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"New York Times" Says Trump Demanded Kushner Get Top-Secret Clearance; Chris Christie Says SDNY May Build A Case to Indict Trump After Office; Washington Governor Joins Race and Puts Priority on Climate Change; United States Backed Forces Began Last Battle Against ISIS in Syria. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired March 01, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: It is Friday. You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me. As the senior adviser to President Trump, his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, is privy to the nation's most sensitive, most classified secrets. Secrets that are only available to him. Thanks to a top-secret security clearance and despite concerns from intel officials and even some White House security staffers, Kushner was able to get that clearance with the help from his father-in-law. That is according to the "New York Times" today which reports that the President ignored the warnings and ordered the top-secret clearance be given any way. The report adds that his demand bothered former Chief-Of-Staff John Kelly and others so much so, that they actually wrote internal memos about it at the time, but in recent weeks, both the President and his daughter Ivanka, who keep in mind is married to Jared Kushner have denied there was any influence from the top.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you tell anyone in the White House to overrule security officials --
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think I have the authority to do that. I'm not sure I do. I wouldn't -- I wouldn't do it.
IVANKA TRUMP, DAUGHTER OF THE PRESIDENT: The President had no involvement pertaining to my clearance or my husband's clearance, zero.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What were the problems early on?
IVANKA TRUMP: There weren't any.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, no special treatment?
IVANKA: No.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: And Abbey Lowell, Kushner's attorney, was way ahead of both of them, here's what he told CNN last year, when his client's interim top-secret clearance was downgraded and then restored. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Who made the decision to restore his security clearance? How did that happen?
ABBEY LOWELL, KUSHNER'S ATTORNEY: The intelligence community and the FBI. It happened in the normal course, it happened the way it happens for thousands of people. There was nobody in the political process that had anything to do with it. There was nobody who pressured it. It was just done the normal, regular way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Asha Rangappa is a legal and national security analysis and Bradley Moss is an attorney who specializes in security clearance law. Welcome to both of you. Let's start Asha with you, Abby Lowell defended the process saying it was handled with no pressure from anyone. If all was normal and there was no pressure, then why all the lies?
ASHA RANGAPPA, CNN LEGAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Absolutely, Brooke. Look, let's get to the heart of the matter. Security clearances are asking the question, can this person be trusted with sensitive information and we need to be clear that Jared Kushner in particular had access to very sensitive information, even as an FBI agent, I could only see information pertaining to my cases. He can arguably see anything that he wants, and so not only are we looking at the concerns that were raised about his financial issues and foreign influence, but the very fact that all of these people are lying, the deception itself indicates a lack of candor and a lack of trustworthiness on its face and I think that right there is, you know, validates what the underlying concerns were about giving them these clearances.
BALDWIN: I want to ask you about why there would have been concerns but Bradley to you. 30,000-foot view, the security clearance process in and of itself, how is it conducted? Who would get involved if there was an issue? And how rare is it that the President himself would weigh in and grant one himself?
BRADLEY MOSS, ATTORNEY WHO SPECIALIZES IN SECURITY CLEARANCE LAW: Well, let's be clear. The President -- no President in the modern history of clearances which date back to Eisenhower has to my knowledge ever intervened the way this President has done so, put that aside. The clearance process is basic. You filled out security paper work. It covers everything of your life for the last seven to ten years, certain aspects are for the entirety of your life. You feel out issues with respect to your credit report and criminal history. They interview people your friends and neighbors, former employers to get a sense of your background. Concerns brought up in Jared Kushner's case, extensive foreign financial connections, extensive foreign government contacts, potential personal conduct concerns, how he handled himself in the transition, when he was offering to the Russian government offering communications. Those --
BALDWIN: So, who would see all of that? Who would flag that and say, whoa, whoa, whoa, would that be the White House general counsel, would that be someone in justice? Who is that?
MOSS: The initial investigation would have been run by the FBI. As far as we understand, they caught some of these concerns. They brought them to the White House Security office and the White House Counsel's office which makes the ultimate determination for Kushner's top-secret clearance. We know that Don McGahn said no, John Kelly said no.
