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New Day
Trump And Kim Jong-un Wrapped Up Their Second Summit Without An Agreement; The President Called Michael Cohen A Liar; North Korea Insisted On U.S. Lifting All Economic Sanctions; Trump Believes Kim Jong-un Had Nothing To Do With What Happened To Otto Warmbier; Reverberations From This Claim That Trump Was Involved With Crimes While Being President; During Cohen's Testimony He Seemed Really Intent On Hurting President Trump; Republicans Form A "Protecting" Wall Around Trump Maybe Not Defending Him But Tearing Cohen Down. Aired 7-7:30a ET
Aired February 28, 2019 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:00:00]
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: New Day continues right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP: We thought it wasn't a good thing to be signing anything.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, HOST: President Trump and Kim Jong-un wrapped up their second summit without any agreement.
MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I wish we could have gotten a little bit further. But I am very optimistic.
UNKNOWN FEMALE: I think he should get some credit for being willing to walk away here.
TRUMP: He lied a lot. Having a fake hearing like that in the middle of this very important summit is really a terrible thing.
REPORTER: Do you believe that the president committed a crime while in office?
ELIJAH CUMMINGS, HOUSE OVERSIGHT CHAIRMAN: It appears that he did.
REP. JORDAN: How long did you work in the White House?
MICHAEL COHEN: I never worked in the White House.
REP. JORDAN: That's the point isn't it, Mr. Cohen?
ANNOUNCER: This is New Day, with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: All right, good morning everyone. We do have some breaking news. Welcome to your New Day. We begin with breaking news because a lot has happened overnight.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.
CAMEROTA: So if you are just waking up, President Trump is now on his way back to the U.S. early and empty handed after nuclear talks with Kim Jong-un ended abruptly with no agreement.
The President and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo insist that real progress was made, but Mr. Trump says the talks broke down when North Korea insisted that all sanctions be lifted. President Trump says quote, "sometimes you just have to walk away," end quote from the negotiating able. And he says that's exactly what he did.
BERMAN: Also overnight for the first time, President Trump weighed in on Michael Cohen's testimony on Capitol Hill, those dramatic moments. The President called Michael Cohen a liar. And he blasted democrats for holding the hearing at all while the president was meeting with the leader of North Korea.
In hours of that dramatic testimony, Cohen described the president's role in illegal hush money payoffs to former adult film actress Stormy Daniels. Want to begin with CNN's Michelle Kosinski who is live in Vietnam with the details of how this all fell apart overnight, Michelle.
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, SR. DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John. One day ago, it seemed like to have come put here and done all of this, sorely both sides were right at the point to walk away with something, right?
The only question seemed what's it going to be? Well now we know the surprise ending to this very Trumpion cliffhanger is nothing.
This is proof that President Trump's insistence on this top down approach to this extremely complicated decade long problem is not going to necessarily work out the way he expects. They could not even agree on the very definition of denuclearization. Couldn't even finish the summit and have lunch together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOSINSKI: The president traveled 8,000 miles and comes away empty handed. A Vietnam summit with Kim Jong-un quickly turned south leaving the president with no distraction from Michael Cohen's damaging testimony.
TRUMP: They wanted the sanctions lifted, in their entirety. And we couldn't do that. It was a very productive two days, but sometimes you have to walk.
POMPEO: I wish we could have gotten a little bit further. But I'm -- I'm very optimistic.
KOSINSKI: There were good signs early; Kim Jong-un keeping denuclearization on the table.
KIM JONG-UN, SUPREME LEADER OF NORTH KOREA (through translator): If I am not willing to do that, I wouldn't be right now.
KOSINSKI: But after many pleasantries on camera, talks in private did not lead t any breakthrough.
A working lunch and singing ceremony that had been on the schedule never happened, an abrupt end to talks overnight, with the White House saying, "No agreement was reached at this time, but their respective teams look forward to meeting in the future."
The president did make one stunning headline letting Kim off the hook for the death of American hostage Otto Warmbier.
TRUMP: Those prisons are rough. They are rough places. He tells me that he didn't know about it, and I will take him at his word.
KOSINSKI: The summit itself largely overshadowed by testimony back home.
COHEN: I know what Mr. Trump is. He is a racist, he is a conman, and he is a cheat.
KOSINSKI: Explosive allegations by Trump's long time lawyer and fixer Michael Cohen, the president responding this morning slamming the democrats for holding the hearing while he was here at the summit.
TRUMP: But it was pretty shameful. He lied a lot, but it was very interesting because he didn't lie about one thing, he said, "no collision with the Russian hoax."
