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Amtrak Train With 183 Passengers Stranded In Oregon For More Than 24 Hours; CNN Reality Check: How Gun Laws Should Have Prevented Deadly Illinois Shooting; Behind Enemy Lines For Rare Access To The Taliban. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired February 26, 2019 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Lawyers say they will appeal.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Nearly 200 people are stuck on a train in Oregon as we speak, and they have been stuck since Sunday.

Amtrak's Coast Starlight train was traveling from Seattle to Los Angeles when it hit a tree on the tracks in Oakridge, Oregon. No one was hurt but intense snowfall has now made it unsafe for anyone to rescue them.

Joining us on the phone is Rebekah Dodson. She is trapped on that train.

Rebekah, oh my gosh, this sounds like hell. How many hours have you and the 183 other people been on that train?

REBEKAH DODSON, TRAPPED ON TRAIN IN OAKRIDGE, OREGON (via telephone): I've been on the train for 38 hours or 40 hours. It's close to 40.

But we have passengers here that got on in Seattle, so they've been here for 50 hours. And we have crew members here that have been going on for about 30.

CAMEROTA: Oh my gosh. What have you all been doing in your 38 hours?

DODSON: To be honest, a lot of like card games, talking, sharing stories. Some guy pulled out his ukulele and put some kids to sleep. It's just been like a giant Kumbaya party.

CAMEROTA: That -- OK, that is beautiful. I mean, truly, the human spirit really rises to the occasion.

But I know that it hasn't all been Kumbaya. I mean, some passengers are having a hard time coping. What's happening with the emotional state of some of your fellow passengers?

DODSON: So, we've had some younger, like, college students that are missing college classes and their professors, especially at UCLA and U.C. Sacramento, are unwilling to work with their students. They claim they are lying about being stuck on a train. So we've had a couple of meltdowns, some panic attacks, a lot of anxiety. I happen to have a psychology degree and work with adults, and so I've been calming a lot of people down. But everybody, for the most part, has been pretty relatively stable.

CAMEROTA: Oh my gosh. Well, those professors will eat their words.

And are you -- are you -- are you getting any sleep? Is there enough food for all of you?

DODSON: We are actually down to our last meal, so breakfast is our last meal.

We did just get an engine that we've been waiting 30 hours for. It just pulled up like two seconds ago, actually. They said they still have to clear the road in front of us, but we actually have something to pull us into the station now.

And we don't have enough food --

CAMEROTA: OK, so the engine just arrived.

DODSON: -- but, yes.

CAMEROTA: So that's good news. But the track still isn't clear. There's trees -- there are fallen trees along the track, right? Have they given you any sense of how much longer you'll be trapped there?

DODSON: All that we know is they cleared nine miles of track yesterday and it took them 11 hours to clear nine miles. And then they had to go back and clear what fell after they cleared that section. So it could be another six hours, it could be another 12 before we can get 33 miles.

CAMEROTA: And that's how far you have to get to get off the train?

DODSON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Oh my gosh.

And what's the -- and now that you're out of food and you've just had your last meal, what's the plan onboard?

DODSON: Well, Amtrak said everybody eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner for today -- or yesterday. They will feed us breakfast in the morning but after that it's just -- I have no idea. We haven't had an update from Amtrak since 1:00 yesterday.

CAMEROTA: Oh my gosh.

And so, your personal story, Rebekah -- you're, as I understand it, a college professor. You're married to a disabled Marine veteran. You have two kids.

DODSON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: How's your family doing in your absence back home? DODSON: Well, I was only supposed to be gone for three days for a conference. Now, I believe, five days.

So my husband is disabled and doesn't cook. A couple of people actually saw my tweet in my hometown and brought them pizza last night.

So -- I'm trying not to cry -- sorry. Hopefully -- I can't even get home for another two days because Amtrak has canceled service until Friday, and I've canceled all my college classes, too.

CAMEROTA: Oh my gosh.

DODSON: So it's just -- this has caused a hardship on everybody on this train.

CAMEROTA: I understand and I don't mind -- I mean, obviously, we can hear how emotional you are because is it hard for you to be away in these circumstances from your family and for your family to cope with the anxiety about this?

DODSON: Right. My husband has been calling me every hour just to make sure I'm OK. He -- I'm going to tell them that we're safe, there's electricity, power, heat, you know.

I've actually been writing a novel most of the time just to keep my stress level down. So it's just been -- it's been quite an ordeal.

