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Michael Cohen Tells Congress He Never Asked For A Pardon; Sen. Tim Kaine (D) Virginia Is Interviewed About Cohen Testimony And His Proposed Bill To End Iraq And Gulf Wars; Bull Market Turns 10; Buckingham Palace Cracks Down On Online Trolls. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired March 07, 2019 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:32:38] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Sources tell CNN that Michael Cohen handed over documents he says show edits to the false written statement he delivered to Congress in 2017 about the Trump Organization's plan to build a Trump Tower in Moscow. So, what do lawmakers hope to learn from these documents?
Joining us now is Democratic Sen. Tim Kaine. He is a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee who has a fascinating bill before the Senate, which we'll get to in a moment.
You, of course, served as a lawyer for a very long time and a quite accomplished lawyer, which is why I do want to ask you about one aspect of this Michael Cohen story.
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA), MEMBER, SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Sure.
BERMAN: Michael Cohen went before Congress and offered this about the issue of pardons.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I have never asked for nor would I accept a pardon from President Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Well, his lawyer, Lanny Davis, is now telling "The Wall Street Journal", "The Washington Post", and CNN that Michael Cohen's initial attorney, Stephen Ryan, did go talk about the issue of pardons with people connected to the president there.
So, did Michael Cohen commit perjury when he said that out loud?
KAINE: You know, I have no knowledge, John, about this. And so, you know, Michael Cohen's testimony is going to be parsed pretty heavily.
What I do know is this. I do worry about this president using pardons or the potential of pardons as a way to sort of keep witnesses in line. It's almost like suborning perjury if you kind of dangle pardon power out to people so that they hopefully don't make you mad. And if you start to see this president use pardon power for people who are connected with this investigation, I think you'll see Congress erupt.
BERMAN: And I'm not the lawyer that you are, just when I hear Michael Cohen say "I never asked for a pardon" isn't the word never pretty expansive? Doesn't it mean never at all, as in not once?
KAINE: John, it sure does, but that's what Michael Cohen says and then, a current lawyer says a former lawyer said something about what Cohen did another time. That's not the same thing as like direct evidence that would suggest that he's not being truthful. It would be something that I'd think you'd want to inquire into.
BERMAN: Right.
KAINE: But, you know, the telephone game where one person says something to somebody and they repeat it, and you get down the line and it's different. Who knows, but there's something to look into.
[07:35:00] BERMAN: All right. Let me ask you about an issue which you have cared about for a long time and I've heard you talk about for a long time, which is war powers and the authorization of the use of force.
And you, along with a Republican senator are proposing revoking -- ending the authorizations for the U.S. war with Iraq -- you know, the invasion because of Kuwait, the Gulf War.
KAINE: Right.
BERMAN: And then, also, the 2002 authorization to go after Saddam Hussein.
Why now? Why do this?
KAINE: Well, John, it was interesting. We had a hearing yesterday with Ambassador Tueller, the current ambassador to Yemen who was nominated to be the ambassador of Iraq. And I said, is Iraq an ally? Is Iraq a partner? And he said, yes.
And I then said then, well, why do we still have two war authorizations enabling the president to take military action against Iraq? We should repeal them.
Here's the problem. Congress passes authorizations that are open- ended. The war is finished and then, they're sort of zombies that just float out there and space.
And if a president wants to try to use them to bootstrap new military action without going to Congress, he says, oh, Congress already authorized this.
So, Todd Young and I, of Indiana, we have a bill to repeal the two Iraq authorizations that you mentioned. We're going to have a vote next week -- a really important war powers vote in the next couple of weeks about whether to withdraw all U.S. support for Saudi activities in the Yemen Civil War.
And finally, Rand Paul and Tom Udall, also bipartisan, have a bill to start to phase out the war in Afghanistan and repeal the 2001 authorization.
Congress has finally woken up to this problem that I've been shouting about for years, which is presidents like to just do whatever they want without Congress. Congress has to take war-making powers back as the framers of the Constitution contemplated.
BERMAN: It's in the Constitution and there's no question that Congress has forfeited --
KAINE: Article One, absolutely.
BERMAN: -- its responsibility when it comes to this, again and again.
Notably, you, though, are not calling for an end to the 2001 measure. And I just want people to listen to your --
KAINE: Yes.
BERMAN: -- reasoning.
In 2001, that was Osama bin Laden. That was terrorism.
KAINE: Right.
BERMAN: And you still think there is some use for that.
KAINE: Yes. I have called for a dramatic revision of the 2001 authorization. Senator Corker and I had one last year that would have narrowed it down a lot, including specifying that no president could use it to take military action against a sovereign nation.