KOSINSKI: Cohen's testimony upstaged any kind of progress the self described deal maker hoped to gain in his second summit with the North Korean leader. The U.S. was hoping for more concrete steps from (inaudible) towards a deal that is verifiable and enforceable, only time will tell now whether the future holds more of this--
TRUMP: Rocket man is on a suicide mission for himself.
KOSINSKI: Or this.
TRUMP: I'd much rather do it right than do it fast.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOSINSKI: So yes, Trump did walk away from what could have been a bad deal. And no, he didn't give up anything as many thought he did after the last summit when he suddenly canceled joint military exercises with South Korea.
[07:05:00]
But that is a very low bar for something positive to come out of this. But at least the president says that both sides will keep on talking and he says North Korea has promised not to conduct anymore missile or nuclear tests, Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: OK, Michelle. Thank you very much for setting the table for us, no pun intended. Joining us now from Vietnam we have Jim Sciutto, CNN chief national security correspondent.
And Jim, what I'm referring to is because the able was set for the lunch in and because reporters were waiting for the signing ceremony, clearly the -- at least on the U.S. side something went wrong. I mean, something -- the fact that they ended this abruptly. And I'm just wondering if you can give us the back story of how it unraveled.
JIM SCIUTTO, CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, the president made clear that the deciding issue here was that North Korea insisted on the lifting of all U.S. economic sanctions on North Korea in exchange for giving up just one nuclear facility of many there. And that was not good enough for the U.S.
And listen, we are now entered -- we've entered a spin zone here. The president said he walked away but it was a friendly walk away from the table. You have the South Koreans, you'll probably hear from North Korea soon; you have China all saying well, the talks were constructive, we look forward to the next opportunity.
But the fact is the president flew across the planet to the other side of the world for a second time in less than a year to be face to face with the North Korean leader and left with no discernable agreement.
And also, and this is important, no clear path as to how they bring the two sides closer together, because if North Korea is sticking to a maximalist position, the lifting of all sanctions and the U.S. is still demanding the complete denuclearization of North Korea, which North Korea is not offering.
The question then remains, how do they get closer? Bring those two positions closer. And for the president who put a lot on the line here, put his -- totted his personal relationship as definitive. This is a second time he has walked away without that personal relationship barring fruit in these important negotiations.
CAMEROTA: Well--
SCIUTTO: And it's hard to see that as anything but a setback for this president.
CAMEROTA: I mean in terms of your question of how to bring these two closer, we may have the answer for you. This is just crossing now; our reporting is that President Donald Trump has just asked South Korean President Moon Jae-in to play a role in mediating dialogue between Kim Jong-un and him.
This was during a 25 minute phone call. So, he has asked him to intervene, that's interesting. I mean that -- I think that's very interesting, because obviously President Trump who prides himself on having such a warm relationship with Kim Jong-un and being a deal maker is saying that he needs some help from South Korea's president.
SCIUTTO: It is. He is but let's be frank here, I mean South Korea would have to be part of any agreement between the North and the U.S. And it's been something of a question mark as to why South Korea was not more involved. I mean, you had South Korea releasing a statement after the collapse of these talks saying that they were perplexed.
They clearly had not been kept abreast of thing. And a similar result at the last summit in Singapore when the president summarily suspended U.S. South Korea military exercises apparently without consulting South Korea.
So now, perhaps somewhat belatedly brining South Korea in to a more central role here should've already been the case you could argue. But it also shows a president who might be acknowledging that he needs help. That the personal relationship, the art of the deal not enough to get the two sides close and to get to the U.S. to where it wants to be.
CAMEROTA: Jim, I just want to touch on what Michelle Kosinski reported and that is the Otto Warmbier episode--
SCIUTTO: Yes.
CAMEROTA: -- where he was -- President Trump was asked if he confronted Kim Jong-un and he said that he believes that Kim Jong-un didn't know anything about what happened to Otto Warmbier where he was killed obviously or at least in to a vegetative state in custody. And I'm just wondering if that's plausible.
SCIUTTO: Listen, an American kid, a 20 something was taken hostage by North Korea, sent home brain-dead where he soon after died. North Korea is a serial abuser of human rights. It kills decedents at home and abroad in numerous ways.
And for a U.S. president with the death of an American, a young American to not hold the North Korean leader accountable is remarkable. And remember, this is not the first time this president has done that.
Today he said he talked Kim's word, takes him at his word that he is not responsible. He said in Helsinki that he takes Vladimir Putin's word that Russia did not interfere in the election despite U.S. intelligence assessments the opposite of that.