CAMEROTA: Well, you have new material for a new novel. I mean, I think that's the good news. You have -- you know, as an author, you can turn this -- you can spin this into gold.

Here's Amtrak's statement to CNN. "Due to worsening conditions, area road closures, and no viable way to safely transport passengers or crews via alternate transportation, we are actively working with Union Pacific to clear the right of way and get the passengers off the train. We anticipate the train will return to Eugene tomorrow morning."

[07:35:04] So that sounds like the plan -- that they're going to try to go back to Eugene.

DODSON: Yes, they're going to Eugene and then Portland. But the problem is that like 80 percent of our passengers need to be in L.A., so what do those people do when they get in Eugene with no resources for a hotel? They are stranded at the Eugene station.

CAMEROTA: Well, hopefully, Amtrak will do right by them.

Rebekah Dodson, thank you. We really appreciate talking to you and you sharing what's going on on that train for the past 38 hours. We're thinking of you all and wishing you the best, and we will check back with you to make sure that you do get going in the right direction tomorrow.

DODSON: OK, thank you very much. I appreciate it. CAMEROTA: Thank you, Rebekah.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This is off the hook. I mean, this is completely bonkers. And she was as calm as I can ever imagine a person being after being stuck on a train for 38 hours.

CAMEROTA: I guess a psychology degree comes in handy. But I also think that it's wonderful that everybody's bonding, but there is a breaking point. At some point, there is a breaking point and hopefully, they will be on the road before that breaking point happens.

BERMAN: Well, the food. Apparently, there's only one meal left.

CAMEROTA: That would be --

BERMAN: They're running out of food.

CAMEROTA: That would be a breaking point.

BERMAN: The ukulele?

CAMEROTA: That could be a breaking point.

BERMAN: I mean, who brings a ukulele on an Amtrak train? Never go on the train without a ukulele.

CAMEROTA: Yes, the lesson.

BERMAN: And here is one final message to UCLA. Apparently, these colleges not believing that their students are stuck on a train. It appears they're stuck on the train so cut them some slack.

CAMEROTA: Yes. They made need a little bit more time for that project -- OK.

BERMAN: All right.

A federal judge in Washington just rejected a challenge to the Trump administration's bump stock ban enacted after the Las Vegas massacre. And later this week, a bill for calling -- calling for universal background checks goes up for a vote in the House.

CAMEROTA: Momentum is clearly on the side of gun control advocates but a recent mass shooting in Aurora, Illinois proves that even with the toughest gun laws and the best intentions, illegal guns and those who shouldn't own them still slipped through the cracks.

So, John Avlon has an important reality check for us now -- John.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That's right, guys.

So this week, Congress is expected to take up the first standalone gun reform bill in almost two decades -- H.R.8, known as the bipartisan Background Checks Act. Now, it would make background checks apply to gun shows and other transfers from unlicensed sellers, closing a gaping loophole. And this is about as close to a consensus as you get in American politics, folks.

A Quinnipiac poll taken roughly a year ago showed that 97 percent support for this proposition -- 99 percent of Democrats, 98 percent of Independents, and 97 percent of Republicans. But that poll was taken immediately after the Parkland school massacre and popular support for gun control tends to spike after attacks.

So this graph shows that the percentage of people saying guns are the most important issue tends to fade soon after and the gun lobby knows it. They bet on it.

This bill is expected to pass the House and will likely get stalled in the Republican-controlled Senate. But even broadly popular gun control isn't a cure-all.

Let's take a closer look at one of the most recent mass shootings in America. As Gary Martin was being fired from the Henry Pratt Company in Aurora, Illinois, he opened fire. And when it was over, five of his coworkers were killed and five police officers were injured.

Now, he'd lied about a prior felony conviction for domestic violence in Mississippi 20 years before and that should have prevented him from owning a gun in the first place. But, Illinois is one of only three states that requires a license just to own a gun.

But, Martin's Mississippi conviction didn't show up in any of the databases. It was only when Martin tried to upgrade to a concealed carry permit and submitted fingerprints for it that that Mississippi felony surfaced. By that point, he already had a gun.

Now, it turns out that Illinois has a process for that very situation. The State Police is tasked with revoking the permit and taking the weapons away. But after they notified Martin his permit had been revoked there was no record of any follow-up.

And, Martin's not alone. Illinois State Police say they revoked more than 10,000 gun owners' permits in 2018. All were required to surrender their permits and explain how they disposed of the weapons.

