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Michael Cohen Begins Day 3 Of Cap Hill Testimony; Cohen Alleges Trump Committed Crimes While In Office; Pakistan To Release Indian Pilot As "Gesture For Peace"; "The Bush Years: Family. Duty. Power." Premiers Sunday At 9PM ET. Aired 10:30-11:00a ET
Aired February 28, 2019 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:30:00]
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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: All right. The president's former attorney, Michael Cohen, is back on Capitol Hill today, behind closed doors, testifying before the House Intelligence Committee.
This follows a day of explosive public testimony, Republicans getting used to the Democrats, leading these committees, and Democrats trying to determine where this Cohen testimony takes them next.
But in all the back-and-forth did we lose sight of what we really learned yesterday? Jim.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Here with us to discuss CNN Political Director, David Chalian. And David, this is a frequent phenomenon here, right? So much news comes across the transom, it's hard to take stock.
But help us take stock with how, if at all Michael Cohen's, testimony and revelations move the dial here. Does it, for instance, move the dial closer to Democrats seeking possibly impeachment of the president?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, it's a good question, Jim. I think we have to look at this two ways, a little bit more micro, sort of, what investigative threads did Michael Cohen leave behind for Democratic members of Congress to sort of pull that going forward.
Clearly, insurance for fraud, bank fraud, tax fraud, kind of allegations having nothing to do with Russia, of course, but just into potential wrongdoing that the president may, or his organization may have been engaged in. So that's sort of on the immediate investigative threats.
But your point of where we are in the in the larger picture here of Donald Trump standing after Michael Cohen delivered what was clearly damning, damning testimony yesterday. It is a sign of the times. I think that the American people got more evidence yesterday, Jim and Poppy, than at any time in the last two years that Donald Trump was likely committing a crime, a part of committing a crime as president of the United States. And yet, I am skeptical that Americans minds are going to be changed.
HARLOW: Right.
CHALIAN: The projections about Donald Trump are so locked in, and yet the country just heard more convincing evidence than ever that he actually may have committed a crime. That is the state of our politics right now --
HARLOW: Yes
CHALIAN: -- and where we are as a people.
HARLOW: And David, I think you're so right, and I wonder, is if that's why we really didn't hear the word impeachment. The "i" word from Democrats yesterday, and we haven't heard a ton of it in the aftermath.
Yes, representative, Jackie Speier, mentioned the possibility, but Democrats aren't jumping all over that following the testimony and that's you know, I wonder if that's because impeachment is a political mechanism, and they see what you see.
CHALIAN: Without a doubt, Poppy, and I think it is a really smart observation. When I heard Nancy Pelosi give remarks yesterday to reporters, and she said she hadn't been watching all day, but then she followed up by saying very clearly. I am not looking to get involved in all of this. My job is to fight the president as hard as possible on his policy positions, on is tax cuts for the wealthy, on what he's trying to do, was stripping away health care.
She went right back. She did not sound like a speaker who was trying to lead her party in the aftermath of that testimony towards impeachment.
HARLOW: Yes.
CHALIAN: She sounded like she was trying to pull them away from that.
HARLOW: You're right.
SCIUTTO: And she knows she knows that a number of the gains Democrats made in the mid-term elections were in flip districts, where relatively moderate Democrats were able to flip.
[10:35:00]
SCIUTTO: And you're a couple months into her leadership, and Democrats -- you have the wall issue, you have the Cohen testimony. Some -- a couple talking about impeachment there, but no progress on, or less progress so far on the bigger issues of what was an ambitious, ambitious Democratic agenda. Is that a danger for the Democratic Party?
CHALIAN: I doubt they're much in danger yet. I mean yesterday, they did pass in the House a gun control legislation, a big promise back on the campaign trail, but obviously that's not going to go anywhere in the Senate. I mean, I think, that'll be the story right that the House will pass big agenda items, but likely to be blocked in the Republican-controlled Senate, and not get to the President's desk.
But they'll be able to move through some of their big agenda items. But I think that the Democrats would tell you, Jim, that the shutdown over the wall allowed them to talk to some of their key items, because they were on the political winning side of that shutdown, obviously, when the president caved on that.
I do think that you are right to note that much of the Democratic majority, the reason they're in the majority is, because a lot of Republican districts were flipped. So you do have these more moderate members, but there is also a real tension with the Democratic base that wants to see every day Donald Trump be held accountable, and a portion of that base really does want to see impeachment proceedings begin.
