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At This Hour
N.Y. State Regulators Target the Trump Organization's Insurance Broker; Judge Wants Roger Stone to Explain Himself After Book Released Criticizing Mueller; Rep. Gregory Meeks (D) New York Discusses Oversight or Overreach of Trump; Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D) Filling Paperwork to Kickstart Impeachment of Trump; Homeland Security Secretary Grilled on Capitol Hill over Trump's Emergency Declaration, Children Separated at the Border; CBS' Explosive Interview with R. Kelly. Aired 11:30-12p ET
Aired March 06, 2019 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:30:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining me right now, CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Shan Wu, is here.
Shan, as Kara just laid out, the New York State regulator is asking for information going back a decade. What is it that they're looking for with this subpoena, do you think?
SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So they're looking for misrepresentations, fraudulent statements. The key here is they have to be material. As a prosecutor, that's what you're going to look for. I'll give you a very sophisticated legal definition on how to tell the difference. If you claim your leg hurts from a car accident and the insurance company disagreed with you, probably not material. However if they catch you out dancing at night, jumping around that's going to be material. When a valuation of an asset goes up tens of millions of dollars, that's like being caught out dancing at night.
BOLDUAN: What reaches the level of turning an insurance claim investigation into a criminal investigation?
WU: That's going to be up to the prosecutors. And although the insurance company has been open about the fact that they received the subpoena, which they're free to talk about, it's quite possible that the federal prosecutors or the state prosecutors have already issued subpoenas. Those tend to be secret and they ask the targets to keep them secret. Certainly as the report was saying, they can make a referral to the criminal prosecutors. But the prosecutors don't have to wait for referral. They're looking at this information, they heard the same testimony. They will open up something dependent and they could be doing that already.
BOLDUAN: While I have you, I want to ask you about Roger Stone. Stone is in trouble -- honestly this is bananas. Stone's in trouble once again with the judge again in his criminal case. He releases his book and in it, he calls the Special Counsel Robert Mueller crooked. Now the judge says that Stone needs to explain himself once again and explain why he thinks he is not in violation of the gag order she has set. And he has to do that by Monday. This is the second time she's hauled him into court over his public comments. We don't need to go back and talk about the Instagram posting and everything that surrounded that. When does it reach the point where this judge just simply says you've violated a court order and you're going to jail? I mean, where is the line? What is she considering?
WU: She's considering making her record carefully and certainly in the court of public opinion, I mean my opinion too is he has crossed the line. But she wants to do it by the book. She is very by the book, controls her courtroom.
BOLDUAN: For our viewers for some perspective, you have been before this judge before. You know how she operates.
WU: That is correct. I was subject to her gag order. I will say that we were much more careful about it than Roger Stone has been. She's giving his lawyers the full chance to make their record and she wants to make sure she has a proper record. Even though I have lots of rule number ones for a criminal defense, rule number one is don't surprise the judge. OK to surprise the prosecutors but don't surprise the judge. I cannot imagine why they would not have right away told her that this republication was coming out rather than trying to hide it. It makes no sense. It can only be poor legal advisor incredibly ignorant on his part to just ignore it.
BOLDUAN: On the theme of the problems and the risks of late-night dancing, dancing also on the line of, am I violating my gag order or not, is also never a good place to sit once, twice, at all.
Good to see you, Shan.
WU: Good to see you, Kate.
BOLDUAN: Thank you.
[11:34:54] Coming up, there's big pushback coming from the White House as lawmakers zero in on President Trump's inner circle. When it comes to the investigations, is this oversight or is this overreach? One top Democrat joins me, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLDUAN: It is Wednesday. That is not breaking news. How cooperative, though, is President Trump feeling today? I ask this because, on Monday, he suggested he would supply with investigators who have requested information from 81 people and entities associated with him. But yesterday, he ripped into Democrats, calling their investigations, quote, a disgrace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Essentially, what they're saying is the campaign begins, and instead of doing infrastructure, instead of doing health care, instead of doing so many things they should be doing, they want to play games.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: So in playing games, is it oversight or is it overreach?
Joining me Democratic Congressman Gregory Meeks, of New York.
Congressman, thank you for coming in.
REP. GREGORY MEEKS, (D), NEW YORK: Good to be with you.
BOLDUAN: Thank you.
President Trump says these 81 requests, it's a fishing expedition. And even some Democrats like former Obama advisor, David Axelrod, have said -- here's how David put it, "However legitimate the areas of inquiry, the wide-ranging nature of it too easily played into the witch hunt me."