But more than 75 percent -- about two-thirds of those permits were not returned as required by law. Only about 100 arrests were made since 2014 because of that. That means there are literally thousands of people in the state of Illinois that police know about who have guns and shouldn't.

And check out this darkly ironic twist. The record of the Mississippi conviction eventually did show up on the national database, five days after the shooting.

In a statement to CNN, the Mississippi marshal's county Circuit Clerk's office where Martin was convicted said it passed on notice of all felony convictions to the state's Supreme Court but won't give information to a federal database unless it's specifically requested. So the anatomy of the tragedy reads as follows. The national database should have contained a record of Martin's Mississippi conviction, but it didn't. Illinois should have known about it before it issued Martin the gun permit, but it didn't. And once Illinois found out about it, it should have immediately confiscated his weapon, but it didn't.

It's a reminder that commonsense gun reform is about a lot more than just writing laws. It's about enforcing those laws and giving law enforcement the tools and resources to do it.

And that's your reality check.

[07:40:00] BERMAN: And, John, you had better learn -- when you make the mistakes you better learn and make sure it doesn't happen again.

AVLON: That's right.

CAMEROTA: Thank you very much, John.

BERMAN: All right, CNN exclusively taking you somewhere Western news crews have never been before. Our Clarissa Ward shows us her 36 hours behind enemy lines with the Taliban. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right.

We have a remarkable CNN exclusive that took senior international correspondent Clarissa Ward behind enemy lines in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan. She joins us now to share her 36 hours with the Taliban. That's an astounding title to begin with. We should warn viewers that some parts of this report are pretty disturbing.

Clarissa, thanks so much for being with us.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Thanks so much, John.

You know, we thought this was really important for Americans now to have a very real look at what's going on in Afghanistan. Sixty to 70 percent of the country is either contested or under Taliban control, and with U.S.-Taliban peace talks gaining momentum in Doha there's a real sense that the Taliban thinks victory is within its grasp.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WARD (voice-over): This is what the Taliban wants you to know. Their moment is coming and they are ready for victory. This is a world you have probably never seen up close and we are some of the only Western journalists to enter it.

[07:45:07] America's enemy in Afghanistan is best known for harboring Osama bin Laden as he planned the 9/11 attacks, for its brutal repression of women, and for meting out harsh justice under a Draconian interpretation of Islamic Sharia law. We want to find out who the Taliban is today and if, after 17 years of war with the U.S., their Islamic Emirate has changed.

Our journey begins in the northern city of Mazar-e Sharif. The Taliban was forced to withdraw from here after a bitter battle in 2001. Now, they are just a few miles away.

WARD (on camera): We're heading out now to meet up with our Taliban escorts and as you can see, I'm wearing the full facial veil known as the niqab. I'm wearing it to keep as low a profile as is possible because there are no Western journalists in the areas we're headed to.

WARD (voice-over): The government controls the highway out of the city, but once you turn off the main road you are quickly in Taliban territory.

To reach our hosts, we have to cross a small river on a ferry. Billions of U.S. dollars have been poured into building up Afghanistan's infrastructure but little of that has trickled down here.

WARD (on camera): That's our escort that's there on the other side of the river.

WARD (voice-over): After months of negotiations the Taliban leadership has agreed to give Afghan filmmaker Najibullah Quraishi, myself, and producer Salma Abdelaziz extremely rare access into the group's territory. As women, we are ignored, seemingly invisible beneath the full veil that is mandatory in public.

The Taliban has allowed us to visit these areas because it wants to show that it is in control. But in our first moments --

WARD (on camera): Oh, that's a lot of helicopters. One, two, three, four, five.

WARD (voice-over): -- our escorts tell us to stop. We are now on the other side of America's war.

In recent months, the U.S. has dramatically stepped up the number of air strikes on the Taliban. The militant's flag makes us a conspicuous target but we have no choice but to push on.

Our first stop is a clinic that has been run by the Taliban since they took control of this area almost two years ago. A plaque at the door reveals it was a gift from the Americans in 2006.

Suddenly, a young girl outside is hit by a motorcycle. A boy rushes over to help her. The driver is a Taliban fighter. He slings his gun over his shoulder and wanders over, apparently unconcerned.

Life here is brutal. The girl is rushed inside, her frantic mother following behind.

WARD (on camera): Is she OK? Is she OK?

WARD (voice-over): But no one seems as shocked as we are.