[14:05:00] The security adjudicators said no and then all of a sudden, they were overruled by Carl Kline who is the newly appointed head of that security office. What exactly happened, what communications there were between the President and carl is what's going to be investigated now by Congress?
BALDWIN: OK. To your point on this potential for influence, Asha, back in 2017 there are these two career White House security specialists who rejected Kushner's top-secret application. After this FBI background check, raised concerns, right, about potential foreign influence. What would the influence look like? And why would the agency think Kushner could be susceptible?
RANGAPPA: So, problems or complications and foreign influence are the two most common issues that are raised for denying or delaying security clearances and the concern here is that you don't want someone who has access and is also vulnerable to be in a position with sensitive information. Foreign countries, particularly their intelligence services, could either through enticements or coercion be able to manipulate someone wittingly or unwittingly into compromising, you know, sensitive information and if someone is in a position to do that and vulnerable to that you don't want them to have access. That would be the concern here and it would have had to have been quite apparent for them to take that step of saying no to a Presidential staff member who clearly would otherwise really need this information. That bar would have been pretty high for them to say no.
BALDWIN: Also as this whole story has come out, Bradley, it struck me as we've heard of others taking notes Mr. McCabe or Comey, you have this former chief-of-staff, John Kelly, taking these notes after being alarmed by the President's demands as it pertains to his son-in-law's national security, does that surprise you that they were doing that?
MOSS: Not at all. Everybody, whether it's the career people like Comey and McCabe and all those individuals at the Justice Department or if it's John Kelly, everybody knows that this President's trampling over various institutional norms and customs. A lot of it falls within the President's discretionary authority. He can grant Jared Kushner any access he wants, but there are processes and patrols that are supposed to be adhered to make sure these decisions are based on merit not on political reasons or nepotism. That's why you're seeing these people document everything.
BALDWIN: Guys, thank you so much.
And then, there's all of this from Chris Christie who along with being a former Republican governor is also a former federal prosecutor and so Christie tells Chris Cuomo he is certain that the Southern District of New York is building a case to indict Trump once he leaves office. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CHRISTIE, FORMER REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR, NEW JERSEY: What they're doing, I'm confident, is building a case for two things, one, to go after those around the President who may have committed crimes and, two, to build a case, if they have one, I don't think they have one at the moment, but if they were -- they're trying to build one against the President for when he leaves office. Statute of limitations on most of this stuff my guess is would not run.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Elie Honig was with SDNY and so, do you agree with Governor Christie.
ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I agree in part and disagree in part with my former governor from New Jersey.
BALDWIN: Talk to me about that.
HONIG: I agree that Governor Christie has addressed the question of where's the accountability coming from. People do not like that you cannot indict a sitting President. What can be done? What he said. He can be indicted when he's out of office. People around him need to be investigated. If someone committed a crime with the President, it doesn't mean that person gets a free pass. It also to me underscores the importance of impeachment proceedings in the battle we'll see over the Mueller report. If you cannot indict, the only remaining remedy is impeachment. It's all the more important that Congress get that information. I agree on the notion of accountability. I respectfully disagree with the conjecture by Governor Christie that the Southern District does not have a case as of right now based only on what we know and we don't know everything the Southern District knows on the campaign finance violation, we have Michael Cohen's testimony, we have Allen Weisselberg, the CFO who was involved in this, we've got the tape where Michael Cohen's talking about this project with Donald Trump and we have now a signed check. Governor Christie was an excellent aggressive prosecutor, I think he would have charged that 100 times out of 100.
BALDWIN: What would this look like depending on if he loses or if he's in office for another six years? And what about the statute of limitations?
[14:10:03] HONIG: Generally speaking, you have to charge federal crimes within five years of when they occurred. That's what people mean by the statute of limitations. There's this notion of tolling. It means stopping the clock and statutes of limitations get tolled when something beyond the control of people happen, for example, if someone's a fugitive and takes off and you can't arrest them --
BALDWIN: Or if someone is the President.
HONIG: Exactly right. Has this unique role where DOJ policy says we don't indict that person. It's likely that the statute of limitations will be paused.