Does he have a point? Do you think you could have done it a different way and been just as effective?
MEEKS: I think the president could be more Cooperative and more honest with the American people. Basically why we have to go at this in this way is he's continuing to lie. For example, when you talk about the security clearances, he said he had nothing to do with it. Then all the evidence comes out that he did have something to do with it. It's lie after lie after lie from this White House, from the date he's been in to where we are now. That's why now you've got to investigate to check to see whether the president is telling the truth or whether he's lying to the American people.
[11:40:23] BOLDUAN: When you hear from the president, when he says essentially President Obama faced divided government and he didn't respond to one document request, well, that is clearly not true and we could go through the number of documents the administration handed over. When you hear that, what are you going to do about it?
MEEKS: We're going to do our job. We have the responsibility of oversight. We are a separate branch of government. We want honesty and integrity for the American people and quite frankly for our allies around the world because he's lied to them also. So I think that we have a responsibility and we're going to live up to that responsibility. We want the facts. What's wrong? Why is it a problem with individuals in our country just to have the facts given to them? That's what we're asking for. Let's just get the facts, get it out there for the American people. Seems clear that the facts were not given to the American people during the time of the campaign, because lie after lie from the president then, seems clear that the facts do not matter to this president. When you think about what he said about Barack Obama and how he handled Hillary Clinton. Even my Republican colleagues who time after time after time went after Hillary Clinton when there was nothing there. Now, this is not revenge. This is about responding to the lies of the president, who has lied to and conned the American people.
BOLDUAN: So with that, in search of facts, one person who might have a lot of information might be a senior advisor to the president, Ivanka Trump. She's notably absent from the document request list. Do you know why?
MEEKS: No, I'm not on that committee so I don't know what the request has been and who it's to. I just know that there have been subpoenas out and you'll have to talk to the chairman of the committee in regard to that.
BOLDUAN: Does it surprise you that she's not on the list just when you look at what is being sought in the information, in all of the areas where she would have information? It seems that she would have relevant information in some of these key areas. Does it surprise you she's not on the list?
MEEKS: It does not surprise me in the fact that she would probably try to protect her father. I think what we want to find out is from individuals who might be really on the staff, some of the like former Chief of Staff Kelly, like other individuals who would be involved in the process itself, because what the reports are that individuals had recommended to deny her or not give her that access. And they had some specific reasons why they thought that. So the individual you want to hear from to understand what took place would be those individuals as opposed to someone who would simply testify to try to protect their father.
BOLDUAN: We don't know what more would be coming but do you not want to hear from Ivanka Trump just because you think she would want to protect her father?
MEEKS: I want to hear from the individuals in charge, who are responsible for giving out the security clearance and what their thought pattern was at that particular time. I think that's what's really important here.
BOLDUAN: One thing we learned this morning is freshman Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib said she is going to be filing an impeachment resolution soon to try and kickstart the impeachment proceedings. All I have heard since Democrats have taken control, especially from Democratic leader, is that that is a long way off. How is this move by Rashida Tlaib helpful?
MEEKS: Look, when you are a member of Congress, you have the right to do whatever you think is appropriate. I, Greg Meeks, believe it is a long way off. We have to see what happens with the Mueller investigation. We know the southern district is working. We've got other investigations we're looking at. To me, it's premature to go to impeachment, because what you want to also make sure is that you have all of the facts. If impeachment is upheld here, it has to be a trial other in the Senate side. So I don't want to get into something that's just a political game if there's something that is impeachable, it should be prosecutable as well as a good chance of conviction. I used to be a D.A. And I don't want to just indict someone for the sake of indicting if I know I can't convict.
BOLDUAN: Is this a political game that some of your colleagues are playing when they're already moving to impeachment now?
MEEKS: My opinion, we don't need to go to impeachment now because all of the facts are not in. It's like an indictment, as far as I'm concerned. I don't indict for the sake of indictment. Gregory Meeks doesn't. I didn't do that as a prosecutor. Once I have all of the facts, if I indict, I want to make sure I can convict also. I don't think we're there.
[11:45:12] BOLDUAN: Congressman, appreciate your time. Congressman Gregory Meeks, thank you for coming in.
MEEKS: My pleasure.
BOLDUAN: Thank you.
Coming up for us, right now Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen has been grilled on Capitol Hill all throughout the hour facing questions on the president's decision to declare a national emergency to get more money for a border wall, and also about the administration's policies that led to the separation of children from their families when they came across the border. What she said about the two migrant children who died in U.S. custody, that's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:50:10] BOLDUAN: For the first time since Democrats took over the majority in the House, Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen is it led to some 3,000 migrant children being separated at the border.
