. So many previous Presidential, you know, predecessors have been working toward something concrete. But let me throw this curveball in. Because could Trump be, you know, so desperate for a win and to change the headlines from what will be playing out in Washington with this public hearing with his former fixer Michael Cohen that he potentially goes off script or makes concessions instead of standing firm?

COUNTRYMAN: Well, you already know that regardless of what happens in Hanoi the President will tweet afterwards that it was the greatest diplomatic achievement in human history. It's a man who has a record of both making bad deals and of violating good deals and bad deals. So, I am reluctant to predict that he will be disciplined in this setting. But what's different from Singapore is that there's been a more intensive preparation by the foreign policy practitioners in both countries for some kind of common agreement. And if the President is able to stick to that and not do the kind of gratuitous freelancing that he did in Singapore it could be a significant step forward.

BALDWIN: Tom Countryman, thank you very much. We'll be covering it as he meets with Kim in Vietnam. Coming up next dramatic moments during an oversight hearing moments ago. Hearings on the Trump family separations at the border. What we're hearing about allegations of sexual abuse against migrant children.

[14:20:05] Plus, we are a few hours away from a House vote to terminate Trump's emergency declaration on the border wall. And yet another Republican senator is standing up to the President. Why some say they are ready to just say no.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:00] BALDWIN: New disturbing allegations are coming to light about unaccompanied minors in U.S. custody. Documents from the department of health and human services show that the agency received thousands of complaints of children being sexually abused over a three-year period. And Democratic Congressman Ted Deutch addressed the allegations during a high-profile House hearing today on the Trump administration's family separation policy. Here's how a top Health and Human Services official responded to that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COMMANDER JONATHAN WHITE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: The vast majority of allegations prove to be unfounded when they're investigated by state law enforcement and federal law enforcement and the state licensure authorities to whom we refer them. It is important to note I'm not aware of a single instance anywhere of an allegation against a member of the O.R. federal staff for abuse of a child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And Congressman Deutsch is with me now from Capitol Hill. Congressman Deutsch, thank you so much for being with me.

REP. TED DEUTCH (D), FLORIDA: Pleasure.

BALDWIN: You are the one who obtained these documents from HHS. So, tell me why you released these, how you got them, why you released them.

DEUTCH: Sure. Well, the House judiciary committee made a request in connection with the zero-tolerance policy of this administration. It's a policy that the American people found such problems with to begin with because it tore kids away from their families. But in response to our request we received thousands and thousands of documents in big stacks and buried in the stack of documents was a response to one of our questions about cases of sexual assault. And it's incredibly alarming that over the course of the past number of years, year after year, there's more than -- there have been more than 1,000 cases of alleged sexual assault per year. And what's especially troubling is that in the past three years more than 150 of those alleged cases are adults on child. It's the adults who work under the care and direction of HHS who have been preying upon the children under the care of HHS. And it's horrific. The details are horrific. And yet this is the first we've heard of it. It only raises 1,000 other questions about what happened to the people who were investigated. Some we were told were reassigned. Some were terminated. Who conducted the investigations? When did they conduct the investigation? And most importantly, when the administration decided to pursue this policy did they stop for even a minute to acknowledge the data that showed that these kids aside from being torn away from their parents and the trauma that would cause would be put into situations where they were at risk of sexual abuse.

BALDWIN: I want to get into some of these allegations. I imagine they're atrocious, some of what you're looking at. But just to be clear, we're talk three years. And if my math serves, three years, that would be under both the Obama and Trump administrations. I hear you talking about the separation buzz this has been going on for three years, just so we're all on the same page.

DEUTCH: Right.

BALDWIN: When you say these are staff members under HHS, who specifically and in what capacity were they serving? What kind of interactions did they have with the young people?

DEUTCH: That's what we're just now trying to figure out. We know from the charts that were delivered to us, we know that there were cases and cases over 150 just identified as staff abuse of the children. We don't know all of the details about who they were. We don't know exactly what their relationship was. We don't know whether they all had appropriate background checks. All that we've been told thus far, this morning both in the hearing and the statement you that just played, is that HHS's response shockingly is, well, these weren't our employees. It's not a question of whether or not these were employees who worked for HHS. The issue is the fact that these kids, so many of whom traveled thousands of miles, so many of whom were ripped away from their parents when they got to America trying to seek safety, were put into these situations where they were at risk of sexual assault. We don't -- I wish I could give you answers to all these questions. These are the kinds of questions we'll be asking going forward. We have an absolute right to know. And the one thing that was repeated over and over this morning in our hearing is we always look out for the best interests of these kids, and in this case, there was a total failure to do so.

BALDWIN: I'm going to stay in contact. We're going to stay in contact with your office as you demand these answers to these questions and get to the bottom of this and demand change. Congressman Ted Deutch, good to see you and thank you very much for this.

[14:30:03] Michael Cohen, the President's former fixer, is at this moment testifying behind closed doors on Capitol Hill. Hear what senators are telling us about the quote unquote extensive grilling he's getting and why his testimony today thus far has been surprising.

Plus, Clarissa Ward goes to the front lines in Afghanistan for 36 hours with the Taliban. We'll talk to Clarissa about this reporting. Do not miss this.