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Investigators Have Recovered The Ethiopian Airline Black Box That Crashed; All 157 Passengers On Board Were Killed, Including Eight Americans; Congressman Himes Tells CNN That Fox Is A Propaganda Arm For The White House. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired March 11, 2019 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEW DAY HOST: Good morning, everyone, welcome to your New Day. We do begin with breaking news because Ethiopian Airlines says that investigators have just recovered both black boxes, meaning the voice and data recorder form the crash site to try to figure out what happened. Boeing faces a lot of safety questions this morning because this is the second crash in just five months involving their best selling passenger jet. Some airlines are now grounding the 737 MAX 8 after Sunday's crash. All 157 people on board were killed, including eight Americans.

BERMAN: Now the question is will U.S. carriers follow suit? Major U.S. carriers use this new aircraft. Hundreds are in service, thousands are in order, and there are calls this morning to ground all of them. CNN is the only network live at the crash site in Ethiopia. Our David McKenzie joins us now with the breaking details and the efforts going on right behind you, Dave.

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, John. Good morning. Just a short time ago we had those flight data recorders, the voice recorders taken out of the impact crate behind me. They would have dug it - dug it out with one of these large diggers, and then they rushed it off the scene into a truck that was waiting to take that. That will be a critical moment because they might now get the sense of what exactly happened when this brand new Boeing 737 800 plowed into this hillside behind me, killing all of those passengers tragically on board, and there have been terrible scenes here. Red Cross officials have been gently taking private belongings of people, placing it in a corner, and you just see the impact. The plane was ripped apart. There are even bits and pieces sitting behind me that are only maybe an inch big, metal just torn apart. U.S. ambassador spoke to us just a short time ago. He said that investigators from America arriving tomorrow morning. Interpol will be leading the grim task of identifying the bodies in conjunction with Ethiopian and Kenyan officials, but the question is why.

CAMEROTA: And David, what has Boeing said about all of this? David, can you hear us? I think we've lost contact. BERMAN: All right, we lost David McKenzie there, but it's remarkable to see the efforts behind him this morning. That recovery effort not only for closure for the families, but also key with this investigation. And Boeing, as David would note, Boeing has had issues with this aircraft before, put out a statement that Boeing is deeply saddened to learn of the passing of the passengers and crew on Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302, a 737 MAX 8 aircraft. They also say to the families and loved ones of the passengers and crew on board, they stand ready to support the Ethiopian Airlines team.

CAMEROTA: All right, we need to know much more about this, so joining us now is the former inspector general at the U.S. Department of Transportation and CNN Transportation Analyst, Mary Schiavo. Mary, nice to see you this morning. You've called this crash highly suspicious. What do you think happened from what - what you have heard?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: Well, given the face of flight where the plane was, the air speed, at least the air speed that's been indicated on various flight radar reporting sites, but of course it looks like the air speed indicators were unreliable at the time and the - and the speed at which the plane experienced a difficulty, where it was that they had a mechanical difficulty on board and were turning back, it looks very, very similar, and of course the same exact model of a plan in two crashes of a brand new model of aircraft within six months. It's just unheard of. In history what usually happens when you introduce new airplane is you have hiccups, small hiccups like the 787 had with the batteries, but you don't lose - have two whole losses and fatalities like this with a new place. The safety statistics are supposed to improve with new models, not deteriorate. So it's highly, highly troublesome.

CAMEROTA: And it's also very haunting when you remember the details of the Lion Air crash five months ago. Just explain to us in layman's terms basically there was an automated system that the pilots on that flight couldn't override or didn't know that they could override manually. What went wrong there?

SCHIAVO: What went wrong on the Lion Air crash is they had a discrepancy in their instruments. In that case, it was something called the angle of the tach indicator. That's - you know, to put it in layman's term how your nose is pointed with regard with the horizon - up, down - to put it in simple terms. And when they had this discrepancy, they were starting to troubleshoot, but the plane itself - and this at that time was unknown to the pilots - the plane itself was trained to - was computer programmed to put the nose down, and that was called MCAS, the system.