BALDWIN: Sean Hannity interviewed the President last night. Let me play this clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: I was kind of dragged in a little bit into the Michael Cohen issue. I interviewed him many times with you on TV. He was never my attorney. He did apologize to me for his attorney saying that in court and but I can tell you personally he said to me at least a dozen times that he made the decision on the payments and he didn't tell you.
TRUMP: Yes.
HANNITY: He told me personally.
TRUMP: He did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Did Hannity open himself up to a subpoena?
HONIG: He might well have. The first thing I see Sean doing is putting a defense in Trump's mouth. It was all Michael, it was Michael acting alone.
That's hard to square with the tape of Michael Cohen discussing it with Donald Trump. But he is trying to offer that up to Trump. Sean Hannity might have bought himself a subpoena with that statement. He says, Michael told me it was just him acting alone. If I'm investigating, I want to know that. If it's true, it undermines Michael Cohen's testimony. It's important to know that, it could be helpful to the defense. It is what we call Brady information. You have an obligation as a prosecutor if you find information that's helpful to a defendant to turn that over. It's one thing for Sean Hannity to say that --
BALDWIN: On television not under oath.
HONIG: It's a different thing when you're under oath and under penalty of perjury.
BALDWIN: Thank you very much.
It's already one of the toughest and largest Democratic fields ever and today yet another candidate jumping in the race for President. There's one thing, though, that makes Governor Jay Inslee different than all the rest. We'll explain that.
We are live in eastern Syria today. President Trump surprised the world when he arrived home last night. He says, 100 percent of the caliphate in eastern Syria has been taken over but word today that is not the case.
After the President defended Kim Jong-un over the death of an American, Otto Warmbier's parents fire back. Their response and rebuke directly to the President. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
[14:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: The pool of Democrats who want to challenge President Trump in 2020 just got more crowded. Washington Governor Jay Inslee just officially joined the race today. Inslee says he will make combatting climate change the center of his campaign. CNN political director David Chalian is with me, and David, my goodness keeping track of everyone. On the governor, climate change, typically a bit of a nonstarter especially for the core of the campaign, but we keep seeing evidence that, you know, millennials, young voters really, really care about it, so in the governor's case, might it work?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, you are right to note that millennials care about it. A segment of the activist based in the determine party care about it too. It is not an issue that ranks at the top of the list but you said might it work? Here's the thing, Brooke, we have a very crowded universe of Democrats running and so everyone is trying to find some niche to be able to put their candidacy in to for Governor Inslee, he says I'll be the climate change guy and at least see if I can get enough of a share of the people dedicated to that issue above all others to be able to come to my cause here and maybe give me enough of the support to actually drive through a candidacy here. It is an interesting proposition. The idea of a single-issue candidate is not one that we see normally but in a very crowded field, you got to have some differentiator and he thinks this could be it.
BALDWIN: He is like JFK to his address to Congress in the moon landing like he would be in regard to climate change. He's the first Democrat to come out and say he'll accept Super PAC cash. Bernie Sanders is boasting his small donors. How significant is this?
CHALIAN: Right. It is significant what you just said about Sanders and Warren, that their campaign is very focused on trying to juice up all those small dollar donors, but it's not clear that if a Super PAC wants to start in support of a candidacy and not -- that all these politicians will step away from that. They've made a commitment, many of them, to not take PAC money directly into their campaign but if a Super PAC were to get start that had wanted to support one of them, I don't think we would see the whole field rule that out entirely. Even Bernie Sanders back in 2016 had some Super PAC with a nurse's group in support of him despite the fact that he was a grassroots fund-raising kind of guy.
BALDWIN: Let me move on to a potential 2020 contender, Joe Biden. He's been criticized now after saying this about Vice President Mike Pence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:20:00] JOE BIDEN, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: The guy's a decent guy. Our Vice President, who stood before this group of allies and leaders and said I'm here on behalf of President Trump and there was dead silence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Actress Cynthia Nixon just ran for governor here in New York, she is gay, she called him out on Twitter and said, quote, you've just called America's most anti-LGBT elected leader a decent guy. Please consider how this falls on the ears of our community and the vice President and the former vice President responded, you're right, Cynthia. I was making a point in a foreign policy context. And all of this is happening, David Chalian, and Joe Biden, he's not even in the race and he's already facing this kind of heat.