The White House really didn't like it. They didn't want their hands tied, so they spoke out against it and we couldn't move.
But I am still very interested in narrowing down 2001. It's been used for too long in too many places against too many groups that had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack.
However, ISIS and al Qaeda still pose a threat to the United States. I know the president wants to say there's no more threat from ISIS. That's not what our military believes.
And so I would like to draft a very narrow authorization that would be focused on ISIS and al Qaeda, and it would have much more congressional oversight over where and when that authorization is used.
BERMAN: All right, lightning round. I want two questions in less than one minute.
Number one, you're a member of a club of former vice presidential nominees for the Democratic Party. Joe Biden, "The New York Times" reports, 95 percent likely to get in. What would his entry do to the field?
KAINE: Look, he would come in with the biggest name recognition of any of the candidates, and early polling suggests that he would start in a very strong place. It is a big field and it's very early. No debates until June.
And a lot of my friends are running and a lot of them are putting good ideas on the table, and I think that's a good thing for our party.
BERMAN: All right. You are, of course, the senator from Virginia. There are a lot of people who are surprised that Gov. Northam and the entire leadership in Virginia is still in place after everything that happened -- and it wasn't even a month ago, I believe.
KAINE: Yes, last month, right.
BERMAN: Are you -- are you surprised that he's still governor?
KAINE: You know, the federal delegation -- there's nine of us who are Democrats and we kind of reached a conclusion early on that we thought both the governor and the lieutenant governor had lost confidence in their abilities and should step aside. But we knew when we reached that conclusion it was their call to make, so we offered that as our belief about what should happen. But, it's their call to make.
BERMAN: All right, Sen. Tim Kaine. You still feel that they should go, though?
KAINE: I haven't changed my opinion, yes. I haven't changed my opinion.
BERMAN: Senator Tim Kaine, thank you for being with us today.
KAINE: All right, thanks.
BERMAN: Appreciate it -- Alisyn.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, John.
Wall Street has been on a bull market run for a long time. How much longer can it last? Christine Romans brings her crystal ball, next.
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[07:43:24] CAMEROTA: All right, it's time for "CNN Business Now."
Ten years ago this week, stocks were crashing, the economy was failing, and investors were afraid of what was next. Fast-forward to today and it's a very different picture.
Chief business correspondent Christine Romans has a look at how far we've come -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT, ANCHOR, "EARLY START": And guys, we have come so far. It is the 10th birthday of the bull market and stocks, the longest in history. A rally born on a day when no one was celebrating -- March ninth, 2009 -- when the S&P 500 tanked to 676.
From recession to recovery, this is what it looks like. The S&P has more than quadrupled. History made all along the way.
A financial crisis that required a bank bailout, stimulus, tax cuts, an auto bailout. You had this, a new health care law. Debt ceiling showdowns, a credit downgrade of the U.S. debt, a budget sequester. And then, Democratic control giving way to a GOP hold on Congress.
And more recently, this, the Trump rally -- a 40 percent rise from Election Day, riding a wave of job creation, tax cuts, and slashed regulations. And once again, control of the House shifts back to Democrats.
The big question now -- the only question is will the bull live to see 11 years old. Already, it's showing its age.
For the year, the S&P 500 lost 6.2 percent. That was in 2018, the worst showing since the Great Recession.
And there are challenges -- many of them. You've got three big ones for this year.
Uncertainty about the global economy, particularly in Europe and China. You've got trade tensions between the U.S. and China. Those have yet to be resolved. And, investors are worried about interest rates.
[07:45:00] And then there is this dubious milestone. Ten years into the recovery, debt and deficits are swelling. The Treasury Department says the budget deficit soared 77 percent in the first four months of the fiscal year.
And, John, there are all those trade deficits, too. Huge trade deficits, even as the president -- Mr. tariff man -- has been putting tariffs on. Those tariffs are making U.S. goods more expensive overseas. So watch this space.
BERMAN: Christine Romans, that was fascinating to walk down memory lane.
CAMEROTA: We were gripped.
ROMANS: Ten years of your life in one minute.
BERMAN: And that's extraordinary. And really important new numbers out as well that you're pointing out.
All right. Chinese tech giant Huawei is suing the U.S. government, accusing Congress of acting as judge, jury, and executioner when it banned federal agencies from buying its products. Huawei's deputy chair calls the ban unlawful and says it restricts Huawei from engaging in fair competition, ultimately harming U.S. consumers. China calls Huawei's lawsuit entirely appropriate and understandable. U.S. government officials have yet to comment.