[07:05:00]

SCHIAVO: And they did that because when they did the MAX 8, Boeing put on newer, heavier, more efficient engines, more thrust, and that changed what's called the center of gravity on the plane. And so, they had to put this system in to put the nose down. They thought it was an additional measure for safety on the plane, but pilots said they did not know about it. So that was Lion Air. Here it's very similar except some things aren't lining up. For example, there wasn't this purposing effect of the aircraft. As the Lion Air pilots fought the plane, the nose went up and down. Here at the very end, the plane pitched up dramatically. Looks like an aerodynamic stall, and then plunged into the Earth. And there's an eye witness report of smoke emanating from the plane. That didn't happen on Lion Air.

CAMEROTA: So now these two recorders, the two black boxes have been found, the voice and the data. So when will we have answers about what happened?

SCHIAVO: Oh, as soon as the - the NTSB - the Untied States National Transportation Safety Board - is there. They have one of the best black box labs in the world. They have all the equipment to do this. As soon as they can get those black boxes, get them secured, make sure that the housing hasn't been breached the data hasn't been lost - it was a very intense fire. You might recall the black boxes in the World Trade Center plane were destroyed in the fire. So they get that data unloaded. They will know from the cockpit voice recorder as soon as they hear it what was going on, and then the flight data recorder on this plane has approximately 1,000 perimeters of data, different data feeds from the plane. They will know by the end of the week what happened I think.

CAMEROTA: OK, so since we'll have answers in a relatively short time, should American Airlines, United Airlines, Southwest Airlines, the carriers here that use the 737 MAX 8 or Boeing ground this airliner until that happens?

SCHIAVO: Well, I think they should just as a matter of common sense. There are huge questions about this plane. There are already just the website are just exploding telling passengers how to check to see if their plane is one of the these planes and how to get off of them. So I think they need to get a handle on this, both the airlines and Boeing, and frankly if I was at Boeing I would step forward and do it because remember, if and airline or a manufacturer, if an operator takes the lead on this would be literally a revoking of the air word (ph) in this certificate, but if the manufacturer takes the lead and controls it, then they have more control about what happens to their certificate. Chances are it wouldn't get revoked and they'd have to reapply to the FAA. So by getting on top of it, they're way ahead. And it could turn out to be something entirely different, but with two mechanical problems the pilots have already said they had a problem with the equipment. Boeing's on the hook either way. So they should get ahead of it and do it.

CAMEROTA: We will see if they take your suggestion today. Mary Schiavo, thank you very much for all the expertise as always.

BERMAN: You know, and if you're wondering, American, United, and Southwest all use this new aircraft. There are dozens of service in the United States at this moment, so it does have very real domestic implications.

CAMEROTA: And I mean, as she's saying, people are already - as you can understand - on the websites trying to figure out if their next flight is one of these 737 MAX 8s. BERMAN: All right, this morning, the new battle in Washington, it's a familiar one. President Trump will ask Congress today for $8.6 billion for a proposed wall along the Mexican border. Now, if this sounds familiar, he shut the government down over a fight with a request for much less money. Joining us now is Seung Min Kim, White House reporter for The Washington Post, Margaret Talev, Senior White House Correspondent for Bloomberg News, and CNN Political Analyst, David Gregory.

Seung Min, is this and issue of, A, the president wanting the money, B, the president wanting a fight, or C, all of the above?

SEUNG MIN KIM, THE WASHINGTON POST WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: It is always C, all of the above, in this case particularly with that border wall. And look, the president has despite this brutal - despite the brutal 35 day partial government shutdown that we and Washington went through earlier this year over his border wall, the president's clearly itching for another fight again. Now, he's asking for about $5 billion from - $5 billion from Congress for the wall in the DHS, but in the Homeland Security budget and about $3.6 billion for actually from the Pentagon budget for military construction that would actually go towards that wall, and that $8.6 billion figure mirrors actually the amount of money that he's trying to tap through various venues including his national emergency declaration earlier this year - last month. But it really - but this is all - you know, the border wall was a major part of his campaign promise, and this shows that this is going to be a theme that he continues to just - just to hammer through the - through his reelection campaign. However, this time now that democrats are in control really - really matters less what the president is asking for. You know, when House republicans were in charge, they could take the number that was requested by the president and put it in their own budget and make it a fight, but democrats have already said they are not even willing to entertain what the president is proposing right now.