CHALIAN: That is right, Brooke. This was a fascinating development for two reasons. He's facing some heat. Welcome to 2020 Joe Biden. If he is going to get in this race, Joe Biden is going to encounter what the modern day Democratic party base is all about and that is not necessarily been where it was before when Joe Biden was running, so this is going to be a learning curve for him as each part of his record, whether being friendly with Republicans or his former stance on criminal justice matters or Anita Hill, this is all going to come back in the modern day context of these activists demanding more purity from Joe Biden on progressive issues, but it's also fascinating that you noted, he responded on Twitter within an hour. This is a guy who has an operation around him that is ready to launch as soon as Joe Biden gives the word that he's in this, they are clearly now ready to deal with this kind of criticism from the left instantly try to assuage it, that to me shows they have an operation looking toward a campaign here.
BALDWIN: How about Beto O'Rourke? He's been discussing staff positions with Democratic operatives and if, David, if he makes an announcement in the next couple of days, how does Beto O'Rourke's jumping in affect this already crowded field of Democrats?
CHALIAN: We saw in texts in 2018 in his race against Ted Cruz, he was able to engender an enormous amount of enthusiasm in Democrats, raise a slew of money and come pretty close to trying to topple Ted Cruz. If he is able to enter this race and have that kind of enthusiasm follow him nationally and into Iowa, New Hampshire and those critical first states, he's going to be an enormous factor in this race but that's a big if. We have to see if that appeal from last cycle follows O'Rourke into a Presidential context and then he's going to have to prove himself to the voters that he is ready for primetime for this job of seeking the oval office.
BALDWIN: David Chalian, thank you very much on all things 2020.
Just a special programming note for all of you. Live from "South by Southwest" in Austin, Texas. Three CNN presidential "TOWN HALLS" back to back. Former Congressman John Delaney at 7:00, and Tulsi Gabbard at 8, and Pete Buttigieg at 9:00 p.m. Jake Tapper and Dana Bash will be moderating those on a Sunday night March 10 starting at 7 o'clock Eastern here on CNN.
Right now, a brutal battle is happening in the last piece of territory still under ISIS control in eastern Syria. We will go live to that corner of the world where U.S. officials and allies say the fight isn't over yet despite what the President just said.
And why at least one of Michael Cohen's revelations about the President's finances may put President Trump in legal jeopardy.
[14:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Right now, U.S. backed forces are beginning the battle to clear out the last is pocket in eastern Syria despite President Trump declaring hours ago that ISIS has been 100 percent defeated in Syria. CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman is still live in eastern Syria. He's been there for quite a while covering this story for us. Ben, hundreds of people were just evacuated. What can you tell us?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What I can tell you, Brooke, is that indeed ISIS does still control that very small enclave in eastern Syria. We spoke to many of those who came out somewhere between 250 and 300 people, some of them who quickly admitted that they indeed still support is, but they said that ISIS fighters are still inside that town. We spoke to soldiers who were there when the civilians were brought out. They said that they intermingled with those ISIS fighters, so, yes, it's still under the control of is. How much longer is not at all clear.
The operation began at 6:00 p.m. local time. I can hear aircraft overhead. We understand that the area is being bombed at the moment, but the battle is by no means over. In fact, last night I was with some senior Democratic force officials when this statement came out that President Trump said that 100 percent of ISIS territory had been regained and they met it with a good deal of consternation, saying, no, the battle is not over and they thought he's being rather premature at this point given that there still may be many more casualties among their men as this battle goes forward. They don't know how long it's going to take. They know that some of the most experienced and battle hardened is fighters are still inside that very small pocket of territory.
The officials say that there are no civilians left inside, although we did speak to one of the soldiers who was there when they were coming out of the town today, the last civilians and he told us that, in fact, the so-called families of ISIS martyrs insist on staying inside that last enclave and perhaps ding there.
Brooke.