CAMEROTA: All right.
Authorities in Venezuela releasing an American journalist they detained after raiding his home in Caracas. According to Cody Weddle's mother, he is now on his way to Miami. The freelance reporter had not been heard from since Wednesday morning when he and his assistant were detained by Venezuela's counterintelligence service.
BERMAN: The Democratic National Committee has refused to let Fox News host any 2020 primary debates citing the network's close ties to President Trump. DNC chair Tom Perez says in a statement, "Fox News is not in a position to host a fair and neutral debate for our candidates."
President Trump responding with a threat to do the same with other networks during the general election.
CAMEROTA: All right, you have to see this heart-stopping video. It captures the moment that a truck clips a utility worker who was working on a traffic light. This happened last month in the Houston area.
BERMAN: Oh my God.
CAMEROTA: Oh my gosh. The driver who captured the incident on dash cam says the 50 mile per hour impact left the worker dangling in his safety harness for about 30 seconds. Oh my gosh. A bus barely missed him then before he was brought down.
The driver said the crew should have blocked off the street. But luckily, the worker had his helmet on and was strapped in. He's defying gravity there in the upside-down still shot.
BERMAN: I will say the safety harness and the helmet there -- an advertisement for both of those.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
BERMAN: Wow.
CAMEROTA: We should wear those every day.
BERMAN: Yes, no question about that.
CAMEROTA: Just to be safe, you know.
BERMAN: All right.
The comics taking on President Trump -- the comic are taking on President Trump's week. Here are you late-night laughs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, CBS, "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": According to a poll that came out yesterday, 64 percent of Americans thought Trump had committed crimes before he became president, including 33 percent of Republicans. And yet, his approval rating with Republicans is 82 percent.
Police, police, he just stole my wallet. Stop that man. I want to vote for him.
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, ABC "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE!": Without security clearance how will Ivanka be expected to do whatever the hell it is she does all day?
But can you imagine being John Kelly in this situation and being asked to grant the president's daughter and son-in-law top-level security clearance? Hey, president -- Mr. President, with all due respect, we didn't even want to give that security clearance to you.
JAMES CORDEN, HOST, CBS "THE LATE LATE SHOW WITH JAMES CORDEN": Donald Trump referred to Apple CEO Tim Cook as -- well, see for yourself.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You've really put a big investment in our country and we appreciate it very much, Tim Apple.
CORDEN: I think I'm done. I think that's it. I think I'm out. I mean, that's it.
I don't -- he called Tim Cook Tim Apple. And I guarantee you this means that Trump calls himself Donald President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Sometimes they right themselves.
BERMAN: And, Tim Cook just sat there. What can you do?
CAMEROTA: What can you do?
BERMAN: What can you do?
CAMEROTA: All right.
Buckingham Palace is dealing with something it has never had to face before -- racism. Online trolls making disgusting remarks about Meghan Markle. What CNN found when it looked into the Twitter hate, next.
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[07:52:42] CAMEROTA: The Royal Family is cracking down on unprecedented sexist and racist abuse online aimed at Meghan Markle. It, of course, is supposed to be a happy time for them as Markle and Prince Harry get ready to welcome their first baby.
So, CNN's Max Foster is live in London with more. What is this disgusting stuff, Max?
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, this abuse has been building for a while but it does appear to have come to a head for the Royal Family and, in particular, the Duchess of Sussex.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER (voice-over): One of the most talked about women of our time, a fashion icon --
MEGHAN MARKLE, DUCHESS OF SUSSEX: The winner this evening is Clare Waight Keller.
FOSTER: -- and role model, earning her this homage from pop royalty.
The Duchess of Sussex bringing something completely new to the very top of the British establishment. Yet, from the moment their relationship became public, Prince Harry and former American actress Meghan Markle detected racial and sexist undertones in parts of the press.
There were the references to the Duchess's rich and exotic DNA. How her family had gone from cotton slaves to royalty. And this piece suggesting the Los Angeles native was almost 'straight outta Compton', a reference to a song by NWA.
The authors of these stories deny racism but the couple saw underlying prejudice, which they articulated with this palace statement from 2016 calling out "the racial undertones of comment pieces and the outright sexism and racism of social media trolls and web article comments."
A typical example is the ongoing narrative that the Duchess of Sussex is at war with her sister-in-law, the Duchess of Cambridge. This is based on just one report in a respected newspaper that Meghan made Kate cry at a bridesmaid dress fitting just before last year's wedding. And even that story is disputed by the palace.
The two women have endured constant comparisons.