HARLOW: Yes. It's a good point. This is, sort of, the tightrope that they're walking. David, always good to have you.
CHALIAN: Thanks guys.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HARLOW: Still ahead, Pakistan this morning, attempting to defuse rising tensions with neighbor India, as the world watches this escalating crisis between the two nuclear powers. We will explain what's going on, and the potential consequences ahead.
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[10:40:00]
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SCIUTTO: Welcome back. The nuclear talks here in Hanoi not the only nuclear standoff this morning. An attempt to ease the rising tensions between two of the world's established nuclear armed powers. The Prime Minister of Pakistan, promising to release an Indian pilot, who was captured when Pakistan says that it shot down two Indian fighter jets this week. This, after India had launched airstrikes inside Pakistani territory.
HARLOW: That's right. And the tension between the two nuclear powers has been rising this month. But, of course, there's quite a history between the two. They both control different parts of Kashmir. Each country, though, claims the entire region. Now, there's increasing pressure within both countries for leaders to take military action, and politics plays a big part of this.
Let's get straight to CNN New Delhi Bureau Chief, Nikhil Kumar. Good morning Nikhil. And, of course, you've got modi with an impending election. That's part of this, But then Pakistan's new prime minister, Imran Khan. Put it this way, which says a lot, right? "All big wars are due to miscalculation."
My question to India is, given the weapons we have. Can we afford this miscalculation? What is your read on the ground there?
NIKHIL KUMAR, CNN NEW DELHI BUREAU CHIEF: Well, Poppy, it's been very, very tense, and it's been more tense than in recent times. You know, if you go back and look at the conflicts, the skirmishes between these two countries over several years. It's not been this bad for a long, long time.
India hasn't sent jets across the line of control, the de facto border, that divides the bits of Kashmir that are controlled by Pakistan. India hasn't done that since 1971, when India and Pakistan fought a war. So this was quite an escalation.
India says that it only did so, because it was going after a training camp run by a terrorist group that it says, was behind a car bombing in the Kashmir region, where 40 Indian paramilitaries were killed on the 14th of February, Valentine's Day. That was the worst attack on Indian forces in that region in several decades since the late 1980s.
So India's saying, look, this is about going after terrorists. This is not about picking a fight with Pakistan. Pakistan, of course, is saying that they came after us. That they came across our border. They tried to breach our defenses, we pushed them back. And so, we had to retaliate.
So we have two different narratives, but at the end of the day, it just all boils down to the fact that you have two countries with nuclear weapons with a long history of animosity. And no matter how a conflict between the two of them begins, the concern is always, how will it end? Where might it lead to, because nobody wants to end up in a spiral when nuclear weapons are involved?
HARLOW: That's exactly right. Nikhil Kumar, Bureau Chief there in New Delhi, thank you very much for the reporting. Will stay all over this.
So still ahead, President Trump is on his way home right now, after walking away from the table in these nuclear negotiations with Kim Jong-un. We've learned, the president was warned weeks ago by his top advisers on this about how unlikely it was that a deal will come to fruition. Still, though, he wanted to have this meeting, what are the consequences ahead?
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[10:45:00]
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HARLOW: It is a political dynasty stretching over several decades. The Bush family gave America two presidents, governors, you name it, two first ladies. Now, a new CNN original series is giving us an inside look into the iconic family. Look at this.
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VOICE OF GEORGE BUSH SR: I would like to introduce you to my family. The fact is, I'd, be nothing without them. Our four sons, our daughter Doro. My own, Barbara Bush.
VOICE OF NARRATOR: I think it's hard to imagine any family that have been more significant to American politics.
Bush, family, going back generations, believe in public service, in helping their fellow man,. People referred from the bush fan as a dynasty. That's what it is and that's what it was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: All right. Well, that is a clip from "The Bush Years: Family, Duty and Power" that takes us into this iconic family.
[10:50:00]
HARLOW: And joining me now is Susan Page. She's the Washington Bureau Chief for "USA Today". Covered the Bush family for years. And, of course, the author of "The Matriarch Barbara Bush In The Making Of An American Dynasty". Good morning, Susan.
SUSAN PAGE, "USA TODAY" WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: Hey, good morning, Poppy.
HARLOW: I mean, we are talkig about a family. One Senator, two Governors, two Presidents, two First Ladies, all in the Bush family. And from what I have learned about her, I'm yet to read your book, it'ss on the list, but is it so much of this is because of a Barbara Bush.