With the murder -- a brutal murder of Jamal Khashoggi the journalist, the President again over the assessment of the U.S. intelligence community. And in fact said he takes MBS's word. This is a pattern with this President.
[07:10:00]
It's a disturbing pattern with this president that has received both democratic and republican outrage. And it was truly a remarkable moment today to watch.
CAMEROTA: Jim Sciutto, thank you very much for all of the reporting from Hanoi for us.
SCIUTTO: Thank you.
BERMAN: All right, the other big news this morning, the reverberations from this claim, Donald Trump was involved with crimes while being president of the United States. So, if you missed the dramatic seven hours of testimony from Michael Cohen yesterday, first of all, shame on you.
Secondly, that was the major take away. Cohen says the president was involved in crimes including while in office. Also, Cohen said there are investigations going on we may not even know about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KRISHNAMOORTHI, (D) ILLINOIS: Is there nay other wrong doing or illegal act that you are aware of regarding Donald Trump that we haven't yet discussed today?
COHEN: Yes. And again, those are part of the investigation that's currently being looked at by the southern district of New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: All right, joining us Nia-Malika Henderson, CNN senior political reporter. David Gregory, our senior political analyst, Elie Honig, former federal prosecutor and Jeffrey Toobin, chief legal analyst.
And Jeffrey, I don't want to lose sight of the big picture here. Michael Cohen said that Donald Trump has committed crimes while president of the United States.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: And he has corroboration. I mean that I think yes, there we go. I mean the--
BERMAN: Yes.
TOOBIN: -- check. And we're going to have to decide as a country whether that matters or not. I mean, I doubt the polls will shift. But Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to a campaign finance violation. A criminal campaign finance violation involving the payments to Stormy Daniels.
And he said I did it entirely at the instigation of Donald Trump. I kept him posted every step of the way. And he paid me back. There is one of the 11 checks he said he got. One of the other checks was signed by Allen Weisselberg, the CFO of The Trump Organization and Donald Trump Jr.
There is plenty of ground to continue this investigation, notably by asking Weisselberg and Donald Trump Jr. about this whole affair. But and of course what's so significant about this check is that it's dated August 2017 when the -- when Donald Trump is president.
That's now out there in the world and the country is going to have to decide whether it cares or not, whether he should be prosecuted or not. And I think that's a very big deal.
CAMEROTA: David Gregory, your big take away from the seven hours? DAVID GREGORY, SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: I think that Cohan played in to the partisan divide about Trump. I think his statement that was so compelling was also incredibly personal. He really seemed intent on hurting President Trump. You saw his own wounds in his life.
And so, he played in to the partisanship. There were a lot of goutiest attacks on the president that I think is a danger for democrats because I think it detracts from some of the notable things he said about ongoing investigations. But I think there is no question that the earthquake nature of this testimony.
The president's fixer, the guy that said he'd take a bullet for him; the one who Donald Trump kept so close for a decade was now turning on him in such dramatic fashion I think kicks up the impeachment machine dramatically on the left.
And we have to see Cohen as perhaps the opening public act of whatever the special prosecutor is going to do. You don't have to take Cohen's word for all of this. The corroboration of the check and other aspects of his testimony could be corroborated, could be much fuller in time with the special prosecutor.
BERMAN: Some, some. I mean I think what's so interesting about what Michael Cohen did yesterday was raise the possibility and point to evidence of crimes that are outside the realm of Robert Mueller. They're part of the southern district of New York's investigation.
They're part of the New York attorney general's investigation. Now we learn there's an investigation from Washington D.C. as well. Michael Cohen opened the door to this world that will continue beyond next week or the week after when the Mueller report comes out.
Including outing a lot of pressure I think on democrats in the House or Representatives about what they will do. If we have the south from Elijah Cummings about crimes being committed, whether he thinks there were crimes. I want to play that, because I think this is important.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you believe that the president committed a crime while in office?
CUMMINGS: Based on what -- looking at the text and listening to Mr. Cohan, it appears that he did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So Nia, the question is, what are you going to do about it?
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, SR. POLITICAL REPORTER: I think that's a big question. And it's certainly going to be asked by a lot of sort of grassroots progressive democrats, what are the democrats in the house going to do? Are they going to move forward with impeachment hearings?
[07:15:00] All that we've heard from Nancy Pelosi and the leadership is essentially let this process play out.
They feel like at this point even if something comes up in the house, it'll be blocked (ph) in the senate because it's a controlled by the GOP. And you saw yesterday a real wall, protecting wall that the republicans were forming around this president. Not necessarily defending him, but certainty tearing down Cohen.