CNN's Jessica Schneider has been watching this for us.
What is the secretary saying?
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, she is answering a lot of questions, getting grilled by this committee that oversees her department and members have planned out, this is the first time she's come before the committee in nearly a year. She's getting a litany of questions here involving everything from the president's emergency declaration to build his border wall which Nielsen has defended in this hearing to of course, the family separations that sparked chaos along the border last year, but Nielsen is putting out some numbers and standing by her insistence that there's an emergency at the border and this is what she's citing. She says that customs and border protection is on track to apprehend more illegal immigrants at the southern border in the first six months of this year than in all of 2017 and that as a result of that they're on track to encounter close to one million illegal immigrants in 2019. To put that into a little bit of perspective, the last time the million mark was reached was back in 2006 and back in 2000 there have been more than that under the Clinton administration about 1.6 million arrests that were made for illegal crossings and she's getting questions for a lot of different topics and she was asked about where the investigation stands as to the death of those two children who came across the border last year. Here's what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. XOCHITL TORRES SMALL, (D), NEW MEXICO: What is the status into the investigation into the deaths of those two children and when will you release the results of those?
KIRSTJEN NIELSEN, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: So if I understand the status of the investigation right now, it's with the medical examiner, and until the medical examiner in both cases releases their final findings, our Office of Professional Responsibility and inspector general cannot complete their report. I did ask this question recently. I have not been able to ascertain from anyone when that will be done.
SMALL: Do you have any sense of a time line?
NIELSEN: I don't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: And that wasn't the only question that Secretary Nielsen couldn't exactly answer, Kate. When she was pressed by Democratic member Sheila Jackson-Lee about how many young people are still in detention, Secretary Nielsen said we have those numbers. I just don't have them right now so leading to some questions here as to how well these agencies are really keeping track of who they have under their care -- Kate?
BOLDUAN: That doesn't make sense. This is a crisis when it comes to family separation. It took a judge requiring them to come up with a number because the lawyers for the government in court couldn't even answer it and even at this point they don't have it at their fingertips is truly amazing.
SCHNEIDER: That's the problem. They couldn't answer some questions last year either and now it looks like Secretary Nielsen doesn't have those numbers yet again at this hearing.
BOLDUAN: Honestly.
Great to see you, Jessica, and thank you for watching and thank you for bringing it to us.
Coming up, R. Kelly breaking his silence in an emotional explosive interview about the charges of sex abuse he now faces. He calls the accusers flat-out liars and he says he's fighting for his life. You'll want to hear what he says. We'll bring it to you next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:57:41] BOLDUAN: For the first time since being charged with ten counts of sexual abuse singer, R. Kelly, is speaking out and it is a wild and emotional interview, telling CBS' Gayle King that he is innocent and that he is fighting for his life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
R. KELLY, SINGER: How stupid would it be for me to -- with my crazy past and what I've been through, oh, right now I just think I need to be a monster and hold girls against their will and chain them up in my basement and don't let them eat and don't let them out unless they need some shoes down the street from their uncle. I didn't do this stuff. This is not me. I'm fighting for my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) life. You all (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(SHOUTING)
GAYLE KING, CBS CORRESPONDENT: Robert --
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: I am! You all are trying to kill me! You're killing me, man! You all just don't want to believe the truth. You don't want to believe it!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: The charges against Kelly involve four alleged victims between the agency of 13 and 16 and he faces three to seven years on each of the 10 counts.
CNN's national correspondent, Sara Sidner, is following the story and following the story and doing an amazing job.
Sara, what else is Kelly saying?
SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: When you hear him say, I'm fighting for my life, he actually is. He's fighting for his life of freedom because if he is indeed convicted on all ten of those aggravated sexual abuse counts he faces up to 70 years in prison. Again, if convicted. So that is why you're hearing him become so emotional. You're also seeing a display that, you know, some of his victims have said, look, we cry, too. We cry tears for many years because we were abused by you. They have come out and said that we were sexually abused by you when we were younger. Some of you said we were physically abused by you as women when we became of age and all of that information coming out and not only in these charges because there are four women, three of whom the prosecutors say were under age at the time of the assault, but you are hearing R. Kelly say when asked what -- what do you say about all these people coming forward? He says they are lying and so that, I think, is going to be his defense going forward.
BOLDUAN: Different women that don't know each other are coming forward with these stories.
Sara, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