The doctor gives her mother some painkillers and sends her away. After years of fighting here, he has seen much worse.

WARD (on camera): Who's in charge of the hospital? Who's managing it?

WARD (voice-over): He explained that the Taliban manages the clinic but the government pays salaries and provides medicine.

This sort of ad hoc cooperation is becoming more and more common, and there have been other changes.

WARD (on camera): So this is something you wouldn't expect to see in a clinic under the control of the Taliban. It looks like some kind of sexual health education, talking about condoms and other forms of birth control.

WARD (voice-over): Twenty-two-year-old midwife Fazila has worked under the Taliban and the Afghan government.

WARD (on camera): What has been your experience working under the Taliban here?

WARD (voice-over): "The Taliban never interfere in our work as women," she says. "They never block us from coming to the clinic."

In the waiting area, these women say it's war and poverty that makes their lives miserable.

[07:50:00] WARD (on camera): Has life under the Taliban changed now from what it was before? No?

WARD (voice-over): "We are trapped in the middle," the woman says, "and we can't do anything."

WARD (on camera): It's just so sad to see how desperate people are here. The women telling me they don't have enough food to eat, they don't have the proper medicines to treat their disabled children. All they want is peace and some improvement to their quality of life.

WARD (voice-over): It's getting late and we need to get to our accommodation. The Taliban turn off cell phone service after dark. This is when we are most vulnerable.

The next morning we are taken to a madrasa or religious school. Under Taliban rule in the 90s, girls were banned from going to school, but we find boys and girls studying.

WARD (on camera): Raise your hand if you know how to read. Ok, one, two, three -- you can read and write.

Do you know what you want to be when you grow up? A doctor? Bravo.

What's your favorite subject in school? Math -- you're smart. WARD (voice-over): Teacher Yar Mohammed splits his time between the frontlines and the classroom. His AK-47 never leaves his side. "The Emirate has instructed education departments to allow education for girls of religious studies, modern studies, science, and math," he says.

But there's a catch. Once they reach puberty girls cannot go to school with boys. And the sad reality is that few in rural areas like this see women's education as a priority.

The Taliban's focus now is on showing it can govern effectively. Across the country, the group has appointed shadow governors like Mawlavi Khaksar. For his security, Khaksar is always on the move.

When the villagers hear that he is visiting, they quickly line up to air their issues. There are disputes over money and land ownership. "Your petition will be dealt with tomorrow," Khaksar says.

Corruption is rampant in the Afghan government. The Taliban has a reputation for delivering quick, if harsh, justice. "The Islamic Emirate has laws," this man says. "It has an Islamic Sharia system in place."

Khaksar agrees to sit down with us. His bodyguard listens for security updates on the radio. We start out by asking about the Taliban's brutal tactics and the U.S. concern that they could once again offer safe haven to terrorists.

MAWLAVI KHAKSAR, TALIBAN SHADOW GOVERNOR (through translator): Whether it's the Americans or ISIS, no foreign forces will be allowed in the country once we start ruling Afghanistan.

WARD (on camera): Are there real efforts being made to stop killing civilians?

KHAKSAR: Those responsible for civilian casualties are the ones who came with their aircrafts, artillery, B-52, and heavy weaponry.

WARD (voice-over): In reality, the Taliban is responsible for thousands of civilian deaths in the last three years alone.

WARD (on camera): And what about these suicide bombings at polling stations, for example? These kill many civilians.

KHAKSAR: We deny this. This accusation is not acceptable to us.

WARD (voice-over): There are small signs that the Taliban is moving with the times.

KHAKSAR: I listen to the radio, also Facebook and other media.

WARD (on camera): You're on Facebook?

KHAKSAR: Yes.

WARD (voice-over): But it's clear that the fundamental ideology has not changed.

WARD (on camera): So if somebody is found guilty of stealing, you cut off their hand?

KHAKSAR: Yes, we implement the Sharia. We follow Sharia instruction.

WARD: And if somebody is found guilty of adultery, you will stone them to death?

KHAKSAR: Yes, the Sharia allows stoning to death.

WARD (voice-over): As we're leaving the interview, the military commander for the district arrives and a dispute breaks out about us. "They should have brought a man," one of them says.

WARD (on camera): So the issue right now is that they don't want us to walk outside because I'm a woman and they think it's inappropriate.

WARD (voice-over): We agree to follow the men at a distance, something I've never had to do in my career.