So, this idea of impeachment I think will be floated around. And it has been from a few democrats in congress and certainly a few more of the new folks in congress. But the idea that this is something that is going to happen and happen quickly is unlikely.
But you did see some of those freshmen democrats start to lay the ground work for other places to look. The SDNY investigations that are going on, AOC tried to get at this idea of whether or not there is tax fraud, whether or not there is insurance fraud whether or not Donald Trump was deflating his assets as well.
And you had Michael Cohen there being very forthcoming about where a congress should look going forward, listing names of people they should call up. At some point, AOC asked about where is this treasure trove of information that David Pecker at some point had that Michael Cohen and Donald Trump were so worried about.
Does that still exist? And you heard Cohen there say he wasn't sure but the place to look would be Pecker. So, lots of further ground work I think was laid. And we'll see where democrats go on it.
CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean, the stuff that came out in open court yesterday does sound like as Nia was saying tax fraud, bank fraud, the deutsche bank stuff. I mean, Michael Cohen is presenting financial statements that have I guess previously not been seen.
Defrauding a charity, the Trump Foundation where Michael Cohen testified that he did this sketchy sort of straw donor thing where he built the charity of money to but a portrait of the president, campaign finance violations. So, is the president in more legal jeopardy today than he was on Tuesday?
ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely yes, Alisyn. But one of the big take away for me from yesterday is how many new avenues have opened up? How many doors have opened up? And there needs to be specific follow-up.
And I would bestow the honorary prosecutor of the day award on Representative Ocasio-Cortez because I thought she did a great job of asking specific targeted strategic follow-up questions on the bank fraud issue that you have mentioned.
Who else was involved? What other documents? Who else should we speaking to? And I have a whole list of things that I would offer up that need to be followed up on. One other example, the testimony about the Wiki Leaks conversation that Cohen said he overheard. That's hugely important if it can be corroborated. I'd get that phone record.
Did Roger Stone make a phone calla round the time that Cohen described in July 2016? I talked to the secretary who people have identified as Rhona Graff. She apparently was there, put the call through. So, there's a lot of follow-up that needs to be. A lot of new doors have opened.
GREGORY: A lot of this raises--
TOOBIN: Can I give you--
GREGORY: Go ahead, Jeffrey.
TOOBIN: The one example who which will give us a good signal of what the House of Representatives is going to do or not do. Allen Weisselberg, his name was mentioned over and over again as someone who knew about all of these shady financial transactions, the current CFO of The Trump Organization.
What is the House of Representatives, the oversight committee going to? Are they going to interview him? Are they going to subpoena him? Are they going to give him immunity if he take the fifth. I mean that is a very specific question that will really give us a good signal of where this investigation is going or not going.
BERMAN: David.
GREGORY: Well, I just want to out on the political hat here for a second, because all of this discussion about what could be waiting (ph) legal issues in terms of where the investigation could go beyond Mueller could also play to President Trump's strength.
I mean, I said yesterday that Michael Cohen had serious credibility problems but he was utterly believable. But on some of these matters, he doesn't actually give you much with regard to the Russia investigation.
So, when the president stands up and says well, there's nothing on Russia collision. This image of democrats going down these new avenues could also strengthen the president politically, because they look like they're looking everywhere for possible misconduct by the president for some grounds for impeachment.
And I do think that all of the behavior on the part of republicans which was established here is just being about going after Cohan and not defending Trump--
BERMAN: Right.
GREGORY: -- still had an audience. A very important audience out there for folks who think this is overkill.
BERMAN: All right, we're going to -- let's raise that question. Why did any of the republicans on that committee make any effort at all to defend the actions of President Trump? We'll discuss that and much more about this testimony next. CAMEROTA: Thanks guys, much more coming up.
BERMAN: I they're--
CAMEROTA: I think you just said that.
BERMAN: I think they're back (ph).
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:20:00]
CAMEROTA: Republican lawmakers did not seem to be buying what Michael Cohen was saying. And they came up with their own motivation for why Michael Cohen might have turned against President Trump. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JIM JORDAN, R-OH: How long did you work in the White House.
COHEN: I never worked in the White House.
REP. JORDAN: And that's the point, isn't it Mr. Cohen?
COHEN: No, sir.
REP. JORDAN: Yes it is.
COHEN: No it's not, sir.
REP. JORDAN: You wanted to work in the White House.
COHEN: No, sir.
REP. JORDAN: You didn't get brought to the dance.