YOMI ADEGOKE, JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR: Essentially, Kate is no deviation of the norm. She's very much the quintessential or British girl next door.
FOSTER: Where Kate's now celebrated for wearing an off-the-shoulder dress, Meghan is accused of breaking royal protocol.
[07:55:02] When Meghan wears dark nail polish she breaks royal protocol again with "vulgar fashion move."
The comparisons are as awkward for Kate as they are for Meghan.
ADEGOKE: She's very much what you envision when you think of the word princess. And, you know, frankly, she's white.
Where someone like Meghan is very much a deviation. She's foreign, not just be being American but she's got black heritage. She's a divorcee. She's just a very different type of person and somebody that I don't think your average British member of the public sort of thinks of when they think of the word duchess or Royal Family at all.
FOSTER: A CNN royal source accepts the duchesses aren't best friends. They may not hang out or call each other but they are friendly and they text.
Stories about a rift are just clickbait, the source adds. But it's that clickbait that online trolls are linking to and using against Meghan.
On Twitter, we investigated the most commonly used anti-Meghan hashtags from the beginning of January to the middle of February. In total, we analyzed 5,204 tweets and discovered 20 accounts were behind 70 percent of the posts. Their profile descriptions typically contain Meghan-related hashtags like "megxit" but also political hashtags such as "BREXIT" and "MAGA" -- Make America Great Again.
We don't know how many people are behind the accounts and we found no evidence of a coordinated right-wing campaign against the duchess. But --
PATRIK HERMANSSON, RESEARCHER, HOPE NOT HATE: Meghan Markle fits into this bigger idea of the West and the U.K. in decline. And here, it's symbolized by Meghan who kind of corrupts this old institution of the Buckingham Palace.
FOSTER: CNN has been told the trolling escalated when the duchess announced her pregnancy. That was at the beginning of the high- profile tour of Australia. The palace were having to spend more time deleting comments on their social media platforms. Also, blocking accounts and reporting abuses.
ADEGOKE: There's definitely sort of an unspoken sort of interest in what the baby will look like. You know, there's been a lot of talk on Twitter not just from racists but also from people who are very pro- Meghan about recessive genes, about whether the baby will have an afro, whether the baby will have its mother's nose. There's all these kind of coded conversations happening about what the baby will look like.
And it sounds sort of really horrible to think, but a lot of people have sort of offered up the idea that the blacker the baby looks, the worse its treatment will be.
FOSTER: Our royal source tells us they even had to pre-block the "n" word on Instagram -- plus, emojis of knives and guns.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Alisyn, you and I covered the wedding last year. It was celebrated, wasn't it, as this moment to unite the United Kingdom, to cement the American alliance.
But it has also exposed divisions and it's those divisions that these trolls are trying to exploit and spread their hate, and I think the family has just had enough.
CAMEROTA: Max, that was such a wonderful weekend. I mean, it was so sort of sun-kissed and it was just the perfect weekend. And the idea that as they welcome this baby they're having to deal with this.
You know, we have seen here that often, online hate can escalate to actual violence. So how concerned is the palace?
FOSTER: Well, I think when people often talk about media harassment and the Royal Family they think of Diana.
But I can tell you that at the forefront of palace minds right now is a case from last year where there was a social media post showing Prince Harry and calling for him to be shot because he was a race traitor for marrying Meghan Markle.
The case is ongoing. We can't say too much about it. But what I can tell you is at the center of that case is a U.K. group associated with a neo-Nazi-American group.
The concern is that as there's more of this trolling there'll be more of these violent threats. So that trolling has to be stopped somehow and God forbid that any of these threats are followed through.
CAMEROTA: Absolutely, Max. Thanks so much for bringing it to our attention.
All right. Back here, Michael Cohen under scrutiny for what he has told Congress under oath. Senator Susan Collins is going to join us live in moments, and NEW DAY continues right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: He has provided additional documents and the members found it an enormously productive session.
COHEN: There were several changes made, including the message of the length of time that the Trump Tower Moscow project remained alive.
REP. MARK MEADOWS (R), NORTH CAROLINA: Everything that Mr. Cohen says, you have to look through the prism of is he telling us the truth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There will be a vote. And there's no place in this world for anti-Semitism.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to make sure that we don't allow Republicans and others to divide us as a caucus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is legitimating anti-Semitism in America. But at the same time, I'm afraid that the Democrats are giving up the moral high ground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman. BERMAN: Good morning and welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, March seventh, 8:00 in the East.
And new this morning, two big questions. One, did Michael Cohen lie to Congress. And two, how deep was the dangle?
END