CAMEROTA: Right. So what's the point, Margaret? I mean, this is a nonstarter with Congress. They've already rejected this number, so why are we going through this exercise?

[07:10:00]

TALEV: You may have heard of something coming up, it's called the 2020 election, and so we're beginning to see some strains in that obviously play out. The budget's always a political document as much as it is an actual planning document.

But you really see some of those themes that are going to be prevalent now in 2020, a continued fight about the wall, a continued clash with democrats that exist by design. An interesting kind of sub theme to the budget document is the idea of deficits and deficit spending.

There are a lot of Republicans, there certainly used to be a lot including the president's chief of staff who are against deficit spending. But in part because of the tax cuts for corporate and individual tax cuts that were part of the administration's own reform package, you're seeing it's going to take a while and some domestic cuts to sort of break even if you will.

But, you know, I really think 2020 is a pretty dominant theme here in the way things are shaping up. The president is looking forward to clashes with some of the most prominent names in the Democratic Party, and he'll get them with this budget.

BERMAN: $2.7 billion in spending cuts we understand part of this proposal, David Gregory. Trillion - sorry, trillion in spending cuts. I have a hard time believing, though, there is this deep concern about deficits in this White House based on what I've seen the last two years.

GREGORY: Right, and I think that's actually become a more bipartisan conclusion that as Dick Cheney said as vice president that Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We see the political class increasingly behaving like that's actually the case.

But the president is opening himself up to the claims of hypocrisy by a lot of conservatives who've spent the last decade saying that deficits do matter and that there was a debt crisis coming.

I mean they - they project in this administration enough economic growth to somehow lift all boats, but it's not going to escape that hypocrisy argument. And the larger point about border security that has to be remembered is this president was serious about getting money for the wall.

He had it on the table, he had a much bigger immigration deal that was possible, he didn't want it and now he's saying two things at once. He's saying, you know, to Ann Coulter he's saying, you know, parts of this wall are already being built, I've made good on my promise, while he's trying to force through the rest of it for a very narrow argument, which is not even about the wall, it's about beware of illegal immigrants coming into our country.

They should scare you, you should be very, very worried, that's what his very narrow appeal will be in 2020 just like it was in 2016.

CAMEROTA: I mean and Seung Min of course this also calls for cuts, and I think a five percent across the board or at least cuts to education, health, environmental protections, will he be penalized for wanting to do that?

Are there parts of the base who think that those things are important to them?

KIM: But you could also look at what the president is trying to do with his budget too, because he's actually trying to increase the military - the defense spending budget as well.

We're at $716 billion now, he wants to raise that to $750 billion in the next fiscal year. And that is something that he has promised a lot and touted a lot on the campaign trail, how much more money the military is getting.

It was actually almost about a year ago when he looked like he wasn't going to sign the spending bill that time over disputes over the wall. Republicans were actually able to persuade him to sign it because of that major spending increase for the military.

So this really is a blueprint in terms of his priorities coming to the 2020 election, the problem for him is it's only really a vision that's not really going anywhere in reality.

BERMAN: So Margaret, let's talk about 2020, because the Democratic field (ph), a new CNN poll came out this weekend among Iowa voters, obviously Iowa, you know, has the first caucuses, and in Iowa Joe Biden is in the lead.

He's at 27 percent, Bernie Sanders at 25 percent, Elizabeth Warren at nine percent, Kamala Harris at seven percent. When you look at this, Biden, you know, people have said his numbers are inflated because of name recognition, but it's been inflated for a long time now.

TALEV: Yes, you know, it's - it's pretty breathtaking that you're looking at the - kind of the two of the older both in terms of how long we've known about them and how old they actually are gentlemen in Democratic politics dominating like right around that 50 percent threshold.