COHEN: Sir--
REP. JORDAN: And now--
COHEN: I was extremely proud to be a personal attorney to the President of the United States of America. I did not want to go to the White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: All right, we're back with Nia-Malika Henderson, David Gregory, Elie Honig, Jeffrey Toobin. So, Nia-Malika, there's been a lot of talk about how our reporters -- there's lots of reporting that he did want to go to the White House.
That was just a strange sort of uncomfortable exchange to watch. Why didn't Michael Cohen say yes, I was very interested in that but that has nothing to do with why I'm coming clean now.
HENDERSON: Yes, I mean that was interesting.
[07:25:00]
At some point, he clearly did want to go to the White House, all the reporting shows that he was maybe lobbying for chief of staff. But it also seems likely that at some point he realized that he could make much more money outside of the White House, right? If he's able to still access it.
And in some ways, it seems like that's exactly what he did that he was going to have a much more beneficial -- finically beneficial life outside the White House. That seems to be maybe something that he realized.
He did mention this idea that at some point that he had a memo that he gave to the White House basically explaining why he should outside of the White House. I don't know if that actually exist. Again, he was under a lot of pressure there to tell the truth so I imagine that there is some sort of memo there.
But you did have basically the republicans saying he was sort of a spurred ex-employee, right? And that was the whole motivation for this. I mean really the motivation was law enforcement, right, coming down rating his offices and seizing documents and computers and all sorts of things.
But that's certainly republican talking point that he is like Andy McCabe. He is like Jim Comey. All of these people who've been spurned by thus White House and now have turned against him.
BERMAN: I have to say, one of the things that everyone seemed to agree with yesterday including Michael Cohen is that he was a liar, and has lied before. That was agreed to by everybody. What was so notable to me, Jeffrey, was that I don't remember a single republican saying the president is not a liar.
No one defended the president. The republicans didn't say no, no, the president didn't do this. The president didn't commit campaign finance violations. He didn't break the law.
TOOBIN: Well, I mean the republicans obviously had a group strategy which was to trash Michael Cohen, but not to defend any of the individual charges that he made. I mean, you did not hear one republican say well of course the president didn't commit campaign finance violations, obstruction of justice, bank fraud, insurance fraud.
No one even addressed that. And it is just indicative of I always quote former speaker John Banner, there is no more Republican Party; there is only the Trump party now. That they follow whatever Trump's line is.
And the line of the day was attack Michael Cohen, but don't engage on the substance of any of these charges. And that's what -- that's what every single one of them did (inaudible).
BERMAN: But is it possible there is no defense to them/ Is that an admission that they have nothing to say on that?
TOOBIN: I don't think necessarily there is no defense. I mean, I think there is a defense on all of these charges. But the line of the day was we're just going to attack Michael Cohen and not engage on the charges because they are difficult to defend, though I think not impossible.
GREGORY: But it was ironic yesterday that they spent all of this time, Jim Jordan with his jacket off the whole time attacking his credibility, saying you couldn't him, that he was a liar.
And yet Michael Cohen in numerous instances said some things that were very helpful to President Trump completely dismissing some of the stories out there whether he had taken a trip to (inaudible) to confer with the Russian officials.
Questions about a tape with allegations between the president and his wife on an elevator, and on and on and on there were some of these areas where Cohen dismissed it.
And as Jeffrey made the point yesterday even on the idea that he had his suspicions about Russia collision, it was pretty thin, a pretty weak case overhearing Donald Trump Jr. say something to his father that later on he thought could be that Trump Tower meeting with a lawyer to get dirt on Hilary Clinton.
So, in all of these ways, they were knocking him down and yet e was doing some things that were actually helpful to the president's case.
CAMEROTA: Elie, there was one moment that I don't think has gotten enough attention. And I thought it was very sort of notable. And it was in his closing -- in Michael Cohen's closing statement where he said what he fears for the country.
Where he said what he -- why he's motivated to speak out and what he most fears. Listen to this.
HENDERSON: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN: Given my experience working for Mr. Trump, I fear that is he loses the election in 2020, that there will never be a peaceful transition of power.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: I consider that a big headline, from what he knows about how Donald Trump likes power and likes winning that he fears what would happen if Donald Trump were to lose in 2020.
HONIG: Yes, it's certainly alarming even at the prospect of that. It's speculation of course but as you said, Michael Cohen knows Donald Trump very well.
And I think it was so interesting further to David's point to see the members of the committee grappling with the question of what do we do with the truthfulness of this person who's an admitted liar.
And what we saw playing out is something that you see playing out all the time in criminal trials where cooperating witnesses testify. Typically what prosecutors say is look, the cooperator gave you everything he knows...
[07:30:00]