PAGE: You know Barbara Bush hated the word "matriarch" and she hated the word "dynasty". But there is no doubt, I think if you look at this fairly, that she was the matriarch of a really remarkable dynasty, a political dynasty.
You know, it's also a dynasty of public service. In other ways, one of the things she was most proud about was, the way her grandchildren, have been active in all kinds of non-profit organizations that provide food to hungry kids, provide global health services, that work with Big Brothers, Big Sisters.
She was a remarkable woman, and I think, for the benefit of hindsight, we really see that more clearly.
HARLOW: Yes. Well, you know, we know I just recently interviewed Lauren Bush. Lauren, one of her grandchildren, for my podcast interview, hasn't been released yet, but she talked so much about that. About the impact that Barbara Bush had on all of them, and that she was really, like, the power, and the one you don't cross, and really led the family in so many ways.
It was, you know, very eye-opening. In terms of the impact on Americans politics, what do you believe the legacy of the Bush family is?
PAGE: You some things -- you can't really assess a legacy until some time has passed. A little time has passed now since the two Bushes left at the White House. I think there's some nostalgia for the Bushes. I think the Trump era has made some people think that the tradition of honor and duty and service is something pretty remarkable for the Bushes.
And I think that is particularly ture for the elder Bush, who, of course, was defeated in his bid for a second term. That was a crushing defeat for George HW Bush. You look back now, and you see how he managed so skillfully, the first Gulf War, and the end of the Cold War.
HARLOW: Yes.
PAGE: And you think that that we were lucky to have him in the White House at that period.
HARLOW: That's right. What about how close-knit the family was, and has remained? I know a lot of that has also been attributed to Barbara Bush.
PAGE: Yes. You know they called her the enforcer, and she was the enforcer. You know she was the one who made sure you picked up your towels at Kennebunkport. She was the one that I remembered -- George P Bush, who's now a state-wide elected official in Texas, told me he spent a summer at the White House when they were at the White House. He was just a kid. He was a teenager.
She insisted that he volunteer during that summer at a feeding program for homeless people. They had to go there once a week and work, because hat was part of what she thought was important.
You know, a family of privilege to be - sure, an affluent family, went to great schools. You know had a big name, but she really had, I think, a sense that you had to give back. It wasn't enough to live off your name, or to have not a life that gave back to others.
HARLOW: The quote that I thought of when, of course, former President George HW Bush, passed was what he said about his life, and that he, you know, he climbed the highest mountain, I'm paraphrasing here, but all of it pales in comparison to being married to Barbara Bush. And it's that true love story and how much she did for all of them. It's just remarkable.
Susan, look forward to reading the book. Thank you for shining a light on what we're going to see here in this series. We appreciate it.
PAGE: Thank you, Poppy.
HARLOW: Of course, be sure to tune in, "The Bush Years. Family. Duty. Power" premieres Sunday night, 9:00 p.m., right here on CNN.
We'll be right back.
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[10:55:00]
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HARLOW: All right, we're back with you, Jim. You've done an amazing job working around the clock in Hanoi. I know you're getting on a plane soon heading back as the president heads back after the summit. Just give us a sense of, you know, what was most striking, and I guess how surprised you were that this whole thing fell apart.
SCIUTTO: Listen for the second time in eight months, the president of the United States flew to the other side of the world to meet face-to- face with Kim Jong-un and left without an agreement without any concessions from North Korea on denuclearization, clear ones. And without also, a timetable, or a clear path forward. What happens next?
HARLOW: Right.
SCIUTTO: There's currently no summit scheduled again, but also no lower level talks, and that leaves these negotiations in limbo after the president expended an enormous amount of presidential capital, diplomatic capital by coming here to meet with the North Korean leader.
HARLOW: I also just wonder on the human rights front, Jim, which everyone cares so much about and you've been covering so much in the wake of the death, the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. How significant it is, what the president said about who he believes when it comes to Otto Warmbier.
SCIUTTO: It would be very easy for an American president to say a young American was taken hostage by North Korea, effectively died in North Korean custody and we, as a country and me as a president, we will hold them to account. That's an easy thing to say. The president did not say it. He said he takes Kim's word.
HARLOW: Yes. It was striking. Jim, great coverage. We'll see you back here in the chair next to me on Monday.
Thank you all for being with us. I'm Poppy Harlow.
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