But it really is still name recognition at this point, and in terms of where the energy is in terms of where voters are, I think both of those guys, both Biden and Sanders know it's really too soon to sort of hang your hat on that.

On the other hand, if you're looking for maybe sort of a tipping point reason to decide when you're going to get in or how you're going to get in or if you're going to get in, maybe 27 percent is that.

But, you know, I think the decline of Beto O'Rourke is potentially interesting in those early poll findings and I think whether Harris' number is sort of undercounted there in terms of the sort of motivation and energy you hear throughout Democratic politics is also going to be interesting to watch in the next few weeks.

[07:15:00]

CAMEROTA: Another - yes, go ahead, David.

GREGORY: I - well I just think (inaudible) a couple things. One, you see one of the rationales for Biden will have several dimensions to it, right, name recognition, the fact that people can close their eyes and imagine him as president, they've seen him as vice president, he's run for president before.

They can see all the attributes kind of restoring America on the world stage, you know, being a leader that can bring the party together. But there's also older caucus goers in that poll in Iowa who were gravitating toward him, ironically younger caucus goers in Iowa gravitating toward Bernie Sanders.

Again, Sanders occupying what is a known lane for him, which is younger, more progressive voters, and now he's going to have a lot more competition in that space. Biden still stands apart with all of his strengths and weaknesses that make him kind of an old Democrat.

But he's reaping the benefit of that and kind of being alone in that lane as the older establishment Democrat right now who's run before and has all this experience. He - you know, on day one, even before day one, he takes all that oxygen out of the room, and that's going to be a lot of information to the rest of the field.

CAMEROTA: Seung Min, on the Republican side, there was a question posed to registered Republicans about whether they would like to see - should a Republican challenger challenge President Trump.

Forty percent said yes, 41 percent said no, so they were split. But in other polls, they - a majority still say that they will vote for President Trump and he still has very high support among Republicans.

So I can't tell if that's just for the entertainment factor they - why they would want somebody to run against him.

KIM: Well I would imagine that Maryland Governor Larry Hogan might be looking at those poll numbers pretty carefully right now. We know that he's kind of distanced himself from the national - he's openly entertained the prospect of - or he hasn't ruled out a challenge against him.

But I do think you're starting to see the president's reelection message really come into sharp focus here because we've seen it'll - the message will be very similar to the - kind of this nationalist America first message of 2016 and also what he tried to bring in during the 2018 mid term campaign.

But we're starting to see that pair up with kind of the logistical side of things, we know - we're reporting last night that the president does have, paired with the Republican National Committee, a very sophisticated digital apparatus ready to go.

So - and while he - while the - while the campaign side gears up on that end, you see the president driving his message over and over, particularly at the Conservative Political Action Conference two weekends ago, and really driving on that message that the Democratic Party has shifted leftward and it's a message that's also being reflected by House Republicans who want to win back that majority and are targeting the 23 Democratic freshman who won in Trump districts to flip the House.

BERMAN: All right friends, Seung Min, Margaret, David, thank you all very much.

CAMEROTA: All right, House Intelligence Chair - the House Intelligence chairman says it would be a mistake for Robert Mueller not to get President Trump to testify under oath before finishing the Mueller report.

Will that happen? Is it too late? We discuss it next.

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REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: Yes I think it is a mistake and I've said all along that I don't think Bob Mueller should rely on written answers. I think the constraint that Bob Mueller is operating under is, he had an acting Attorney General who was appointed because he would be hostile to a subpoena on the president and now he has a permanent Attorney General who was chose for the same hostility to his investigation who would likely oppose that step.

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CAMEROTA: That's the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Adam Schiff, calling on Special Counsel Robert Mueller to subpoena President Trump, or something like that. At least saying it would be mistake not to.

Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Jim Himes, he serves on the committee. Good morning Congressman.

REP. JIM HIMES (D), CONNECTICUT: Good morning Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Do you think it will be a mistake if the Mueller report comes out and they're never -- without any sworn testimony orally from President Trump and they've only relied on those written answers?