[07:55:00] The commander, Mubariz Mujahid, takes us to a nearby safe house to be interviewed privately. We are warned that political questions are off the table.

WARD (on camera): Do you want to see peace between the Taliban and America?

MUBARIZ MUJAHID, TALIBAN MILITARY COMMANDER (through translator): It would be better if this question was to the spokesperson of the Islamic Emirate.

WARD: Do you feel like the Taliban is winning the war?

MUJAHID: God willing, we are hopeful. We are supported by God.

WARD (voice-over): He wants to show off his forces for our cameras. His men are gathering just outside the village. It is exceptionally rare and dangerous for dozens of fighters to congregate in one place.

WARD (on camera): I have been coming to Afghanistan for more than 10 years. I never imagined that I would be reporting from here in the heart of Taliban territory, but we're not going to stay long here because gatherings like this can be a major target for air strikes.

WARD (voice-over): But the commander says America's military might can't keep them from victory.

MUJAHID: We are ready for any sacrifice. We are not scared of being killed. This is our holy path. We continue our Jihad.

WARD: Most of these men have been fighting U.S. forces since they were old enough to carry a gun. The question now is are they ready to put those guns down.

Our visit with the Taliban is coming to a close. It's time to leave. For a large part of Afghanistan, the prospect of a Taliban resurgence

remains horrifying, but for many here it makes little difference who is in charge. After decades of war and hardship, they'll turn to anyone who promises peace.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Oh my gosh, Clarissa, what a masterpiece of reporting. I mean, we -- what a window into this world that we would never have been able to see.

A couple of questions.

Why did you want to undertake this, and why did the Taliban agree to this? Why did they agree to being shown on CNN for all of the -- warts and all?

WARD: Yes. Well, this is something we really asked ourselves because traditionally, this is a world that's been shrouded in secrecy. I mean, they simply have not allowed any outsiders into this world.

But I think what they want to show right now is not that they've changed because we see quite clearly that fundamentally they have not changed, but that they can be more pragmatic. That they can sit at the negotiating table with the U.S. That they can cooperate in instances with hospitals and schools with the Afghan government.

That they can govern effectively in their areas. That they can control territory.

This is the kind of image that they're seeking to project, I think, to the outside world right now, although it should be viewed within the understanding, very clearly, that they think they're this close to getting the keys to the kingdom if U.S. troops withdraw. And so they're going to do and say whatever they need to in order to make sure that that happens.

BERMAN: I'd say there were differences -- small differences --

WARD: Definitely, differences.

BERMAN: -- very much to the Taliban today and Afghanistan under the Taliban in these parts than 15 years ago, to be sure.

WARD: Absolutely. I mean, I don't think those sort of fundamental principles have changed. But what's changed is they no longer want to come in and sort of stop the school and tear it down. They go in and they let the school keep running.

They've learned that by co-opting this infrastructure -- which other people are paying for, by the way, whether it's the U.S. or whether it's the Afghan government -- that they earn more popularity.

So you saw in that clinic they didn't take down the sex-ed poster.

BERMAN: I was shocked. I couldn't believe that. WARD: I was shocked, too. I really -- I thought maybe they hadn't looked closely enough, maybe they hadn't understood.

But also, that 22-year-old midwife you saw, Fazila, she was not covering herself. You know, she covered with a basic hijab but she was not wearing a niqab. She said that she was never interfered with.

And I have to say that I didn't have the sense, in this instance, that the Taliban were kind of standing behind the scenes there saying this is what we want you to say. They were allowing us to do our work pretty freely.

CAMEROTA: Obviously, this was a dangerous assignment. You are one of the most intrepid reporters we've ever known.

But what were -- were there moments there that -- it sure looked like threatening. Were there moments there that you felt that your life may be in jeopardy?

WARD: I think the main moment that really felt deeply uncomfortable and dangerous was towards the end there where you saw that show of force. You don't have large gatherings of Taliban fighters because they get whacked when that happens.

And I think you could see from the interview with the commander he was a little bit -- he had like a 100-yard gaze going on -- like he's seen too much war and he just doesn't really care. So he thought it was kind of cool and wild to stage this show of force to show the reporters how strong he is.

And by the end of it, we were literally being like OK, we want to leave now. Please, can you go away? This is dangerous. And we actually ended our trip a little bit early because there are drones all over the skies over Afghanistan and the U.S. military did not know that we were there and that we were embedded with the Taliban.

END