HIMES: Well, I think Adam is right in the sense that if the president has something to hide, just relying on witness answers or written answers I should say is a problem. And we all know, right? It's always the follow-up question where you learn the interesting information. But, here's the thing, I have no doubt that Robert Mueller, knowing the character of the man, if he thought he needed that information he would have gone for it.

He would have said, look, there's a precedent here, Bill Clinton answered questions via video tape, I guess it was a video arrangement rather than live, but it's interesting to reflect on the fact that I don't think Mueller would have simply deferred to the idea that the president doesn't want to.

So, what I infer from that is that Mueller has whatever he needs, and I should say here, I never believed for one moment that whatever it was, two or three weeks ago, that the Mueller was coming out that week.

People have been wrong about when it comes out, but I guess my point is, that, of course, if Mueller needed to talk to the president to get at the truth he should have done it orally. I don't think these written answers would do the trick, but evidently Mueller seems to think he has what he needs.

CAMEROTA: So, in that case, is that your Chairman Adam Schiff, just trying to lower expectations for what will be in it?

HIMES: No, I don't think so. I think Adam was probably just trying to answer a very narrow question, which is, if you're looking for the truth should you be able to interview somebody live. Look, none of us, including Adam, know what is in the Mueller report.

The -- as you might imagine the Special Counsel has been very careful about sharing anything with Congress other than information necessary to deconflict the various investigations going on.

So, I -- look, I've said all along here that, two things, number one, let's not prejudge what is out there.

[07:25:00]

HIMES: And number two, I've been saying for a very long time, that if the American public is expecting some massive Hollywood ending here, where Vladamir Putin showed up with video tapes and got suit cases full of cash, that's not the way the Russians operate.

The way the Russians operate is what we have seen so far in the many indictments. They send lots of people out to make lots of contact, lots of ambiguity, have meetings and do things that cause lots of people to lie, which of course has been the story of this investigation so far.

CAMEROTA: I want to ask you about the DNC decision not to hold debates on Fox. You go on Fox, you're interviewed by the folks over at Fox. Do you think that was the right decision from the DNC?

HIMES: Well, with all due respect to the DNC, no, I don't think it was right decision. Look, it's no surprise to anybody, including to Fox News watchers that Fox is largely an instrument of the right wing, of the Republican Party. It's a propaganda arm for the White House.

However, and the reason I go on Fox is that it's watched by millions and millions of Americans. And I'm a big believer that if you put our ideas, Democratic ideas, which are about universal healthcare, making it easier for kids to go to college, making retirements more secure against whatever the nonsense is on the other side, cutting taxes for corporations and very wealthy people, hey, I don't care what channel you're on, we will have the appealing ideas. So, I would have made a different decision with all due respect to the DNC.

CAMEROTA: But I mean it's interesting, Congressman, since you believe it's a propaganda arm for the White House, but you're trying to get your ideas out there and you think that you need to speak to the Fox audience, have you ever seen your interviews move the needle?

HIMES: Well, one of the secrets, not so secret secrets about television, of course, is that they say that 70 percent of the impression that is formed is formed with the volume off. And again, I think -- I think our candidates will make a far better impression with the volume off and certainly with the volume on in a general debate with President Trump.

So look, a debate is a very carefully orchestrated thing. I go on Tucker Carlson, I go on Fox and Friends, it can get uncomfortable because when they don't like where you're going, they cut you off, they go somewhere else, they throw -- they throw a lot of the nonsense out there. But a debate is a very highly structured moment, right? It is, in some sense, fair. It's not like Sean Hannity can jump in and challenge Bernie Sanders.

So again, with all due respect to the DNC, that's a huge audience. As they say, you don't need to persuade your friends, you need to persuade people who disagree with you, so I would have made a different decision.

CAMEROTA: All right, Jim Himes, we appreciate you coming on NEW DAY, we keep the volume on when you're here. Thank you very much.

HIMES: Thank you Alisyn.

BERMAN: All right, are Republicans going to back President Trump's attempt to get billions of dollars more, still more, for his border wall after Congress rejected it. We're joined by a Republican member of Congress next.

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